Date   

Re: Tichy freight cars

byronrose@...
 

On Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:04:30 -0500 "Tim O'Connor"
<timoconnor@mediaone.net> writes:

But IMO the Tichy USRA hopper is a thing of beauty, the reefers are
very nice, and the Brownhoist crane is simply amazing.
While I agree with you on the crane, I can't get past the two widened
center panels of the hopper car, and that one's on Don, not Bill.

The crane is a absolute thing of beauty. I'd give anything for a similar
kit of a 200-250 ton late steam crane with that same level of detail.
Asking for working outriggers would be too much to ask for, but it sure
would be the icing on the cake wouldn't it. The error that Bill Gould
committed with the crane was purely financial; while it was reasonable
to expect some modelers to buy 2 or 3 or 5 revenue cars, how many would
buy more than one crane? Especially one with thousand of teeny-tiny
parts? Hmm, I guess that 250 ton crane would need millions of parts
then, wouldn't it?

BSR
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Re: Ancient Tank Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Allen, I haven't yet had time to put together data for a "plain Jane" tank
car decal set, but I do have one piece of good news, which is that Ron
Sebastian at Des Plaines Hobbies in Illinois is reported to have authentic
GATX letters and numbers in digital form. I haven't been able to contact
him directly, but I will do so early next week. As I understand it, he can
supply this material on a computer disc. More later.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


ACL K-7... easier question

ted_culotta@...
 

Since it appears that there are no 1940's era photos of these in
anybody's possession, here is an easier question. Does anyone know
whether these cars were black, box car red, or both and if both, at
what timeframe was the change made? To refresh the memory, these are
the low-side ACL gons modeled by F&C and Ertl (although incorrectly
in the case of Ertl, I seem to remember hearing).

Thanks.

Ted Culotta


Re: Tichy freight cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

Byron Rose wrote

The postscript to this is that every once in a while I wander into a
little hobby shop tucked away in the corner of some small town and
there's half dozen Gould kits just sitting in the shelf gathering dust.
Well, maybe one shop, but it was within the last 2-3 years.
Well, I just want it known for the record that it was an assembled and
painted Tichy PFE reefer that rekindled my long dormant interest in
fine scale modeling about 11-12 years ago. At that time there was no
Proto2000, Sunshine, Intermountain, or Red Caboose, and Walthers only
offered recycled Train Miniature kits.

Come to think of it, I don't think I bought any Tichy kits from that
hobby shop (the Orange Caboose in Maynard MA, now closed) since he was
asking list price for them...

But IMO the Tichy USRA hopper is a thing of beauty, the reefers are
very nice, and the Brownhoist crane is simply amazing.

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: Overland tank car

Richard Hendrickson
 

So was this a model of a ICC-104 type car or something else? I've never
grasped an understanding of the differences in this car classification.
That's because it's difficult to grasp; Chris Barkan and I have
communicated at some length about this and come to the conclusion that the
only difference between insulated ARA-III/ICC-103 tank cars and ARA
IV/ICC-104 tank cars was that the IV/104s were built with insulation. So
you can take your choice; in the steam era there was no essential
difference in specifications, safety valves, etc.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: M&StL cars

Tim O'Connor <timoconnor@...>
 

I have one more request. I'm trying to get Kadee to do the M&StL 40'
and 50' PS1's, but they are hung up on what shade of red to use on the
car sides. They want a photo of the cars when they were newish. Can
anyone help me, please.
Clark, I am certain they were the same color red as was used on
M&StL locomotives at that time. There are plenty of color photos
of the engines.

There is a good b/w photo of one of the 2700 series PS-1 boxcars
in Volume 20, #3 of the C&NW Hist Soc magazine. If Kadee needs a
lettering guide, that is...

Timothy O'Connor <timoconnor@mediaone.net>
Marlborough, Massachusetts


Re: Overland tank car

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

AC&F built a number of cars for SHPX in the late 1930s which were dead
ringers for the model except that they did not have platforms and
railings. Some were leased to Matheson and assigned to caustic soda
service.

I'm led to understand caustic soda was commonly used in canneries for
cleaning. Dunno about a whole carload tho....

