Date   

Re: NEWSPRINT

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Paul:



LA Times owned Publishers Paper Co. in Portland OR. This is where their
newsprint came from by the trainload.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Paul
Catapano
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 9:54 AM
To: Steam_Era
Subject: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT





C. 1952

Was much newsprint produced in the US?
Or had it's production moved to Canada?

Paul Catapano


Re: NEWSPRINT

Greg Martin
 

Rob,

If memory serves me correct, it is the Herald Examiner plant. I can check tonight as I have an SP "Spins List" booklet for that area at home from the 80s.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: geodyssey <riverob@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 7:12 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NEWSPRINT




Isn't there a huge rail-served Times printing plant in Santa Ana or Costa Mesa, visible just north of the I-405?

When I was switching on the UP back in the late 70s-early 80s, a midnight job would take four 100-ton boxcars of paper three or four times a week to a Times printing plant via a switchback behind the DART warehouse. I think this plant printed phone books. An NW2 with a running start and sanding would not always be able to push two cars up the steep grade. Back up and take another run...

Rob Simpson

--- In STMFC@..., "Paul" <buygone@...> wrote:

Tim:



Not entirely true. The LA Times does not have a direct rail siding. Most
of the newsprint was received at the Southern Pacific's 8th Street paper
dock and trucked to the Times paper plant. They also received a portion via
water at the LA Harbor and that newsprint was also trucked to them.



Paul C. Koehler






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: NEWSPRINT

Dave Owens
 

My newspaper, The Hartford Courant, gets paper via the old CV and
sometimes at our siding on Amtrak's New Haven-Springfield line.

Most of the paper comes via the old CV and is transloaded at Monson,
Mass. into trucks for the final trip to the printing plant on the
first floor of our building in Hartford. Every once in a while,
though, I see a car or two on the siding.

I rarely see the NSC newsprint cars on the Hartford line so I don't
know what they're doing in New Haven. Maybe they're getting it by
truck too. The Waterbury Republican-American used to have regular
delivery of newsprint cars by Guilford (as regular as Guilford service
can be), although I don't know what the situation has been the past
few years.

What several folks have said about the importance of proper handling
is true. Although huge and heavy, rolls of newsprint are quite
fragile. And with the focus of using every bit of paper as can be used
in order to save money, divits in rolls and damaged ends are a huge
no-no.

Dave Owens
West Hartford, CT

.



--
2010 New England/Northeast Prototype Modelers Meet
June 4-5, 2010 (Always the weekend after Memorial Day)
Collinsville, Connecticut
www.neprototypemeet.com


Re: Wilson reefer (bogus?)

SUVCWORR@...
 

Tim,

According to the NRHS website TRAX was first added in 4/54 by ART.

http://www.nrhs.com/reporting_marks/aar_reporting_marks.htm

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Dec 31, 2009 12:06 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Wilson reefer (bogus?)


Gene, you've made me wonder about the relative sizes of Swift,
Armour and Wilson. (To say nothing of Oscar Mayer, et al)

Looking at fleets, in 1953 there were

4000 SRLX (Swift) reefers
= 3747 ARLX (Armour) reefers
= 1469 WCLX (Wilson) reefers

However I'm not sure if there were other reporting marks used
by these companies. I have later 50's photos of Armour TRAX cars
for example. I can't pinpoint when they began using the TRAX mark.

Tim O'Connor



At 12/30/2009 11:01 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Thanks to all who answered. Your answers were about what I expected but, since
I really didn't know, I thought I would ask. My layout would likely only see
the occasional Wilson reefer. Swift and Armour will be more frequent visitors.

Just received a new, unused Jack Sprat label which will be scanned for a sign
or two on Western Grocers in Marshalltown.

Again, thanks to all.
Gene Green


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: NEWSPRINT

cornbeltroute <cornbeltroute@...>
 

Joel,

Marty remarked on the Central Vermont's newsprint operation. For several years I have been reading the Boston & Maine list, too (BM_RR). If you search the archives there, can't imagine you won't find paper mill postings.

