I lived in Minnesota from the mid-50s to the early 70's, More than one local
TV news program proclaimed proudly "Here in the Great Northwest". Maybe
that's what confused Tim. False advertising by the TV stations.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon (herein the real Great Northwest)
www.sunshinemodels.com

I have done business for many year with Park Varieties. It's owner
Frank Bura and a member of this list passed away a couple of weeks ago.
Frank was a great guy and he will be missed. Which brings me to my
question. Does anyone know of a small home run model railroad business when
I can purchase my freight cars and assorted items I might need.


Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

I have done business for many year with Park Varieties. It's owner
Frank Bura and a member of this list passed away a couple of weeks ago.
Frank was a great guy and he will be missed. Which brings me to my
question. Does anyone know of a small home run model railroad business when
I can purchase my freight cars and assorted items I might need.


Jon Miller
AT&SF
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax, Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI user
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS

Well, actually Richard you are incorrect again. The Northern Pacific,
according to Mr. Warren McGee, a former NP employee and historian
of great respect, has written that the NP had three different coal districts.

The far eastern portion of the railroad was fueled in the steam era by lake
coal carried on return trips by ore carriers. The central part was fueled by
lignite coal from the NP's own mines. And the western portion was fueled
with coal that came from Washington state itself. It was NOT lignite, but
with all honesty, a bituminous of only fair quality when compared to it's
eastern counterparts.

The Northern Pacific burned Washington state bituminous coal well
through the 1940's and into the 50's. Oil fuel for steam locomotives out
of Tacoma, for example, was only to be found on some passenger, and
switching engines in the 1950's. Coal was still the common fuel on most
freight locomotive around Tacoma and Seattle almost to the end of steam.
There are some great articles to be found in the "Mainstreeter", the NPRHA
magazine, about NP steam era freights working out of Tacoma with coal
burning locomotive in the 1950's. And, for whoever is interested, photos
of the NP coal docks in western Washington state, painted in the railroads
distinctive two color scheme.

Happiness, Jerry Stewart
In a very ice covered Woodstock, Ill.

On Dec 24, 2009, at 8:03 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Ahem, Richard. Fact checking is in order. Coal was burned in
locomotives in Washington state, on the NP for example. Coal
was used in the production of cement and no doubt for other
purposes as well. And sources included western Canada as well
as Utah, Colorado, Montana, Wyoming and North Dakota.

Ahem, Tim. I have checked the statements in my e-mail.

I wrote:

In the steam era, most of the relatively little coal used in the
Northwest came from southern Utah.

Fact. Take a look, e.g., at the large number of D&RGW and UCR gons
on the Bieber interchange list. Sure, some coal came from other
sources as well. I did not say otherwise.

I wrote:

Nowhere in Oregon was coal mined in commercial quantities.

Fact. There was not a single coal mine in Oregon producing enough
coal to fill even one hopper car.

I wrote:

That's why all the steam locomotives burned oil, and why most
industries were fueled by oil or natural gas.

Fact. I grant that NP steam locos burned lignite (flammable dirt
that only barely qualifies as coal) in extreme eastern Washington.
However, on all of the railroads that served Seattle, Portland,
Vancouver, the Columbia River, and most of the rest of the area,
steam power burned oil.

Richard Hendrickson

Denny Anspach wrote:

Well, today, I am chef, cook, and bottle washer with my capable son-in-law as assistant- a

made pecan and mincemeat pies yesterday (only Grade B dark maple syrup, and roasted pecans!).

computer and contemplate decal applications on my STEAM ERA FREIGHT CARS, I absent myself every 30

to baste the roast . It will be removed from the oven when the core temp reaches 120º, and then

awhile until carved at the table.

On Dec 24, 2009, at 8:03 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Ahem, Richard. Fact checking is in order. Coal was burned in
locomotives in Washington state, on the NP for example. Coal
was used in the production of cement and no doubt for other
purposes as well. And sources included western Canada as well
as Utah, Colorado, Montana, Wyoming and North Dakota.

Ahem, Tim. I have checked the statements in my e-mail.

I wrote:

In the steam era, most of the relatively little coal used in the
Northwest came from southern Utah.

Fact. Take a look, e.g., at the large number of D&RGW and UCR gons
on the Bieber interchange list. Sure, some coal came from other
sources as well. I did not say otherwise.

I wrote:

Nowhere in Oregon was coal mined in commercial quantities.

Fact. There was not a single coal mine in Oregon producing enough
coal to fill even one hopper car.

