Maybe I should arrange to have some of our local (Hatch, NM is just down the Interstate from here) chilies shipped out... via a 40' PFE ice reefer (to keep this on subject).

And we are in the Mountain time zone, just an hour ahead of the Bay Area...

Bill Daniels

Tucson, AZ

Bill Daniels wrote:

And it was perfect... with enough left over for roast beef sandwiches for days to come. We can get some locally roasted green Anaheim chillies to go with the sandwiches.

Boy, is my keyboard getting drenched . . . us Pacific Time Zone folks haven't eaten yet . . . boy, do those chilies sound great.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Denny, if you're fussy about how your pecan pies are made, what kind of meat
do you use in your mince(d) meat pie? The best I ever had was made with
venison. Nowadays most mincemeat pies seem to be minced apple & raisin pies.

Jim H.

On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Bill Daniels <billinsf@...> wrote:

Denny,

Ours came out when it hit 125... half an hour later it was ready to slice
and serve.
And it was perfect... with enough left over for roast beef sandwiches for
days to come. We can get some locally roasted green Anaheim chillies to go
with the sandwiches.

Bill Daniels

Tucson, AZ

--- On Fri, 12/25/09, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...<thompson%40signaturepress.com>>
wrote:

From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...<thompson%40signaturepress.com>

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tank Car lettering conventions
To: STMFC@... <STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, December 25, 2009, 4:17 PM




Denny Anspach wrote:

While I relax at the computer and contemplate decal applications on

my STEAM ERA FREIGHT CARS, I absent myself every 30 minutes to baste

the roast . It will be removed from the oven when the core temp

reaches 120º, and then allowed to rest for awhile until carved at

the table.

Aw, cut it out, Denny! You're making my mouth water all over my

keyboard!

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep ress.com


Publishers of books on railroad history

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Denny,

You did better than I did... the only meal I had on a Southern Pacific Train (101) was courtesy of the automat. Yeccchhh!

Fortunately, the train had five PA's on the point as we went over Donner that morning, which made up for that unforgettable (no matter how hard I've tried) meal.

Bill Daniels

Tucson, AZ

Denny,

Ours came out when it hit 125... half an hour later it was ready to slice and serve.
And it was perfect... with enough left over for roast beef sandwiches for days to come. We can get some locally roasted green Anaheim chillies to go with the sandwiches.

Bill Daniels

Tucson, AZ

Wow Denny sounds good. My father likes it simple and asked if pizza would be okay. My wife made fudge, pistacio puddy, cold vegetable pizza, cheese ball and marshmallow crunches. I made pepperoni pizza and bacon, pepperoni pizza.

Mark Morgan in Ohio with rain.

Bill Kelly wrote:

The 1941 AAR Specifications for Tank Cars has a lettering diagram in appendix C, this is the same drawing that appears in the Car Builder'sCyclopedias. Note 6 to the diagram states "Car number and initials to be stencilled on underframe center sills, or side sills, and on both truck bolsters". No location on the center or side sills is specified so it may be hard to find.

The drawing in the 1946 Cyc, page 373, does not show anything about the center sill, Bill.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

The 1941 AAR Specifications for Tank Cars has a lettering diagram in
appendix C, this is the same drawing that appears in the Car Builder's
Cyclopedias. Note 6 to the diagram states "Car number and initials to be
stencilled on underframe center sills, or side sills, and on both truck
bolsters". No location on the center or side sills is specified so it may
be hard to find.

I too have trouble with that small white lettering in decal sets.
Sometimes, depending on the paper, coloring the back of the sheet with a
black Sharpie helps to make them easier to see.

Merry Christmas
Bill Kelly


Denny Anspach wrote:

Friends, would you kindly refer me to a ready source for learning
standard tank car lettering conventions? I have studied many tank
photos, some of them very nice high resolution, and either my eyes
or the pixelated nature of the photos have prevented me from actually
reading much of the lettering, or enough to determine patterns.

From what I am able to determine, it seemed common- required?- that
both reporting marks and car number be repeated on the sides of the
center sill, presumably so that if tank and frame were separated,
the source of each could still be identified. Capacity and weight the

same? What about other data?

Sometimes the decals provide the clues, but in instances presently
at hand, no such clues are available (in one instance, the fine white

lettering cannot be read against the light blue background decal
paper!) .

Any suggestions, help would be much appreciated.

(There is nothing so very relaxing on a Christmas Day afternoon as a

little dose of Prototype Freight car modeling, made especially
pleasant by the smells of a prime rib roast in the oven
downstairs).


