Date   

Re: Photos of interest

Dick Harley
 

On Fri Feb 5, 2010 Greg Martin posted a link to :

http://www.westernrailimages.com/


This posting was finally brought to my attention and penetrated my
consciousness, and I took a look at this website. Thanks, Greg, for
sharing this site. I am surprised to see that apparently only Tim
O'Connor has responded about it so far. The 500+ UP photos are
certainly of interest to this UP fan - great stuff. Good to know
that Jim Ozment's photos are once again available.

Thanks again,
Dick Harley


Re: Drawing or tracing lettering (was FGEX/WFEX Questions

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:



The actual letters and numbers used to make the stencils are normally drawn on their own drawing sheet(s). The lettering on the lettering sheets have various degrees of fidelity.



Al Kresse
Unfortunately, these are the drawings LEAST likely to have been saved. Lettering diagrams (for placement, not letterforms) at least look like a drawing of a railroad car to the dumpster diving railfans that saved a lot of this stuff. The drawings of the actual letters didn't, and were often passed over.

A nice example of the drawing that details the LETTERS, rather than lettering placement, is presented in Terry Metcalf's Union Pacific Freight Cars 1936-51 on page 29. Of course, this drawing is only specifically applicable to the 3" letters to be used for capacity data; other sizes may have a different ratio of stroke width to character height. Also interesting to note that there is no drawing for the G, J, or S, so if you need these letters, you're SOL, because the railroad didn't bother to create them.

This, and the kerning issue, are what lead people to complain that the Railfonts by Ben Coifmann "aren't right." Well, they're right for something, in some size, but exactly what we'll never know.

We did a custom job here at Accurail a number of years ago that involved custom drawn lettering in five different sizes, IIRC. The graphic artist who initially drew the lettering drew one size, then resized it on a stat camera for all the rest. In the 3" and 4" sizes, the narrow strokes (this was a serif "Roman" typeface, with two different stroke widths in each character) simply disappeared. After obtaining a clear copy of the photo he had worked from, some careful measurement determined that the proportion between narrow and wide strokes, and both those dimensions relative to the height of the letters, differed for each of the five sizes. Once that was sorted out, the art looked nice, but it took drawings parts of five different "fonts" to achieve it.

Dennis

Dennis


Re: Drawing or tracing lettering (was FGEX/WFEX Questions

water.kresse@...
 

The actual letters and numbers used to make the stencils are normally drawn on their own drawing sheet(s).  The lettering on the lettering sheets have various degrees of fidelity.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Denny Anspach" <danspach@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, February 8, 2010 12:30:52 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Drawing or tracing lettering (was FGEX/WFEX Questions

I have not been following this thread too closely, but I do know that  
the CSRM Library has a whole research file (publicly available)  
developed for the museum's FGE #35832 repainting in 1980.  I know that  
there exists at least an overall hand-done paint diagram similar to,  
but not the same as that presented by Dennis, but like Dennis' it too  
does not detail lettering styling.  A post to Cara Randall <crandall@...
 >, Librarian might bring further information.

Denny

Denny S.  Anspach MD
Sacramento







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Drawing or tracing lettering (was FGEX/WFEX Questions

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

I have not been following this thread too closely, but I do know that the CSRM Library has a whole research file (publicly available) developed for the museum's FGE #35832 repainting in 1980. I know that there exists at least an overall hand-done paint diagram similar to, but not the same as that presented by Dennis, but like Dennis' it too does not detail lettering styling. A post to Cara Randall <crandall@...
, Librarian might bring further information.
Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Re: Barber S-2A truck

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "brianehni" <behni@...> wrote:

And if you look at this photo, you can see the wheelstops still attached to the rail under the Soo box in the middle of the street.
A buddy was involved in something similar a few years ago, although the rail joints held when the wheel stops caught the car. He said the most interesting thing wasn't the bang when the car hit the wheel stops, but the sound of the slack running out of several hundred feet of jointed rail :-) Obviously in the situation in the photo, the bolts sheared and the car took the last section of rail with it into the street.

