Date   

Re: Perishable Schedules

Greg Martin
 

Al Brown writes:

It was countered that PRR handled a lot of perishables. I'm wondering whether PRR's perishable volume means that the preference just mentioned wasn't really all that strong, or does it mean that a lot of perishables came through gateways where there wasn't much choice? To tell, ideally one would want a gateway-by-gateway breakdown of the roads receiving perishable traffic.






The charts that appeared in TKM corresponding to perishable fruit and vegetables clear showed that the PRR handled more carloads of perishables than any other eastern carrier... the keyword is ~carloads handled ~ That accounted for loads generated online, at interchange, as a bridge and as a delivering carrier and as consolidated and then for furtherance and was the case for all the railroads in the study. Randy Williamson did some traffic studies along these lines in terms of revenue generated (based on rates per hundred weight) and share the study with Bruce, Elden and myself and was encouraged to publish his findings as it did break the totals down as I have described them in ICC terms. To date I have not seen the study published. Randy also has a vast collection of PRR perishable routings as well.

Checking the archives for this might be helpful as the late Tim Gilbert had added much to the original discussion regarding tonage totals as well, there in my lie the PRR interhange information for the north~south traffic as we had several emails privately regarding the PRR perishable business.

Greg Martin


Re: Wine cars

leakinmywaders
 

While I favor Paul's "free lunch" explanation as most likely, and have also heard about routings designed to avoid Chicago handoffs, is there a possibility that in the summer months a northern routing might have been favored as possibly reducing heat stress on the cargo? After all these were insulated but not refrigerated cars, traveling all the way across the continent.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@..., "Paul" <buygone@...> wrote:
... I would be willing to bet some silver tongued salesman for
SP&S, NP or CBQ did some entertaining with a lunch or dinner for that route.
Been there done that.
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
...

Matt Herson wrote:
...
"... It is routed SP-SP&S-NP-CB&Q-NYC."
This sounds like a shipper-specified routing. And remember
that SP had a very friendly relation with NP, so that connection would
have been acceptable. Why the shipper wanted a northern routing,
though, is unclear, unless it was some aspect of dependable service.


Re: interchange (Meat from CGW)

drgwrail
 

I think most of the meat handled by the NKP reached the NY city area via the DL&W and LV.
 
As a kid I remember significant numbers of meat reefers from Kingan,Cudahy, Swift, etc. on the DL&W. Also in the 40's there wasa huge wreck on the LV near Wilkes-Barre and the railroad sold off several carloads of sides of beef right at the wreck site.
 
Chuck Y
Boulder CO

--- On Mon, 4/5/10, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:


From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: interchange (Meat from CGW)
To: STMFC@...
Date: Monday, April 5, 2010, 10:29 PM


 



Doug Harding wrote:
NYC served the many meat branch houses on the west side high line in
New York City. So yes the NYC handled meat, it pretty much had the
bulk of the meat traffic to Manhattan/New York City. But it could be
the NYC interchanged with NKP somewhere east of Chicago. Routing was
set by the shipper, or the shipper's agent, so they could have
selected NKP then NYC to the west side high line.
Sure, and obviously produce as well as meat often HAD to travel
on NYC or PRR just to reach its destination. My comments about
PREFERENCES only reflect relative service quality, and I certainly did
not mean to suggest that PRR or NYC or B&O or anyone else could be
avoided ENTIRELY.
Shippers had the absolute right to select routing if they
wished, and large shippers had traffic managers to do just that to the
best advantage of the shipper. But many, especially smaller shippers,
could and did call on their local agent for advice, and that advice
would usually be to maximize home-road mileage if possible--after that
it would depend on what that local agent knew about service, rates and
routing to the desired destination. Agents could not be true experts
on things like tariffs and routing, and sometimes might recommend
something less than optimum, out of ignorance, or of course to benefit
their own road if possible.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress. com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: interchange (Meat from CGW)

Thomas Baker
 

Clark,

That would make sense, but I was never sure about meat traffic from
Mason City transferred to the CGW at Marshalltown.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
rockroll50401
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 9:53 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: interchange (Meat from CGW)



I was told (or assumed) the Decker meat the M&StL gave to the CGW at
Marshalltown was bound for KC.

