Date   

Re: Holiday Greetings

Viv Brice
 

Right on, Tim.
Happy holidays from Down Under
Viv Brice

_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Tuesday, 22 December 2009 4:36 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Holiday Greetings




Harruumph!

I protest against this hemispherical chauvinism! For some freight
cars in this world, Dec 21st is the LONGEST day of the year.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/21/2009 05:30 PM Monday, you wrote:
Joe, the first day of spring is the vernal equinox, when the day and
night are each 12 hours. December 21st is the winter solstice, the
shortest day of the year. This is of course all relevant to steam era
freight cars because it was the railroads that invented "standard time"
<G>. Otherwise time, and therefore length of day, was determined at
each location...

So a joyous solstice to all of you out there and especially you
druids...

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Holiday Greetings

Tim O'Connor
 

Harruumph!

I protest against this hemispherical chauvinism! For some freight
cars in this world, Dec 21st is the LONGEST day of the year.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/21/2009 05:30 PM Monday, you wrote:
Joe, the first day of spring is the vernal equinox, when the day and
night are each 12 hours. December 21st is the winter solstice, the
shortest day of the year. This is of course all relevant to steam era
freight cars because it was the railroads that invented "standard time"
<G>. Otherwise time, and therefore length of day, was determined at
each location...

So a joyous solstice to all of you out there and especially you
druids...

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: NKP 765

Ray Breyer
 

I realize this is not a freight car
but am wondering if the Nickle Plate Road assigned there
steam like my favorite, B&O.
Plan on having steam era freights of roads which crossed
the Newark Division! NKP, Erie, AC&Y, NYC and PRR.
Mark Morgan

Hi Mark,

Short answer, yes.

Longer answer: which engines got assigned to which division depends on lots of different variables, including the year and division you're talking about, the traffic density, when bridges were rebuilt, how the march of dieselization affected the steam fleet, etc.

For more information, you might want to bring this question over to one of the NKP lists, so we don't bore everyone here!

Regards,
Ray Breyer


Re: Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser

Brian Carlson
 

Tom: WOW!!!! Can you do this clinic again, I have to miss cocoa this year.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
pullmanboss
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 8:16 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser





A couple of months ago I mentioned the possibility of using Avery label
material to represent thin overlapping metal sheets. I'm far enough along
with that to offer this "teaser" for my Prototype Rails clinic on Archer
rivets:

http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/Tk-G-5.jpg


NKP 765

Mark
 

I realize this is not a freight car but am wondering if the Nickle Plate Road assigned there steam like my favorite, B&O.
Plan on having steam era freights of roads which crossed the Newark Division! NKP, Erie, AC&Y, NYC and PRR.

Mark Morgan


roping staples

Mark
 

After receiving the answers on NYC 703B I searched the messages and found some ideas on making the roping staples.

Mark Morgan


Re: Gondola question

roblmclear <rob.mclear2@...>
 

Thanks Richard

I model 1947-1949 so I will go with the white on one car and yellow on the other to match the Intermountain car that I already have. As for the decals I wasn't expecting to find any. I will just have to make them up from other sets. I can stick with the composite sides as I don't thing they were "steeled" until early '51.

Thanks again Richard and to all on the list Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.

Rob.


Rob, the lettering was white when the cars were new. UP lettering
did not change to yellow until mid-1947, and many cars survived with
white lettering for a long time after that. Champ made decal sets in
HO specifically for this car in both white and yellow, but I don't
know what (if anything) is available in N scale.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Spencer Kellog & Sons SKX tank cars.

FRANK PEACOCK
 

Dr. Anspach, Spencer Kellog & Sons was Incorporated in NY in Aug. 1912 ( partnership established 1894). " Manufactures and deals in vegetable oils. Crushes flaxseed, castor beans, soy beans, copra, obtaining respectively linseed, castor, soy bean and coconut oils." Has refineries at Buffalo, Edgewater, NJ, Minneapolis, Long Beach, Decatur, IL, Chicago, Bellevue, Ohio. No mention of tank cars in the short article. Ref. 1949 Moody's Industrials, p. 278. FHP (Frank H. Peacock)

To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: danspach@macnexus.org
Date: Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:56:24 -0800
Subject: [STMFC] Spencer Kellog & Sons SKX tank cars.




























