Date   

Thinner for Accupaint

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

I am continuing to draw on my dwindling cache of Accupaint, and yesterday ran into a vexing problem related (I think) to the use of lacquer thinner as thinner for spraying. I have not experienced this before, but in the interest of conserving what paint I have left, and to continue to use it all to good effect, is there some other thinner that I should be using in preference?

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Re: D&H composite Seley hoppers

Benjamin Hom
 

Schuyler Larrabee wrote:
"Now, I know that there are some eagle-eye PRR fans that will be able to
date this photo (it wasn't dated in the ARHS
magazine?) by the circle keystone on the hopper nearer the camera..."

All the CK monogram tells you is that the photo was taken after 1930.


"...but I also know that the circle D&H herald wasn't used until the (I
think) late 40s, right?"

The circular "A CENTURY OF ANTHRACITE SERVICE" herald actually appeared c.
1941, and was later changed to "THE BRIDGE LINE BETWEEN NEW ENGLAND AND
CANADA" in 1950.


"So this photo is likely from somewhere around 1950 or later."

Decent guess, though not based on the reasoning above. If you look at the
full photo, other clues in the photo are a fairly rusty PRR Class X26C
boxcar in CK (rebuilt 1945-1949), freshly painted B&O Class N-35A (Mid-1946
to 1953) and M-26 (Mid-1946 to Mid-1955) subclass cars with postwar "Linking
13 Great States" paint schemes, a Wabash 88200-series postwar AAR boxcar
(identified by its 12-panel welded sides, built December 1948), and an Erie
quad hopper with the large diamond (1946-1947). The caption on the back of
the calendar by Bruce Kantner dates the photo in the Summer of 1950; I'm
generally in agreement but lean towards the late 1940s based on what I don't
see in the photo: PS-1 boxcars, and a greater numbers of offset twin hopper
cars, particularly CNJ. All of the CNJ hopper cars in view are Bob Karig's
"1905 Common Standard" cars; CNJ got their offset twins in 1944, though they
were relatively few in number (500 cars). In fact, the only offset twins in
view are the aforementioned B&O Class N-35A and a Shawmut car.


"That suggests that the original color of the hopper could have been
anything, including Tuscan or black. And there could have been any sort of
repaint involved.

I'd also hazard a guess, based on how some ERIE and DL&W hoppers of the 20s
were painted and lettered, that the lettering on your last black hopper is
"correcter" than your painted and decaled Tuscan car. (Sorry.)"

Depends on when you're talking about. John Nehrich believes that the
changeover from red to black happened sometime during WWII. We do know that
hoppers acquired in 1939 and gons in 1941 were painted red, and color photo
documentation of D&H hopper cars in the 1950s clearly show black cars. We
just haven't found the exact changeover date.


"I'd be looking for a post from Al Westerfield on this one. (Have you
checked
his web page? Neither have I. Yet.)"

Not sure what you're looking for on Al's web page - he doesn't make any D&H
hopper kits. The HO scale D&H Seley kits were done by Funaro.


Ben Hom


Re: D&H composite Seley hoppers...info

mforsyth127
 

Claus S. wrote:

...was a very nice yard shot. One of the cars was clearly a D&H Seley
hopper, and get this, it was painted black! See url
below:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2797/4393259648_34146a5323_b.jpg

So can anyone tell me what the color was really supposed to be? I model the year 1929.
Claus,

As a D&H modeler, I can tell you that all my records indicate that ALL D&H hoppers were painted oxide red until 1942, after which time all new cars, as well as re-shopped cars were painted black. That became the standard until the mid 1950's, when a small group of hoppers that were in dedicated, upstate New York taconite service were painted an oxide brown.

There are two different D&H "circular heralds", that appeared at different times. The first was the 30" herald that was comprised of the traditional "D&H" script in the center circle, with the outer ring saying "A Century of Anthracite Service". This was a slogan that the Company adopted for their 1929 Centenial, but it was not turned into a herald and added to their freight cars until 1939, with the acquisition of the first fishbelly twins from Bethlehem.

The second circular herald was introduced with their 1951-52 order of AAR Standard offset twins. It was 42" in diameter, had "The D&H" script in the center, with the outer ring stating, "The Bridge Line to New England and Canada".

The D&H was a small road, but rostered a decent sized hopper fleet, with 64% of them being Seley cars as late as 1950. Seley's came in clamshell twins, and sawtooth triples and quads, with the twins being the dominant car.

