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Re: Bowser PRR X31b 61321
FRANK PEACOCK
John, PRR 61321 is listed in the 10/47 ORER as an XAP car, "equipped with racks for stowing automobile parts". Don't know when it was changed back to XM. FHP (Frank H. Peacock)
To: STMFC@... From: smithbf@... Date: Wed, 17 Feb 2010 08:35:21 -0600 Subject: Re: [STMFC] Bowser PRR X31b 61321 On Feb 16, 2010, at 9:30 PM, john66h wrote: Here's another one that has been on the shelf for a while... A Bowser X31b, PRR 61321. According to my notes, 61321 is an XM in the Jan. 1953 ORER. On the model, there is the following lettering: OEC Return Empty to PRR Midvale Philadelphia. Can anyone tell me what this lettering is for? Some type of assigned service? If it is for assigned service is it incorrect lettering for an XM car circa '52-'53? Thanks, John Hile John, Yes, this lettering denotes assigned service, most likely to Midvale Steel of Philadelphia. The X31B was a general service car, much like the X31A, except of course for the flush roof and a few other minor variations. Since Midvale did make automobile parts, it is possible that this car is in that service. The XM designation would seem to indicate that it was not equipped with any specialized racks or loading systems, although I don't have my ORER handy to check the notes section to see if it did. In case like this with specific lettering Bowser often takes the lettering from a photo, so it is most likely correct. BTW, if you're interested in improving/correcting the Bowser model, the PRRPro Yahoo group did the X31s as a project in the not too distant past and there is plenty of info in the group archives on these cars. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2 "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield." __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0 _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/ [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Bowser PRR X31b 61321
Benjamin Hom
John Hile asked:
"A Bowser X31b, PRR 61321. According to my notes, 61321 is an XM in the Jan. 1953 ORER. On the model, there is the following lettering: OEC Return Empty to PRR Midvale Philadelphia. Can anyone tell me what this lettering is for? Some type of assigned service? If it is for assigned service is it incorrect lettering for an XM car circa '52-'53?" Bruce Smith replied: "Yes, this lettering denotes assigned service, most likely to Midvale Steel of Philadelphia. The X31B was a general service car, much like the X31A, except of course for the flush roof and a few other minor variations. Since Midvale did make automobile parts, it is possible that this car is in that service. The XM designation would seem to indicate that it was not equipped with any specialized racks or loading systems, although I don't have my ORER handy to check the notes section to see if it did." A check of the January 1945, July 1950, and January 1955 ORERs show a mix of XM, XML, and XMP in the 61102-62799 car series. However, 61321 is not called out in any of these ORER issues as an XML in auto parts service or XMP in other assigned service. Bruce added: "In case like this with specific lettering Bowser often takes the lettering from a photo, so it is most likely correct." True; however, I suspect that Bowser, to make different car numbers available, pulled car numbers from the 61102-62799 series without checking the notes section of the ORER for cars assigned to auto parts service. To be fair, most folks wouldn't notice unless they went through the notes section of the ORER. John, if this really bothers you, you can always paint out the "Return When Empty" lettering after you weather the model to represent a car reassigned to general service. The number and composition of cars in assigned service can vary from year to year, and it wasn't unusual for cars to be bumped from auto parts to general service by removing parts racks or special handling equipment if they became surplus or, in the case of the X31 and X32 subclasses, obsolescent through the 1950s. Ben Hom
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Re: Bowser PRR X31b 61321
On Feb 16, 2010, at 9:30 PM, john66h wrote:
Here's another one that has been on the shelf for a while...John, Yes, this lettering denotes assigned service, most likely to Midvale Steel of Philadelphia. The X31B was a general service car, much like the X31A, except of course for the flush roof and a few other minor variations. Since Midvale did make automobile parts, it is possible that this car is in that service. The XM designation would seem to indicate that it was not equipped with any specialized racks or loading systems, although I don't have my ORER handy to check the notes section to see if it did. In case like this with specific lettering Bowser often takes the lettering from a photo, so it is most likely correct. BTW, if you're interested in improving/correcting the Bowser model, the PRRPro Yahoo group did the X31s as a project in the not too distant past and there is plenty of info in the group archives on these cars. Regards Bruce Bruce F. Smith Auburn, AL http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2 "Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield." __ / \ __<+--+>________________\__/___ ________________________________ |- ______/ O O \_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ | | / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 \ | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__|| |/_____________________________\|_|________________________________| | O--O \0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0
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Re: PFE R-40-14 UP Herald
Dick Harley
For those considering making an R-40-14 or R-40-20 PFE reefer, the InterMountain R-40-10 kit is a much better starting point than their R-40-23, in my opinion. Unfortunately, InterMountain seems to have a mind all their own when it comes to decorating their products. (How else do you explain an R-40-23 body decorated as an Express BR-40-10, when you also have the R-40-10 body?) Some days they listen to inputs - some days they don't.
