Date   

Re: Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser

Richard Townsend
 

By not issuing "Friends of the Freight Car" vests?


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: pullmanboss <tgmadden@worldnet.att.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 11:53 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser





Tim O'Connor wrote:

What is the Avery label material - is it plastic or sticky paper?
Does it come in a big sheet or narrow strips?
Avery #8665 (25 sheet pack) or #18665 (10 sheet pack), "Clear Full Sheet [8 1/2 x 11] Label". Runs about a buck a sheet. Got mine at the local Staples. It's not waterproof so I don't know if it's paper or plastic - see my post of last night on how I treat it. I needed transparency for aligning the four layers of overlays, but if I'd started with something simpler (and more sensible!) like a boxcar or gondola side, I'd have used conventional label stock.

I won't be at Cocoa
so I'm going to miss your clinic...
Oh no!! How will we keep the bozosity level down without you!

Tom Madden







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

What is the Avery label material - is it plastic or sticky paper?
Does it come in a big sheet or narrow strips?
Avery #8665 (25 sheet pack) or #18665 (10 sheet pack), "Clear Full Sheet [8 1/2 x 11] Label". Runs about a buck a sheet. Got mine at the local Staples. It's not waterproof so I don't know if it's paper or plastic - see my post of last night on how I treat it. I needed transparency for aligning the four layers of overlays, but if I'd started with something simpler (and more sensible!) like a boxcar or gondola side, I'd have used conventional label stock.

I won't be at Cocoa
so I'm going to miss your clinic...
Oh no!! How will we keep the bozosity level down without you!

Tom Madden


Re: Guy Wilber

water.kresse@...
 

Folks,


Has anyone heard from Guy Wilber lately?  He was in limbo between Wisconsin and somewhere out west the last time he responded to his e-mail.



Al Kresse

Romeo, Michigan



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser

Tim O'Connor
 

Tom

That's an excellent looking tank!

What is the Avery label material - is it plastic or sticky paper?
Does it come in a big sheet or narrow strips? I won't be at Cocoa
so I'm going to miss your clinic...

Tim O'Connor

At 12/21/2009 08:15 PM Monday, you wrote:
A couple of months ago I mentioned the possibility of using Avery label material to represent thin overlapping metal sheets. I'm far enough along with that to offer this "teaser" for my Prototype Rails clinic on Archer rivets:

http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/Tk-G-5.jpg

The tank and dome cores were made by rapid prototyping. They were hand-finished and overlaid with layers of Avery transparent label stock with the surface detail pattern printed on. The tank shell required four layers to get all the overlaps. The transparency made aligning the layers fairly straightforward, and the printing made locating the Archer rivets equally straightforward. The tank hold-down fittings were made by rapid prototyping, everything else on the tank surface is Archer.

See you in Cocoa Beach, everyone have a happy holiday season!

Tom Madden


Re: Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Jack Burgess wrote:

That is very impressive work and it is great to continually see new ways of
doing things. I'm sure that you will address this in your clinic but is the
final product durable enough to be used as a freight car on an operating
layout or is this intended as a master for a resin car?
Yes, it is intended as a resin casting master. Even so, I was concerned about several durability and suitability issues. There's the Archer rivets themselves. Even though they end up under paint, they're still on a base of decal film and not a part of, or bonded firmly to, the substrate. As a resin casting master that's not an issue, but on an operating layout, I suppose a derailment or rough handling bad enough to damage the paint might flake them off. They're certainly touchier than decals while you're applying and setting them, but that's a matter of technique and being aware of where your fingers are on the model. I can tell you that once set and dry, even without paint on them, they are more durable than I expected. They even survived scrubbing with a soft toothbrush, my technique for getting rid of fugitive flakes of unadhered decal film. (Figured the standard decal post-application wipe with distilled water might not be a good idea for the Archer's.)

The Avery label stock concerned me for three reasons. First, will it adhere properly, with no wrinkles or bubbles, and stay put? Second, it's not waterproof. Can I seal it so it takes water slide decals and setting solution without absorbing any liquid? Third, will it be affected by immersion in liquid silicone rubber for several hours?