After the steel restrictions of WWII had eneded, begining in 1949 the D&H rebuilt many of the Seleys with steel side panels and slope sheets, replacing the wooden components of the car entirely.

Approx. numbers of cars as of 1950:

Seley twins: 3604
Seley triples: 151
Seley Quads: 102
USRA twins (as built): 674
USRA twins (panel side): 302
Beth. fishbelly twins: 1298

By all rights, for the year 1929, your D&H Seley hoppers should look like gons and not hoppers. When first constructed, their wood sheathing ran the full length of the car side. When the fleet was rebuilt in the early 1930's, the side sheathing was "bobbed" at the slope sheet edge, exposing the slope sheet angle, and making the cars look like hoppers.

Aside from full-length side sheating, 1929 era cars should be painted oxide red, NO circular herald, and other than D&H reporting marks, car number and car data, the car should sport a canted, 21" script "The D&H" in the upper left corner. Lastly, directly under the D&H reporting marks, in small 3" inch letter, is should read "THE DELAWARE AND HUSDON RR".



Matt Forsyth

Modeling the D&H Penn Division/
Erie Jefferson Division
in "O" Scale, Fall 1951


Re: Waddell Coal Hopper

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Do people actually buy "O&W In Color?"

SGL

At least all of the 760 members of the Ontario & Western
Historical Society. . . and then, I presume all who just have
one of everything!

Mal Houck



Mal, that was intended to needle Bill Schneider, who originally posted "Owen
W in color" as a reference, and, I suppose, anybody else who's passionate
about the O&W, as I know you are too. All in fun.



SGL





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Re: Red Caboose Gen. Ser. SS Gondola

barrybennetttoo <Barrybennetttoo@...>
 

Volume One of the Morning Sun 'Sp in Color' series has a Dick Kuelbs photo
on page 99 of GS gon # 361415 clearly labelled 'Do not load scrap or logs'
filled to the gunnells with steel scrap. Date of photo is Sept 16 1960,
location Mojave.

It is probably heading for steelworks in Ca, but it may give a tenuous
reason for it to travel to the north east with similar loading.

Barry Bennett
Coventry, England.

-------Original Message-------

From: Mark Morgan
Date: 02/28/10 03:21:19
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Red Caboose Gen. Ser. SS Gondola


Thank You for the reply Mr. Hendrickson. Alas another redo:-)

Mark Morgan

PS espee it will be!

--- On Sat, 2/27/10, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com> wrote:

From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Red Caboose Gen. Ser. SS Gondola
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:23 PM



On Feb 27, 2010, at 3:44 PM, bnonut wrote:

I purchased a Red Caboose General Service steel sided gondola kit.
The car is Milwaukee #93143. Would this be correct?
No. While MILW 93143 was a 41'6" steel GS gondola, its drop doors

were operated by individual Wine latches, not the Enterprise system

the model represents, which was quite different both in principle and

in appearance.

The instructions mention a Southern Pacific version and Union Pacific.
The model accurately represents the SP cars and is close to correct

as well for the postwar UP cars and some Illinois Central cars built

in 1940 (though those had early style Dreadnaught ends, rather than

the model's improved Dreadnaught ends). Offhand, I can't think of

cars owned by any other RRs that the model is correct for. Lots of

other RRs had steel GWS gondolas, but they had had different door

operating mechanisms.

SP and UP general service gondolas weren't likely to have strayed off-

line as far as the B&O very often, but the whole point of the GS

design was that almost anything could be loaded into them, and the SP

sometimes used them to ship lumber, bridge timbers, and the like.

Champ had an excellent set of Signature Line decals for these cars,

if it's still available.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Red Caboose Gen. Ser. SS Gondola

Brian Termunde
 

There is a scrap dealer in Mojave, Calif., Purdy Company, IIRC.

Take Care,

Brian R. Termunde
Midvale, UT

****************

_Re: Red Caboose Gen. Ser. SS Gondola _
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/message/88793;_ylc=X3oDMTJyYjFobjV2BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAzI1NTQ3NTMEZ3Jw
c3BJZAMxNzA1MTY5NzI1BG1zZ0lkAzg4NzkzBHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2bXNnBHN0aW1lAzEyNjcz
NjM5MDE-)
Posted by: "barrybennetttoo" _Barrybennetttoo@aol.com _
(mailto:Barrybennetttoo@aol.com?Subject= Re:%20Red%20Caboose%20Gen.%20Ser.%20SS%20Gondola)
_barryb2again _ (http://profiles.yahoo.com/barryb2again)
Sun Feb 28, 2010 3:43 am (PST)
Volume One of the Morning Sun 'Sp in Color' series has a Dick Kuelbs photo
on page 99 of GS gon # 361415 clearly labelled 'Do not load scrap or logs'
filled to the gunnells with steel scrap. Date of photo is Sept 16 1960,
location Mojave.