The reasons for my choice of the R-40-10 as a starting point are: 1) Door height and location of the door drip guard. The R-40-23 is noticeably higher, especially the drip guard. 2) Underframe - the -10, -14 and -20 were all riveted. The -23 was welded. 3) Grab irons - the R-40-10 already has the bracket grabs, as did the -14 and -20. 4) Car width - the -10, -14 and -20 were all 9'-5". The -23 was 9'-8+" 5) Truck centers - maybe a toss-up here. The -10 was 30'-8-1/2". The -14 and -20 were 30'-11". The -23 was 31'-2-3/4". Regarding the Champ Decal's UP medallions, the 42" are fairly decent, but the 1946 45" medallion has the wrong style lettering and is the wrong shape. Microscale MC-4021 has the correct UP 42" medallions for the 1936 to 1946 time period - both "Overland" and non-Overland (drawn from the UP drawings). Microscale 87-414 has a pretty good 1946 UP 45" medallion. Whether any of them will cover any factory lettering is problematic, since many factory UP medallions are the wrong size and/or shape. Drawings for all of those medallions exist and can be used by those who care to make correct UP medallions. With a lot of luck, the Microscale PFE decals will be substantially upgraded this year. (Yeah, I know, you've heard that before.) I'll defer to Paul Lyons on knowledge gleaned from PFE car cards. I have collected copies of a bunch of them, but have yet to sit down and analyze them. Cheers, Dick Harley Laguna Beach, CA
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Bowser PRR X31b 61321
John Hile
Here's another one that has been on the shelf for a while...
A Bowser X31b, PRR 61321. According to my notes, 61321 is an XM in the Jan. 1953 ORER. On the model, there is the following lettering: OEC Return Empty to PRR Midvale Philadelphia. Can anyone tell me what this lettering is for? Some type of assigned service? If it is for assigned service is it incorrect lettering for an XM car circa '52-'53? Thanks, John Hile
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Re: Kadee Scale Coupler Operational Reliablity
thomas christensen
--- In STMFC@..., Denny Anspach <danspach@...> wrote:
Group, Moloco has several coupler boxes that should be of interest to this group. They are detailed and appear semi-scale, although I have not yet seen them. Tom Christensen
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Re: PFE R-40-14 UP Herald
WILLIAM PARDIE
I have the same kit for the R-40-20 on my shelf that John has and periodically ponder what to do with it. So far
all I have done was purchase a set of proper ends for the R-40-20 from Stan Rydowski (Hope I got that right). I'm interested if anyone else has done anything with tis car. Bill Pardie
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Re: PFE R-40-14 UP Herald
Paul Lyons
Before someone "jumps" on me R-30-9 NOT R-30-12!
