Date   

Re: Vulcan Trucks

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tom Madden wrote:
Lack of freight car immersion showing...
Tom "but I can sure tell the difference between 2410 and 2411 Pullman trucks" Madden
Pullman had trucks?? <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Vulcan Trucks

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Tom, that's an Ulrich truck, but not a Vulcan; it's a Bettendorf T-
section.

Richard Hendrickson
Lack of freight car immersion showing...

Tom "but I can sure tell the difference between 2410 and 2411 Pullman trucks" Madden


Re: Vulcan Trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 16, 2010, at 5:43 PM, pullmanboss wrote:

Is this the Ulrich truck you mean, Dennis? (Scroll down in the
listing for an enlarged view.)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ULRICH-40-GS-GONDOLA-Southern-Pacific-
SP-91976_W0QQitemZ230448409129
Tom, that's an Ulrich truck, but not a Vulcan; it's a Bettendorf T-
section.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Vulcan Trucks

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tom Madden wrote:
Is this the Ulrich truck you mean, Dennis? (Scroll down in the listing for an enlarged view.)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ULRICH-40-GS-GONDOLA-Southern-Pacific-SP-91976_W0QQitemZ230448409129
That's a T-section truck, not a Vulcan.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Vulcan Trucks

pullmanboss <tgmadden@...>
 

Here is what he needs:

http://www.irm.org/gallery/CWI1185/aab

These are U section trucks, as I believe the old Ulrich trucks were, but it's been a couple decades since I've seen a pair. At least the Kadee Vulcans will have the distinctive shape at the ends of the sideframes over the boxes.

IIRC, Canada Hobbycraft offered archbar trucks in their TruLine Trains line that had very nice Simplex bolsters. It may be possible that their bolster will fit other sideframes. One can always hope.

Dennis
Is this the Ulrich truck you mean, Dennis? (Scroll down in the listing for an enlarged view.)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ULRICH-40-GS-GONDOLA-Southern-Pacific-SP-91976_W0QQitemZ230448409129

Tom Madden


Re: 50' MDC single sheathed box cars (was Roundhouse 50' End door Boxcar)

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 16, 2010, at 2:53 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Yeah, I could, but that's why I wrote the article and published all
those photos in the first place . . .
I can't find in the article any mention of the single-door
cars.
That's because the models were entirely bogus. When the T&P rebuilt
those cars with wider single doors, they also steel sheathed them.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: New Kadee Trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 16, 2010, at 3:25 PM, soolinehistory wrote:

Would anyone care to measure the centerplate height of these new
trucks? It would be interesting to know if they are still holding
with the obsolete NMRA RP specified 5/16" (.3125")or if they've
joined everybody else at the more prototypical .293"/.298". The
lower height would be more useful, since it is no big deal to shim
a body UP, but lowering it is often a lot of work.
Dennis, the bolster height appears to be the same as on their older
trucks.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: New Kadee Trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 16, 2010, at 3:17 PM, pierreoliver2003 wrote:

One question about the new trucks, Richard.
Are they much lighter than the old metal style?
No, I weighed a new one and an old one with my postal scale, and
they're almost exactly the same, just about 1/4 oz. each.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: New Kadee Trucks

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

... Equally novel is the mounting arrangement;
the trucks come with precision centering sleeves and mounting
screws. They rotate freely around the mounting screws when the car
is on the track but, when the car is picked up, the trucks center,
automatically lining up with the rails and thus rendering re-railing
cars a fumble-free no-brainer. Mounting instructions call for the
removal of truck centering protrusions on the bolsters, where
present; these have often been a problem in the past when changing
trucks because, depending on the manufacturer of the car model, they
have often varied in diameter and height. The Kadee trucks are
intended to be mounted on bolster surfaces which are smooth and flat,
with clearances between the bolster, centering sleeve, and mounting
screw precisely controlled...
I should mention, since we have some manufacturers who inhabit this list, that Kadee has a patent on this centering device, and while I haven't looked at it for years, I suspect it is still active.

Would anyone care to measure the centerplate height of these new trucks? It would be interesting to know if they are still holding with the obsolete NMRA RP specified 5/16" (.3125")or if they've joined everybody else at the more prototypical .293"/.298". The lower height would be more useful, since it is no big deal to shim a body UP, but lowering it is often a lot of work.

Dennis


Re: New Kadee Trucks

pierreoliver2003 <pierre.oliver@...>
 

One question about the new trucks, Richard.
Are they much lighter than the old metal style?
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

I just received in this afternoon's mail several samples of Kadee's
new HO scale HGC trucks. They are even better than they appear in
the photos, which is saying a lot.