Re: D&H composite Seley hoppers

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Hi Claus . . .



As usual, I checked all through the rest of the thread on this . . . . and
find that there is no thread. Now, I know that there are some eagle-eye PRR
fans that will be able to date this photo (it wasn't dated in the ARHS
magazine?) by the circle keystone on the hopper nearer the camera, but I
also know that the circle D&H herald wasn't used until the (I think) late
40s, right? So this photo is likely from somewhere around 1950 or later.
That suggests that the original color of the hopper could have been
anything, including Tuscan or black. And there could have been any sort of
repaint involved.



I'd also hazard a guess, based on how some ERIE and DL&W hoppers of the 20s
were painted and lettered, that the lettering on your last black hopper is
"correcter" than your painted and decaled Tuscan car. (Sorry.)



I'd be looking for a post from Al Westerfield on this one. (Have you checked
his web page? Neither have I. Yet.)



SGL (Fan of ERIE, DL&W and D&H, in that order)

Hi,

In N scale, we have had a nicely done model of the D&H composite Seley
hoppers available since the "dark ages".

Of course over the years the models have been painted up in a million bogus
paint schemes.

Surprisingly, it was even available factory painted for D&H! The factory
paint was white lettering on a black body, which I always
thought was incorrect. I had heard these cars were painted Tuscan Red.

So when I got around to upgrading the ones I had, I painted them Floquil
Tuscan Red and lettered them with CDS dry transfers. I
didn't repaint the one car I had in factory D&H paint, just for nostalgia!

You can see an image of my paint and the factory paint at the url below.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/4393259236_376d5bbc3b_b.jpg

Recently, I was clearing up some old calendars and train mags, and on the
front cover the the 2000 Anthracite Roads Historical
Society was a very nice yard shot. One of the cars was clearly a D&H Seley
hopper, and get this, it was painted black! See url
below:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2797/4393259648_34146a5323_b.jpg

So can anyone tell me what the color was really supposed to be? I model the
year 1929.

- Claus Schlund







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Re: Intermountain / Red Caboose 42' Fish Belly Flat Car

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Many thanks to Richard Hendrickson, Mark Morgan, Brian Carlson, and Ray Breyer for information about the RC flat car.

Gene Green


Re: Red Caboose Gen. Ser. SS Gondola

Mark
 

Thank You for the reply Mr. Hendrickson. Alas another redo:-)

Mark Morgan

PS espee it will be!

--- On Sat, 2/27/10, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com> wrote:

From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Red Caboose Gen. Ser. SS Gondola
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 9:23 PM







 











On Feb 27, 2010, at 3:44 PM, bnonut wrote:



I purchased a Red Caboose General Service steel sided gondola kit.
The car is Milwaukee #93143. Would this be correct?


No. While MILW 93143 was a 41'6" steel GS gondola, its drop doors

were operated by individual Wine latches, not the Enterprise system

the model represents, which was quite different both in principle and

in appearance.

The instructions mention a Southern Pacific version and Union Pacific.


The model accurately represents the SP cars and is close to correct

as well for the postwar UP cars and some Illinois Central cars built

in 1940 (though those had early style Dreadnaught ends, rather than

the model's improved Dreadnaught ends). Offhand, I can't think of

cars owned by any other RRs that the model is correct for. Lots of

other RRs had steel GWS gondolas, but they had had different door

operating mechanisms.



SP and UP general service gondolas weren't likely to have strayed off-

line as far as the B&O very often, but the whole point of the GS

design was that almost anything could be loaded into them, and the SP

sometimes used them to ship lumber, bridge timbers, and the like.

Champ had an excellent set of Signature Line decals for these cars,

if it's still available.



Richard Hendrickson





























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Red Caboose Gen. Ser. SS Gondola

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 27, 2010, at 3:44 PM, bnonut wrote:

I purchased a Red Caboose General Service steel sided gondola kit.
The car is Milwaukee #93143. Would this be correct?
No. While MILW 93143 was a 41'6" steel GS gondola, its drop doors
were operated by individual Wine latches, not the Enterprise system
the model represents, which was quite different both in principle and
in appearance.