Denny


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento







------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links

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Denny Anspach wrote:

While I relax at the computer and contemplate decal applications on
my STEAM ERA FREIGHT CARS, I absent myself every 30 minutes to baste
the roast . It will be removed from the oven when the core temp
reaches 120º, and then allowed to rest for awhile until carved at
the table.

Aw, cut it out, Denny! You're making my mouth water all over my
keyboard!

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Denny Anspach wrote:

From what I am able to determine, it seemed common- required?- that
both reporting marks and car number be repeated on the sides of the
center sill, presumably so that if tank and frame were separated,
the source of each could still be identified. Capacity and weight
the same? What about other data?

As far as I know, Denny, this practice was at the discretion
of the owner of the car (I've never seen an MCB or ARA/AAR lettering
drawing with tank car center sill lettering). There are certainly a
few photos out there of reasonably fresh tank car paint jobs and NO
such lettering on center sills, but my impression is that a large
majority of owners DID put initials and number on the center sill (and
almost always, repack data are there too). But size and location of
the lettering varied widely. This is especially evident in the many
AC&F builder photos we have. So as with so many things, you need a
prototype photo to letter your model correctly. Some owners did letter
additional items on the center sill, as I gather you've noticed also.

(There is nothing so very relaxing on a Christmas Day afternoon as a
little dose of Prototype Freight car modeling, made especially
pleasant by the smells of a prime rib roast in the oven downstairs).

Quite true, though I lean to the situation where that roast is
cooking at the house you'll visit later today for dinner, and thus
someone ELSE will be doing the heroic mountain of dishes afterward.
<g> At our house, the dishwasher is invariably ME.

Oh, yes. However, I have a children and grandchildren with whom I barter hospitality for such homely tasks.

Well, today, I am chef, cook, and bottle washer with my capable son-in-law as assistant- a Christmas present to Mama. I made pecan and mincemeat pies yesterday (only Grade B dark maple syrup, and roasted pecans!). While I relax at the computer and contemplate decal applications on my STEAM ERA FREIGHT CARS, I absent myself every 30 minutes to baste the roast . It will be removed from the oven when the core temp reaches 120º, and then allowed to rest for awhile until carved at the table.

Some of the very finest most tasty Prime Rib I can ever recall (more than once) was prepared by Southern Pacific Railroad chefs.

Denny

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

My carelessness had me replying to what I thought was a PM. Please accept my apologies, and let me take some more of your bandwidth to wish everyone well.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

Hello Paul,
Add $2.00. I figure that by all rights, this should be Brian's best selling truck.

Andy Carlson
111 S Encinal Ave
Ojai CA 93023

805 646 3334

I will mailing after the first. Thanks,
-Andy




________________________________
From: "cobrapsl@..." <cobrapsl@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, December 25, 2009 12:52:25 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Tahoe Model Works latest HO 50T truck



Hi Andy,

I got the "flyer" and my answer from Brian as to the truck prototype. Looks like it was a big replacement truck under SP B-50-15 and 16 boxcars. Since this was a big Sunshine seller, not to mention CIL, there is a real need for these things. Please give a dozen sets, w/o wheels to start. Total with shipping?

Merry Christmas!
Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Andy Carlson <midcentury@sbcgloba l.net>
To: Steam Era <stmfc@yahoogroups. com>
Sent: Wed, Dec 23, 2009 8:35 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Tahoe Model Works latest HO 50T truck

I am pleased to be able to offer the latest Tahoe Model Works HO 50 Ton truck. This is arguably the most used of his entire line in the prototype world. This is his 9th offering to date.

I am sure that Brian will make his notice to this list shortly, though I will summarize the users:

1920s to the late 1930s
ATSF B&O CB&Q CNCP CV CoG C&NW C&EI ERIE DL&W GTWIC MP NP RI SL-SF SP T&NO T&P UP and WP. Also PFESFRD

Brian informs me that these trucks were used extensively as replacements for earlier- defect prone trucks such as the PFE's T-section.

Prices from me are $5.25/pair with either code 88 or fat wheels.
Sideframes less wheelsets w/ brake beams are $3.00/pair

I still have a good selection of trucks 001-008 with and w/o wheelsets.

Shipping is based on actual charges. I do accept PayPal, and I still welcome personal checks.As before, I can be contacted off-list (please) at <midcentury@sbcgloba l.net>
Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
805 646 3334

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Dec 25, 2009, at 1:16 PM, Denny Anspach wrote:

Friends, would you kindly refer me to a ready source for learning
standard tank car lettering conventions? I have studied many tank
photos, some of them very nice high resolution, and either my eyes or
the pixelated nature of the photos have prevented me from actually
reading much of the lettering, or enough to determine patterns.

