Date   

D&H composite Seley hoppers

Claus Schlund \(HGM\)
 

Hi,

In N scale, we have had a nicely done model of the D&H composite Seley hoppers available since the "dark ages".

Of course over the years the models have been painted up in a million bogus paint schemes.

Surprisingly, it was even available factory painted for D&H! The factory paint was white lettering on a black body, which I always
thought was incorrect. I had heard these cars were painted Tuscan Red.

So when I got around to upgrading the ones I had, I painted them Floquil Tuscan Red and lettered them with CDS dry transfers. I
didn't repaint the one car I had in factory D&H paint, just for nostalgia!

You can see an image of my paint and the factory paint at the url below.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/4393259236_376d5bbc3b_b.jpg

Recently, I was clearing up some old calendars and train mags, and on the front cover the the 2000 Anthracite Roads Historical
Society was a very nice yard shot. One of the cars was clearly a D&H Seley hopper, and get this, it was painted black! See url
below:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2797/4393259648_34146a5323_b.jpg

So can anyone tell me what the color was really supposed to be? I model the year 1929.

- Claus Schlund


Re: Chemical Mfg. Info. - Re: Is Tenax 7R Gone?

Tim O'Connor
 

The idea would be to create a more aggressive mixture than
Tenax alone while slowing down the evaporation rate of the MEK
and at the same time, save money. :-)

At 2/27/2010 03:35 PM Saturday, you wrote:

Tim,

Why would yo want to do that?

Curious minds want to know!

Paul Lyons






-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Feb 27, 2010 11:31 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Chemical Mfg. Info. - Re: Is Tenax 7R Gone?





is it safe to mix (dilute) Tenax (methylene choride) with MEK?

Tim O'Connor





=






------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: Chemical Mfg. Info. - Re: Is Tenax 7R Gone?

Paul Lyons
 

Tim,

Why would yo want to do that?

Curious minds want to know!

Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, Feb 27, 2010 11:31 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Chemical Mfg. Info. - Re: Is Tenax 7R Gone?





is it safe to mix (dilute) Tenax (methylene choride) with MEK?

Tim O'Connor





=


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Chemical Mfg. Info. - Re: Is Tenax 7R Gone?

Tim O'Connor
 

is it safe to mix (dilute) Tenax (methylene choride) with MEK?

Tim O'Connor


Re: Intermountain / Red Caboose 42' Fish Belly Flat Car

Charles Hladik
 

Gene,
I believe that in the first run of these the NKPHS was the sole dealer
for the NKP. My thought would be that the NKP "should" at least be a
stand-in.
Chuck Hladik

In a message dated 2/27/2010 6:21:15 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
bierglaeser@yahoo.com writes:




Intermountain has announced a run of the Red Caboose 42' Fish Belly Flat
Car lettered for ATSF, D&RGW, Northern Pacific, Nickel Plate Road, Union
Pacific & Chicago North Western due in September or October 2010.

I have equipment diagrams for the C&NW and NP but none of the others. It
appears to me that the RC 42' flat is at least a good stand-in for for 4
series of C&NW flats.

40001-41019 - built 1922
41021-41419 - built 1923
41501-42499 - built 1925
42501-42699 - built 1927

The Northern Pacific does not appear to have had any flat cars similar to
the RC 42' flat car.

Can anyone comment on whether or not the ATSF, D&RGW, NKP & UP had cars
similar to the RC 42' flat cars? Good stand-in is close enough for my
purposes.

Gene Green


Chemical Mfg. Info. - Re: Is Tenax 7R Gone?

Jim Howell
 

Greetings

Some adhesive trivia information from a model railroader that's employed with the 3M Company. MEK is used by many large adhesive makers as a adhesive thinner & process equipment cleaning solvent. It is also widely used in automoive body shop product applications & in chemical solvent based industrial paints. Yes, Tenax-7R is not MEK and is basically just methylene chloride, another chemical solvent. If I remember my chemistry education correctly, it contains a component that is also used to produce the formulation of MEK.