Model Railroad carried a detailed, two-part article on a New England paper mill. Perhaps Andy or Marty will correct me if needed, but I recall it centered on a B&M serviced industry at Berlin, N.H.:

* An industry you can model, part 1: Papermaking and the railroads
Model Railroader, October 1998 page 100
("MCGUIRK, MARTY", PAPER, PROTOTYPE)

* An industry you can model, part 2: Papermaking and the railroads today Model Railroader, November 1998 page 90
An industry with great kitbashing potential
("HEDIGER, JIM", PAPER, PROTOTYPE)

If my memory serves me well, Marty presented an N scale layout based on this mill, Jim an HO layout based on same. (I saved both articles, came across them recently, but think I can find them now? Nooooooo.)

I don't recall its name, but the printing plant just 10-12 miles north of Kalmbach's Waukesha offices is monstrously huge. Man, it's big, big, big. But, you're looking for a 1950s operation. I think the above MR articles would help you a lot.

Brian

Brian Chapman
Evansdale, Iowa


Re: Hopper train lines

bob_karig <karig@...>
 

I have just posted a copy of the brake arrangement drawing for the 50-ton, twin AAR Standard hopper car in the photo section. Unfortunately, I didn't copy the 70-ton version, but it should follow the 50-ton practice pretty closely.

Bob Karig

--- In STMFC@..., "Clark Propst" <cepropst@...> wrote:

Does the train line run along the outside of the frame on a AAR offset 3 bay hopper? (Like Stewart/Bowser and Accurail) If so, on which side of the car. I have a 3/4 photo of one car taken from the A end. It's not on that side of the car.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


NEWSPRINT

Paul Catapano
 

C. 1952
 
Was much newsprint produced in the US?
Or had it's production moved to Canada?

Paul Catapano

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Hopper train lines

bob_karig <karig@...>
 

All of the photos I have show it running down the right side of the car. (The right side of the car is on the right when you're looking at the "B" end of the car.)

Bob Karig

--- In STMFC@..., "Clark Propst" <cepropst@...> wrote:

Does the train line run along the outside of the frame on a AAR offset 3 bay hopper? (Like Stewart/Bowser and Accurail) If so, on which side of the car. I have a 3/4 photo of one car taken from the A end. It's not on that side of the car.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa



Re: NEWSPRINT

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Rob:



The LA Times had/has many plants in the greater LA Basin. Each used for a
different purpose. The main paper with the news was only printed at the
main downtown plant where all of the editorial staff also worked. Other
plants printed the Sunday funnies, Phone books, advertising supplements,
want ads etc. All but the downtown plant were rail served.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
geodyssey
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 7:13 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: NEWSPRINT





Isn't there a huge rail-served Times printing plant in Santa Ana or Costa
Mesa, visible just north of the I-405?

When I was switching on the UP back in the late 70s-early 80s, a midnight
job would take four 100-ton boxcars of paper three or four times a week to a
Times printing plant via a switchback behind the DART warehouse. I think
this plant printed phone books. An NW2 with a running start and sanding
would not always be able to push two cars up the steep grade. Back up and
take another run...

Rob Simpson

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com, "Paul"
<buygone@...> wrote:

Tim:



Not entirely true. The LA Times does not have a direct rail siding. Most
of the newsprint was received at the Southern Pacific's 8th Street paper
dock and trucked to the Times paper plant. They also received a portion
via
water at the LA Harbor and that newsprint was also trucked to them.



Paul C. Koehler


Re: NEWSPRINT

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Greg:



Bondmen's trailers were all flat bed with steel decks. All rolls were
loaded eye to the sky and bilge (eye to the side). No tie down was used;
the trailers had a set of 2" pipes that set into sockets in the bed at about
2' intervals with a steel cable running around the top. They only had about
10 blocks to go all city street driving. In all probability in locations
that Southern California you might have to do this process differently. The
Times had enough storage capacity at the plant so they did not have to
receive any paper on a rainy day. Bundren only worked for the Times.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
tgregmrtn@...
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 1:13 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT





Tony replies:


"Paul's description sounded like the rolls were not set down on the dock,
but picked up in the cars and carried to the trucks."