I would need to refer to time tables to make sure.

The CGW cars were put just ahead of the caboose so the M'town switcher
could cut them off the DMX as soon as it arrived and shuffle them over
to the waiting CGW train.

Clark Propst



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: interchange (Meat from CGW)

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Tony what you say is true. Which is why I suggested that some of that meat arriving on the highline may have traveled first on the
NKP before it went to the NYC. To get to the branch houses on the west side of the city the car had to travel on the NYC at some
point, at the end of it's journey, but this does not imply it traveled NYC all the way from Chicago to New York City. Meat
shippers along with produce shippers wanted speed. NPK and Erie were noted for speed.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: interchange (Meat from CGW)

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

I was told (or assumed) the Decker meat the M&StL gave to the CGW at Marshalltown was bound for KC.

I would need to refer to time tables to make sure.

The CGW cars were put just ahead of the caboose so the M'town switcher could cut them off the DMX as soon as it arrived and shuffle them over to the waiting CGW train.

Clark Propst


Re: interchange (Perishable Connections)

railwayman <stevelucas3@...>
 

The hottest train on the Canada Division of the NYC was NY-4. AFAIK, it ran Chicago-Elkhart-Jackson-Detroit-St. Thomas-Niagara Falls, NY, then on the Falls Road Line to Rochester, joining the "Water Level Route" to New York City for the rest of its trip.

In using this routing, NYC saved substantial time and delay by not going through Cleveland and Toledo, not to mention Buffalo. Travel times for trains like NY-4 were cited as being up to eight hours quicker through Canada. NY-4 was cited as being comprised of ATSF reefers and NYC stock cars.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "switchengines" <jrs060@...> wrote:

Tom, and Brian, you both are no doubt correct about some of the meat going
to the NYC. The figures that I had seen from a presentation that Jim Singer did
at Naperville a few years ago confirmed that NYC got a huge portion of the
perishable traffic to the east. And if you think about it, it makes perfect sense,
it's a good connections, with fast routing to the population centers of the east,
and with many consignees served by NYC railroad itself, this is all perfectly
understandable.
MC (NYC) handled it's hot perishable traffic through Canada to Buffalo. With
MC having hot connecting trains off the IHB, at Blue Island, and out of Joliet, off
the Santa Fe, to handle the traffic. Many great photos exist to show how big this
interchange was, and how it worked. What amazes me is how many Santa Fe
modelers have no clue as to how this worked in the Chicago area. All one really
has to do is look at the photos, and talk with some of the IHB/NYC retired rail-
roaders. They can easily identify the trains origin by the cars, lots of PFE's and
meat reefers, a Blue Island connection, SFRD's, a Joliet connection.
What a lot of this boils down to is very simple, the shipper has the right to
route his freight as he sees fit. Many reasons may exist to influence his choice,
rates, connecting times, train schedules, and the railroad serving the consignee
at destination, are but a few. Now it's easy to understand that a large packing
house would easily be turning out loads for many of it's branch houses in the
population centers, most of the traffic is moving to the east. Now, of course you
are going to get different routes to the destinations cities-----and yes, some of
them may even be going to the Pennsy.

Happiness, Jerry Stewart

Woodstock, Illinois


Re: dssa boxcar

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Mark;

No, go ahead, but if you would, you should approach Nick with a copy of that
article, and some photos of those wheels and housings. It would go a long
way to explaining things....

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Mark
Morgan
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 7:24 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar



Thanks Elden, would you mind if this is forwarded to Nick at Moloco? Might
bug you later on PRR stuff as it comes along!