Dennis


Re: Barber S-2A truck

brianehni <behni@...>
 

And if you look at this photo, you can see the wheelstops still attached to the rail under the Soo box in the middle of the street.

http://www.westernrailimages.com/Mopac/Mopac-Missouri-Pacific-Railway/7189869_rVm4j#628107397_zNNCR

Brian Ehni

--- In STMFC@..., "pullmanboss" <tgmadden@...> wrote:

The captions on other photos in the sequence say it was a runaway. The CNW boxcar ahead of the SOO car is back on the rails but shows evidence of an extended off-rail journey:

http://www.westernrailimages.com/Mopac/Mopac-Missouri-Pacific-Railway/7189869_rVm4j#628113383_wUjhH

Note the holder for the warning flag in this photo:

http://www.westernrailimages.com/Mopac/Mopac-Missouri-Pacific-Railway/7189869_rVm4j#628119359_33GbN

Tom Madden

--- In STMFC@..., "rockroll50401" <cepropst@> wrote:

That happens in our op sessions all the time. Good thing we're using models with the trucks screwed on. Now if the end of that car said 2-56 pan head.....
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@> wrote:

From SOO 137096 -- which got pushed out of a spur onto a street...
Note the stencil on the end of the car identifies the truck!

http://www.westernrailimages.com/Mopac/Mopac-Missouri-Pacific-Railway/7189869_rVm4j#628115150_7TBQy

Tim O'Connor


Re: Barber S-2A truck

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

The captions on other photos in the sequence say it was a runaway. The CNW boxcar ahead of the SOO car is back on the rails but shows evidence of an extended off-rail journey:

http://www.westernrailimages.com/Mopac/Mopac-Missouri-Pacific-Railway/7189869_rVm4j#628113383_wUjhH

Note the holder for the warning flag in this photo:

http://www.westernrailimages.com/Mopac/Mopac-Missouri-Pacific-Railway/7189869_rVm4j#628119359_33GbN

Tom Madden

--- In STMFC@..., "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...> wrote:

That happens in our op sessions all the time. Good thing we're using models with the trucks screwed on. Now if the end of that car said 2-56 pan head.....
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@> wrote:

From SOO 137096 -- which got pushed out of a spur onto a street...
Note the stencil on the end of the car identifies the truck!

http://www.westernrailimages.com/Mopac/Mopac-Missouri-Pacific-Railway/7189869_rVm4j#628115150_7TBQy

Tim O'Connor


Re: Barber S-2A truck

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

That happens in our op sessions all the time. Good thing we're using models with the trucks screwed on. Now if the end of that car said 2-56 pan head.....
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

From SOO 137096 -- which got pushed out of a spur onto a street...
Note the stencil on the end of the car identifies the truck!

http://www.westernrailimages.com/Mopac/Mopac-Missouri-Pacific-Railway/7189869_rVm4j#628115150_7TBQy

Tim O'Connor


Barber S-2A truck

Tim O'Connor
 

From SOO 137096 -- which got pushed out of a spur onto a street...
Note the stencil on the end of the car identifies the truck!

http://www.westernrailimages.com/Mopac/Mopac-Missouri-Pacific-Railway/7189869_rVm4j#628115150_7TBQy

Tim O'Connor


Western Rail Images collection

Tim O'Connor
 

I've been enjoying this Western Rail Images web site, but this
one photo really stands out for freight car interest --

http://www.westernrailimages.com/Mopac/Mopac-Missouri-Pacific-Railway/7189869_rVm4j#461773592_Vo6XK

1. A Rio Grande AAR flat loaded with brand new red farm tractors
2. A Frisco wood sheathed ice reefer
3. and a black Southern Pacific Overnight box car!

And you midwestern modelers thought you could get away without
having any Overnight cars on your layouts.. :-)

Tim O'Connor


Re: Drawing or tracing lettering (was FGEX/WFEX Questions

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Oh, darn!! Looks like I need to learn to use another software.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., jerryglow@... wrote:

CorelDraw (and I'd suspect Adobe Illustrator) are well used in the graphics industry. I've had decals made (from 2 different manufacturers plus the ALPS on my own), had vinyl cut, a namesign for my house CNCed, and laser work done all from Corel outputted files.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@> wrote:

Dennis,
Thanks for the reference to the equipment diagram and the tips about Adobe Illustrator and Corel Draw. Many years ago a friend showed me how to use the scale features of Corel Draw.

Gene

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@> wrote:

My preferred method for creating lettering is CAD. There is greater precision than with any other method. (Yes, some equal CAD's precision but not exceed it.)
Gene,

Take a look at:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-frt/12-D-97.GIF

It will give you the correct letter sizes and placement, but not the correct letterform, since they were doodled on the drawing.

Illustrator type software such as Adobe Illustrator or Coral Draw rival true CAD systems in accuracy, since they draw vector images over the raster original of the photo. The main advantage of illustrator type software over CAD is that the illustrator software gives you more control over line weights, and it geared more toward outputting text. Cad software will draw the shape you need. but will not interface well with the decal maker's output device.


