Date   

Re: interchange (Meat from CGW)

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

Tony what you say is true. Which is why I suggested that some of that meat arriving on the highline may have traveled first on the
NKP before it went to the NYC. To get to the branch houses on the west side of the city the car had to travel on the NYC at some
point, at the end of it's journey, but this does not imply it traveled NYC all the way from Chicago to New York City. Meat
shippers along with produce shippers wanted speed. NPK and Erie were noted for speed.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: interchange (Meat from CGW)

rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
 

I was told (or assumed) the Decker meat the M&StL gave to the CGW at Marshalltown was bound for KC.

I would need to refer to time tables to make sure.

The CGW cars were put just ahead of the caboose so the M'town switcher could cut them off the DMX as soon as it arrived and shuffle them over to the waiting CGW train.

Clark Propst


Re: interchange (Perishable Connections)

railwayman <stevelucas3@...>
 

The hottest train on the Canada Division of the NYC was NY-4. AFAIK, it ran Chicago-Elkhart-Jackson-Detroit-St. Thomas-Niagara Falls, NY, then on the Falls Road Line to Rochester, joining the "Water Level Route" to New York City for the rest of its trip.

In using this routing, NYC saved substantial time and delay by not going through Cleveland and Toledo, not to mention Buffalo. Travel times for trains like NY-4 were cited as being up to eight hours quicker through Canada. NY-4 was cited as being comprised of ATSF reefers and NYC stock cars.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "switchengines" <jrs060@...> wrote:

Tom, and Brian, you both are no doubt correct about some of the meat going
to the NYC. The figures that I had seen from a presentation that Jim Singer did
at Naperville a few years ago confirmed that NYC got a huge portion of the
perishable traffic to the east. And if you think about it, it makes perfect sense,
it's a good connections, with fast routing to the population centers of the east,
and with many consignees served by NYC railroad itself, this is all perfectly
understandable.
MC (NYC) handled it's hot perishable traffic through Canada to Buffalo. With
MC having hot connecting trains off the IHB, at Blue Island, and out of Joliet, off
the Santa Fe, to handle the traffic. Many great photos exist to show how big this
interchange was, and how it worked. What amazes me is how many Santa Fe
modelers have no clue as to how this worked in the Chicago area. All one really
has to do is look at the photos, and talk with some of the IHB/NYC retired rail-
roaders. They can easily identify the trains origin by the cars, lots of PFE's and
meat reefers, a Blue Island connection, SFRD's, a Joliet connection.
What a lot of this boils down to is very simple, the shipper has the right to
route his freight as he sees fit. Many reasons may exist to influence his choice,
rates, connecting times, train schedules, and the railroad serving the consignee
at destination, are but a few. Now it's easy to understand that a large packing
house would easily be turning out loads for many of it's branch houses in the
population centers, most of the traffic is moving to the east. Now, of course you
are going to get different routes to the destinations cities-----and yes, some of
them may even be going to the Pennsy.

Happiness, Jerry Stewart

Woodstock, Illinois


Re: dssa boxcar

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Mark;

No, go ahead, but if you would, you should approach Nick with a copy of that
article, and some photos of those wheels and housings. It would go a long
way to explaining things....

Elden

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Mark
Morgan
Sent: Tuesday, April 06, 2010 7:24 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar



Thanks Elden, would you mind if this is forwarded to Nick at Moloco? Might
bug you later on PRR stuff as it comes along!

Sincerely, Mark Morgan

________________________________
From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...
<mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tue, April 6, 2010 7:06:01 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar

Folks;

I had looked at the Moloco offering earlier, and had hoped that we would get
an earlier wheel, too, but we still do not seem to have any of the earlier
style wheels available to us. This new set is very detailed, and appreciated
for those applications for which it is suited, but it contains only the
stamped late (post-mid-50' s or so) Klasing wheel with the two later
housings, not the earlier cast 28-hole wheel, or the even earlier ~20-hole
cast wheel; both of which we still need.

Several needed wheels could conceivably be done in etched brass, to avoid the
costly making of masters for cast plastic wheels, among them both earlier
Klasing wheels, but also the early Equipcos (the ones with solid and round
holed center hubs (the latter dominating the early fleet of PRR X31A round
roofs), the scalloped Superior wheel, and the early Peacock that looks like a
URECO. We also need housings, and also a Klasing pump brake for gons.