Sincerely, Mark Morgan

________________________________
From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...
<mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, April 6, 2010 7:06:01 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar

Folks;

I had looked at the Moloco offering earlier, and had hoped that we would get
an earlier wheel, too, but we still do not seem to have any of the earlier
style wheels available to us. This new set is very detailed, and appreciated
for those applications for which it is suited, but it contains only the
stamped late (post-mid-50' s or so) Klasing wheel with the two later
housings, not the earlier cast 28-hole wheel, or the even earlier ~20-hole
cast wheel; both of which we still need.

Several needed wheels could conceivably be done in etched brass, to avoid the
costly making of masters for cast plastic wheels, among them both earlier
Klasing wheels, but also the early Equipcos (the ones with solid and round
holed center hubs (the latter dominating the early fleet of PRR X31A round
roofs), the scalloped Superior wheel, and the early Peacock that looks like a
URECO. We also need housings, and also a Klasing pump brake for gons.

The RP Cyc issue with the article on handbrakes is a must-read on this
subject.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Mark Morgan
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:32 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar

Tim and Gene, Thank You.

I have found something that looks similar:

http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-a
<http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-
a>
jax-universal- 2.html
<http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-
<http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-
ajax-universal- 2.html>

Any suggestions?

Mark Morgan

--- On Sun, 4/4/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ comcast.net
<mailto:timboconnor %40comcast. net> > wrote:

From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ comcast.net <mailto:timboconnor %40comcast.
net> >
Subject: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com>
Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 8:34 PM

Gene and Mark

No, the Mather kit includes a vertically mounted brake wheel

of a completely different size and style.

The only HO scale Klasing brake wheel of the type used on these

DSS&A box cars was produced by AWE (Anthony Wentzel Enterprises)

for his imported brass "PS-0" early Pullman Standard welded box

cars.

Probably the closest brake wheel in general appearance would be

a Universal brake wheel (with a central "hub" and slanted spokes

radiating to an outer rim). Kadee makes this style.

Tim O'Connor

At 4/4/2010 12:48 PM Sunday, you wrote:

Red Caboose makes a plastic Klasing hand brake for the Mather reefer.
This
may be the one you need. I understand, unfortunately, that Red Caboose will
no longer supply parts.

Gene Green
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Mark M" <bnonut@...> wrote:
I plan to take an Athearn boxcar and convert it to DSS&A 17000-17099.
They
used a Klasing brake, any suggestions? Moloco sells two but they look newer.

What trucks would best suit this.
Once again thank to all who are kind to answer questions that I have
posted.

Sincerely, Mark Morgan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: dssa boxcar

Mark
 

Thanks Elden, would you mind if this is forwarded to Nick at Moloco? Might bug you later on PRR stuff as it comes along!

Sincerely, Mark Morgan





________________________________
From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tue, April 6, 2010 7:06:01 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar


Folks;

I had looked at the Moloco offering earlier, and had hoped that we would get
an earlier wheel, too, but we still do not seem to have any of the earlier
style wheels available to us. This new set is very detailed, and appreciated
for those applications for which it is suited, but it contains only the
stamped late (post-mid-50' s or so) Klasing wheel with the two later housings,
not the earlier cast 28-hole wheel, or the even earlier ~20-hole cast wheel;
both of which we still need.

Several needed wheels could conceivably be done in etched brass, to avoid the
costly making of masters for cast plastic wheels, among them both earlier
Klasing wheels, but also the early Equipcos (the ones with solid and round
holed center hubs (the latter dominating the early fleet of PRR X31A round
roofs), the scalloped Superior wheel, and the early Peacock that looks like a
URECO. We also need housings, and also a Klasing pump brake for gons.

The RP Cyc issue with the article on handbrakes is a must-read on this
subject.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mark
Morgan
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:32 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar



Tim and Gene, Thank You.

I have found something that looks similar:

http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-a
jax-universal- 2.html
<http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-
ajax-universal- 2.html>

Any suggestions?