When you buy a bottle of Tenax-7R, you are basically just buying a glass bottle of methylene chloride packaged & directly marketed for us modelers. In other words, a form of basic market capitialism at work. Take a available bulk chemical solvent, package it into small convenient one ounce size bottles, give it a catchy product name, and promote its use as a specialized product for hobby modelers. Then enjoy the hopeful profit margins that come from your direct marketing efforts.

You will note that Tenax-7R calls itself a "plastic welder". As we all probably know, it dissolves plastic to make a melted plastic weld. MEK basically does the same except it is a MUCH stronger chemical solvent. I think of MEK as being "Tenax on steroids". I started using MEK because I can go to the local hardware or paint store and purchase a pint or quart size can of it. I use in my modeling projects and also for other uses such as on vehicle or other equipment restoration projects. So averaging it out, my per ounce cost of buying MEK is much less and I have a larger stored supply quantity of it. My label removed, one ounce bottle that once contained Tenax now serves as a small MEK storage container at my modeling workbench. Mostly what I use MEK for is a a thinner for my plastic adhesive cements and in some old solvent based paints. As previuosly pointed out, MEK evaporates quickly and using it to "weld" plastic together can be a challenge. That may explain why some modelers like Tenax-7R better for their modeling use.

Now before I / we get bombarded with replies stating how nasty & harmful MEK is as a chemical, please note that I will totally agree with you on that point. But I will also say that the very same arguement can be said for (Tenax-7R) Methylene Chloride too. However I will add that that MEK fumes are VERY subject to flash ignition from the slightist soure. In our manfacturing use, everything we do has to be throughly static grounded to prevent any possible type of ignition sparks. Like most chemical products, you must use common sense, caution, & safety protections when using the product for your specific application.

Best Regards & Happy Modeling,

Jim Howell - 3M Company Technician
ATSF / SFRH&MS / NMRA Model Railroader

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "pullmanboss" <tgmadden@...> wrote:

Jon has misremembered - Tenax-7R doesn't contain methyl ethyl ketone (MEK). The Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for Tenax-7R says it's 98% to 100% methylene chloride. The link to the MSDS is:

http://www.emedco.info/rtk/common/wcd00025/wcd02597.htm

I use Tenax, Ambroid Pro-Weld (those of us who have been in the hobby since the 1950's are required to have an Ambroid adhesive _somewhere_ on our workbench!), Testors Plastic Cement and MEK. All are, or contain, nasty chemicals. I like MEK, but it evaporates so quickly that trying to bond small parts with just a little bit of it can be an exercise in frustration.

Tom Madden

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Miller" <atsf@> wrote:

I forget, isn't this just MEK or something like that?<
All styrene cements contain MEK. I remember a clinic Bob from Mainline Modeler gave once. He spent 5 or ten minutes telling how evil MEK was and he only used Tenax or something like that. Someone then asked him to read the contents on the label of that product. Contains MEK

Well it was good for a laugh by everyone, including Bob.


Re: Waddell Coal Hopper

railwayman <stevelucas3@...>
 

I bought it. Nice book.

Steve Lucas.
(closet O&W fan)

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Schuyler Larrabee" <schuyler.larrabee@...> wrote:

That will do the trick. Must not have come to those pages in Bob's book yet
. . .



Do people actually buy "O&W In Color?"



SGL



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Schneider
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:18 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Waddell Coal Hopper





Not sure about on-line SGL, but photos appear in Bob's "Hard Coal and Coal
Cars" book as well as Morning Sun's "O&W in Color" and "Trackside Around
Scranton" titles.

Bill


Primer (was Painting Resin kits)

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

I regularly apply a coat a primer.  I have been using Dupli-Color Paint Shop Finish System primer.  This is a ready to spray lacquer that can be used directly from the can.  Unlike automotive primers I used in the past which required extensive thinning and mixing, this primer can be used as is.  It goes on nice and smooth and dries almost instantly.  I use it on resin, plastic and brass.  The finish color, regardless of which brand/type of paint I use, lays down nice and evenly over the primer.



The same company also offers Jet Black in the ready to spray formula.  This also applies nice and smooth and with a nice gloss for applying decals.  I've used it on a number of brass locomotives that I've painted, as welll as N&W diesels.



There are other colors in the line that I have not used.  There is a "competition red" which may be useful for some caboose reds.