The RP Cyc issue with the article on handbrakes is a must-read on this
subject.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of
Mark Morgan
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:32 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar

Tim and Gene, Thank You.

I have found something that looks similar:

http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-a
<http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-
a>
jax-universal- 2.html
<http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-
<http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-
ajax-universal- 2.html>

Any suggestions?

Mark Morgan

--- On Sun, 4/4/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ comcast.net
<mailto:timboconnor %40comcast. net> > wrote:

From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ comcast.net <mailto:timboconnor %40comcast.
net> >
Subject: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com>
Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 8:34 PM

Gene and Mark

No, the Mather kit includes a vertically mounted brake wheel

of a completely different size and style.

The only HO scale Klasing brake wheel of the type used on these

DSS&A box cars was produced by AWE (Anthony Wentzel Enterprises)

for his imported brass "PS-0" early Pullman Standard welded box

cars.

Probably the closest brake wheel in general appearance would be

a Universal brake wheel (with a central "hub" and slanted spokes

radiating to an outer rim). Kadee makes this style.

Tim O'Connor

At 4/4/2010 12:48 PM Sunday, you wrote:

Red Caboose makes a plastic Klasing hand brake for the Mather reefer.
This
may be the one you need. I understand, unfortunately, that Red Caboose will
no longer supply parts.

Gene Green
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Mark M" <bnonut@...> wrote:
I plan to take an Athearn boxcar and convert it to DSS&A 17000-17099.
They
used a Klasing brake, any suggestions? Moloco sells two but they look newer.

What trucks would best suit this.
Once again thank to all who are kind to answer questions that I have
posted.

Sincerely, Mark Morgan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: dssa boxcar

Mark
 

Thanks Elden, would you mind if this is forwarded to Nick at Moloco? Might bug you later on PRR stuff as it comes along!

Sincerely, Mark Morgan





________________________________
From: "Gatwood, Elden J SAD " <elden.j.gatwood@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tue, April 6, 2010 7:06:01 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar


Folks;

I had looked at the Moloco offering earlier, and had hoped that we would get
an earlier wheel, too, but we still do not seem to have any of the earlier
style wheels available to us. This new set is very detailed, and appreciated
for those applications for which it is suited, but it contains only the
stamped late (post-mid-50' s or so) Klasing wheel with the two later housings,
not the earlier cast 28-hole wheel, or the even earlier ~20-hole cast wheel;
both of which we still need.

Several needed wheels could conceivably be done in etched brass, to avoid the
costly making of masters for cast plastic wheels, among them both earlier
Klasing wheels, but also the early Equipcos (the ones with solid and round
holed center hubs (the latter dominating the early fleet of PRR X31A round
roofs), the scalloped Superior wheel, and the early Peacock that looks like a
URECO. We also need housings, and also a Klasing pump brake for gons.

The RP Cyc issue with the article on handbrakes is a must-read on this
subject.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups. com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of Mark
Morgan
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:32 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar



Tim and Gene, Thank You.

I have found something that looks similar:

http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-a
jax-universal- 2.html
<http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-
ajax-universal- 2.html>

Any suggestions?

Mark Morgan

--- On Sun, 4/4/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ comcast.net
<mailto:timboconnor %40comcast. net> > wrote:

From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ comcast.net
<mailto:timboconnor %40comcast. net> >
Subject: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com <mailto:STMFC% 40yahoogroups. com>
Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 8:34 PM



Gene and Mark

No, the Mather kit includes a vertically mounted brake wheel

of a completely different size and style.

The only HO scale Klasing brake wheel of the type used on these

DSS&A box cars was produced by AWE (Anthony Wentzel Enterprises)

for his imported brass "PS-0" early Pullman Standard welded box

cars.

Probably the closest brake wheel in general appearance would be

a Universal brake wheel (with a central "hub" and slanted spokes

radiating to an outer rim). Kadee makes this style.

Tim O'Connor

At 4/4/2010 12:48 PM Sunday, you wrote:

Red Caboose makes a plastic Klasing hand brake for the Mather reefer. This
may be the one you need. I understand, unfortunately, that Red Caboose will
no longer supply parts.

Gene Green
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Mark M" <bnonut@...> wrote:
I plan to take an Athearn boxcar and convert it to DSS&A 17000-17099. They
used a Klasing brake, any suggestions? Moloco sells two but they look newer.