I wrote:

That's why all the steam locomotives burned oil, and why most
industries were fueled by oil or natural gas.

Fact. I grant that NP steam locos burned lignite (flammable dirt
that only barely qualifies as coal) in extreme eastern Washington.
However, on all of the railroads that served Seattle, Portland,
Vancouver, the Columbia River, and most of the rest of the area,
steam power burned oil.

Richard Hendrickson

It's rare to find meat in any mincemeat pie anymore... I've had

several when a friend of mine was in the grass-fed beef business a

couple of years ago. Karen would take orders for them several weeks

before Thanksgiving. And I believe venison was the traditional meat.

Nowadays, it's usually justraisins and apples... but it's still tasty.

Denny,

Ours came out when it hit 125... half an hour later it was ready to slice
and serve.
And it was perfect... with enough left over for roast beef sandwiches for
days to come. We can get some locally roasted green Anaheim chillies to go
with the sandwiches.

Bill Daniels

Tucson, AZ

--- On Fri, 12/25/09, Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com<thompson%40signaturepress.com>>
wrote:

From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@signaturepress.com<thompson%40signaturepress.com>

Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Tank Car lettering conventions
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, December 25, 2009, 4:17 PM




Denny Anspach wrote:

While I relax at the computer and contemplate decal applications on

my STEAM ERA FREIGHT CARS, I absent myself every 30 minutes to baste

the roast . It will be removed from the oven when the core temp

reaches 120º, and then allowed to rest for awhile until carved at

the table.

Aw, cut it out, Denny! You're making my mouth water all over my

keyboard!

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep ress.com


Publishers of books on railroad history



 

And it was perfect... with enough left over for roast beef

sandwiches for days to come. We can get some locally roasted green

Anaheim chillies to go with the sandwiches.

Denny Anspach wrote:

From what I am able to determine, it seemed common- required?- that

both reporting marks and car number be repeated on the sides of the

center sill, presumably so that if tank and frame were separated,

the source of each could still be identified. Capacity and weight

the same? What about other data?

As far as I know, Denny, this practice was at the discretion

of the owner of the car (I've never seen an MCB or ARA/AAR lettering

drawing with tank car center sill lettering). There are certainly a

few photos out there of reasonably fresh tank car paint jobs and NO

such lettering on center sills, but my impression is that a large

majority of owners DID put initials and number on the center sill (and

almost always, repack data are there too). But size and location of

the lettering varied widely. This is especially evident in the many

AC&F builder photos we have. So as with so many things, you need a

prototype photo to letter your model correctly. Some owners did letter

additional items on the center sill, as I gather you've noticed also.

(There is nothing so very relaxing on a Christmas Day afternoon as a

little dose of Prototype Freight car modeling, made especially

pleasant by the smells of a prime rib roast in the oven downstairs).

Quite true, though I lean to the situation where that roast is

cooking at the house you'll visit later today for dinner, and thus

someone ELSE will be doing the heroic mountain of dishes afterward.

<g> At our house, the dishwasher is invariably ME.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA

2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com

(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...

Publishers of books on railroad history

While I relax at the computer and contemplate decal applications on

my STEAM ERA FREIGHT CARS, I absent myself every 30 minutes to baste

the roast . It will be removed from the oven when the core temp

reaches 120º, and then allowed to rest for awhile until carved at

the table.

Denny Anspach wrote:

From what I am able to determine, it seemed common- required?- that
both reporting marks and car number be repeated on the sides of the
center sill, presumably so that if tank and frame were separated,
the source of each could still be identified. Capacity and weight
the same? What about other data?

As far as I know, Denny, this practice was at the discretion
of the owner of the car (I've never seen an MCB or ARA/AAR lettering
drawing with tank car center sill lettering). There are certainly a
few photos out there of reasonably fresh tank car paint jobs and NO
such lettering on center sills, but my impression is that a large
majority of owners DID put initials and number on the center sill (and
almost always, repack data are there too). But size and location of
the lettering varied widely. This is especially evident in the many
AC&F builder photos we have. So as with so many things, you need a
prototype photo to letter your model correctly. Some owners did letter
additional items on the center sill, as I gather you've noticed also.

(There is nothing so very relaxing on a Christmas Day afternoon as a
little dose of Prototype Freight car modeling, made especially
pleasant by the smells of a prime rib roast in the oven downstairs).

Quite true, though I lean to the situation where that roast is
cooking at the house you'll visit later today for dinner, and thus
someone ELSE will be doing the heroic mountain of dishes afterward.
<g> At our house, the dishwasher is invariably ME.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history