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Paul Lyons
-----Original Message-----
From: cobrapsl@... To: STMFC@... Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:34 pm Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: PFE R-40-14 UP Herald John, PFE expert Tony Thompson is vacationing in New Zealand, so let me jump in here as sort of a groupie on PFE matters to him and Dick Harley. Although, I do not have, nor seen, the car cards for the two aluminmum R-40-14's, which would show the repaint dates, I have looked at many of the cards for all classes of PFE reefers and most cars were repainted at least once between 1947 and 1951. It is amazing how concentrated the effort was during this time frame. I have only found one wooden R-30-12 that made it to 1951 in original paint. So, the chance that one of these "high profile" cars making it all the way to 1952 without being re-painted is probably a million to one shot. Never say never, but I doubt it! Paul Lyons Laguna NIguel, CA -----Original Message----- From: john66h <john66h@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:14 pm Subject: [STMFC] Re: PFE R-40-14 UP Herald Thanks all. I asked about the R-40-14 shield because on my shelf (for many years) has been an Intermountain R-40-23 kit, factory numbered and lettered as an R-40-20 and also sporting an Overland shield! I'm finally getting around to assessing what (if anything) can be done to make it a suitable model, ca. 1952-53. It appears a possible option for this kit is to convert it into an R-40-14. Install Details West round-corner Dreadnaught ends, appropriate appliances, remove the Preco mechanical fan detail, and then change the number and class lettering, retaining the bulk of the factory lettering. IIRC, only two R-40-14's are listed in the Jan. 1953 ORER as being equipped w/fans...electric. All of the R-40-20's are shown as fan-equipped, and I assume were repainted in later schemes when the fans were applied. With this in mind, is it appropriate to think an R-40-14 could still be wearing original paint and lettering ca. 1952-53? I do have a pair of Champ red, white, and blue non-Overland shields, but have not compared the size to see if one of these will cover the factory-applied Overland shield. Perhaps a renumber to 45000 is the way to go (to be assured of the shield type) and then use the Champ decal. John Hile [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: PFE R-40-14 UP Herald
Paul Lyons
John,
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
PFE expert Tony Thompson is vacationing in New Zealand, so let me jump in here as sort of a groupie on PFE matters to him and Dick Harley. Although, I do not have, nor seen, the car cards for the two aluminmum R-40-14's, which would show the repaint dates, I have looked at many of the cards for all classes of PFE reefers and most cars were repainted at least once between 1947 and 1951. It is amazing how concentrated the effort was during this time frame. I have only found one wooden R-30-12 that made it to 1951 in original paint. So, the chance that one of these "high profile" cars making it all the way to 1952 without being re-painted is probably a million to one shot. Never say never, but I doubt it! Paul Lyons Laguna NIguel, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: john66h <john66h@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Mon, Feb 15, 2010 7:14 pm Subject: [STMFC] Re: PFE R-40-14 UP Herald Thanks all. I asked about the R-40-14 shield because on my shelf (for many years) has been an Intermountain R-40-23 kit, factory numbered and lettered as an R-40-20 and also sporting an Overland shield! I'm finally getting around to assessing what (if anything) can be done to make it a suitable model, ca. 1952-53. It appears a possible option for this kit is to convert it into an R-40-14. Install Details West round-corner Dreadnaught ends, appropriate appliances, remove the Preco mechanical fan detail, and then change the number and class lettering, retaining the bulk of the factory lettering. IIRC, only two R-40-14's are listed in the Jan. 1953 ORER as being equipped w/fans...electric. All of the R-40-20's are shown as fan-equipped, and I assume were repainted in later schemes when the fans were applied. With this in mind, is it appropriate to think an R-40-14 could still be wearing original paint and lettering ca. 1952-53? I do have a pair of Champ red, white, and blue non-Overland shields, but have not compared the size to see if one of these will cover the factory-applied Overland shield. Perhaps a renumber to 45000 is the way to go (to be assured of the shield type) and then use the Champ decal. John Hile [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: PFE R-40-14 UP Herald
John Hile
Thanks all.
I asked about the R-40-14 shield because on my shelf (for many years) has been an Intermountain R-40-23 kit, factory numbered and lettered as an R-40-20 and also sporting an Overland shield! I'm finally getting around to assessing what (if anything) can be done to make it a suitable model, ca. 1952-53. It appears a possible option for this kit is to convert it into an R-40-14. Install Details West round-corner Dreadnaught ends, appropriate appliances, remove the Preco mechanical fan detail, and then change the number and class lettering, retaining the bulk of the factory lettering. IIRC, only two R-40-14's are listed in the Jan. 1953 ORER as being equipped w/fans...electric. All of the R-40-20's are shown as fan-equipped, and I assume were repainted in later schemes when the fans were applied. With this in mind, is it appropriate to think an R-40-14 could still be wearing original paint and lettering ca. 1952-53? I do have a pair of Champ red, white, and blue non-Overland shields, but have not compared the size to see if one of these will cover the factory-applied Overland shield. Perhaps a renumber to 45000 is the way to go (to be assured of the shield type) and then use the Champ decal. John Hile
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SMMW's next HO kit will be ...
