Date   

Re: dssa boxcar

Tim O'Connor
 

Gene and Mark

No, the Mather kit includes a vertically mounted brake wheel
of a completely different size and style.

The only HO scale Klasing brake wheel of the type used on these
DSS&A box cars was produced by AWE (Anthony Wentzel Enterprises)
for his imported brass "PS-0" early Pullman Standard welded box
cars.

Probably the closest brake wheel in general appearance would be
a Universal brake wheel (with a central "hub" and slanted spokes
radiating to an outer rim). Kadee makes this style.

Tim O'Connor

At 4/4/2010 12:48 PM Sunday, you wrote:
Red Caboose makes a plastic Klasing hand brake for the Mather reefer. This may be the one you need. I understand, unfortunately, that Red Caboose will no longer supply parts.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., "Mark M" <bnonut@...> wrote:

I plan to take an Athearn boxcar and convert it to DSS&A 17000-17099. They used a Klasing brake, any suggestions? Moloco sells two but they look newer.
What trucks would best suit this.

Once again thank to all who are kind to answer questions that I have posted.

Sincerely, Mark Morgan


Re: HO Scale Decals for NYC hoppers

Benjamin Hom
 

Tony Wagner asked:
"I hope someone out there can help me. I need to acquire 20 to 30 sets of decals for NYC hopper cars. I can get decals for 70 ton cars from Westerfield, but as far as 50-55 ton cars are concerned I have been able to use Westerfield's box car decals for capacity data and his hopper decals to get the correct sized oval and "H" lot numbers, thus doubling the expense."

This is another NYC freight car modeling problem that's way tougher than it should be given the popularity of this road, and nobody seems to care enough to push for producing accurate models of COMMON New York Central freight cars (i.e., common not meaning models of USRA SS and DS boxcars, USRA hoppers, AAR boxcars, AAR offset hoppers, PS-1 boxcars, or examples of otherwise common freight cars that were uncommon on the NYC).

That being said, the pickings are pretty slim. C-D-S did three dry transfer sets:
534: USRA twins and clones
535: USRA panel side twin rebuilds
777: Offset twins
Check with Terry Link at http://www.tmrdistributing.com for availability.

Champ HC-91 and HC-458 are still available and can be ordered online at
http://www.minot.com/champ
HC-91 is intended for USRA twins and clones, but lacks lot number stencils. HC-458 has gothic reporting marks with small oval.

Mark Vaughan did decals for Peoria and Eastern hoppers which are carried by Des Plaines Hobbies who still have a few in stock:
http://www.desplaineshobbies.com/store/search/brand/Mark-Vaughan-Decals/page3.html

Microscale has an NYC decal set that letters NYC and Big 4 USRA twins as built (87-368), which is too early for your 1949 timeframe.

Good luck!


Ben Hom


Re: (perishables) interchange

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:
Do NOT mistake the comments about shipper preference and handling issues with perishables for data on the AMOUNT of perishables traffic. This couldn't be farther from the truth! Based on the 1950 ICC freight commodity reports on loads handled, the PRR was the #3 handler of perishables IN THE COUNTRY, behind SP and UP.
Well, PRR handled more of most everything . . . Bruce, do you know how the PRR percentage of total perishable loads would stack up in comparison to their percentage of other load types?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wine cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Perhaps that will help your friend decide whether he can run one on his model railroad with a straight face. (Of course, he can run it anyway with a slightly crooked face.)
Isn't that what we call a "smile" . . . ?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