So was this a model of a ICC-104 type car or something else? I've never
grasped an understanding of the differences in this car classification.

Dave Nelson


Re: Prototype Modelers Seminar Report?

Jeff Aley - GCD PE <jaley@...>
 

On Mar 12, 7:29pm, Benjamin Hom wrote:
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Prototype Modelers Seminar Report?
Jeff Aley wrote:

"Certainly UP supports STEAM-ERA history better than any other existing
Class 1 [partially on-topic]."

So long as it's UP's OWN steam-era history! You don't see a whole lot
of
history about C&NW, M-K-T, MP, WP, or SP, except the odd reference to
them
in the names of UP's vintage passenger car fleet.
True enough. But my statement still stands. Though the UP does not
preserve history as well as the Smithsonian Institution, they do a better
job than the other Class 1 railroads.

Regards,

-Jeff

--
Jeff Aley, Development Engineer jaley@pcocd2.intel.com
Graphics Components Division
Intel Corporation, Folsom, CA
(916) 356-3533


Re: M&StL cars

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Richard,
Unfortunately the jpeg didn't transfer in the group format. Could you please
send
it to my e-mail address. I'm curious to see how badly I've screwed the model
up!
cepropst@rconnect.com
I appreciate your effort,
Clark

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Clark, here's the scan of the M&StL stock car. The print was greatly
enlarged from a small part of a negative in Stan Kistler's collection, so
it leaves a lot to be desired, but anything's better than nothing. I hope
it proves helpful.

----------

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520




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Re: M&StL cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

Clark, here's the scan of the M&StL stock car. The print was greatly
enlarged from a small part of a negative in Stan Kistler's collection, so
it leaves a lot to be desired, but anything's better than nothing. I hope
it proves helpful.

----------

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: UTLX tank cars

byronrose@...
 

On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:50:34 -0800 Richard Hendrickson
<rhendrickson@opendoor.com> writes:

<snip>

As
for kits like the Gould/Tichy cars, with all those little pieces
that have
to be assembled and then - saints preserve us! - painted and
lettered, I
happened to be in a large hobby shop in Southern Calif. when the
Gould tank
car first came out. A modeler whose name is still regarded with
great
reverence by the NMRA crowd came into the store to see what was new
and the
owner handed him a Gould tank car kit. He opened the box, looked at
all
those itty bitty styrene parts, blanched visibly, and blurted out,
"Oh, I
could never build anything like that!" That was a long time ago,
but, if
anything, there are more "model railroaders" like him today than
there ever
were.
The postscript to this is that every once in a while I wander into a
little hobby shop tucked away in the corner of some small town and
there's half dozen Gould kits just sitting in the shelf gathering dust.
Well, maybe one shop, but it was within the last 2-3 years.

BSR
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Re: Overland tank car

Richard Hendrickson
 

-----Original Message-----
Dave, if you'll e-mail me the details of your modeling location and era, I
can probably send you scans of several likely prototypes. But finding
lettering for some of them may be a challenge! I've got at least one of
the models, too, so maybe we can either brainstorm decal sources or get
some decals made which will do the job.
I bounce back and forth between 2 dates: 1944 and 1950. I bounce back &
forth between 2 locations: WP west of Oroville (right now I'm thinking
Oakland, perhaps to Niles) and DRGW east of Salt Lake (centered on the
Geneva Mill near Provo). Either way some representation of the steel
industry will be included.
I'm having a little trouble following the bouncing ball, here, but you've
at least given me a ball-park era and region.

AC&F built a number of cars for SHPX in the late 1930s which were dead
ringers for the model except that they did not have platforms and railings.
Some were leased to Matheson and assigned to caustic soda service. SHPX
also had 8K gal. insulated Type 27s with platforms and railings built in
the late '30s/early '40s which were leased to DuPont and used for things
like Formaldehyde and Nylon Salts, though these were ICC-203s with
different safety valves than are on the model. The DuPont cars had black
u/fs and bottom sheathing, light gray upper sheathing and domes, and
red/white oval DuPont logos.

ICC-104s without dome platforms wre built in the early 1940s for Warren,
but I rather doubt that Warren was shipping gasoline to the west coast
(though their ICC-105 propane cars certainly made it to the Bay Area).