I've found these paints at Advance Auto and Pep Boys auto parts stores here in Maryland.



Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD


Re: Painting Resin Freight Car Kits

Rob & Bev Manley
 

You should see what I charge for a used car.
Rob Manley

----- Original Message -----
From: John Stokes
To: stmfc@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 12:38 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Painting Resin Freight Car Kits




Pretty pricey nail file boards, must give a really good finish. :).

John S.

To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
From: robev1630@sbcglobal.net
Date: Thu, 25 Feb 2010 23:23:43 -0600
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Painting Resin Freight Car Kits

PAul,

I always wash my sheets of castings with Dawn detergent and a little BArkeepers Friend cleanser before separating and sanding the parts. I use a nail board with different grits equal to 100, 200, 300, 400, 600, 800 that I buy at Walgreens for about $100.00 each. I sand the mating edges to break the glossy back surface and sand (even the tiny ones) parts to remove the flash the X-acto won't get. Walgreens or Home Depot ACC works for me and when fresh is as good as the hobby shop brands.

When assembled I gve the car a bath again with dawn and a toothbrush or a 3/4" wide artist oil painter brush. I don't submerge the car so no water enters the body. let dry or coax some of the water away with a hair dryer being careful to not warp the body. I spray all my models with Poly Scale waterbase with no primer. Most of the boxcar colors don't need a primer to neutralize the plastic and resin parts and cover quite well. Glosscoat with Pledge/Future floor acrylic polish and decal per MIcroscale instructions. Flat finish with Poly Scale Flat or MIcroscale flat.

DONE.

Rob


Waddell Coal Hopper

ford.donald77 <ford.donald77@...>
 

Thanks for the info on the Waddell hoppers. From the photo it looks like the near car has Wine door locks. My first question to self was where is the train line? The far car has the "A" end facing and there doesn't seam to be one there. The far car looks like it mite be a USRA car with those little gussetes by the first rib. In the photo you can see the extinions to the car sides. I don't think I will try that and will go with KD brakes with the power hand brake. Also the far car looks like it doesn't have Wine door locks. Anyway if you come to Kanab and see that car off line don't tell any of the locals.
Don Ford
Kanab UT


GM&O 8000-8999, 5000-5683

Brian Carlson
 

I'm trying to clear some projects on my workbench. The Naperville gift 2
years ago was a jig to make the 9 rung ladders for the GM&O cars. I am
almost ready to paint but am faced with a quandary. the sunshine
instructions for the kit call the "The Rebel Route" scheme short lived. The
postwar cars received simple Gulf Mobile & Ohio lettering without the
slogan. I model 1957. Does anyone have photos of any of these heavily
weathered cars 15-17 years after construction still in original paint.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY


Re: Painting Resin Freight Car Kits

Tim O'Connor
 

Garth

That is good if you only want a mild abrasive, but a surfactant
like a detergent helps to remove the oils without abrasion, while
a pure abrasive w/ water might leave some oil behind. The trick
is to find a 'pure' cleanser without aromatic oils or hand lotion.
Mild abrasion is ok but not essential.

On the other hand, it sounds like Bon Ami might be a good item for
modeling spilled cement on covered hoppers! :-)

Tim O'Connor

At 2/26/2010 03:01 PM Friday, you wrote:
Tim and friends,

I wonder of Bon Ami would be even better than Comet. No chemicals
(IIRC), just diatomatious earth.

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Personal preference: I wash the major parts prior to assembly. I don't
want to risk damage to an assembled model. I use dish soap but the Comet
sounds like a good idea to me. If I see a fingerprint (rarely) prior to
painting, I just remove it with an alcohol soaked Q-tip.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Painting Resin Freight Car Kits

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Over time I've come to read all of a thread before I step in (it). Usually,
anyway. And this time Garth has stolen my thunder. Bon Ami's motto,
"Hasn't scratched yet," illustrated with a small chick, is right on the
mark. But it does remove oil and greasy stuff from many things. It's even
safe to use on glass, which Comet can scratch.



Besides, Bon Ami used to be a shipper on the Lackawanna . . .