Mark Morgan

--- On Sun, 4/4/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ comcast.net
<mailto:timboconnor %40comcast. net> > wrote:

From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ comcast.net
<mailto:timboconnor %40comcast. net> >
Subject: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com>
Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 8:34 PM



Gene and Mark

No, the Mather kit includes a vertically mounted brake wheel

of a completely different size and style.

The only HO scale Klasing brake wheel of the type used on these

DSS&A box cars was produced by AWE (Anthony Wentzel Enterprises)

for his imported brass "PS-0" early Pullman Standard welded box

cars.

Probably the closest brake wheel in general appearance would be

a Universal brake wheel (with a central "hub" and slanted spokes

radiating to an outer rim). Kadee makes this style.

Tim O'Connor

At 4/4/2010 12:48 PM Sunday, you wrote:

Red Caboose makes a plastic Klasing hand brake for the Mather reefer. This
may be the one you need. I understand, unfortunately, that Red Caboose will
no longer supply parts.

Gene Green
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Mark M" <bnonut@...> wrote:
I plan to take an Athearn boxcar and convert it to DSS&A 17000-17099. They
used a Klasing brake, any suggestions? Moloco sells two but they look newer.

What trucks would best suit this.
Once again thank to all who are kind to answer questions that I have
posted.

Sincerely, Mark Morgan











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: dssa boxcar

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Folks;

I had looked at the Moloco offering earlier, and had hoped that we would get
an earlier wheel, too, but we still do not seem to have any of the earlier
style wheels available to us. This new set is very detailed, and appreciated
for those applications for which it is suited, but it contains only the
stamped late (post-mid-50's or so) Klasing wheel with the two later housings,
not the earlier cast 28-hole wheel, or the even earlier ~20-hole cast wheel;
both of which we still need.

Several needed wheels could conceivably be done in etched brass, to avoid the
costly making of masters for cast plastic wheels, among them both earlier
Klasing wheels, but also the early Equipcos (the ones with solid and round
holed center hubs (the latter dominating the early fleet of PRR X31A round
roofs), the scalloped Superior wheel, and the early Peacock that looks like a
URECO. We also need housings, and also a Klasing pump brake for gons.

The RP Cyc issue with the article on handbrakes is a must-read on this
subject.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Mark
Morgan
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:32 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar



Tim and Gene, Thank You.

I have found something that looks similar:

http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-a
jax-universal-2.html
<http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-
ajax-universal-2.html>

Any suggestions?

Mark Morgan

--- On Sun, 4/4/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> > wrote:

From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
Subject: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 8:34 PM



Gene and Mark

No, the Mather kit includes a vertically mounted brake wheel

of a completely different size and style.

The only HO scale Klasing brake wheel of the type used on these

DSS&A box cars was produced by AWE (Anthony Wentzel Enterprises)

for his imported brass "PS-0" early Pullman Standard welded box

cars.

Probably the closest brake wheel in general appearance would be

a Universal brake wheel (with a central "hub" and slanted spokes

radiating to an outer rim). Kadee makes this style.

Tim O'Connor

At 4/4/2010 12:48 PM Sunday, you wrote:

Red Caboose makes a plastic Klasing hand brake for the Mather reefer. This
may be the one you need. I understand, unfortunately, that Red Caboose will
no longer supply parts.

Gene Green
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Mark M" <bnonut@...> wrote:
I plan to take an Athearn boxcar and convert it to DSS&A 17000-17099. They
used a Klasing brake, any suggestions? Moloco sells two but they look newer.

What trucks would best suit this.
Once again thank to all who are kind to answer questions that I have
posted.