Re: Drawing or tracing lettering (was FGEX/WFEX Questions

jerryglow2
 

CorelDraw (and I'd suspect Adobe Illustrator) are well used in the graphics industry. I've had decals made (from 2 different manufacturers plus the ALPS on my own), had vinyl cut, a namesign for my house CNCed, and laser work done all from Corel outputted files.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

Dennis,
Thanks for the reference to the equipment diagram and the tips about Adobe Illustrator and Corel Draw. Many years ago a friend showed me how to use the scale features of Corel Draw.

Gene

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@> wrote:

My preferred method for creating lettering is CAD. There is greater precision than with any other method. (Yes, some equal CAD's precision but not exceed it.)
Gene,

Take a look at:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-frt/12-D-97.GIF

It will give you the correct letter sizes and placement, but not the correct letterform, since they were doodled on the drawing.

Illustrator type software such as Adobe Illustrator or Coral Draw rival true CAD systems in accuracy, since they draw vector images over the raster original of the photo. The main advantage of illustrator type software over CAD is that the illustrator software gives you more control over line weights, and it geared more toward outputting text. Cad software will draw the shape you need. but will not interface well with the decal maker's output device.


Re: Sunshine Models at Timonum

tmolsen@...
 

Tim,

Check it out Tim, as I am sure that Martin would sell a ton of kits there. It was he that told me that they said that they could not guarantee tables. You would think that if they wanted him to come, then they would have bent over backwards to assure him that they had him covered.

I had a similar problem with the Deveraux hotel in Malvern two years ago when trying to reserve a room with a roll-paway for myself and two friends for the RPM-East. I was told that they could not rent the room with over two people as the local fire code prohibited it. Well, this year I checked with the Lower Whiteland Twp code inspector and then went back to the hotel to reserve a room for the three of us. There was no such code and the hotel reserved the room as I had requested. The only difference was that the rate was higher for the third person plus the rollaway, but the higher cost for two nights was still lower than what the special rate was with the taxes added when split three ways. Obviously, the person who refused the first time, two years ago, did not know what they were talking about!

Regards,

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware


Re: Drawing or tracing lettering (was FGEX/WFEX Questions

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Dennis,
Thanks for the reference to the equipment diagram and the tips about Adobe Illustrator and Corel Draw. Many years ago a friend showed me how to use the scale features of Corel Draw.

Gene

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@> wrote:

My preferred method for creating lettering is CAD. There is greater precision than with any other method. (Yes, some equal CAD's precision but not exceed it.)
Gene,

Take a look at:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-frt/12-D-97.GIF

It will give you the correct letter sizes and placement, but not the correct letterform, since they were doodled on the drawing.

Illustrator type software such as Adobe Illustrator or Coral Draw rival true CAD systems in accuracy, since they draw vector images over the raster original of the photo. The main advantage of illustrator type software over CAD is that the illustrator software gives you more control over line weights, and it geared more toward outputting text. Cad software will draw the shape you need. but will not interface well with the decal maker's output device.


Re: Sunshine Models at Timonum

Tim O'Connor
 

Tom, I'm sure someone who didn't know him said that to him, but
I can tell you they have quite a bit of planning flexibility and
many new displays and vendors appear each year. The first year
with Free-Mo they offered us a small 12' slot, but the next
year they offered us (for nothing BTW) about 100' linear feet
of display (about 400+ sq ft). I can ask Bob Buck about it; I'm
sure he'd want to talk to Martin directly.

There's also display space (two tables) for "Prototype Modelers"
which has been hijacked by a model railroad club for the last few
years...

Tim O'Connor

At 2/7/2010 02:24 AM Sunday, you wrote:
Tim,

The reason the Martin has never attended the West Springfield show comes down to one thing: They cannot promise to have a table for him!

The Amherst group has been after him to come to West Springfield meet for quite a number of years. He advised them that they would have to guarantee him tables due to his coming from Missouri.

Their response has and continues to be that he first must attend and be on the table stand-by list and if a scheduled vendor does not appear, then whosoever is next in line awaiting a table will get it. Only then can a new vendor get a table each year. He told them that under those circumstances, there is no way that he can make that trip east without accommodations at the meet.

Regards,
Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...