The instructions mention a Southern Pacific version and Union Pacific.
The model accurately represents the SP cars and is close to correct
as well for the postwar UP cars and some Illinois Central cars built
in 1940 (though those had early style Dreadnaught ends, rather than
the model's improved Dreadnaught ends). Offhand, I can't think of
cars owned by any other RRs that the model is correct for. Lots of
other RRs had steel GWS gondolas, but they had had different door
operating mechanisms.

SP and UP general service gondolas weren't likely to have strayed off-
line as far as the B&O very often, but the whole point of the GS
design was that almost anything could be loaded into them, and the SP
sometimes used them to ship lumber, bridge timbers, and the like.
Champ had an excellent set of Signature Line decals for these cars,
if it's still available.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Intermountain / Red Caboose 42' Fish Belly Flat Car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 27, 2010, at 3:12 PM, Gene wrote:

Intermountain has announced a run of the Red Caboose 42' Fish Belly
Flat Car lettered for ATSF, D&RGW, Northern Pacific, Nickel Plate
Road, Union Pacific & Chicago North Western due in September or
October 2010.

I have equipment diagrams for the C&NW and NP but none of the
others. It appears to me that the RC 42' flat is at least a good
stand-in for for 4 series of C&NW flats.

40001-41019 - built 1922
41021-41419 - built 1923
41501-42499 - built 1925
42501-42699 - built 1927

The Northern Pacific does not appear to have had any flat cars
similar to the RC 42' flat car.

Can anyone comment on whether or not the ATSF, D&RGW, NKP & UP had
cars similar to the RC 42' flat cars? Good stand-in is close
enough for my purposes.
Previous responses from Mark Morgan, Brian Carlson, and Ray Breyer
are all correct, as far as they go. The model was based on drawings
for the NYC lot 598F flat cars built at the NYC shops in Avon, PA in
1930, numbers 49600-49299. In addition to the additional cars they
cited, it is also essentially correct for Pere Marquette
16000-16099. The model is similar to the USRA design 42' flats,
which were owned by numerous railroads (including the number series
you list for the C&NW). However, the distinctive feature of the
model, and of its NYC prototype, is that the stake pockets were not
spaced evenly; the end stake pockets on each side were slightly
closer to their inboard neighbors, unlike those on the USRA design.
If you can live with that, you can use the model to represent cars of
USRA design. However, the Santa Fe, Rio Grande, and Union Pacific,
as well as the Northern Pacific, did not own 42' fishbelly side sill
flat cars (the Santa Fe had some vaguely similar Ft-G class cars
built in 1905, but they were largely retired or in MW service after
World War II).


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Red Caboose Gen. Ser. SS Gondola

Mark
 

Thanks, Tim.

The car does look similar!

Mark Morgan

--- On Sat, 2/27/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net> wrote:

From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Red Caboose Gen. Ser. SS Gondola
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:18 PM







 











The model is a stand in for the Milwaukee cars built in 1949. I've

sent you a builder photo. No one makes an exact model for the MILW

cars.



Tim O'Connor



At 2/27/2010 06:44 PM Saturday, you wrote:

I purchased a Red Caboose General Service steel sided gondola kit. The car is Milwaukee #93143. Would this be correct?
The instructions mention a Southern Pacific version and Union Pacific.
Need one for my layout, based on the B&O in 1957 Newark Division.
Mark Morgan
























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Red Caboose Gen. Ser. SS Gondola

Tim O'Connor
 

The model is a stand in for the Milwaukee cars built in 1949. I've
sent you a builder photo. No one makes an exact model for the MILW
cars.

Tim O'Connor

At 2/27/2010 06:44 PM Saturday, you wrote:
I purchased a Red Caboose General Service steel sided gondola kit. The car is Milwaukee #93143. Would this be correct?

The instructions mention a Southern Pacific version and Union Pacific.

Need one for my layout, based on the B&O in 1957 Newark Division.

Mark Morgan


RED CABOOSE undecorated kits

Andy Carlson
 

I received today large quantities of Red Caboose freight car kits.

42' undec flat cars, AAR '37 boxcars in square and "W" ends, ACF 40' AAR boxcars, PRR X29s in several variants, ARA X29s, PFE wood reefers, composite and steel GS gondolas. All in stock and ready for shipping. Please note that I have NO SP 53' flat cars.

I also have, from Terry Wegmann, the just released lower quadrant Train Order signals.

If interested, contact me off-list (Please) at <midcentury@sbcglobal.net> Thanks,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


Re: Waddell Coal Hopper

Malcolm H. Houck
 

Do people actually buy "O&W In Color?"