Sincerely, Mark Morgan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Perishable Schedules

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Al Brown wrote:
The thread was originally about routings chosen by western shippers of perishables, and it's said they preferred Erie or Nickel Plate to PRR or NYC or B&O. It was countered that PRR handled a lot of perishables. I'm wondering whether PRR's perishable volume means that the preference just mentioned wasn't really all that strong, or does it mean that a lot of perishables came through gateways where there wasn't much choice?
I understand your confusion, Al, but I think you are mixing up two different things. The fact was that PRR and NYC and B&O served an awful lot of the U.S. population in, say, the 1950s. Note that Bruce Smith mentioned carloads, and of course many, many carloads HAD to travel the "undesirable" roads at the end of the trip. That doesn't mean they traveled those roads any farther than absolutely necessary. It would be interesting to compare carload-miles to total carloads. And of course shippers didn't have to listen to their local PFE agent unless they wanted to; if they didn't mind damage claims (after all, the railroad paid), they could ship as much on the PRR as they liked.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wine cars

Paul <buygone@...>
 

On a move California to New York, you could route via the direct route
(overland) or the Northern or Southern route at no additional cost to the
shipper or consignee who ever was paying the bill. You all are forgetting
the free lunch. I would be willing to bet some silver tongued salesman for
SP&S, NP or CBQ did some entertaining with a lunch or dinner for that route.
Been there done that.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 7:15 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Wine cars





Matt Herson wrote:
The citation is from Russ Strodtz from a posting on his Rail Freight
Group.
"For example I've got a copy of a bill in front of me for a CMWX car
of wine. San Martin CA to Bronx NY. No diversions involved, just a
straight routing. It is routed SP-SP&S-NP-CB&Q-NYC."
This sounds like a shipper-specified routing. And remember
that SP had a very friendly relation with NP, so that connection would
have been acceptable. Why the shipper wanted a northern routing,
though, is unclear, unless it was some aspect of dependable service.
I've read that some routings were created specifically to solve the
Chicago-handoff problem.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com> ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Perishable Schedules

al_brown03
 

Neat stuff! And needless to say, I look forward with fascination to Bill's FGE/WFEX/BREX masterwork.

That said, I used the word "northeast" narrowly, to mean the Boston-Washington corridor and New England. I'd have described the destinations Bill cites as "midwestern", including Buffalo since one got there via NKP. My New Jersey upbringing is many years in the past, but I guess it shows when I least expect it to!

The thread was originally about routings chosen by western shippers of perishables, and it's said they preferred Erie or Nickel Plate to PRR or NYC or B&O. It was countered that PRR handled a lot of perishables. I'm wondering whether PRR's perishable volume means that the preference just mentioned wasn't really all that strong, or does it mean that a lot of perishables came through gateways where there wasn't much choice? To tell, ideally one would want a gateway-by-gateway breakdown of the roads receiving perishable traffic.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

I have been fortunate to scan several "Perishable Schedules"
published by the ACL, SAL, and L&N and anticipate accessing several
more including a group published by the Southern soon. I also have
one from the Charleston & Western Carolina. Many of these were loaned
to me to scan by collector and dealer Kent Hannah plus my friends
John King and Jim Singer.

All of these help draw a picture of the way Fruit Growers Express
traffic moved from the southeast to the major markets of the
northeast and upper midwest, which involved many other railroads in
addition to the B&O and PRR (this is not said to diminish the volume
of either of these RR's).

A nice example is the relatively simple schedule published by the
C&WC for train #97 which originated in Augusta, GA (with reefers
originating from the ACL, SAL and FEC) and was handed off to the
Clinchfield at Spartanburg, SC to travel behind their Challengers
(and later grey & yellow EMD F-5's) to the C&O at Elkhorn City, KY.
From here the C&O moved FGE's traffic to:

Buffalo, NY via the NKP
Charleston, VW
Chicago, IL
Cincinnati, OH
Cleveland, OH via the NKP
Detroit, MI via NYC in some cases
Flint, MI
Ft Wayne, IN via the NKP
Fostoria, OH
Grand Rapids, MI
Huntington, WV
Lansing, MI
Saginaw, MI
Toledo, OH
Toronto, ON via CP
Toronto, ON via D&TSL-GT-CN

Another example was part of the schedule from Birmingham, AL for cars
delivered by the Seaboard Airline

Lv. B'ham 7 PM Wed. via the I.C. to Ar. Chicago 11 PM Thurs.
Lv. B'ham 7:30 PM Wed. via the SL-SF to Kansas City, Ar. Thurs. 4 AM
Lv. B'ham 4 AM Thurs. via the GM&O to Memphis Ar. 8:30 PM Thurs.