I am working on a SC&F cast resin Standard Car Co. 6 course tank car

to be lettered for the Spencer Kellogg & Sons vegetable oil refiners

in Buffalo. Can anyone tell me about this company? My relevant

ORERS, 1926, 1943, 1952, 1958 apparently do not list this company,

nor its SKX reporting marks. I thus presume that this company must

have existed during the 1930s- or .....?.



The only dates that I can read on the ultra fine decals enclosed in

the kit are a build date of 1920, and some repack/reweigh dates in the

1950s. I cannot read the dates on the tank car photo.



Does anyone know whether or not Spencer Kellogg had any other tank

cars besides #231?



Thank you



Denny



Denny S. Anspach MD

Sacramento


















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Santa Fe tank car - Cocoa Beach clinic teaser

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

A couple of months ago I mentioned the possibility of using Avery label material to represent thin overlapping metal sheets. I'm far enough along with that to offer this "teaser" for my Prototype Rails clinic on Archer rivets:

http://home.att.net/~pullmanproject/Tk-G-5.jpg

The tank and dome cores were made by rapid prototyping. They were hand-finished and overlaid with layers of Avery transparent label stock with the surface detail pattern printed on. The tank shell required four layers to get all the overlaps. The transparency made aligning the layers fairly straightforward, and the printing made locating the Archer rivets equally straightforward. The tank hold-down fittings were made by rapid prototyping, everything else on the tank surface is Archer.

See you in Cocoa Beach, everyone have a happy holiday season!

Tom Madden


Re: Gondola question

George Hollwedel
 

"The Freight Yard" made a lot of decal sets for those models. I don't know if they still have them or if they are still in business. They are/were a big N Scale seller in California.

Prototype N Scale Models (TM)
by George Hollwedel
310 Loma Verde St
Buda, TX 78610-9785
512-796-6883
http://www.micro-trains.com/sr-0912-hollwedelWP.php
http://www.atlasrr.com/special.htm
http://www.imrcmodels.com/n/sr/nsr.htm

--- On Mon, 12/21/09, roblmclear <rob.mclear2@bigpond.com> wrote:

From: roblmclear <rob.mclear2@bigpond.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Gondola question
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 4:39 PM
Hi to the group

And to all of you the very best for Christmas and the New
Year.   I have a small question I have an N
scale kit of a GS Composite side gondola from Dimi Trains,
it started life as a Sugar Beet gondola with the high sides
but after some surgery and modifications gives me a
reasonable facsimilie of the Union Pacific G-50-11.  I
know that it is not 100% correct but it is pretty
close.   I have the Union Pacific freight car
book by Terry Metcalfe which give a good picture on page 150
of the car and the lettering.   Question is
does anyone know of a decal sheet available in N scale for
these cars if not what colour should the lettering be it is
hard to make out in the book if it is white or yellow, or
indeed a mixture of both?   I can probably
make up enough lettering to make the car look OK from other
sheets but I would need to know wether the lettering was
white or yellow can anyone assist?
TIA

Rob McLear
Brisbane Australia.