SGL

At least all of the 760 members of the Ontario & Western
Historical Society. . . and then, I presume all who just have
one of everything!

Mal Houck


Re: Intermountain / Red Caboose 42' Fish Belly Flat Car

Ray Breyer
 

Gene Green wrote:
Intermountain has announced a run of the Red Caboose 42'
Fish Belly Flat Car lettered for ATSF, D&RGW, Northern Pacific,
Nickel Plate Road, Union Pacific & Chicago North Western due
in September or October 2010.
Can anyone comment on whether or not the ATSF, D&RGW, NKP & UP
had cars similar to the RC 42' flat cars?  Good stand-in is
close enough for my purposes.

Hi Gene,

The Red Caboose flat is almost dead-on correct for NKP 1900-1999, which started life as W&LE 1900-1999, built in 1929. Be careful here: the NKP didn't start repainting Wheeling equipment in a big way until 1952, and some were still in Wheeling paint at the time of the N&W takeover.

The RC flat is also correct for the TP&W, but they're not being offered this time around (I already have all of those I need for Cat plant service!).

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: Intermountain / Red Caboose 42' Fish Belly Flat Car

Brian Carlson
 

The NKP is accurate for ex W&LE cars. some of which were converted to TOFC
service in the 50's. If you want more detailed information on the NKP cars
shoot me an email off list.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gene
Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:13 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Intermountain / Red Caboose 42' Fish Belly Flat Car





Intermountain has announced a run of the Red Caboose 42' Fish Belly Flat Car
lettered for ATSF, D&RGW, Northern Pacific, Nickel Plate Road, Union Pacific
& Chicago North Western due in September or October 2010.

I have equipment diagrams for the C&NW and NP but none of the others. It
appears to me that the RC 42' flat is at least a good stand-in for for 4
series of C&NW flats.

40001-41019 - built 1922
41021-41419 - built 1923
41501-42499 - built 1925
42501-42699 - built 1927

The Northern Pacific does not appear to have had any flat cars similar to
the RC 42' flat car.

Can anyone comment on whether or not the ATSF, D&RGW, NKP & UP had cars
similar to the RC 42' flat cars? Good stand-in is close enough for my
purposes.

Gene Green


Red Caboose Gen. Ser. SS Gondola

Mark
 

I purchased a Red Caboose General Service steel sided gondola kit. The car is Milwaukee #93143. Would this be correct?

The instructions mention a Southern Pacific version and Union Pacific.

Need one for my layout, based on the B&O in 1957 Newark Division.

Mark Morgan


Re: Intermountain / Red Caboose 42' Fish Belly Flat Car

Mark
 

Gene, I recall that car is NYC!, prototype.

Mark Morgan

--- On Sat, 2/27/10, Gene <bierglaeser@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Gene <bierglaeser@yahoo.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Intermountain / Red Caboose 42' Fish Belly Flat Car
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 6:12 PM







 









Intermountain has announced a run of the Red Caboose 42' Fish Belly Flat Car lettered for ATSF, D&RGW, Northern Pacific, Nickel Plate Road, Union Pacific & Chicago North Western due in September or October 2010.



I have equipment diagrams for the C&NW and NP but none of the others. It appears to me that the RC 42' flat is at least a good stand-in for for 4 series of C&NW flats.



40001-41019 - built 1922

41021-41419 - built 1923

41501-42499 - built 1925

42501-42699 - built 1927



The Northern Pacific does not appear to have had any flat cars similar to the RC 42' flat car.



Can anyone comment on whether or not the ATSF, D&RGW, NKP & UP had cars similar to the RC 42' flat cars? Good stand-in is close enough for my purposes.



Gene Green


Intermountain / Red Caboose 42' Fish Belly Flat Car

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Intermountain has announced a run of the Red Caboose 42' Fish Belly Flat Car lettered for ATSF, D&RGW, Northern Pacific, Nickel Plate Road, Union Pacific & Chicago North Western due in September or October 2010.

I have equipment diagrams for the C&NW and NP but none of the others. It appears to me that the RC 42' flat is at least a good stand-in for for 4 series of C&NW flats.

40001-41019 - built 1922
41021-41419 - built 1923
41501-42499 - built 1925
42501-42699 - built 1927

The Northern Pacific does not appear to have had any flat cars similar to the RC 42' flat car.

Can anyone comment on whether or not the ATSF, D&RGW, NKP & UP had cars similar to the RC 42' flat cars? Good stand-in is close enough for my purposes.

Gene Green

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