We can rejoice that the wimpy "working" springs and largely vacant
spaces in the side frames below the bolsters are gone; springs are
now molded into the side frames, giving a much more realistic
appearance, and the "working" springs never really worked anyway.

The new HGC material produces sharp, precisely molded side frames and
bolsters, and an ingenious split-bolster design provides slight
equalization - ample to handle any reasonable track irregularities -
without excessive slop. Equally novel is the mounting arrangement;
the trucks come with precision centering sleeves and mounting
screws. They rotate freely around the mounting screws when the car
is on the track but, when the car is picked up, the trucks center,
automatically lining up with the rails and thus rendering re-railing
cars a fumble-free no-brainer. Mounting instructions call for the
removal of truck centering protrusions on the bolsters, where
present; these have often been a problem in the past when changing
trucks because, depending on the manufacturer of the car model, they
have often varied in diameter and height. The Kadee trucks are
intended to be mounted on bolster surfaces which are smooth and flat,
with clearances between the bolster, centering sleeve, and mounting
screw precisely controlled. Brake rigging is completely modeled, and
the brake shoes line up properly with the wheel treads.

All the trucks come with Kadee's familiar 110 contour cast metal
wheels on nylon axles, which provide very good rolling qualities
(though perhaps not quite as good as machined metal wheels on
machined metal axles). Those of us who have adopted code 88 semi-
scale wheels as a personal standard should urge Kadee to produce code
88 wheels as a better looking and closer-to-scale alternative.

The 70 ton Barber S-2-B solid bearing trucks are new (Kadee calls
them "friction bearing" trucks, an error for which I'll forgive them,
though only barely). They have appropriately larger journal boxes
and the correct 5'8" wheelbase (in contrast to the 5'6" wheelbase
common to most 50 ton trucks), and three springs per side are nicely
represented, as well as the Barber stabilizing wedges inside the
bolster ends. This is probably the truck that serious steam and
transition era freight car modelers have needed most, and it is a
welcome addition to the Kadee line.

The other trucks are replacements for HO scale trucks that Kadee has
produced for decades, and that used to be regarded as state of the
art. They include Arch Bar trucks with ribbed-back wheel sets and
ASF A-3 and "Bettendorf" trucks with both ribbed-back and smooth-back
wheel sets. In each case, the side frames are essentially the same
as on the former trucks, and are accurately represented. I could
wish Kadee had dropped the inaccurate "Bettendorf" label for what are
more accurately described as AAR double truss self-aligning spring-
plankless trucks, but since they have sold the older version as
"Bettendorf" for so many years, one can understand a reluctance to
confuse customers who aren't especially knowledgeable about prototype
trucks. Presumably, if these new trucks are as well received as they
should be, similar replacements for Kadee's cast metal Andrews,
Bettendorf T-section, Vulcan, and Pennsylvania 2D-F8 will follow. I
certainly hope so, as the early L-section Andrews and Vulcan trucks,
especially, aren't available from any other source.

These new trucks from Kadee are truly revolutionary and, along with
the fine HO scale trucks we've been getting recently from Brian
Leppert at Tahoe Model Works, are a major step forward in both
prototype accuracy and performance.

Richard Hendrickson





Re: Vulcan Trucks

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

Also, who else makes Vulcan trucks?
Ulrich at one time (many years ago) made some fairly decent cast
metal Vulcan trucks in HO scale, and if you can find a pair on the
second-hand market, their side frames may be closer to what you want.

Richard Hendrickson
Here is what he needs:

http://www.irm.org/gallery/CWI1185/aab

These are U section trucks, as I believe the old Ulrich trucks were, but it's been a couple decades since I've seen a pair. At least the Kadee Vulcans will have the distinctive shape at the ends of the sideframes over the boxes.

IIRC, Canada Hobbycraft offered archbar trucks in their TruLine Trains line that had very nice Simplex bolsters. It may be possible that their bolster will fit other sideframes. One can always hope.

Dennis


Re: Vulcan Trucks

Rhbale@...
 

Attached is a Vulcan truck from the 1919 Car Builders Cyclopedia. Note the
size of the rail spikes.

Richard Bale



In a message dated 3/16/2010 6:42:53 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
tgmadden@worldnet.att.net writes:





Tom, that's an Ulrich truck, but not a Vulcan; it's a Bettendorf T-
section.

Richard Hendrickson
Lack of freight car immersion showing...

Tom "but I can sure tell the difference between 2410 and 2411 Pullman
trucks" Madden





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Vulcan Trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 16, 2010, at 1:37 PM, behillman wrote:

Trying to locate some accurate, HO scale, Vulcan trucks, as used on
the Haskell & Barker, C&WI wood gondola, at the Illinois RR Museum.
[snip]

I have seen Bethlehem Car Works Vulcan trucks, Walthers #718-1220,
and Kadee Vulcan trucks, Walthers #380-515 (for references).