What trucks would best suit this.
Once again thank to all who are kind to answer questions that I have
posted.

Sincerely, Mark Morgan











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: dssa boxcar

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Folks;

I had looked at the Moloco offering earlier, and had hoped that we would get
an earlier wheel, too, but we still do not seem to have any of the earlier
style wheels available to us. This new set is very detailed, and appreciated
for those applications for which it is suited, but it contains only the
stamped late (post-mid-50's or so) Klasing wheel with the two later housings,
not the earlier cast 28-hole wheel, or the even earlier ~20-hole cast wheel;
both of which we still need.

Several needed wheels could conceivably be done in etched brass, to avoid the
costly making of masters for cast plastic wheels, among them both earlier
Klasing wheels, but also the early Equipcos (the ones with solid and round
holed center hubs (the latter dominating the early fleet of PRR X31A round
roofs), the scalloped Superior wheel, and the early Peacock that looks like a
URECO. We also need housings, and also a Klasing pump brake for gons.

The RP Cyc issue with the article on handbrakes is a must-read on this
subject.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Mark
Morgan
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 9:32 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar



Tim and Gene, Thank You.

I have found something that looks similar:

http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-a
jax-universal-2.html
<http://www.molocotrains.com/freight-parts/ca-0302-freight-car-appliance-kit-
ajax-universal-2.html>

Any suggestions?

Mark Morgan

--- On Sun, 4/4/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> > wrote:

From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
Subject: [STMFC] Re: dssa boxcar
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sunday, April 4, 2010, 8:34 PM



Gene and Mark

No, the Mather kit includes a vertically mounted brake wheel

of a completely different size and style.

The only HO scale Klasing brake wheel of the type used on these

DSS&A box cars was produced by AWE (Anthony Wentzel Enterprises)

for his imported brass "PS-0" early Pullman Standard welded box

cars.

Probably the closest brake wheel in general appearance would be

a Universal brake wheel (with a central "hub" and slanted spokes

radiating to an outer rim). Kadee makes this style.

Tim O'Connor

At 4/4/2010 12:48 PM Sunday, you wrote:

Red Caboose makes a plastic Klasing hand brake for the Mather reefer. This
may be the one you need. I understand, unfortunately, that Red Caboose will
no longer supply parts.

Gene Green
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, "Mark M" <bnonut@...> wrote:
I plan to take an Athearn boxcar and convert it to DSS&A 17000-17099. They
used a Klasing brake, any suggestions? Moloco sells two but they look newer.

What trucks would best suit this.
Once again thank to all who are kind to answer questions that I have
posted.

Sincerely, Mark Morgan
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Perishable Schedules

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Al Brown wrote:
The thread was originally about routings chosen by western shippers of perishables, and it's said they preferred Erie or Nickel Plate to PRR or NYC or B&O. It was countered that PRR handled a lot of perishables. I'm wondering whether PRR's perishable volume means that the preference just mentioned wasn't really all that strong, or does it mean that a lot of perishables came through gateways where there wasn't much choice?
I understand your confusion, Al, but I think you are mixing up two different things. The fact was that PRR and NYC and B&O served an awful lot of the U.S. population in, say, the 1950s. Note that Bruce Smith mentioned carloads, and of course many, many carloads HAD to travel the "undesirable" roads at the end of the trip. That doesn't mean they traveled those roads any farther than absolutely necessary. It would be interesting to compare carload-miles to total carloads. And of course shippers didn't have to listen to their local PFE agent unless they wanted to; if they didn't mind damage claims (after all, the railroad paid), they could ship as much on the PRR as they liked.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wine cars

Paul <buygone@...>
 

On a move California to New York, you could route via the direct route
(overland) or the Northern or Southern route at no additional cost to the
shipper or consignee who ever was paying the bill. You all are forgetting
the free lunch. I would be willing to bet some silver tongued salesman for
SP&S, NP or CBQ did some entertaining with a lunch or dinner for that route.
Been there done that.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Anthony Thompson
Sent: Monday, April 05, 2010 7:15 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Wine cars





Matt Herson wrote:
The citation is from Russ Strodtz from a posting on his Rail Freight
Group.
"For example I've got a copy of a bill in front of me for a CMWX car
of wine. San Martin CA to Bronx NY. No diversions involved, just a
straight routing. It is routed SP-SP&S-NP-CB&Q-NYC."
This sounds like a shipper-specified routing. And remember
that SP had a very friendly relation with NP, so that connection would
have been acceptable. Why the shipper wanted a northern routing,
though, is unclear, unless it was some aspect of dependable service.
I've read that some routings were created specifically to solve the
Chicago-handoff problem.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturep
<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com> ress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Perishable Schedules

al_brown03
 

Neat stuff! And needless to say, I look forward with fascination to Bill's FGE/WFEX/BREX masterwork.