Jim King
While I gather info to create new SR wood caboose patterns, info already on
hand (thanks to the SRHA) for the SR 60000-series 50' gon will be used to create the next HO kit. This car was built in 1953 and ran well into the 80s in revenue service and late 90s in MOW service. They wore Roman lettering when built but are most widely recognized for the block lettering hauling lime and other bulk commodities. A few even had the "O" in SOUTHERN filled in with a green dot. A photo of this car will be posted on my web site under "future projects" shortly. The kit will be constructed per my usual process: 3D CAD-generated files, SLA patterns, 1-pc resin body with separate underframe, hidden brass weight, trucks, Kadee #58 couplers, decals and detail parts. Instructions will be full-color, highly detailed step by step .. on a mini-CD. This will be my first HO kit since getting back into the scale late last year. Shipments are targeted to start mid-April, so don't delay getting your prepaid order sent in (or wired). Price is $45 each. Discounts are available if you buy 3-5 (10%) or 6+ (15%). Add $7 shipping per order, regardless of quantity. Paid orders being accepted now. Send payment via check, money order or PayPal (add 3.5% to the total, including postage, to cover their fee to me). Contact me off-list to order and/or ask questions. Jim King Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc. <www.smokymountainmodelworks.com>
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Presentation on Railroads and Agriculture February 21 in Largo , FL
Bill Welch
My apologies as I know this message will only be of interest to those
in Florida and is sent at the risk of shameless self-promotion. The following blurb from the Pinellas County Historical Society is pretty self-explanatory. Heritage Village is in Largo, FL and directions are easy to find on the Internet. The talk, while geared to the general public (I hope), should also be interesting for prototype modelers in terms of how the railroads influenced the growth of commercial agriculture. "Railroads and the Growth of Agriculture" Speaking of History Lecture Sunday, February 21 at 2 p.m. The dawning of the 20th century brought with it a pronounced growth in the production of fruits and vegetables that could be delivered to the main population centers by rail, providing people with food almost year round that previously had been only available for a limited amount of time during their respective local growing seasons. This presentation on Sunday, February 21 at Heritage Village in Largo highlights the technologies, the infrastructures, and the people that made it possible for many of us to eat more balanced diets and consequently live longer lives. Period photographs of the era will present a rich journey into the farming and transportation industries of the time. The program is sponsored by the Pinellas County Historical Society. Free Bill Welch
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Re: New file uploaded to STMFC
Gene <losgatos48@...>
Sorry for the lack of clarity but the model is 1:48 scale (O). Chooch does make HO buildings but no rolling stock to my knowledge.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Gene Deimling
--- In STMFC@..., va661midlo@... wrote:
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Re: New file uploaded to STMFC
Kenneth Montero
Cooch makes kits in both O and HO scales. In which scale or scales will this kit be made?
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Ken Montero
----- Original Message -----
From: STMFC@... To: STMFC@... Sent: Sunday, February 14, 2010 7:16:08 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [STMFC] New file uploaded to STMFC Hello, This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC group. File : /Copy of Soo #811 final.jpg Uploaded by : losgatos48 < losgatos48@... > Description : Chooch Enterprises will be releasing this new kit for the Soo Line/ Wisconsin Central single sheathed boxcar. The prototype was built in 1926 by Pullman and lasted well into the second generation diesel era. The kit comes with decals developed by Ken Soroos of the Soo Line Historical Technical Society You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Copy%20of%20Soo%20%23811%20final.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles Regards, losgatos48 < losgatos48@... > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: New file uploaded to STMFC
Bill Welch
To me, the only clue this is a model is the seam where the diagonal braces join the end.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@..., STMFC@... wrote:
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New file uploaded to STMFC
STMFC@...