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Yahoo! Groups Links


    STMFC-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com



Re: Gondola question

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 21, 2009, at 2:39 PM, roblmclear wrote:

Hi to the group

And to all of you the very best for Christmas and the New Year. I
have a small question I have an N scale kit of a GS Composite side
gondola from Dimi Trains, it started life as a Sugar Beet gondola
with the high sides but after some surgery and modifications gives
me a reasonable facsimilie of the Union Pacific G-50-11. I know
that it is not 100% correct but it is pretty close. I have the
Union Pacific freight car book by Terry Metcalfe which give a good
picture on page 150 of the car and the lettering. Question is
does anyone know of a decal sheet available in N scale for these
cars if not what colour should the lettering be it is hard to make
out in the book if it is white or yellow, or indeed a mixture of
both? I can probably make up enough lettering to make the car
look OK from other sheets but I would need to know wether the
lettering was white or yellow can anyone assist?
Rob, the lettering was white when the cars were new. UP lettering
did not change to yellow until mid-1947, and many cars survived with
white lettering for a long time after that. Champ made decal sets in
HO specifically for this car in both white and yellow, but I don't
know what (if anything) is available in N scale.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Holiday Greetings

Charlie Vlk
 

Bruce-
While railroads did indeed invent "standard time" I don't think the length of a day was determined
at each location........ the speed at which the earth rotates was not subject to local regulation..... just
the indexing of clock time in relation to it.
..... and AFAIK this did not make any local time zone better than another for taking freight car photos.
<G>
Charlie Vlk



Joe, the first day of spring is the vernal equinox, when the day and
night are each 12 hours. December 21st is the winter solstice, the
shortest day of the year. This is of course all relevant to steam era
freight cars because it was the railroads that invented "standard time"
<G>. Otherwise time, and therefore length of day, was determined at
each location...

So a joyous solstice to all of you out there and especially you
druids...

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Gondola question

roblmclear <rob.mclear2@...>
 

Hi to the group

And to all of you the very best for Christmas and the New Year. I have a small question I have an N scale kit of a GS Composite side gondola from Dimi Trains, it started life as a Sugar Beet gondola with the high sides but after some surgery and modifications gives me a reasonable facsimilie of the Union Pacific G-50-11. I know that it is not 100% correct but it is pretty close. I have the Union Pacific freight car book by Terry Metcalfe which give a good picture on page 150 of the car and the lettering. Question is does anyone know of a decal sheet available in N scale for these cars if not what colour should the lettering be it is hard to make out in the book if it is white or yellow, or indeed a mixture of both? I can probably make up enough lettering to make the car look OK from other sheets but I would need to know wether the lettering was white or yellow can anyone assist?
TIA

Rob McLear
Brisbane Australia.


Re: Holiday Greetings

Bruce Smith
 

Joe, the first day of spring is the vernal equinox, when the day and
night are each 12 hours. December 21st is the winter solstice, the
shortest day of the year. This is of course all relevant to steam era
freight cars because it was the railroads that invented "standard time"
<G>. Otherwise time, and therefore length of day, was determined at
each location...

So a joyous solstice to all of you out there and especially you
druids...

Regards,
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"joe binish" <binish6@q.com> 12/21/09 3:56 PM >>>
First day of spring!!
joe binish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>; "Espee List" <Espee@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 3:45 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Holiday Greetings


Along with conventional holiday greetings, I'd like to wish
everyone a happy December 21. An enduring memory of my childhood is my
dad's invariable comment on the 21st, "Now the days start getting
longer!"

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail,
thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links




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Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Holiday Greetings

Joseph
 

First day of spring!!
joe binish

----- Original Message -----
From: "Anthony Thompson" <thompson@signaturepress.com>
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>; "Espee List" <Espee@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, December 21, 2009 3:45 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Holiday Greetings


Along with conventional holiday greetings, I'd like to wish everyone a happy December 21. An enduring memory of my childhood is my dad's invariable comment on the 21st, "Now the days start getting longer!"
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history
------------------------------------
Yahoo! Groups Links


Holiday Greetings

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Along with conventional holiday greetings, I'd like to wish everyone a happy December 21. An enduring memory of my childhood is my dad's invariable comment on the 21st, "Now the days start getting longer!"

