Actually everything I wrote was correct. I just forgot to include the
phrase "per miner" after the word coal. It's a bit more than half the US
average, so not only are these small mines, they're low productivity mines
as well.

Anyway, the other fact I omitted to mention that fully half of Washington's
coal came from a single mine and whatever it was named it was located in
Kittitas county. Google maps tells me Kittitas county is near Stampede
Pass, on the east side of the Cascades. Unlike most of Washington's mines
it operated for most workdays of the year.

Dave Nelson

Thanks tony: It's one of those questions that popped up while researching
the Niagara Frontier (Buffalo) NY) Food terminal.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Monday, December 28, 2009 10:04 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] express reefers loading/unloading



From what I know about PFE, the produce terminals were always
used, not passenger depots. The role of REA is an interesting
question, as they controlled express reefers for most railroads, but I
think were still routed to produce terminals to serve the normal
buyers in those locations.

Excuse the intrusion on the list, but please copy me on replies off list, too. Thanks.

SGL

I have a lot of slides and negatives of steam freight cars that I want to scan. My Epson

Perfection 2400 does a nice job,

but is slow. Since the moderator probably won't let this thread continue for long, please contact

me off list with

suggestions for an upgrade. If you have experience with an Epson Perfection V500, please let me

hear from you.

______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@... <mailto:steve.sandifer%40sbcglobal.net>
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

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Brian Carlson wrote:

To get away from coal for a moment. at larger terminals, Pittsburgh, Buffalo, Cleveland, etc would express reefers of strawberries for instance be unloaded at the station or REA terminal, or would they be delivered a food/produce terminal in the city. Cities like Buffalo and Cleveland had food terminals and I was wondering if express reefers would be switched from a passenger train to these locations?

From what I know about PFE, the produce terminals were always used, not passenger depots. The role of REA is an interesting question, as they controlled express reefers for most railroads, but I think were still routed to produce terminals to serve the normal buyers in those locations.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

I would like to post this reminder that I maintain an addenda and errata sheet for my book, Coal Cars: The First Three Hundred Years. The sheet is in pdf format and can be accessed at the following site:

http://home.earthlink.net/~coalcars/Coal_Cars.html

Bob Karig

I've just uploaded a map of the coal bearing areas of the United States into a folder by that name. The map is from the Energy Information Administration. It shows the sources of coal by type throughout the fifty states.

Bob Karig

To get away from coal for a moment. at larger terminals, Pittsburgh,
Buffalo, Cleveland, etc would express reefers of strawberries for instance
be unloaded at the station or REA terminal, or would they be delivered a
food/produce terminal in the city. Cities like Buffalo and Cleveland had
food terminals and I was wondering if express reefers would be switched from
a passenger train to these locations?
Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY

I have a lot of slides and negatives of steam freight cars that I want to scan. My Epson Perfection 2400 does a nice job, but is slow. Since the moderator probably won't let this thread continue for long, please contact me off list with suggestions for an upgrade. If you have experience with an Epson Perfection V500, please let me hear from you.
______________
J. Stephen (Steve) Sandifer
mailto:steve.sandifer@...
Home: 12027 Mulholland Drive, Meadows Place, TX 77477, 281-568-9918
Office: Southwest Central Church of Christ, 4011 W. Bellfort, Houston, TX 77025, 713-667-9417

Thanks to Greg Martin, Jack Burgess, Kurt Laughlin, Rich Orr, and Tim
O'Connor for their feedback on the Aztec airbrush, all of it very
useful. I haven't made a decision yet, but I really appreciate the
help.

Richard Hendrickson

Richard, I see no reason to resort to ad hominems about
"self appointed experts". I responded, and Jerry responded,
to a gross generalization about the use and mining of coal
in the "Pacific Northwest" (OR-WA-BC according to you) which
has a vast and diverse geography and history. And by your own
admission, you were wrong about the NP in this era, and about
GN et al in earlier eras. (Your original email was not specific
about any time period.) So what's your beef?

Last time I checked, there are nothing BUT self appointments
here and elsewhere in our hobby, as there is no official system
of appointments. Another straw man bites the dust.

Dave's post was nice but it did not provide any facts to
corroborate your original argument that coal was not used by
railroads for steam locomotives in the PNW. Twenty thousand
carloads of coal a year is about the same number of carloads
as apples loaded in Washington at this time, yet I don't hear
anyone claiming that apple production in Washington was negligible
and unimportant because apples are grown all over the US.

Coal happens. Accept it.

Tim O'Connor

I said I would have no more to say on this subject, but I can't
resist responding to Dave's very useful post.

On Dec 28, 2009, at 10:15 AM, Dave Nelson wrote:

A few FACTS from the 1950 edition of the Minerals Yearbook, published
annually by the Federal Depoartment of the Interior.

Which I don't have access to, so I'm glad Dave does.

In 1949 there were a total of 8559 Bituminous coal mines in the United
States, of which a grand total of 31 were located in Washington, 1
in Idaho,
and 0 in Oregon (hereafter refered to as NW States).

Total coal production in the US exceeded 480,000,000 tons, of which
only
902,265 tons were produced in the NW States mentioned above (that's
0.19% of
the total). Of this 902k tons, the Northern Pacific was asked to
move 476k
tons and the Great Northern 107k tons....it isn't very hard to
estimate how many
cars were used to move the above coal, in total, or as a daily
average (i.e., not many).