The Bethlehem Car Works Vulcan trucks seem to have a name cast on
the end of the bolster but can't read it in "zooming", but the side-
frames are "flatter" on top than the Kadee trucks, which have a
different type truck-bolster.
Since the Kadee trucks can be dismantled, the bolster ends can be
modified with a file.

I can't find better picture references, yet, for Vulcan trucks. Did
Vulcan (ASF) make more than one side-frame design, IE) as Bethlehem
versus Kadee styles?
As in the case of Andrews trucks, which came in as many or more
variants, the name Vulcan identified a construction principle - cast
steel side frames with pedestals into which separate journal boxes
were bolted. ASF made Vulcan trucks over a long period of time, and
side frame configurations varied a lot. Early Vulcan side frames
were L-section, then progressed to a combination of L-section and U-
section, and finally to entirely U-section, as represented by the
Kadee models.

Also, who else makes Vulcan trucks?
Ulrich at one time (many years ago) made some fairly decent cast
metal Vulcan trucks in HO scale, and if you can find a pair on the
second-hand market, their side frames may be closer to what you want.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 50' MDC single sheathed box cars (was Roundhouse 50' End door Boxcar)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Yeah, I could, but that's why I wrote the article and published all those photos in the first place . . .
I can't find in the article any mention of the single-door cars.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 50' MDC single sheathed box cars (was Roundhouse 50' End door Boxcar)

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Mar 16, 2010, at 12:07 PM, Garth G. Groff wrote:

Tim,

IIRC, there were five body castings: double-door with end door,
double-door w/o end door, double-door with WP plate and end door ,
double-door with WP plate and w/o end door, plus wide single door w/o
end doors. I cannot tell you exactly which are correct, except the two
WP plate cars which are both very close to prototype. I think the wide
door is near correct for some T&P rebuilds, and the some double-door
cars without the WP plate are good for T&P and MP. Richard can
probably
advise you better than I.
Yeah, I could, but that's why I wrote the article and published all
those photos in the first place. Been there, done that, and I have
better things to do with my time than produce what amounts to a
reprint for subscribers to the STMFC list.

Richard Hendrickson


New Kadee Trucks

Richard Hendrickson
 

I just received in this afternoon's mail several samples of Kadee's
new HO scale HGC trucks. They are even better than they appear in
the photos, which is saying a lot.

We can rejoice that the wimpy "working" springs and largely vacant
spaces in the side frames below the bolsters are gone; springs are
now molded into the side frames, giving a much more realistic
appearance, and the "working" springs never really worked anyway.

The new HGC material produces sharp, precisely molded side frames and
bolsters, and an ingenious split-bolster design provides slight
equalization - ample to handle any reasonable track irregularities -
without excessive slop. Equally novel is the mounting arrangement;
the trucks come with precision centering sleeves and mounting
screws. They rotate freely around the mounting screws when the car
is on the track but, when the car is picked up, the trucks center,
automatically lining up with the rails and thus rendering re-railing
cars a fumble-free no-brainer. Mounting instructions call for the
removal of truck centering protrusions on the bolsters, where
present; these have often been a problem in the past when changing
trucks because, depending on the manufacturer of the car model, they
have often varied in diameter and height. The Kadee trucks are
intended to be mounted on bolster surfaces which are smooth and flat,
with clearances between the bolster, centering sleeve, and mounting
screw precisely controlled. Brake rigging is completely modeled, and
the brake shoes line up properly with the wheel treads.

All the trucks come with Kadee's familiar 110 contour cast metal
wheels on nylon axles, which provide very good rolling qualities
(though perhaps not quite as good as machined metal wheels on
machined metal axles). Those of us who have adopted code 88 semi-
scale wheels as a personal standard should urge Kadee to produce code
88 wheels as a better looking and closer-to-scale alternative.

The 70 ton Barber S-2-B solid bearing trucks are new (Kadee calls
them "friction bearing" trucks, an error for which I'll forgive them,
though only barely). They have appropriately larger journal boxes
and the correct 5'8" wheelbase (in contrast to the 5'6" wheelbase
common to most 50 ton trucks), and three springs per side are nicely
represented, as well as the Barber stabilizing wedges inside the
bolster ends. This is probably the truck that serious steam and
transition era freight car modelers have needed most, and it is a
welcome addition to the Kadee line.