For numbers 2 and 3, the results have been good. I'm still working the first one, proper and permanent adhesion. There's no evidence of poor adhesion between layers, only between the shell and the first layer. It seems to be a matter of surface preparation of the car core. On my first attempt I had all sorts of misalignment between layers, wrinkles, you name it. The car core was also shiny and smooth. Bad idea - there's no way for trapped air to get out from under the label stock as you roll it on if the substrate surface is ultra-smooth. The forgiving thing about the label stock is, if you screw up, you can just peel it all off and start over. (Goo-Gone takes off the adhesive residue.) I've done six applications so far, and applied rivets to three of them. The one in the photo was the second one with rivets and I must admit there was some delamination in the lower quadrants. Not much, but you can see it if the light is just right. My technique keeps getting better, though, and the latest one looks very promising. I rough-sanded the shell and used plenty of patience getting the Avery material in place. I let it sit for three days before sealing it with gloss acrylic, then two more days after that. Everything stayed dead-smooth, no evidence of any delamination. I applied all the rivets yesterday, and poured the first mold half last night. Just poured the second half before I started writing this post, and tomorrow (Wednesday) night we'll see if it's still good.

Tom Madden


Re: CB&Q 48 foot composite mill gons

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi Gary,

Thanks for the suggestion - I will consider it.

- Claus

-----Original Message-----
From: Gary [mailto:wabashrr@swbell.net]
Sent: Tuesday, December 22, 2009 06:03 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: CB&Q 48 foot composite mill gons



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)" <claus@...> wrote:

Hi,

Thanks everyone for your more than helpful responses - I would never have guessed that so much imformation would be coming my way!
Several folks sent me images off-list, thank you for those as they were very helpful.


Here is my admittedly meager comtribution to the topic...

A builders photo from the 1931 CBC (TSC #46) pg 215...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4198770352_3af882d03d_b.jpg

An set of images of the N-scale Micro-Trains gon in CB&Q paint...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2660/4198016869_ca287111ea_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2557/4198770700_ced97c70ab_b.jpg

Lastly, am image of the undecorated Micro-Trains shell...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2786/4198017167_0dca0ebd6f_b.jpg

The car looks pretty good rite out of the box, and the factory lettering appears to be correct. A few things need to be fixed.

* The car comes with a straight center sill, and the prototype has a fishbelly center sill. This needs to be corrected

* The car rides too high and needs to be lowered

* The car comes with a side-mounted brake wheel. While the photos I've received are not entirely conclusive, it appears these cars
had (I'm not sure I've for the terminology right) lever brakes, much like those on the as-delivered USRA composite gons. This will
need to be changed as well

* The car comes with dreadnaught drop ends, and they should be 5-rib inverse Murphy. Not sure how to correct this...

* The two end panels in the Micro-Trains model are slightly longer then the rest of the panels, and the prototype was just the
opposite. I'm not going to make any effort to correct this. Oh well!

Thanks again everyone, I've got some fun work to do.

- Claus Schlund

Claus,

Please consider writing an article on your conversion and sending it to "N Scale Railroading" magazine.

gary roe
quincy, illinois



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




Re: Holiday Greetings

railwayman <stevelucas3@...>
 

Oh, and by the way, for years I'd thought that Sir Sandford Fleming had invented "standard time". ;)

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Viv Brice" <viv.brice@...> wrote:

Right on, Tim.
Happy holidays from Down Under
Viv Brice

_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, 22 December 2009 4:36 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Holiday Greetings




Harruumph!

I protest against this hemispherical chauvinism! For some freight
cars in this world, Dec 21st is the LONGEST day of the year.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/21/2009 05:30 PM Monday, you wrote:
Joe, the first day of spring is the vernal equinox, when the day and
night are each 12 hours. December 21st is the winter solstice, the
shortest day of the year. This is of course all relevant to steam era
freight cars because it was the railroads that invented "standard time"
<G>. Otherwise time, and therefore length of day, was determined at
each location...

So a joyous solstice to all of you out there and especially you
druids...