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Norfork & Western steam Loco

Bill Daniels <billinsf@...>
 

Bill,

Broadway Limited Imports is currently listing a N&W Y6b with sound and DCC for a list price of $499.95, but you can probably find these cheaper. BLI also has a Blue Line version (no sound or DCC) of a N&W class A (2-6-6-6) as well for about $100 less. I'm sure they have previously brought in A's with sound and DCC, and if you look around you might find one of these used.

Bill Daniels

Tucson, AZ

--- On Mon, 12/21/09, hman195611766 <Hman56@aol.com> wrote:

From: hman195611766 <Hman56@aol.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Norfork & Western steam Loco
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, December 21, 2009, 11:00 AM







 









I'm looking for a company the does a Model in HO scale for thw N&W.

DCC &U sound is a must, mid priced $250.00 to $400.00.

Looking for more pull and less low speed.



Bill Hodkinson


Re: Ice Harvesting on for the WFE/FGE fleet

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

There are photos of all the operations described, in the chapter of the PFE book on natural ice, though of course not in Montana. There are also the reminiscences of someone who worked on those harvests.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Ice Harvesting on for the WFE/FGE fleet

leakinmywaders
 

I thought some list members would be interested, beyond the local-interest content, in this news feature about the history of ice harvesting to supply the WFE/FGE reefer fleet on the GN. There are some nice historical photos posted with the story at the link below; I'll past the story text only below the link.

http://missoulian.com/business/local/article_81e2ed04-ecff-11de-9047-001cc4c03286.html

Flathead ice harvest was fruitful endeavor in 1900s

By CANDACE CHASE Daily Inter Lake | Posted: Sunday, December 20, 2009 8:00 am

KALISPELL - Whitefish native Kevin McCready got hooked on the history of the Flathead's coolest crop harvested in the dead of winter.

He remembers as a boy seeing the trucks loaded with ice heading for Great Northern Railway's huge ice houses. McCready was also fascinated by his retired railroader father's stories about hauling the ice harvest back on "the local" from Lake Five in the early 1950s.

"I had that background and I've always been a huge history buff," he said. "The railroad was just such a part of the town I grew up in."

McCready's quest to document the history of the Flathead's ice harvest started about six years ago when he joined the Great Northern Railway Historical Society. Retired from a career in information technology, McCready had the time to research and the skill to digitally store and share his findings.

"I began building a Web site focused on the railroad and its impact on the valley," he said.

About the same time, McCready began cataloging and archiving 120 years of Flathead Valley newspapers as a volunteer for the Museum at Central School. Through articles as well as advertisements, he began to fill in missing details about the railroad's ice house and refrigerator car history.

Oral histories collected by Stumptown Historical Society volunteers provided a fascinating human perspective.

"The deeper I got into it - it kind of whet my appetite to know more," he said.

McCready found the first mention of ice harvesting in 1890 when Henry DuPuy and William Penny put up a stock of ice for their own use. Penny then received a contract to harvest 75 tons for the Cliff House owned by John Clifford, the future mayor of Demersville.

"It was an eating establishment," McCready said. "For those days, it was pretty fancy."

Ice took off as a commodity when the Great Northern Railway arrived in Kalispell. By 1890, two ice houses were constructed in the railroad yard. A third went up in 1900.

"By that time, the demand for fresh fruit was skyrocketing," he said.

When the Great Northern moved its division point to Whitefish in 1904, the railroad built the first of about seven ice houses eventually serving the railroad. The houses held an average of 10,000 tons of ice.

McCready pulled up a photo of a typical commercial ice house on his laptop computer. It showed a large, barnlike structure with several gables and vents in the roof.

"It was a unique structure set up to vent warm air," he said. "The ice cakes were piled up and covered with sawdust for insulation."

Walls had markings to reveal the remaining inventory as demand and warm weather ate into the ice inventory, which was stocked most often in mid-February when ice was prime.

In general, the Great Northern contracted out the cutting to local crews, which provided a winter stimulus to the local economy. McCready said cutting employed up to 100 men for three to four weeks.