That said, I used the word "northeast" narrowly, to mean the Boston-Washington corridor and New England. I'd have described the destinations Bill cites as "midwestern", including Buffalo since one got there via NKP. My New Jersey upbringing is many years in the past, but I guess it shows when I least expect it to!

The thread was originally about routings chosen by western shippers of perishables, and it's said they preferred Erie or Nickel Plate to PRR or NYC or B&O. It was countered that PRR handled a lot of perishables. I'm wondering whether PRR's perishable volume means that the preference just mentioned wasn't really all that strong, or does it mean that a lot of perishables came through gateways where there wasn't much choice? To tell, ideally one would want a gateway-by-gateway breakdown of the roads receiving perishable traffic.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

I have been fortunate to scan several "Perishable Schedules"
published by the ACL, SAL, and L&N and anticipate accessing several
more including a group published by the Southern soon. I also have
one from the Charleston & Western Carolina. Many of these were loaned
to me to scan by collector and dealer Kent Hannah plus my friends
John King and Jim Singer.

All of these help draw a picture of the way Fruit Growers Express
traffic moved from the southeast to the major markets of the
northeast and upper midwest, which involved many other railroads in
addition to the B&O and PRR (this is not said to diminish the volume
of either of these RR's).

A nice example is the relatively simple schedule published by the
C&WC for train #97 which originated in Augusta, GA (with reefers
originating from the ACL, SAL and FEC) and was handed off to the
Clinchfield at Spartanburg, SC to travel behind their Challengers
(and later grey & yellow EMD F-5's) to the C&O at Elkhorn City, KY.
From here the C&O moved FGE's traffic to:

Buffalo, NY via the NKP
Charleston, VW
Chicago, IL
Cincinnati, OH
Cleveland, OH via the NKP
Detroit, MI via NYC in some cases
Flint, MI
Ft Wayne, IN via the NKP
Fostoria, OH
Grand Rapids, MI
Huntington, WV
Lansing, MI
Saginaw, MI
Toledo, OH
Toronto, ON via CP
Toronto, ON via D&TSL-GT-CN

Another example was part of the schedule from Birmingham, AL for cars
delivered by the Seaboard Airline

Lv. B'ham 7 PM Wed. via the I.C. to Ar. Chicago 11 PM Thurs.
Lv. B'ham 7:30 PM Wed. via the SL-SF to Kansas City, Ar. Thurs. 4 AM
Lv. B'ham 4 AM Thurs. via the GM&O to Memphis Ar. 8:30 PM Thurs.

Bill Welch


Re: Sale of Champ Decals

al_brown03
 

They sure are. I placed an order the first of this month, and have received it.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...> wrote:

Is Champ still selling their decals? I placed an online order last
month and did not get a reply. I wasn't sure if it was them or my lack
of computer skills.

Bill pardie
On Apr 5, 2010, at 11:35 AM, cvlk wrote:

The price of Champ should be based on what Walthers got for their
decal business......

....from what I understand, they offered the whole works....
screens, plates, etc... to whoever would back a truck up to the
warehouse and get rid of it for them. Presumably Whatever research
materials existed long since passed over to the manufacturing side
of WKW.
They didn't have any takers from what I've heard. The only thing of
value for a non-digital based business would be the source material
and perhaps some of the original artwork if it were scanable.

Nobody (well, I probably shouldn't make that statement... almost
nobody) in their right mind would base a venture on pen and ink
drawing of artwork for decal production today.
The costs and quality that computer-based art and processes allow
are the only viable basis for a for-profit business. Of course, we
are talking about the HOBBY Industry so the rules are apparently a
little different.....