HO Scale Decals for NYC hoppers

anthony wagner
 

I hope someone out there can help me. I need to acquire 20 to 30 sets of decals for NYC hopper cars. I can get decals for 70 ton cars from Westerfield, but as far as 50-55 ton cars are concerned I have been able to use Westerfield's box car decals for capacity data and his hopper decals to get the correct sized oval and "H" lot numbers, thus doubling the expense. This isn't too bad for one or two cars but for the time period I model (1949) the NYC had a mix of black and red hoppers, both 55 and 70 ton. Gondolas too but that's another subject. The switch occurred in 1943. Any hoppers (or gondolas) painted before then were black, while any acquired or repainted afterward were freight car red (without a black background for the oval, by the way). In the six years since the change in the color of these cars occurred and the year that I model, it would have been virtually impossible for the Central to have repainted all of the black cars already out there, thus the mix of colors. I haven't a clue as to what the proportion of red to black would have been in that it changed continuously as new cars were acquired and older ones were retired or rebuilt and repainted. For my purposes, as far these hoppers are concerned, I'm figuring that about 1/3 of them were still painted black. That is just a guess however. In 1936 as the Central began consolidating the MC and Big Four cars into the main roster,it not only renumbered and repainted them, but its own cars as well, so that by 1949 there were very few cars with MC or CCC&StL initials left in service. I'm guessing that they were also painted black or red in about the same proportion as the NYC cars. Tony Wagner


Re: (perishables) interchange

Bruce Smith
 

Al,

No, just totals are shown.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"al_brown03" <abrown@...> 04/04/10 3:35 PM >>>
Do the ICC reports (or any other data) split out perishables moving
west-to-east from those moving south-to-north? For perishables off the
SAL or ACL moving to the northeast, there weren't too many practical
routings, the most direct of which were PRR and B&O. From the west,
there were more alternatives.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Thomas Baker <bakert@...> 04/04/10 10:27 AM >>>
People have pointed out the the Pennsy was the least preferred
forwarder
as far as PFE/SFRD were concerned with the NYC, and B&O not far from
the
bottom of the list. Does someone out there know who got most of the
meat and perishablies--if there were any--from the CGW. The list
mentions the ERIE as the road that reliably delivered.

Tom,

I'm not sure about the CGW specifically, but your email hints at a
problem that occurs every time this discussion comes up. Do NOT
mistake
the comments about shipper preference and handling issues with
perishables for data on the AMOUNT of perishables traffic. This
couldn't be farther from the truth! Based on the 1950 ICC freight
commodity reports on loads handled, the PRR was the #3 handler of
perishables IN THE COUNTRY, behind SP and UP.

The numbers go like this:
UP 248072 loads
SP 190755
PRR 145712
ATSF 107402 - I know that hurts Richard ;^) but I also know he takes
pride that although ATSF only handled a little over 2/3 of the
perishables that PRR did, they did it better <G>

Next, in quick succession come IC, NYC and CB&Q (77340, 74240, 71759
respectively)

In the next grouping are ACL, Seaboard, finally the vaunted Erie and
NKP
(50805, 48795, 45105, 43154 respectively)

So, while the PFE and SFRD management and employees may well have
preferred Erie to PRR and NYC, by far the biggest hauler of
perishables
was the PRR. Dems da facts...

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: (perishables) interchange

al_brown03
 

Do the ICC reports (or any other data) split out perishables moving west-to-east from those moving south-to-north? For perishables off the SAL or ACL moving to the northeast, there weren't too many practical routings, the most direct of which were PRR and B&O. From the west, there were more alternatives.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Thomas Baker <bakert@...> 04/04/10 10:27 AM >>>
People have pointed out the the Pennsy was the least preferred forwarder
as far as PFE/SFRD were concerned with the NYC, and B&O not far from the
bottom of the list. Does someone out there know who got most of the
meat and perishablies--if there were any--from the CGW. The list
mentions the ERIE as the road that reliably delivered.

Tom,

I'm not sure about the CGW specifically, but your email hints at a
problem that occurs every time this discussion comes up. Do NOT mistake
the comments about shipper preference and handling issues with
perishables for data on the AMOUNT of perishables traffic. This
couldn't be farther from the truth! Based on the 1950 ICC freight
commodity reports on loads handled, the PRR was the #3 handler of
perishables IN THE COUNTRY, behind SP and UP.