SGL

Tim and friends,

I wonder of Bon Ami would be even better than Comet. No chemicals
(IIRC), just diatomatious earth.

Kind regards,

Garth Groff

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Personal preference: I wash the major parts prior to assembly. I don't
want to risk damage to an assembled model. I use dish soap but the Comet
sounds like a good idea to me. If I see a fingerprint (rarely) prior to
painting, I just remove it with an alcohol soaked Q-tip.

Tim O'Connor






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Re: One More Brake Equipment Question

octoraro1948 <octoraro1@...>
 

There are photos of a Royal F brake regulartor under a car and diagrams from the manufacturer in the Photos section of this forum.

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:


While I am seeking answers on the arrangement of brake components I
might as well toss this question out. Does anyone know of a good
photo for a Royal Type F Brake Regulator?

Thanks again in advance:

Bill Pardie


Re: Painting Resin Freight Car Kits

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Tim and friends,

I wonder of Bon Ami would be even better than Comet. No chemicals (IIRC), just diatomatious earth.

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

Tim O'Connor wrote:

Personal preference: I wash the major parts prior to assembly. I don't
want to risk damage to an assembled model. I use dish soap but the Comet
sounds like a good idea to me. If I see a fingerprint (rarely) prior to
painting, I just remove it with an alcohol soaked Q-tip.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Painting Resin Freight Car Kits

Tim O'Connor
 

Personal preference: I wash the major parts prior to assembly. I don't
want to risk damage to an assembled model. I use dish soap but the Comet
sounds like a good idea to me. If I see a fingerprint (rarely) prior to
painting, I just remove it with an alcohol soaked Q-tip.

Tim O'Connor

At 2/26/2010 11:49 AM Friday, you wrote:
Paul--

Following a tip in a Mainline Modeler (Stuart Thayer article?) I clean my STMFC's with Comet and water before painting them. Comet is a mildly abrasive scouring powder that does not have lanolin--which many dish soaps do.

Steve Lucas.


Re: Is Tenax 7R Gone?

Tim O'Connor
 

Microscale also makes a styrene adhesive, Micro Weld. It
smells like citrus; I think it's safer than any of the other
adhesives, although Tenax is by far my favorite. The Ambroid
Pro Weld is best for ABS plastic; the Tenax doesn't work well
on the old Plastruct parts.

Tim O'Connor

Jon has misremembered - Tenax-7R doesn't contain methyl ethyl ketone (MEK). The Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for Tenax-7R says it's 98% to 100% methylene chloride. The link to the MSDS is:

http://www.emedco.info/rtk/common/wcd00025/wcd02597.htm

I use Tenax, Ambroid Pro-Weld (those of us who have been in the hobby since the 1950's are required to have an Ambroid adhesive _somewhere_ on our workbench!), Testors Plastic Cement and MEK. All are, or contain, nasty chemicals. I like MEK, but it evaporates so quickly that trying to bond small parts with just a little bit of it can be an exercise in frustration.

Tom Madden

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Miller" <atsf@...> wrote:

I forget, isn't this just MEK or something like that?<
All styrene cements contain MEK. I remember a clinic Bob from Mainline
Modeler gave once. He spent 5 or ten minutes telling how evil MEK was and
he only used Tenax or something like that. Someone then asked him to read
the contents on the label of that product.
Contains MEK
Well it was good for a laugh by everyone, including Bob.


Re: Waddell Coal Hopper

Schuyler Larrabee
 

That will do the trick. Must not have come to those pages in Bob's book yet
. . .



Do people actually buy "O&W In Color?"



SGL



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill
Schneider
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:18 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Waddell Coal Hopper





Not sure about on-line SGL, but photos appear in Bob's "Hard Coal and Coal
Cars" book as well as Morning Sun's "O&W in Color" and "Trackside Around
Scranton" titles.

Bill

From: Schuyler Larrabee
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 9:29 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Waddell Coal Hopper

So, finally, somebody refers to photos. Are there any on line?

SGL

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf
Of Bill
Schneider
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 8:42 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Waddell Coal Hopper

Yep, was for real.