I can send you JPEGs of any or all of the above if you're interested.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


M&StL cars

Clark Propst <cepropst@...>
 

Thank you Richard,

I would very much like it if you could scan the 72017 for me. When I
said my photos of these cars were in-consist I meant in-consist. Like a
going away shot of a train with a stock car three or four cars up from
the caboose! My father was an engineer for the railroad, his rule #1
was "never put a stock car next to the crummy".

I'm thinking the URTX reefers were rebuilt in 1955. They were first
painted with 'The Peoria Gateway' slogan, then some were repainted in
the post 56 scheme.

I have one more request. I'm trying to get Kadee to do the M&StL 40'
and 50' PS1's, but they are hung up on what shade of red to use on the
car sides. They want a photo of the cars when they were newish. Can
anyone help me, please.

Thanks again,
Clark


Re: Email address change

Richard Hendrickson
 

To communicate with me, please start using the following email
address in place of any old ones you may have for me.

ted_culotta@yahoo.com
Roger that. Good to see you this weekend. Come visit us in Ashland.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: random questions

Richard Hendrickson
 

Because I was out of town over the weekend, I'm a bit late getting to this
particular party, but I do want to add a couple of notes to Byron Rose's
insightful and very useful comments. Byron is a superb modeler with vast
experience, so his advice is well worth taking seriously. At the same
time, we need to bear in mind that Byron models freight cars as highly
detailed static display models, the way other people model aircraft, ships,
motor vehicles, and such, which sometimes leads to a "take no prisoners"
approach. Those of us who build models to operate on layouts or dioramas
may feel that .008 grab irons and .007 X .020 brass sill steps are a bit
over the top, and simply too fragile to use on models that must sometimes
be handled and may even (perish the thought!) get derailed. (Please note
that in saying this I am NOT arguing that operating highly detailed rolling
stock models on a layout is a waste of time or that freight cars will break
and shed pieces unless all the details are oversize and molded on a la
Model Die Casting; I have no sympathy with those who argue that models are
good enough if they look okay from three feet away or who can't get a well
detailed model on the track without breaking it.)

In light of the above, I unrepentantly admit that I routinely use oversize
wire grab irons and A-line steps, I don't model brake rigging and other
underbody detail unless it's visible in profile, I leave the uncoupling
rods on my couplers because the staging tracks on my diorama mandate
magnetic uncoupling, and make some other minor compromises in the interest
of durability and reliable operation. I can only hope that Byron doesn't
turn out to be the gatekeeper at the model railroad equivalent of Valhalla.

By the way, Byron, it's easy to make sharp corners in A-line steps without
breaking them. I hit 'em with a quick jolt from my resistance soldering
tweezers until they glow a little, then plunge them into water. Thus
annealed, they can be bent into any shape you want. Just don't overdo it;
too much juice for too long will melt (or, in the extreme case, vaporize)
them.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Re: Overland tank car

Dave & Libby Nelson <muskoka@...>
 

-----Original Message-----
Dave, if you'll e-mail me the details of your modeling location and era, I
can probably send you scans of several likely prototypes. But finding
lettering for some of them may be a challenge! I've got at least one of
the models, too, so maybe we can either brainstorm decal sources or get
some decals made which will do the job.
I bounce back and forth between 2 dates: 1944 and 1950. I bounce back &
forth between 2 locations: WP west of Oroville (right now I'm thinking
Oakland, perhaps to Niles) and DRGW east of Salt Lake (centered on the
Geneva Mill near Provo). Either way some representation of the steel
industry will be included.

In 1950, WP handled a daily average of 5 carloads of chemicals, 6 each for
Gas & diesel fuels, 1 for gas, 4 for edible oils, and 3 for ammonium sulfate
(probably boxcars). In Oakland there was one large electrical goods mfgr who
made transformers, which if they're talking about those on utility poles,
would have been filled with chemicals.

DRGW wasn't that different, maybe 7 cars/day of chemicals.

Dave Nelson


New Haven 17000-17274

ted@...
 