From what I am able to determine, it seemed common- required?- that
both reporting marks and car number be repeated on the sides of the
center sill, presumably so that if tank and frame were separated, the
source of each could still be identified. Capacity and weight the
same? What about other data?

Sometimes the decals provide the clues, but in instances presently at
hand, no such clues are available (in one instance, the fine white
lettering cannot be read against the light blue background decal
paper!) .

Any suggestions, help would be much appreciated.

As a general guide, which (among other things) explains the required
tank test data, one can hardly do better than the AAR Standard
Lettering and Marking Diagrams, which were published in every issue
of the Car Builders' Cyclopedias. Interestingly, These do not show
reporting marks and numbers on the center sill as a requirement,
though - as Tony Thompson has pointed out - most tank car owners, and
all of the major tank car leasing companies, did so. Nominal
capacity, light weight, and weigh station symbol and date were
generally just below the reporting marks and numbers on the tank, but
the exact arrangement varied (e.g., GATC tended to put them all on
the same line). Note, too, that tank cars, unlike other freight
cars, did not have to be periodically reweighed, as shippers were
charged on the basis of gallonage, not weight. Consequently, they
were reweighed only when repairs or modifications significantly
affected their light weight (e.g., the application of AB brake
equipment in place of K brakes). They often carried their NEW light
weight and weighing date for many years after they were built. As an
extreme case, I have a photo of a UTL Van Dyke car taken in the early
'50s which still bore the stenciling "NEW 4-12." though its trucks
(but not its KD brake equipment) had been changed. It should also be
pointed out that tank test data was simpler on cars (e.g., ICC -203s
in wine or corn oil service) that were not used for what the ICC
defined as "regulatory commodities" which would burn, explode,
corrode, etc. For more specific info, let me know off-list what
you're working on and I will consult my photo files.

Richard Hendrickson

I lived in Minnesota from the mid-50s to the early 70's, More than one local
TV news program proclaimed proudly "Here in the Great Northwest". Maybe
that's what confused Tim. False advertising by the TV stations.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon (herein the real Great Northwest)
www.sunshinemodels.com

On Fri, Dec 25, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Richard Hendrickson <
rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Dec 24, 2009, at 8:03 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Ahem, Richard. Fact checking is in order. Coal was burned in
locomotives in Washington state, on the NP for example. Coal
was used in the production of cement and no doubt for other
purposes as well. And sources included western Canada as well
as Utah, Colorado, Montana, Wyoming and North Dakota.

Ahem, Tim. I have checked the statements in my e-mail.

I wrote:

In the steam era, most of the relatively little coal used in the
Northwest came from southern Utah.

Fact. Take a look, e.g., at the large number of D&RGW and UCR gons
on the Bieber interchange list. Sure, some coal came from other
sources as well. I did not say otherwise.

I wrote:

Nowhere in Oregon was coal mined in commercial quantities.

Fact. There was not a single coal mine in Oregon producing enough
coal to fill even one hopper car.

I wrote:

That's why all the steam locomotives burned oil, and why most
industries were fueled by oil or natural gas.

Fact. I grant that NP steam locos burned lignite (flammable dirt
that only barely qualifies as coal) in extreme eastern Washington.
However, on all of the railroads that served Seattle, Portland,
Vancouver, the Columbia River, and most of the rest of the area,
steam power burned oil.

Note that I my reference was to the Northwest. The Pacific Northwest
consists of Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia. Period. Utah,
Colorado, Montana, and Wyoming are in the Mountain West, not the
Pacific Northwest, as understood by everyone who lives out here. As
for North Dakota, it's separated from eastern Oregon and Washington
by 500 miles of Rocky Mountains and Great Plains, and by many more
miles than that from the major population centers in the Pacific
Northwest. You seem to be afflicted with the kind of geographical
confusion about the Western U.S. that is endemic among those who live
east of the Mississippi (and even more so among those who live east
of the Hudson).

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Dec 24, 2009, at 8:03 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Ahem, Richard. Fact checking is in order. Coal was burned in
locomotives in Washington state, on the NP for example. Coal
was used in the production of cement and no doubt for other
purposes as well. And sources included western Canada as well
as Utah, Colorado, Montana, Wyoming and North Dakota.

Ahem, Tim. I have checked the statements in my e-mail.