Understood Tony, and that is certainly a good way to do it, less handling
out of car into/onto a truck,. Lets consider the fact the forklifts have
rubber tires, often hard rubber tires for the "boxcar specials". Regardless,

the tires will pick up, transfer and deposit FOD in the trailer and likely
under the next roll of paper your driver has to set down in the trailer.
Many of the photos I have seen of paper transloading from the era we model
show the rolls of paper being loaded onto flatbed trucks with the rolls eye
to the side and braced and blocked. As a matter of fact we often use these
photos in comparison in our Power Point presentations to show that
transloading is not new to any industry. Most roll clamps also have a
turntable
mounted between the mast and the clamp so the driver can lay the roll down
eye
to the side as this is how the roll is handle to the printer. FOD would
cause the paper feeding into the printer (regardless if the damage was on
the
side or edge) to tear over and over again until the hole/tear were gone.

To answer Tim's question paper rolls vary in weight form 5k to 12k
depending on the customer specification. There all qualities of paper from
pulp
board, liner board to photo paper. Photo paper generally requires that the
rolls are set on rubber mats not only in the rail cars, but in the trucks
during distribution as well as in mill/warehouse storage, but not the case
for
news print, which normally only requires it is set on red rosin paper or
pulp board.

Greg Martin


Re: NEWSPRINT

John Riddell <jriddell@...>
 

Joel,

Published statistics show that in 1950 Canadian railways originated a total
of 3,599,329 tons of newsprint. A majority of this would have been exported
to U.S. customers in 40' boxcars of CNR, CPR and to a lesser extent ONR

There were numerous mills in communities in northern Quebec and northern
Ontario. An example was the major mill of Spruce Falls Power and Paper
Company in Kapuskasing ON - a company town. Spruce Falls was the Canadian
affiliate of Kimberly Clark Corp. which owned 51%. The New York Times
purchased 49% of the mill's production. After 1957 the Washington Post
purchased 10% of the production.

Prior to 1962 all Spruce Falls shipments were in CN standard 40' boxcars as
the mill was on a CN line. After 1964 CN had large numbers of purpose-built
50' 70-ton boxcars, with cushioned underframes, built for exclusive
newsprint service.

Rolls were 54" long and were shipped on end.

John Riddell


Re: NEWSPRINT

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Tim:



The forklift had its own transport and did not follow each load to the
plant; it stayed at the unloading dock until all cars were unloaded. This
forklift had pneumatic tires not the hard rubber tire that most people think
of when thinking of a forklift. At the Times plant they had their own
lift which unloaded the rolls from the trucks rolled them on their side and
placed them on a set of tracks which allowed them to roll down into the
basement for storage or placement on one of the presses. The rolls were
around 4.5 feet in diameter and weighted about 8,000 lbs each if my memory
is working.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 12:18 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT





Paul

Thanks. Once the truck was full, where did they put the fork lift? :-)

It's not newsprint, but a local box company here stores huge rolls
of brown craft paper outdoors, in the weather. The rolls look like
they weigh many tons. How big was a newsprint roll in the 1950's?

Tim

At 12/31/2009 02:15 AM Thursday, you wrote:
Tim:

Nothing special just a concrete dock with no cover. Rolls were normally
loaded eye to the sky and the trucker in this case Bundren would bring a
fork lift with a roll clamp. Unload the cars, transfer to their trucks, and
deliver to the Times.

Paul



_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com
[mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com] On Behalf
Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:48 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT





Paul

It sounds like from your description and Andy's that if there
was a specially equipped unloading dock then paper rolls could be
transloaded. But that's far from the suggestion of spotting a
load of newsprint at a "team track". The paper I read in NJ as a
teen (Courier-Post) had no rail service either, so it must have
come from a PRR/PRSL unloading site nearby.

Tim O'Connor

Tim:
Not entirely true. The LA Times does not have a direct rail siding. Most
of the newsprint was received at the Southern Pacific's 8th Street paper
dock and trucked to the Times paper plant. They also received a portion
via
water at the LA Harbor and that newsprint was also trucked to them.