From memory, the Waddell Coal Company of Scranton, PA had five cars, all
ex-O&W, and at least four of which were painted orange. The cars were two
bays of (I believe) the 1905 standard design, but are quite close to the
USRA in profile. FWIW, the graphics on the car are spot on (if I say so
myself - I did them!), including the backwards "X" in one of the reporting
marks.

The big question is whether these ever got off home rails (which in this
case would have been NYO&W). There are several photos of them in Scranton,
and one that I am reasonably confident of in Middletown NY (it's in a train
at a steep angle, but there are only so many orange two bay hoppers to
choose from). My personal guess is that they were used to deliver coal from
Waddell's breaker to regional dealers and didn't stray too far.

Bill Schneider
http://home.comcast.net/~oandw/

From: ford.donald77
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 12:49 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Waddell Coal Hopper

I found an Old & Weary Waddell Coal Company hopper that I had forgotten
about. It was a gift and the person who gave it thought it was CUTE!
Is it for real? The WDLX reporting marks were used in 1/1952-10/1957 by
Waddell Coal but I don't have a ORER for that time period. The model is an
Accurail USRA 50-ton 2 bay. Is that close or will I be wasting my time
giving it the detail treatment, wire grabs, brake rigging and stuff.
Thanks beforehand
Don Ford
Kanab UT



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Re: Seaboard 1958 cuft hoppers

Eric Mumper
 

Group,

Is there a good photo of the Pullman locking bar out there somewhere? Does not matter what roadname or where. Also, does anyone have leads on where to find Microscale 87-1007? These are out of print and are correct for the Seaboard cars. This should be a great, simple modeling project especially since Moloco and Kadee provide the Champion-Peacock brakes, Plano provides the running boards and Tangent provides the trucks. The layout could use 5 of these for phosphate rock traffic to supplant the old Bowser cars. Thanks.

Eric Mumper
eric.mumper@gmail.com

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


The last series 8450-8649 (Pullman-Standard lot 5979B, built 2-51)
closely fits the IM model having "open sides" and hatches with hinges
next to the running board. Pullman's locking bar was different than the
ACF-type used on the model. Otherwise the only other main differences
are specialty items such as Champion-Peacock hand brakes, U.S. Gypsum
running boards, and 70-ton A-3 Ride-Control trucks.


Re: Box Car details questions

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks for that excellent response, Ed!

The date of rebuilds with high end tack boards and low door tack boards was,
I believe, June '55, and I don't know why they would have high end boards on
a late taper end, but they may have drilled them by mistake. All following
cars had low boards, which could mean they got the new supply of ends.

Have a great weekend, too,

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ed
Hawkins
Sent: Friday, February 26, 2010 11:28 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Box Car details questions




On Feb 26, 2010, at 9:21 AM, Gatwood, Elden J SAD wrote:

I am sorry, I should have this committed to memory by now, but could
any of you help out and tell me:

a) At what date did the R/3/4 IDE change from rolling pin taper to
late taper?

b) At what date was the overhanging diagonal panel roof introduced, in
the 40-foot variety?

c) At what date were the RRs told to lower the tack boards? Did the
date differ as far as sides and ends, or both at the same time? Is
there reason you can think of that a RR would rebuild a car and put
those on the ends high (yes, new ends), and those on the (new) door
low?
Elden,
a). Box cars and reefers built in 1954 with Improved Dreadnaught Ends
continued to use the rolling pin taper. The earliest date for the later taper
was 1955. I have yet to find an exception to this rule.

b). I don't have the exact month, but the date was relatively early in
1948 (around March 1948) when diagonal panel roofs were initially used on new
cars. Photos of some reefers built in early 1949 show overhanging diagonal
panel roofs including the PFE R-40-25. P&LE 40'
box cars in series 20000-20999 built in 1950 had overhanging diagonal panel
roofs.

c). The transition took place in late 1953. Using new PS-1s as an example,
the latest build date having high placards was 10-53 with cars having low
placards built beginning 11-53. The change from high to low for sides and
ends occurred at the same time. I don't know of a reason for your last
question in c) unless the new ends used for the rebuilt cars were received
with the bolt holes pre-drilled in the high position.

What is the date of the rebuilt car you refer to (having the combination of
high and low placards)? The date might provide a clue.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

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