[snip]

FWIW, the Western Pacific moved 391k tons of bit coal in 1950. I'm
led to
understand a majority of that went to Washington state.

So what does this tell us? I got a lot of grief, some of it off-
list, about my post on this subject which started the whole
discussion, but it appears to me that Dave's evidence entirely
confirms my original statements (except for my ignorance about the
NP's use of coal, which I've already admitted). Doesn't that make a
lot of the responses to my post by self-appointed experts on Pacific
Northwest coal seem either wrong or irrelevant?

Richard Hendrickson

Mike

Yes, I previously noted that WA coal production indicated
about 50 50-ton carloads a day... (based on production) and
NP evidently moved about 1/2 of the coal. Much of this coal was
no doubt for steam power in Washington, Idaho and probably Montana.
Rich Meyer produced decals for the PCR gondolas because he saw them
in Minot ND. GN had two coal districts -- west and east -- and the
coal division point was Williston ND. There were two coal chutes at
Williston, one for each type of coal.

Tim O'Connor

Dave, you've got to watch those decimal points...

Tim O'Connor

Richard

I have the original "Aztek" and a later replacement. I've found it
very difficult to prevent clogging. When it works, it works very
nicely, even with acrylic colors. The basic lesson is to use
very fresh paint* (absolutely no particles in it) and to clean the
nozzle the second you stop with a color. Don't even let it sit for
10 seconds... The coolest feature is of course being able to change
the tips so easily, and I like having caps on the color cups.

* With acrylics, I pour out what I want from the bottle. Anything
that is not used is thrown away. Never put it back in the bottle.
This keeps the bottle fresh.

On the other hand, mostly I use my Paasche H and VL... I know how
they work and how to clean them, and they are predictable.

Tim O'Connor

I have a C&WC car I bought in 1967 and never built. The bug bit me again and I am back building HO models. I'm trying to update it with some current parts. Have decided to use Tichy "wooden doors" and am asking for your advice on replacing the metal ends which came with the kit. The brake work will be Tichy K brake parts.

Who makes parts which will be adequate for this model's ends? Any help is appreciated.

Richard,

I purchased one of the Aztek brushes when they were first introduced. I have used it almost exclusively since then for acrylics
and most enamels. I do still use my old Badger for weathering with enamels as I think I can get a fine mist for overall weathering
and finer lines for shadowing from the Badger for this purpose.

Rich Orr

Hmmm. Dave's data shows that NP moved about 25 loads of Washington coal per day. Kind of like the guy who was the last guy killed by bullet in WW2. Probably not many killed at that time and, therefore, not a significant event...unless you happen to be the guy killed. 25 loads of coal in one day ain't much...unless the NP happened to deliver 52 tons of it to your front yard by mistake.

Mike Brock

A lot of people hate, absolutely hate them. I have one and find it perfectly adequate for modeling. I think much of the problem is that people follow the instructions too rigidly and do not take the nozzles apart for cleaning. You can and should. There are also several nozzles available for different media (acrylics, lacquers, enamels) and spray patterns. You'll need to experiment. The signal advantage I've found is the ease of cleaning - I'm talking seconds, not minutes. Also, there is almost no risk of damage compared to the conventional needle type airbrushes. (You can break them, but last I heard they had a lifetime warranty.) The paint and air flow controls take practice to figure out. You also have to relearn your thinning and coverage paradigms to suit the brush, but that's normal for any change.

If you had a Badger internal mix airbrush before I think you'll find that it will do about 80% of what it could. If you are doing fine work (crisp lines 1/16 or thinner) it probably will not work the way you like. For that reason I have rehabilitated my old Badger 200 which covers most of the difference between the Aztek and a $300 or $400 model. At that point I'm at the limit of my ability anyway.

I would suggest that you borrow one and try it out. Another thing people hate is the grip and the "ohmigod-plastic-not-solid-brass" feel.

I made a stand/holder by bending some coathanger wire that keeps it stable and level while loading/mixing paint. (I use the bottom spout cups so just mix/thin the paint in the cup while attached to the brush.)

Here is a forum search page with a large number of results to read. A similar search on any military modeling site will probably get you the same sort of info.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/47211/search?searchterm=aztek&sort=match

P.S.: My experiences above relate to the A470 brush, sold as A470_ sets.

HTH,
KL

I've read good reviews on the Aztek too. I'm guessing one of its advantages
is the system to clean it. However, I'm a "belt and suspenders" type of
person and would not feel comfortable if I didn't disassemble my airbrush
after every painting session. I've used Badger 150 dual action air brushes
for decades but had to switch models last year when my last one needed to be
replaced. I ended up purchasing a Badger Anthem and am extremely satisfied
with it....easy to disassemble and put back together after cleaning, good
and very precise control, etc.


Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

Richard,

I have only heard good things about this brush especially if you are thinking of converting to Acryllic paints. Mark Kerlick bought one when they first came out and now he swears by it. Me, well I still have to be convinced to give up my Badger single action and dual action as well as my other two airbrushes before I will convert. I did get my son a new one for Christmas and bought the dual action brush... soooo...

Greg Martin