"It wasn't unusual to harvest 22 (million) to 30 million pounds - that's a lot of ice," he said. "The last documented ice harvest was about 2,000 tons of ice in 1972."

With unpredictable weather conditions, scheduling ice cutting was an inexact science. Lake ice needed a thickness between 10 and 18 inches with as few air pockets as possible for a slower melt.

"For the most part, in the early days ice was harvested from Little Bitterroot Lake," McCready said. "It was convenient because the first railroad line went by Little Bitterroot Lake."

Over the years, ice for the railroad was also harvested from Lake Five and later from Whitefish Lake. If these lakes didn't freeze, operations moved to Sampson, Lost Coon or Skyles lakes.

At the turn of the century, horse-drawn plows and men with shovels cleared the snow from the lake in preparation for the cutting. The work was cold and dangerous, particularly for the horses.

McCready recalled a story about a harvest in which two teams of horses were used to plow snow up on one end of the lake. For some reason, the teams were then driven up on the snow pile with disastrous results.

The combined weight of snow and horses broke through the ice.

"They lost two teams," he said.

To begin the cutting, crews scored the ice into a grid pattern by driving horses pulling an implement like a plow. A hole was then drilled with an auger large enough to insert a manpowered saw.

"It looked like a crosscut saw," McCready said. "It was a one-handled affair about five feet long."

The crew cut a large raft about 12 by 30 feet to float near shore where they would chop off blocks along a grid line for smaller cakes of 22 by 32 inches weighing 250 to 350 pounds each.

Crew members used poles and gaffs to slide the cakes up on the shore where men or horses pulled them on to railcars, wagons or trucks to haul to the ice houses. Advances such as Jeeps with snowplows, gasoline-powered buzz saws and motor-driven hoists made the ice harvest easier as the decades moved into '50s.

McCready was impressed by a live continuous chain conveyor that Ed McKenzie innovated in 1952 to lift ice cakes from the water up to a loading platform. The ice entrepreneur also gained local fame for another exploit.

"One time Ed was driving a Jeep with a snowplow and went nose-first into a hole but he got out," McCready said. "It was to some extent dangerous work."

The danger didn't end with the harvest and stocking houses.

In his report called "Icing the Cars," McCready quotes a Mr. Rooney, who filled the ice bunkers of cars for Western Fruit Express, a subsidiary formed by Great Northern Railway to handle the complexities of shipping perishable goods.

In the middle of the night with implements called pikes, Rooney tells of manhandling the ice down rickety, narrow gangways from the second floor of an ice house to platforms next to the tops of the refrigerator cars.

He then pushed the ice down to a walkway across the refrigerator cars to load into ice wells on either end of the "refeer" cars.

"The job was dangerous - the blocks were heavy, slippery and hard to control, it was night, the gangways and roofs were covered with crushed ice, and the workers were all young. Dreadful work," Rooney said.

In the heyday of such cars, McCready said crews could ice up to 170 cars at one spotting from the rows of ice houses lined up on by the tracks in Whitefish. Ice from lakes in the Flathead was also shipped to fill Great Northern ice houses from Spokane to Minot, N.D., and beyond.

According to McCready, the railroad searched for ice from more convenient areas but always returned to the Flathead Valley's bounty of ice.

"It was the most reliable and the best quality," he said.

McCready continues his research. The Holy Grail would be photos of the earliest ice cutting on local lakes or any other new information about the Great Northern Railway that may be languishing in an attic or garage.

He has no desire to profit from his years of work and accumulation of information. McCready plans to write a reference paper for the Great Northern Railway Historical Society and to have his research on a public Web site.

"I think history is for sharing," he said.


Norfork & Western steam Loco

Bill Hodkinson
 

I'm looking for a company the does a Model in HO scale for thw N&W.
DCC &U sound is a must, mid priced $250.00 to $400.00.
Looking for more pull and less low speed.

Bill Hodkinson

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