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Holiday Greetings

John Riddell <jriddell@...>
 

Charlie,

Wasn't Sandford Fleming the inventor of standard time, rather than the
railroads ?
The railroads simply adopted his invention (- to facilitate better freight
car usage - STMFC content.)

http://inventors.about.com/od/fstartinventors/a/SandfordFleming.htm

John Riddell


Re: Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser

Jack Burgess
 

Tom...

That is very impressive work and it is great to continually see new ways of
doing things. I'm sure that you will address this in your clinic but is the
final product durable enough to be used as a freight car on an operating
layout or is this intended as a master for a resin car?

Looking forward to your clinic...


Re: CB&Q 48 foot composite mill gons

Gary Roe
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Claus Schlund &#92;(HGM&#92;)" <claus@...> wrote:

Hi,

Thanks everyone for your more than helpful responses - I would never have guessed that so much imformation would be coming my way!
Several folks sent me images off-list, thank you for those as they were very helpful.


Here is my admittedly meager comtribution to the topic...

A builders photo from the 1931 CBC (TSC #46) pg 215...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4043/4198770352_3af882d03d_b.jpg

An set of images of the N-scale Micro-Trains gon in CB&Q paint...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2660/4198016869_ca287111ea_b.jpg
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2557/4198770700_ced97c70ab_b.jpg

Lastly, am image of the undecorated Micro-Trains shell...

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2786/4198017167_0dca0ebd6f_b.jpg

The car looks pretty good rite out of the box, and the factory lettering appears to be correct. A few things need to be fixed.

* The car comes with a straight center sill, and the prototype has a fishbelly center sill. This needs to be corrected

* The car rides too high and needs to be lowered

* The car comes with a side-mounted brake wheel. While the photos I've received are not entirely conclusive, it appears these cars
had (I'm not sure I've for the terminology right) lever brakes, much like those on the as-delivered USRA composite gons. This will
need to be changed as well

* The car comes with dreadnaught drop ends, and they should be 5-rib inverse Murphy. Not sure how to correct this...

* The two end panels in the Micro-Trains model are slightly longer then the rest of the panels, and the prototype was just the
opposite. I'm not going to make any effort to correct this. Oh well!

Thanks again everyone, I've got some fun work to do.

- Claus Schlund

Claus,

Please consider writing an article on your conversion and sending it to "N Scale Railroading" magazine.

gary roe
quincy, illinois


CNWHS Modeler

ron christensen
 

The CNWHS Modeler is finally on the web site. Here is a link to it.
We are still looking for an editor and others to proof read and write articles.
http://www.cnwhs.org/modeling.htm
Merry Christmas to all.
Ron Christensen


Re: Holiday Greetings

Viv Brice
 

Right on, Tim.
Happy holidays from Down Under
Viv Brice

_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, 22 December 2009 4:36 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Holiday Greetings




Harruumph!

I protest against this hemispherical chauvinism! For some freight
cars in this world, Dec 21st is the LONGEST day of the year.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/21/2009 05:30 PM Monday, you wrote:
Joe, the first day of spring is the vernal equinox, when the day and
night are each 12 hours. December 21st is the winter solstice, the
shortest day of the year. This is of course all relevant to steam era
freight cars because it was the railroads that invented "standard time"
<G>. Otherwise time, and therefore length of day, was determined at
each location...

So a joyous solstice to all of you out there and especially you
druids...

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Holiday Greetings

Tim O'Connor
 

Harruumph!

I protest against this hemispherical chauvinism! For some freight
cars in this world, Dec 21st is the LONGEST day of the year.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/21/2009 05:30 PM Monday, you wrote:
Joe, the first day of spring is the vernal equinox, when the day and
night are each 12 hours. December 21st is the winter solstice, the
shortest day of the year. This is of course all relevant to steam era
freight cars because it was the railroads that invented "standard time"
<G>. Otherwise time, and therefore length of day, was determined at
each location...

So a joyous solstice to all of you out there and especially you
druids...

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: NKP 765

Ray Breyer
 

I realize this is not a freight car
but am wondering if the Nickle Plate Road assigned there
steam like my favorite, B&O.
Plan on having steam era freights of roads which crossed
the Newark Division! NKP, Erie, AC&Y, NYC and PRR.
Mark Morgan

Hi Mark,

Short answer, yes.