The numbers go like this:
UP 248072 loads
SP 190755
PRR 145712
ATSF 107402 - I know that hurts Richard ;^) but I also know he takes
pride that although ATSF only handled a little over 2/3 of the
perishables that PRR did, they did it better <G>

Next, in quick succession come IC, NYC and CB&Q (77340, 74240, 71759
respectively)

In the next grouping are ACL, Seaboard, finally the vaunted Erie and NKP
(50805, 48795, 45105, 43154 respectively)

So, while the PFE and SFRD management and employees may well have
preferred Erie to PRR and NYC, by far the biggest hauler of perishables
was the PRR. Dems da facts...

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: (perishables) interchange

Bruce Smith
 

Thomas Baker <bakert@...> 04/04/10 10:27 AM >>>
People have pointed out the the Pennsy was the least preferred forwarder
as far as PFE/SFRD were concerned with the NYC, and B&O not far from the
bottom of the list. Does someone out there know who got most of the
meat and perishablies--if there were any--from the CGW. The list
mentions the ERIE as the road that reliably delivered.

Tom,

I'm not sure about the CGW specifically, but your email hints at a
problem that occurs every time this discussion comes up. Do NOT mistake
the comments about shipper preference and handling issues with
perishables for data on the AMOUNT of perishables traffic. This
couldn't be farther from the truth! Based on the 1950 ICC freight
commodity reports on loads handled, the PRR was the #3 handler of
perishables IN THE COUNTRY, behind SP and UP.

The numbers go like this:
UP 248072 loads
SP 190755
PRR 145712
ATSF 107402 - I know that hurts Richard ;^) but I also know he takes
pride that although ATSF only handled a little over 2/3 of the
perishables that PRR did, they did it better <G>

Next, in quick succession come IC, NYC and CB&Q (77340, 74240, 71759
respectively)

In the next grouping are ACL, Seaboard, finally the vaunted Erie and NKP
(50805, 48795, 45105, 43154 respectively)

So, while the PFE and SFRD management and employees may well have
preferred Erie to PRR and NYC, by far the biggest hauler of perishables
was the PRR. Dems da facts...

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Wine cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Apr 4, 2010, at 12:17 PM, Andrew Miller wrote:

Richard,

It is the Red Caboose HO kit for a wooden express milk car with
tanks. I believe it is Chateau Martin....
Chateau Martin cars ran in dedicated service from San Martin,
California (north of Hollister, south of San Jose) to New York City.
Based on the sightings I know about, the route was apparently San
Martin to Ogden via the Southern Pacific, Ogden to Chicago via the
Union Pacific and Chicago & Northwestern, and Chicago to New York via
the New York Central. However, that's informed speculation, not
documented fact. They may have gone to other destinations as well,
but I know of no evidence for that. Perhaps that will help your
friend decide whether he can run one on his model railroad with a
straight face. (Of course, he can run it anyway with a slightly
crooked face.)

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Wine cars

Andrew Miller <aslmmiller@...>
 

Richard,

It is the Red Caboose HO kit for a wooden express milk car with tanks. I believe it is Chateau Mrtin, Night Train sounds good ;-)

regards,

Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Hendrickson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 12:44 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wine cars



On Apr 3, 2010, at 8:24 PM, Andrew Miller wrote:

> A club member recently won an HO wine car as a door prize and
> wondered, were these cars used everywhere in interchange or were
> they in dedicated service in the locale of some California winery
> whose name they carried?

Andy, you didn't indicate the nature of the wine car (insulated ICC
203 tank car, non-insulated tank car, or express reefer with tanks),
or the shipper for which it was lettered. With more information, I
can give you a more detailed and confident response; I've developed a
Power Point clinic on wine cars for prototype modelers' meets which
includes ca. 60 photos and much historical information. However, in
general, though some wine cars were in more or less local service,
many carried bulk wine from California to bottlers all over the
country - everywhere from St. Louis and Chicago to New Jersey, New
York City, and even relatively rural Maine. You wouldn't have seen
them on branch lines unless there was a consignee on the branch, but
there were several hundred of them and they were photographed en
route on east-west main lines or being switched at major terminals
like Chicago and Kansas City. Keep in mind, however, that premium
table wines were bottled and shipped by the case in refrigerator or
insulated box cars; only the cheaper wines, often fortified with
brandy, were shipped in bulk - in terms of today's brands, think
Night Train and Thunderbird, not Kendall-Jackson or Louis Martini.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Wine cars

Andrew Miller <aslmmiller@...>
 

Thanx Mike. That's what I need to know.


regards,

Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: michael bishop
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, April 04, 2010 12:07 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wine cars



Andrew,
The Chateau Martin cars went from Cal to NY.
http://coastdaylight.com/chatmart/cmwx_roster_1.html

As did many of the other wineries cars did at one time.