I wrote:

In the steam era, most of the relatively little coal used in the
Northwest came from southern Utah.

Fact. Take a look, e.g., at the large number of D&RGW and UCR gons
on the Bieber interchange list. Sure, some coal came from other
sources as well. I did not say otherwise.

I wrote:

Nowhere in Oregon was coal mined in commercial quantities.

Fact. There was not a single coal mine in Oregon producing enough
coal to fill even one hopper car.

I wrote:

That's why all the steam locomotives burned oil, and why most
industries were fueled by oil or natural gas.

Fact. I grant that NP steam locos burned lignite (flammable dirt
that only barely qualifies as coal) in extreme eastern Washington.
However, on all of the railroads that served Seattle, Portland,
Vancouver, the Columbia River, and most of the rest of the area,
steam power burned oil.

Note that I my reference was to the Northwest. The Pacific Northwest
consists of Oregon, Washington, and British Columbia. Period. Utah,
Colorado, Montana, and Wyoming are in the Mountain West, not the
Pacific Northwest, as understood by everyone who lives out here. As
for North Dakota, it's separated from eastern Oregon and Washington
by 500 miles of Rocky Mountains and Great Plains, and by many more
miles than that from the major population centers in the Pacific
Northwest. You seem to be afflicted with the kind of geographical
confusion about the Western U.S. that is endemic among those who live
east of the Mississippi (and even more so among those who live east
of the Hudson).

Richard Hendrickson

Sorry List, and Mike,

That was suppose to be off list to Andy.

Paul Lyons

Denny Anspach wrote:

From what I am able to determine, it seemed common- required?- that both reporting marks and car number be repeated on the sides of the center sill, presumably so that if tank and frame were separated, the source of each could still be identified. Capacity and weight the same? What about other data?

As far as I know, Denny, this practice was at the discretion of the owner of the car (I've never seen an MCB or ARA/AAR lettering drawing with tank car center sill lettering). There are certainly a few photos out there of reasonably fresh tank car paint jobs and NO such lettering on center sills, but my impression is that a large majority of owners DID put initials and number on the center sill (and almost always, repack data are there too). But size and location of the lettering varied widely. This is especially evident in the many AC&F builder photos we have. So as with so many things, you need a prototype photo to letter your model correctly. Some owners did letter additional items on the center sill, as I gather you've noticed also.

(There is nothing so very relaxing on a Christmas Day afternoon as a little dose of Prototype Freight car modeling, made especially pleasant by the smells of a prime rib roast in the oven downstairs).

Quite true, though I lean to the situation where that roast is cooking at the house you'll visit later today for dinner, and thus someone ELSE will be doing the heroic mountain of dishes afterward. <g> At our house, the dishwasher is invariably ME.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

Friends, would you kindly refer me to a ready source for learning standard tank car lettering conventions? I have studied many tank photos, some of them very nice high resolution, and either my eyes or the pixelated nature of the photos have prevented me from actually reading much of the lettering, or enough to determine patterns.

From what I am able to determine, it seemed common- required?- that both reporting marks and car number be repeated on the sides of the center sill, presumably so that if tank and frame were separated, the source of each could still be identified. Capacity and weight the same? What about other data?

Sometimes the decals provide the clues, but in instances presently at hand, no such clues are available (in one instance, the fine white lettering cannot be read against the light blue background decal paper!) .

Any suggestions, help would be much appreciated.

(There is nothing so very relaxing on a Christmas Day afternoon as a little dose of Prototype Freight car modeling, made especially pleasant by the smells of a prime rib roast in the oven downstairs).


Denny


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento

Hi Andy,

I got the "flyer" and my answer from Brian as to the truck prototype. Looks like it was a big replacement truck under SP B-50-15 and 16 boxcars. Since this was a big Sunshine seller, not to mention CIL, there is a real need for these things. Please give a dozen sets, w/o wheels to start. Total with shipping?

Merry Christmas!
Paul

Tim,
I agree, brake fluid isn't particularly volatile, but it can boil.
Driving down a steep mountain and braking too hard can fill one's brakes
lines with vaporized brake fluid and lead to brake failure.
Brake fluid is also flamable. Probably not real easy to ignite in
normal circumstances, but once while working on a GM assembly line I hooked up
a car battery, only to find the positive cable was laying loose on the
brake lines. It cut through them as easy as soft butter and the fluid hit the
white hot sparks and all but blew up in my face. We had to shut the line
down and evacuate the area because of the cloud of smoke it put out. So
take care is you use it near flames (like one of those little butane torches).
Rich Burg