The other trucks are replacements for HO scale trucks that Kadee has
produced for decades, and that used to be regarded as state of the
art. They include Arch Bar trucks with ribbed-back wheel sets and
ASF A-3 and "Bettendorf" trucks with both ribbed-back and smooth-back
wheel sets. In each case, the side frames are essentially the same
as on the former trucks, and are accurately represented. I could
wish Kadee had dropped the inaccurate "Bettendorf" label for what are
more accurately described as AAR double truss self-aligning spring-
plankless trucks, but since they have sold the older version as
"Bettendorf" for so many years, one can understand a reluctance to
confuse customers who aren't especially knowledgeable about prototype
trucks. Presumably, if these new trucks are as well received as they
should be, similar replacements for Kadee's cast metal Andrews,
Bettendorf T-section, Vulcan, and Pennsylvania 2D-F8 will follow. I
certainly hope so, as the early L-section Andrews and Vulcan trucks,
especially, aren't available from any other source.

These new trucks from Kadee are truly revolutionary and, along with
the fine HO scale trucks we've been getting recently from Brian
Leppert at Tahoe Model Works, are a major step forward in both
prototype accuracy and performance.

Richard Hendrickson


Battleship Iowa (Re: Good News and new Flatcar Load from Winterail)

Benjamin Hom
 

Brian Chapman wrote:
"Why off topic? The topic is how the railroads delivered material to the east coast building docks."

True; however, I recommend we take further discussion off-list as the Navy part of this really isn't on topic.


"I have a quote from the skipper who brought Iowa out of retirement for the Korean War. On a trip from San Francisco to Hawaii, Capt. Smedberg (who nearly put Iowa on the Alcatraz rocks, an interesting story in itself, which comes from a USNI oral history project) told a delegation from the state of Iowa that the Iowa Class, because of its superior maneuverabilty and 33 knot speed, were really "Super Cruisers." This is not the lone Super Cruiser reference to these ships."

I'll take your word for it; however, I'll make a couple of points:

- As far as late-war US Navy capital ships go, "super cruiser" more accurately describes the ALASKA-class "large cruisers", 12-inch gunned ships built in response to a purported class of Japanese battlecruisers that didn't exist.

- Regarding terminology, what Admirals and ship's Commanding Officers will tell constituents state delegations and how the Navy conducts business internally are definitely two different things. I definitely don't impugn Captain Smedberg; however, having given more than my fair share of tours during visit ship, I can tell you that you sometimes have to draw analogies to explain something to folks who don't know the Navy. Having taken his quote out of context, I'm not sure why he described Iowa as a "super cruiser".

- Google "super cruiser" and "fast battleship" and see what comes up.


"The Iowas, because of hull form and 212,000 SHP, were faster (as well as heavier, and the only US Navy ships to carry 16"/50 caliber rifles, so better gunned, too) than the South Dakotas and North Dakotas."

Nobody argued that point. However, these three classes of ships are referred to as "Fast Battleships" in contast to the pre-Washington Treaty battle line of the US Navy, which consisted of ships with maximum speeds of 20-21 knots.

This is my last on-list post on this subject.


Ben Hom


Vulcan Trucks

Paul Hillman
 

Trying to locate some accurate, HO scale, Vulcan trucks, as used on the Haskell & Barker, C&WI wood gondola, at the Illinois RR Museum.

These were identified by Richard Hendrickson as Vulcan Trucks with Simplex truck-bolsters, all made by American Steel Foundries. The name "Simplex" is cast on the end of the truck-bolster. (Thank you Richard.)

I have seen Bethlehem Car Works Vulcan trucks, Walthers #718-1220, and Kadee Vulcan trucks, Walthers #380-515 (for references).

The Bethlehem Car Works Vulcan trucks seem to have a name cast on the end of the bolster but can't read it in "zooming", but the side-frames are "flatter" on top than the Kadee trucks, which have a different type truck-bolster.

I can't find better picture references, yet, for Vulcan trucks. Did Vulcan (ASF) make more than one side-frame design, IE) as Bethlehem versus Kadee styles?

Also, who else makes Vulcan trucks?

Thanks, Paul Hillman


Re: 50' MDC single sheathed box cars (was Roundhouse 50' End door Boxcar)

Andy Carlson
 

You remembered wrong. WP's cars were all Pullman radial roofed.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA


________________________________
From: Jon Miller <atsf@izap.com>



What about the roofs? The ones on ebay were radial however I seem to
remember the WP cars were flat roofs.


Battleship Iowa (Re: Good News and new Flatcar Load from Winterail)

cornbeltroute <cornbeltroute@...>
 

so better gunned, too) than the South Dakotas and North Dakotas. <
Obviously, I meant North Carolina.

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