In 1937, the NH built these 75 flat cars at their Readville shops
using welded underframes furnished by Bethlehem. Does anyone have
any information, drawings, etc. for these underframes? The only
photo I can find of a Bethlehem welded underframe is in the 1940 CBC
and it's too short. Maybe some other roads used similar underframes
for their own purposes or received built up cars with welded
underframes of a similar size. The cars were 52'6" over the pulling
surfaces, 50'0" over striking plates, 49'3-1/4" over the end sills,
39'0" over truck centers, 5'8" wheel base, 9'2-1/2" between side
sills (deck width) and 10'2-1/2" over the stake pockets. Many of you
may know these cars as some were modified in the early 1940's for
TOFC service. Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Re: Overland tank car

Richard Hendrickson
 

Tim O'Connor wrote, in response to Dave Nelson's inquiry:

Figuring out prototypes for Overland tank cars isn't easy! But
I think this -type- of car could be used for asphalt, or perhaps
caustic soda (lye), or coal tar, or gasoline. I bought several of
those ACF cars when they were available at 80 bucks or less. Quite
a bargain compared to the newest stuff!
Figuring it out ain't easy because most of the models in that series were
generic. However, Tim's right that the kit Dave is asking about
represented insulated ICC-103/104s, and the dimensions are right for AC&F
Type 27s. Most of the prototypes didn't have the dome platforms and
railings (though it would be a simple matter, of course, to unsolder and
remove those), but SHPX received a bunch of cars with the platforms and
railings in the late 1930s and '40s which they leased to DuPont, Matheson,
and similar chemical mfrs. (most had different safety valves than those on
the model, however), and some private owners got them as well.

Dave, if you'll e-mail me the details of your modeling location and era, I
can probably send you scans of several likely prototypes. But finding
lettering for some of them may be a challenge! I've got at least one of
the models, too, so maybe we can either brainstorm decal sources or get
some decals made which will do the job.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520


Email address change

ted@...
 

To communicate with me, please start using the following email
address in place of any old ones you may have for me.

ted_culotta@yahoo.com

Sorry for the wasted bandwidth.

Regards,
Ted Culotta


Re: UTLX tank cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

1 Tichey has had his tank car on the market for 15-20 years and never
did sell very many of them because of an unfortunate choice of
unprototypical accuracy. He also does his own tooling on the cheap and
I'll bet you he still hasn't recouped his out-of-pocket on that kit. He
sells the underframes relatively cheap to get something out of it, but
since he doesn't have much in to begin with, they're cheap. Probably
cheaper than the Chinese would charge.
Byron is essentially right about this (aas about the other practical issues
involved in producing and marketing tank car parts), but, just for the
record, let's correct his oversimplification of history here. The
now-Tichy tank car was originally tooled by Bill Gould, whose knowledge of
prototype history was as defective as his die-making skills were superb.
(And, just to make sure blame goes where it should, even at this late date,
Gould was egged on by Bob Hundman who then, when the nonexistence of the
prototype was pointed out, tried to rewrite history rather than admit he
was wrong). Gould made some other unfortunate choices of prototypes to
model, sales of his kits fell far short of his expectations, and he
eventually sold all the tooling for the Gould kits to Tichy, who has
produced them ever since. No way to know what Tichy paid for Gould's
tooling, but it's a pretty safe bet that he paid a lot less than it cost to
produce, and probably a whole lot less than it would take to duplicate it
today.

Those of us who are into building kits (especially resin kits), kitbashing,
etc. are prone to forget how few of us there are, and what a miniscule
market we constitute for manufacturers. I have it on good authority that
the Life-Like and Intermountain built-ups go out the front door as fast as
they come in the back door while the kits languish on dealers' shelves. As
for kits like the Gould/Tichy cars, with all those little pieces that have
to be assembled and then - saints preserve us! - painted and lettered, I
happened to be in a large hobby shop in Southern Calif. when the Gould tank
car first came out. A modeler whose name is still regarded with great
reverence by the NMRA crowd came into the store to see what was new and the
owner handed him a Gould tank car kit. He opened the box, looked at all
those itty bitty styrene parts, blanched visibly, and blurted out, "Oh, I
could never build anything like that!" That was a long time ago, but, if
anything, there are more "model railroaders" like him today than there ever
were.

Richard H. Hendrickson
Ashland, Oregon 97520

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