Paul C. Koehler


Re: NEWSPRINT

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Tony:



You are correct.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 12:08 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT





Greg Martin wrote:
Paper rolls of any kind require a "paper quality floor" or dock. You
can only imagine what would happen to a roll paper if the surface
that you were unloading on were to create even small holes in the
paper edge or face. So I am sure the dock you are referring to was
a better taken care of then most and likely swept clean before any
carload was unloaded checking for any FOD material.
Paul's description sounded like the rolls were not set down on
the dock, but picked up in the cars and carried to the trucks.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com> ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: NEWSPRINT

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Greg:



The cars used were in captive newsprint service and yes they did have very
smooth and good floors. The Dock was just a normal concrete dock. Once the
rolls were lifted in the car it went straight to the flatbed truck, it was
never set down on the dock. I don't recall ever seeing any of the Teamsters
sweeping the dock at any time. Bundren had a sizeable fleet of trucks, and
it was not uncommon for them to unload 20 plus cars of newsprint in one day.
From the newsprint dock to the LA Times plant it was about 10 blocks.
Turnaround on the trucks was about 1 hour.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
tgregmrtn@...
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 11:32 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT





Paul,

Paper rolls of any kind require a "paper quality floor" or dock. You can
only imagine what would happen to a roll paper if the surface that you were
unloading on were to create even small holes in the paper edge or face. So I

am sure the dock you are referring to was a better taken care of then most
and likely swept clean before any carload was unloaded checking for any
FOD material.

Greg Martin

In a message dated 12/30/2009 11:16:27 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
buygone@earthlink. <mailto:buygone%40earthlink.net> net writes:

Tim:

Nothing special just a concrete dock with no cover. Rolls were normally
loaded eye to the sky and the trucker in this case Bundren would bring a
fork lift with a roll clamp. Unload the cars, transfer to their trucks, and
deliver to the Times.

Paul

_____

From: _STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:_STMFC%40yahoogroups.STM> STM_
(mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com)
[mailto:_STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:_STMFC%40yahoogroups.STM> STM_
(mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com) ] On Behalf
Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Wednesday, December 30, 2009 8:48 PM
To: _STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:_STMFC%40yahoogroups.STM> STM_
(mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com)
Subject: RE: [STMFC] NEWSPRINT

Paul

It sounds like from your description and Andy's that if there
was a specially equipped unloading dock then paper rolls could be
transloaded. But that's far from the suggestion of spotting a
load of newsprint at a "team track". The paper I read in NJ as a
teen (Courier-Post) had no rail service either, so it must have
come from a PRR/PRSL unloading site nearby.

Tim O'Connor

Tim:

Not entirely true. The LA Times does not have a direct rail siding. Most
of the newsprint was received at the Southern Pacific's 8th Street paper
dock and trucked to the Times paper plant. They also received a portion
via
water at the LA Harbor and that newsprint was also trucked to them.

Paul C. Koehler


Re: Westerfield HO Scale FS

Dennis Williams
 

Hi, John.
  I have a question for you.  Gary Wright is putting a Seaboard Gondola out and I would like to do an article for the SAL, SCL modeler magazine. I am trying to hook up with him for permission on his end.  May I please have some input on this idea???  Thank you.
  Now,  I hope that you and your family have a great new year.  Christmas was very good for all of us here in the PGH. Did you receive the check for the trucks and wheelsets??   They will work fine. 
  I will talk to you later.  Dennis

--- On Thu, 8/20/09, John Golden <golden1014@...> wrote:


From: John Golden <golden1014@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Westerfield HO Scale FS
To: stmfc@...
Date: Thursday, August 20, 2009, 6:29 PM


 



Brothers,
 
I have a few extra copies of Westerfield freight cars that I'd like to sell for a song.  First is #3358, B&O USRA SS box car with Hutchins roof.  Very cool car but I already have two.  This is a new version, gray one piece body.  I used the decals on a TIchy car.  Second is #4552, PRR GRA Gon with no stake pockets.  I "cleaned" (sanded) this car up in preparation to build it, but I have not yet and won't in the near future.  I'll let these cars go for cheap--if you're interested make me an offer off-line at Golden1014@yahoo. com.  Thanks--and now, back to more STMFC-ing.