Longer answer: which engines got assigned to which division depends on lots of different variables, including the year and division you're talking about, the traffic density, when bridges were rebuilt, how the march of dieselization affected the steam fleet, etc.

For more information, you might want to bring this question over to one of the NKP lists, so we don't bore everyone here!

Regards,
Ray Breyer


Re: Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser

Brian Carlson
 

Tom: WOW!!!! Can you do this clinic again, I have to miss cocoa this year.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
pullmanboss
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 8:16 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser





A couple of months ago I mentioned the possibility of using Avery label
material to represent thin overlapping metal sheets. I'm far enough along
with that to offer this "teaser" for my Prototype Rails clinic on Archer
rivets:

http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/Tk-G-5.jpg


NKP 765

Mark
 

I realize this is not a freight car but am wondering if the Nickle Plate Road assigned there steam like my favorite, B&O.
Plan on having steam era freights of roads which crossed the Newark Division! NKP, Erie, AC&Y, NYC and PRR.

Mark Morgan


roping staples

Mark
 

After receiving the answers on NYC 703B I searched the messages and found some ideas on making the roping staples.

Mark Morgan


Re: Gondola question

roblmclear <rob.mclear2@...>
 

Thanks Richard

I model 1947-1949 so I will go with the white on one car and yellow on the other to match the Intermountain car that I already have. As for the decals I wasn't expecting to find any. I will just have to make them up from other sets. I can stick with the composite sides as I don't thing they were "steeled" until early '51.

Thanks again Richard and to all on the list Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Rob.


Rob, the lettering was white when the cars were new. UP lettering
did not change to yellow until mid-1947, and many cars survived with
white lettering for a long time after that. Champ made decal sets in
HO specifically for this car in both white and yellow, but I don't
know what (if anything) is available in N scale.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Spencer Kellog & Sons SKX tank cars.

FRANK PEACOCK
 

Dr. Anspach, Spencer Kellog & Sons was Incorporated in NY in Aug. 1912 ( partnership established 1894). " Manufactures and deals in vegetable oils. Crushes flaxseed, castor beans, soy beans, copra, obtaining respectively linseed, castor, soy bean and coconut oils." Has refineries at Buffalo, Edgewater, NJ, Minneapolis, Long Beach, Decatur, IL, Chicago, Bellevue, Ohio. No mention of tank cars in the short article. Ref. 1949 Moody's Industrials, p. 278. FHP (Frank H. Peacock)

To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: danspach@macnexus.org
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:56:24 -0800
Subject: [STMFC] Spencer Kellog & Sons SKX tank cars.




























I am working on a SC&F cast resin Standard Car Co. 6 course tank car

to be lettered for the Spencer Kellogg & Sons vegetable oil refiners

in Buffalo. Can anyone tell me about this company? My relevant

ORERS, 1926, 1943, 1952, 1958 apparently do not list this company,

nor its SKX reporting marks. I thus presume that this company must

have existed during the 1930s- or .....?.



The only dates that I can read on the ultra fine decals enclosed in

the kit are a build date of 1920, and some repack/reweigh dates in the

1950s. I cannot read the dates on the tank car photo.



Does anyone know whether or not Spencer Kellogg had any other tank

cars besides #231?



Thank you



Denny



Denny S. Anspach MD

Sacramento


















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Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

A couple of months ago I mentioned the possibility of using Avery label material to represent thin overlapping metal sheets. I'm far enough along with that to offer this "teaser" for my Prototype Rails clinic on Archer rivets:

http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/Tk-G-5.jpg

The tank and dome cores were made by rapid prototyping. They were hand-finished and overlaid with layers of Avery transparent label stock with the surface detail pattern printed on. The tank shell required four layers to get all the overlaps. The transparency made aligning the layers fairly straightforward, and the printing made locating the Archer rivets equally straightforward. The tank hold-down fittings were made by rapid prototyping, everything else on the tank surface is Archer.

See you in Cocoa Beach, everyone have a happy holiday season!

Tom Madden

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