Re: Drawing or tracing lettering (was FGEX/WFEX Questions

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

My preferred method for creating lettering is CAD. There is greater precision than with any other method. (Yes, some equal CAD's precision but not exceed it.)
Gene,

Take a look at:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-frt/12-D-97.GIF

It will give you the correct letter sizes and placement, but not the correct letterform, since they were doodled on the drawing.

Illustrator type software such as Adobe Illustrator or Coral Draw rival true CAD systems in accuracy, since they draw vector images over the raster original of the photo. The main advantage of illustrator type software over CAD is that the illustrator software gives you more control over line weights, and it geared more toward outputting text. Cad software will draw the shape you need. but will not interface well with the decal maker's output device.


Re: Sunshine website - Stan Rydarowicz page

Dennis Williams
 

Looks great, Jim.  Now I have the photos. 
Dennis
Dennis Williams
Munhall, Pa.
www.resinbuilders4u.com

--- On Sun, 2/7/10, Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@...> wrote:


From: Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Sunshine website - Stan Rydarowicz page
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, February 7, 2010, 11:41 AM


 



I've added a page for Stan Rydarowicz's reefer kits, a listing of Stan's
resin/Intermountain kitbash kits with prices and links to one or two photos.

To view it go to the LINKS page then click on RESIN PARTS/STAN RYDAROWICZ.

Stan, like Martin Lofton, does not have a computer so I offered to create
this page for him. I've only been working on it, off and on (mostly off),
for more than a year.

I have half a dozen of his kits and like them.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits. com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Sunshine website - Stan Rydarowicz page

Jim Hayes
 

I've added a page for Stan Rydarowicz's reefer kits, a listing of Stan's
resin/Intermountain kitbash kits with prices and links to one or two photos.

To view it go to the LINKS page then click on RESIN PARTS/STAN RYDAROWICZ.

Stan, like Martin Lofton, does not have a computer so I offered to create
this page for him. I've only been working on it, off and on (mostly off),
for more than a year.

I have half a dozen of his kits and like them.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Drawing or tracing lettering (was FGEX/WFEX Questions

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

My preferred method for creating lettering is CAD. There is greater precision than with any other method. (Yes, some equal CAD's precision but not exceed it.) I have had the opportunity to trace lettering on cars for my favorite railroad. I literally trace it 1 to 1 with tracing paper and then draw with CAD. A full size print out is placed under the tracing paper to find where minor adjustments are needed. With a little tweaking I have "perfect" lettering including spacing between letters.

Can anyone tell me what the height of the letters in VENTILATOR AND REFRIGERATOR should be on the FGEX car in the 3 photos?

Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., jerryglow@... wrote:

For what he could sell, it's probably not worth his time. I know what it takes, I've created TTF fonts from tracings but don't worry about kerning because I use CorelDraw which lets me space letters at will. One of the primary rules is to know what size letters are supposed to be in each location then, working in scale, adjust them accordingly. I can even streach or narrow letters as I go. I usually work over a picture but wouldn't think of using bitmap graphics for my output. The biggest complaint against computer fonts is the misuse by someone not knowing a few basic rules and skills.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., richtownsend@ wrote:

I tried to interest Benn Coifman at Railfonts in it several years ago, and sent him photos showing all the letter variations I was aware of, but it appears he is not interested in doing the font. Maybe if there was a groundswell of interest from modelers he might do it .....


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
I can see why; it's a pretty ugly typeface. One of the problems Mr. Coifmann faces is that he works the letterforms into a true font; complete with proper kerning and specifically adjusted "kerning pairs" (such as AV) so you can use the font to type correspondence if you wanted to. For our purposes you don't need a font, all you need is a graphic of the lettering as it is displayed on the car side. With the material in these three photos:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-frt/fgex14815jpa.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-frt/fgex14815jpb.jpg
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/misc-frt/fgex14815jpc.jpg

You should be able to trace over the lettering in Coral Draw or whatever and come up with acceptable art for decals.

Dennis


Re: Sunshine Models at Timonum

tmolsen@...
 

Tim,

The reason the Martin has never attended the West Springfield show comes down to one thing: They cannot promise to have a table for him!

The Amherst group has been after him to come to West Springfield meet for quite a number of years. He advised them that they would have to guarantee him tables due to his coming from Missouri.

Their response has and continues to be that he first must attend and be on the table stand-by list and if a scheduled vendor does not appear, then whosoever is next in line awaiting a table will get it. Only then can a new vendor get a table each year. He told them that under those circumstances, there is no way that he can make that trip east without accommodations at the meet.

Regards,
Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...

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