John
 
John Golden
Bloomington, IN

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: NEWSPRINT

Tim O'Connor
 

That must have been a sight to see... a truck backing up to a box
car and the fork lift manuvering around with 5,000lb paper rolls
through the 6' opening of a box car (in 1948)! At least they could
keep the fork lift wheels clean that way.

Tim O'Connor

I just spoke this week to a man who worked the IC's Amboy District from 1948 on into the 80's. Although he didn't specify where it came from, he was quick to point out that the Bloomington (Illinois)daily newspaper (The Pantagragh)used to drive its trucks up to the boxcars spotted on the house track in order to pick up rolls of paper for their printing presses.

Brad Hanner


Re: Hopper train lines

Tim O'Connor
 

Clark Propst wrote

Does the train line run along the outside of the frame on a AAR
offset 3 bay hopper? (Like Stewart/Bowser and Accurail)
Yes

If so, on which side of the car. I have a 3/4 photo of one car taken
from the A end. It's not on that side of the car.
Depends on the prototype. I have photos showing train air on either
side of open hoppers. Your photo could be showing either the R side of the
car or the L side, since it's a 3/4 view. Which side is showing?

Tim O'Connor


Re: NEWSPRINT

Malcolm H. Houck
 

A great deal of newsprint was shipped into the Northeastern U. S. from
Canada via the Central Vermont and then to the New Haven.

Several times per week a "Paper Train" ran down from Lowell, MA
on the old Framingham and Lowell line -- the consist containing
many Canadian Road boxcars stenciled for handling newsprint.
Those cars would go over to the South Boston freight yards and
thence to the Boston Globe and Boston Herald - Traveler printing
plants on Harrison Avenue.

That all terminated on 4/1/1976 when Conrail and the "Final System
Plan no longer provided for any interchange at Lowell via the former
NYNH&H Framingham line. Accordingly, a single rail was lifted south
of Route 126 in Chelmsford and the life of this line as a through route
was finished. A portion of the line has only this last summer been
opened as a bike - hiking trail.......

It was on this line that I last was able to see multiple unit lash ups
of ALCo FA - FB units on the paper trains as they went through
West Concord about 4:00 p.m.........

Mal Houck


Hopper train lines

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Does the train line run along the outside of the frame on a AAR offset 3 bay hopper? (Like Stewart/Bowser and Accurail) If so, on which side of the car. I have a 3/4 photo of one car taken from the A end. It's not on that side of the car.
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


NEWSPRINT

Louie B. Hydrick
 

Greetings,

In Augusta, Georgia, until the late 1960's the local papers (both owned by
the same corporation by then) received boxcars of newsprint direct to the
printing plant. The cars in later years were more often than not 50 foot
double door boxcars primarily from the Northwest and Canadian Railroads. I
remember Great Northern, Canadian Pacific, and Northern Pacific being the
most common in the final years.

Specialized lift trucks with large clamps would grab the rolls and place
them on push carts that ran on rails in the floor of the warehouse. These
rails went from just inside the loading dock doors, thru the dedicated area
of the warehouse (a metal structure with brick end walls) for the rolls into
the printing room right up to the machine rack that held the spooled paper
for the printing machine.

There was a very old contraption at the loading dock that predated the
lift trucks for unloading the boxcars held in reserve, although I never saw it
used. Manpower was used to move the carts from the dock to the printing
machine and cutter.

After this period the paper purchased the old Coke bottling plant and used
it to receive the paper in steam era 50 foot boxcars, but trucked it the
two blocks to the new printing plant building.


Louie B. Hydrick
Associate Broker
RE/MAX Masters, Inc.
4316 Washington Road
Evans GA 30809


(706) 868-6913 Office
(706) 832-6263 Mobile
(706) 868-0887 Fax


For your real estate needs; visit me on the web at:

www.csrahomesandland.com

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