Hello,
This email message is a notification to let you know that a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the STMFC group. File : /Copy of Soo #811 final.jpg Uploaded by : losgatos48 <losgatos48@...> Description : Chooch Enterprises will be releasing this new kit for the Soo Line/ Wisconsin Central single sheathed boxcar. The prototype was built in 1926 by Pullman and lasted well into the second generation diesel era. The kit comes with decals developed by Ken Soroos of the Soo Line Historical Technical Society You can access this file at the URL: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/files/Copy%20of%20Soo%20%23811%20final.jpg To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit: http://help.yahoo.com/l/us/yahoo/groups/original/members/forms/general.htmlfiles Regards, losgatos48 <losgatos48@...>
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ACF builder’s photos
Tim Meyer
HI
I am looking for ACF builder's photos of CNW boxcars 79250 to 80250, 1944 82652 to 84250, 1944 84300 to 86298, 1948 Again I am looking for any pictures of CMO and CNW slogan boxcars. Thanks Tim
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Re: PFE R-40-14 UP Herald
railwayman <stevelucas3@...>
Dick--
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
First, my posting is NOT a personal criticism directed at you. It is simply a note of caution regarding the use of corporate websites for info. Any corporation has an interest in presenting it in the best possible light. Ford does not mention the Edsel on its website-- http://www.ford.com/about-ford/heritage/vehicles Which does not mean that the vehicle never existed. Keep in mind that the "We Will Deliver" tagline immediately preceded "Building America". The "Building America" "logotype", or as known in advertising, a "tagline" is presented adjoining the UP logo on this site under "2002 Today Shield and Building America SM" on that web page. Likewise, the 1897 Harriman Shield on this website on the page shows the "World's Pictorial Line" tagline under the shield, not as a part of it. These are but two instances of a tagline accompanying the shield as a part of UP logos. The convenient omission of any mention of the circa 1996-2001 "We Will Deliver" tagline makes one wonder what other info has been "tweaked" over the years. Again, caution is warranted when relying on corporate sites as a source of info. You have corroborated what is on the website with other info that you have--good. But to rely on a corporate website alone for historical info is fraught with peril for a serious historian. Steve Lucas.
--- In STMFC@..., Dick Harley <dick.harley4up@...> wrote:
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Re: Kadee Scale Coupler Operational Reliablity
Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
The stated goal of this list is that "Emphasis is to be placed on
the study of the prototype with a goal of producing models of them with as great a degree of accuracy as possible". To the extent possible, that is also my goal on this thread. There is not a single operational nor visual positive side to coupler droop, and although I cannot speak for them, I will not believe that Kadee, Sergent or Accurail (the only coupler manufacturers that I know of who are actually thinking about such things, not merely producing commodity knock-offs) would disagree. However, all manufacturers (less Sergent) are all hostage to the fact that although coupler boxes are made to a rough standard (the old original Athearn box of the late '50s), in fact the coupler boxes can vary considerably in depth, as do the thickness of coupler shanks. The latter is even more variable when one considers that some coupler shanks take into account the thickness of a sheet bronze centering spring (even if the coupler does not need such a spring), while others do not. As a result, the fact that any given coupler will in fact have a smooth net fit in any given coupler box can be a crap shoot. The Accumate Proto coupler is the exception (as I also believe the Sergent- with-coupler-box) where the coupler and box are engineered as single entity. As a result, they are the only couplers currently on the market with no significant droop. Shims can help, but required thicknesses can be surprisingly variable (see above), and can also represent for the unwary modeler a lot of pretty fiddly work. We confuse operational practicality with prototype accuracy. They are not the same thing. As a matter of practicality or desperation, I may choose to (or HAVE to) tow my freight cars with linked paper clips, loops of string, or chewing gum around 9" horizontal and 45º vertical curves, but it surely would be a stretch for me to assert that has anything to do with prototype modeling (except detraction) (:-). Denny Denny S. Anspach MD Sacramento
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Re: PFE R-40-14 UP Herald
rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
"Medallion" Is the term used by EMD on the painting and styling diagrams for M&StL and CGW Fs.
Clark Propst
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