Michael


--- On Sat, 4/3/10, Andrew Miller <aslmmiller@...> wrote:

From: Andrew Miller <aslmmiller@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Wine cars
To: STMFC@...
Date: Saturday, April 3, 2010, 8:24 PM



A club member recently won an HO wine car as a door prize and wondered, were these cars used everywhere in interchange or were they in dedicated service in the locale of some California winery whose name they carried?

Andy Miller

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: National Perishable Freight Committee

water.kresse@...
 

So far, in Virginia/kentucky, I've only seen bushels of peanuts and mellons loose on straw in ventilated boxes.  I'm guessing root cellar type veggies could do OK also at certan times of the year?



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: brianleppert@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, April 4, 2010 2:49:39 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] Re: National Perishable Freight Committee



--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:

Do these cover ventilator box car operations also?
Yes

 . . . especially what would typically be carried in ventilated box cars vs. refrig and vent box cars?

Yes

I would guess it would be regional also
Not really, except it does cover rules for cars traveling into or thru Canada.  Temperatures and time of year, however, are covered.  

 

Al Kresse

Romeo, Michigan
Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: National Perishable Freight Committee

brianleppert@att.net
 

--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:

Do these cover ventilator box car operations also?
Yes

. . . especially what would typically be carried in ventilated box cars vs. refrig and vent box cars?

Yes

I would guess it would be regional also
Not really, except it does cover rules for cars traveling into or thru Canada. Temperatures and time of year, however, are covered.



Al Kresse

Romeo, Michigan
Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: National Perishable Freight Committee

water.kresse@...
 

Do these cover ventilator box car operations also?  . . . especially what would typically be carried in ventilated box cars vs. refrig and vent box cars?   I would guess it would be regional also?  The C&O sold its reefers to FGEX in th 30s but kept its ventilated and insulated boxes into the 50s.  Ventilated boxes could be used as expensive lined box cars for most of the season.



Al Kresse

Romeo, Michigan

----- Original Message -----
From: brianleppert@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sunday, April 4, 2010 1:59:24 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] Re: National Perishable Freight Committee



Chuck,

I don't think that many know about these circulars.  I won one from 1948 on Ebay cheap--I was the only bidder.  Full name for it was "Circular No. 20-C, Code of Rules for Handling Perishable Freight".  21 pages of fine print, covering everything one would want to know about what reefers could carry and how to protect their loads.

Mine spent quite awhile in the convenient magazine rack in the bathroom. Just lots of neat info!

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

--- In STMFC@..., "lnnrr" <lnnrr@...> wrote:

There have been frequent and long discussions here on the subjects
of refrigerated freight, their cars, companies, routes, and destinations. I can't recall the mention of the National Perishable
Freight Committee


Re: 1934 and 1936 ORER Help

drgwrail
 

Tony:
 
Checked out the ORERs at the Co RR Museum yesterday. The only ones prior to 1900 they have are:
 
1888
1893
Feb 1898
Sep 1898
 
From 1900 on there are only one or two gaps but they are pretty much all there, one for each year.
 
BTW  Duplicate ORERS often show up in the annual mail order book auction. I beleive the current one is almost over but you can see what is on the current auction listing by going to the Museum website.
 
Chuck Y
Boulder CO

--- On Thu, 4/1/10, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:


From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 1934 and 1936 ORER Help
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, April 1, 2010, 4:57 PM


 



Chuck Yungkurth wrote:
The Library at the Colorado Railroad Museum has one issue of the
ORER for each year published. They will copy pages for 30 cents each
plus postage.
Going back how early, Chuck? I'd sure like to find more 19th
century issues available somewhere convenient.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: National Perishable Freight Committee

brianleppert@att.net
 

Chuck,

I don't think that many know about these circulars. I won one from 1948 on Ebay cheap--I was the only bidder. Full name for it was "Circular No. 20-C, Code of Rules for Handling Perishable Freight". 21 pages of fine print, covering everything one would want to know about what reefers could carry and how to protect their loads.