Bill Welch


Re: Sale of Champ Decals

al_brown03
 

They sure are. I placed an order the first of this month, and have received it.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

Is Champ still selling their decals? I placed an online order last
month and did not get a reply. I wasn't sure if it was them or my lack
of computer skills.

Bill pardie
On Apr 5, 2010, at 11:35 AM, cvlk wrote:

The price of Champ should be based on what Walthers got for their
decal business......

....from what I understand, they offered the whole works....
screens, plates, etc... to whoever would back a truck up to the
warehouse and get rid of it for them. Presumably Whatever research
materials existed long since passed over to the manufacturing side
of WKW.
They didn't have any takers from what I've heard. The only thing of
value for a non-digital based business would be the source material
and perhaps some of the original artwork if it were scanable.

Nobody (well, I probably shouldn't make that statement... almost
nobody) in their right mind would base a venture on pen and ink
drawing of artwork for decal production today.
The costs and quality that computer-based art and processes allow
are the only viable basis for a for-profit business. Of course, we
are talking about the HOBBY Industry so the rules are apparently a
little different.....

We will see some viable tooling become boat anchors because of over-
valuation of their worth by retiring owners. There is some stuff
worth touching up (maybe so much in rolling stock) but we're going
to lose some nice building kits because of this.

Charlie Vlk

Tom Olsen wrote:
Connie has officially placed the company up for sale. If the company
is not sold, she plans to shut down completely. Hopefully someone
will buy the company as a complete shutdown would make it difficult
to letter a great many of the freight cars that we currently build.
Not always do the decals in many of the kits we buy do the job.
I couldn't agree more, Tom, but in conversations with Connie it
is clear that they do not wish to have the business professionally
valued, but are simply setting a very high price, based I guess on
their personal feelings for how great a business it is (or was). This
is common with hobby businesses, where individuals have poured a great
deal of themselves into the work and cannot conceive that it might not
be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
This is not to criticize Connie--she has labored mightily in
recent years to keep Champ alive, and is certainly entitled to every
buck she can get from the sale--but I personally doubt her pricing
ideas will find a buyer.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Wine cars

Jim Lancaster
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
Chateau Martin cars ran in dedicated service from San Martin,
California (north of Hollister, south of San Jose) to New York City.
Chateau Martin cars were also used between Waterford CA and New York City. Chateau Martin had a winery in Waterford and also performed car repairs there. Another winery that shipped wine for Chateau Martin was located at Mattei on the Santa Fe Visalia District.

Jim Lancaster


Re: ACF post-war box cars

Richard Townsend
 

Well. A long conversation with Ed Hawkins showed me how misinformed I was. Many, many thanks to Ed for generously sharing his time and expertise. The plans in the 9/90 MM are inaccurate with respect to the roof (the ACF riveted roof is quite different from the Despatch roof, in ways that Ed properly says cannot reasonably be described with written words). From the side, if looking from a low level, they look like Murphy roofs, but the best I can say is that they are little like a cross between the Murphy roofs )especially near the edgw of the roof) and the Despatch roofs (especially near the center of the roof), but with an added twist along the way. My simple kitbash with the dartnaught ends and despatch roof would not be accurate for any ACF box car. Oh well. There's still plenty of cars to model with parts that will work. Thanks again to Ed, and to the others who responded as well.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: interchange (Meat from CGW)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Doug Harding wrote:
NYC served the many meat branch houses on the west side high line in New York City. So yes the NYC handled meat, it pretty much had the bulk of the meat traffic to Manhattan/New York City. But it could be the NYC interchanged with NKP somewhere east of Chicago. Routing was set by the shipper, or the shipper's agent, so they could have selected NKP then NYC to the west side high line.
Sure, and obviously produce as well as meat often HAD to travel on NYC or PRR just to reach its destination. My comments about PREFERENCES only reflect relative service quality, and I certainly did not mean to suggest that PRR or NYC or B&O or anyone else could be avoided ENTIRELY.
Shippers had the absolute right to select routing if they wished, and large shippers had traffic managers to do just that to the best advantage of the shipper. But many, especially smaller shippers, could and did call on their local agent for advice, and that advice would usually be to maximize home-road mileage if possible--after that it would depend on what that local agent knew about service, rates and routing to the desired destination. Agents could not be true experts on things like tariffs and routing, and sometimes might recommend something less than optimum, out of ignorance, or of course to benefit their own road if possible.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wine cars

leakinmywaders
 

Thanks, Matt, that does nail the routing. It's similar to what we see routinely for produce reefers.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@..., "Matt Herson" <mherson@...> wrote:

Have finally located the reference to a CMWX traveling on the NP. The
citation is from Russ Strodtz from a posting on his Rail Freight Group.



"For example I've got a copy of a bill in front
of me for a CMWX car of wine. San Martin CA to Bronx NY.
No diversions involved, just a straight routing. It is
routed SP-SP&S-NP-CB&Q-NYC."

...


Re: Wine cars

leakinmywaders
 

Richard: All I have specific to that question is from one wheel report filed in Missoula, MT (4 August 1969, but germane to the discussion despite the late date): CMWX 1009, load of wine, 25 tons, Train 600 (Eastbound), destination Park Junction, Minneapolis. Park Junction was the end of the line on the NP, from which yard it would likely have been handed off to any of several roads pointed east or southeast (and a couple that handled local industries). Some wheel report entries carried more information on destination beyond NP rails; unfortunately this one did not. In general, destinations for eastbound interchange traffic handled through Park Junction (primarily by way of CB&Q, Milwaukee, and Rock Island) included greater Chicago, Michigan, Quebec, New York, Pennsylvania, New England, Delaware, Maryland.

Chateau-Martin had both west and east coast operations. I note from a fascinating and informative web site (http://coastdaylight.com/chatmart/cmwx_roster_1.html) the following:

****
In February 1948, 25 tank cars of Chateau Martin wine were shipped from the Waterford winery [on SP's Oakdale Branch] to the Bronx NY.
The trade magazine Wines & Vines reported in its March 1948 issue that the record trainload carried 200,000
gallons of wine. The train left Waterford behind 2-6-0 SP1770 with 15 cars of Port, 7 cars of Muscatel and 3 cars
of Dry Red Wine. A long banner on the side of the train proclaimed:

"LARGEST TRAINLOAD OF WINES in HISTORY
CHATEAU MARTIN WINERY in CALIFORNIA to N.Y.C."

***

This says nothing about routing, but does record that west-to-east coast shipments occurred.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
.. some of these ex-Pfaudler CMWX
wine cars saw routing eastbound over the NP with loads of wine for
destination points east of the Twin Cities....

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT
East of the twin cities? The only major cities east of the twin
cities are Milwaukee and Chicago, and one would think wine traffic to
those destinations which originated south of the Bay Area would have
been routed SP-UP-C&NW to Chicago, not SP-SP&S-NP via Portland and
Spokane. Unless Chateau-Martin supplied a wine wholesaler in
northern Wisconsin, and even then.... Very curious.

Richard Hendrickson
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Re: interchange (Meat from CGW)

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

NYC served the many meat branch houses on the west side high line in New York City. So yes the NYC handled meat, it pretty much
had the bulk of the meat traffic to Manhattan/New York City. But it could be the NYC interchanged with NKP somewhere east of
Chicago. Routing was set by the shipper, or the shipper's agent, so they could have selected NKP then NYC to the west side high
line.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org

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