Mine spent quite awhile in the convenient magazine rack in the bathroom. Just lots of neat info!

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

--- In STMFC@..., "lnnrr" <lnnrr@...> wrote:

There have been frequent and long discussions here on the subjects
of refrigerated freight, their cars, companies, routes, and destinations. I can't recall the mention of the National Perishable
Freight Committee


UP 34' ~1895 Boxcar 66070

David Allen
 

Mr. Thompson wrote: "so the 'somewhat taller' statement strikes me as
an exaggeration." Given the way I phrased my statement I completely
agree, since I implied only about 1" difference in height.

But what I meant to say was that the 45000-46095 and the 55000-
57211 cars were shorter as follows:

More often than not no Winslow Roofs 1"
Lighter frames (4"x8" timbers rather than 5"x9") 1"
Interior height ranged from 6'4" to 6'9" 0"-5"
------
Range of height difference 2"-7"

The 65000-68499 are, indeed, somewhat taller. Is it meaningful? When
the Silver Crash kits came out they fit the earlier cars quite nicely
while a couple of scratchbuilt cars I made fit the latter. The modeled
difference in height is subtle (about 3") but, when end-to-end,
noticeable. Still, I would have little compunction numbering the
Silver Crash cars into the 65000-67499 series if I had not already
modeled the taller cars.

(By the way, Tony, my model of a CS-31 is just about complete,
awaiting only some light weathering. Never would have been possible
without SP Freight Cars Vol, 4. I am now starting a CS-20)

Dave A.


Re: UP 34' ~1895 Boxcar 66070

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dennis Storzek wrote:
Yeah, but... There was also an air space, about an inch or so, between the outer sheathing and the metal roof sheet..
The real spotting feature of these roofs is they looked bulkier... Where the double board roof was simply two layers of 1" stock, actually typically 13/16" for a total thickness of 1-5/8", and the outside metal roofs ended on a small fascia just slightly overhanging the car side (or not, the original construction of the USRA double sheathed cars put this fascia flush with the car siding) inside metal roofs had a second fascia spaced out from the first to allow drainage of any water would weep through the board roof.
Dennis is right, though the much later USRA cars may not have had too much in common with the 1890s car we started on. The 1906 "Cyc" (actually the Dictionary) has a nice section showing cross- sections of the various inside metal roofs. Spacers between the two layers appear to add about an inch to total car height. Adding that inch to the 13/16-inch thickness of the outer roof, I will still say that the cars were not MUCH taller than their wooden-roof siblings.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Jeffrey White
 

Rich,
I have been unable to locate a photo of IC 62600 - 62609. I did find these 60 foot cars in an IC freight car diagram book. From the illustration they appear to be fishbelly cars. The dimensions show a clearance of 13 1/2 inches at the bottom of the fishbelly side so I think the drawing is correct.

I can scan the page and email it to you if you need it.

Jeff White
Alma, IL

richtownsend@... wrote:



I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59 ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on line somewhere:

IC 62600-62609
WAB 400-447
ATSF 90900-91191
CB&Q 94000-94099 (I doubt these were fishbelly)
CMStP&P 49000-49049
CRI&P 93000-93048
SLSW 85500-85549
SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon



Re: dssa boxcar

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Red Caboose makes a plastic Klasing hand brake for the Mather reefer. This may be the one you need. I understand, unfortunately, that Red Caboose will no longer supply parts.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., "Mark M" <bnonut@...> wrote:

I plan to take an Athearn boxcar and convert it to DSS&A 17000-17099. They used a Klasing brake, any suggestions? Moloco sells two but they look newer.
What trucks would best suit this.

Once again thank to all who are kind to answer questions that I have posted.

Sincerely, Mark Morgan

107781 - 107800 of 197109