We will see some viable tooling become boat anchors because of over-
valuation of their worth by retiring owners. There is some stuff
worth touching up (maybe so much in rolling stock) but we're going
to lose some nice building kits because of this.

Charlie Vlk

Tom Olsen wrote:
Connie has officially placed the company up for sale. If the company
is not sold, she plans to shut down completely. Hopefully someone
will buy the company as a complete shutdown would make it difficult
to letter a great many of the freight cars that we currently build.
Not always do the decals in many of the kits we buy do the job.
I couldn't agree more, Tom, but in conversations with Connie it
is clear that they do not wish to have the business professionally
valued, but are simply setting a very high price, based I guess on
their personal feelings for how great a business it is (or was). This
is common with hobby businesses, where individuals have poured a great
deal of themselves into the work and cannot conceive that it might not
be worth hundreds of thousands of dollars.
This is not to criticize Connie--she has labored mightily in
recent years to keep Champ alive, and is certainly entitled to every
buck she can get from the sale--but I personally doubt her pricing
ideas will find a buyer.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Wine cars

Jim Lancaster
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
Chateau Martin cars ran in dedicated service from San Martin,
California (north of Hollister, south of San Jose) to New York City.
Chateau Martin cars were also used between Waterford CA and New York City. Chateau Martin had a winery in Waterford and also performed car repairs there. Another winery that shipped wine for Chateau Martin was located at Mattei on the Santa Fe Visalia District.

Jim Lancaster


Re: ACF post-war box cars

Richard Townsend
 

Well. A long conversation with Ed Hawkins showed me how misinformed I was. Many, many thanks to Ed for generously sharing his time and expertise. The plans in the 9/90 MM are inaccurate with respect to the roof (the ACF riveted roof is quite different from the Despatch roof, in ways that Ed properly says cannot reasonably be described with written words). From the side, if looking from a low level, they look like Murphy roofs, but the best I can say is that they are little like a cross between the Murphy roofs )especially near the edgw of the roof) and the Despatch roofs (especially near the center of the roof), but with an added twist along the way. My simple kitbash with the dartnaught ends and despatch roof would not be accurate for any ACF box car. Oh well. There's still plenty of cars to model with parts that will work. Thanks again to Ed, and to the others who responded as well.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: interchange (Meat from CGW)

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Doug Harding wrote:
NYC served the many meat branch houses on the west side high line in New York City. So yes the NYC handled meat, it pretty much had the bulk of the meat traffic to Manhattan/New York City. But it could be the NYC interchanged with NKP somewhere east of Chicago. Routing was set by the shipper, or the shipper's agent, so they could have selected NKP then NYC to the west side high line.
Sure, and obviously produce as well as meat often HAD to travel on NYC or PRR just to reach its destination. My comments about PREFERENCES only reflect relative service quality, and I certainly did not mean to suggest that PRR or NYC or B&O or anyone else could be avoided ENTIRELY.
Shippers had the absolute right to select routing if they wished, and large shippers had traffic managers to do just that to the best advantage of the shipper. But many, especially smaller shippers, could and did call on their local agent for advice, and that advice would usually be to maximize home-road mileage if possible--after that it would depend on what that local agent knew about service, rates and routing to the desired destination. Agents could not be true experts on things like tariffs and routing, and sometimes might recommend something less than optimum, out of ignorance, or of course to benefit their own road if possible.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wine cars

leakinmywaders
 

Thanks, Matt, that does nail the routing. It's similar to what we see routinely for produce reefers.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@..., "Matt Herson" <mherson@...> wrote:

Have finally located the reference to a CMWX traveling on the NP. The
citation is from Russ Strodtz from a posting on his Rail Freight Group.



"For example I've got a copy of a bill in front
of me for a CMWX car of wine. San Martin CA to Bronx NY.
No diversions involved, just a straight routing. It is
routed SP-SP&S-NP-CB&Q-NYC."

...


Re: Wine cars

leakinmywaders
 

Richard: All I have specific to that question is from one wheel report filed in Missoula, MT (4 August 1969, but germane to the discussion despite the late date): CMWX 1009, load of wine, 25 tons, Train 600 (Eastbound), destination Park Junction, Minneapolis. Park Junction was the end of the line on the NP, from which yard it would likely have been handed off to any of several roads pointed east or southeast (and a couple that handled local industries). Some wheel report entries carried more information on destination beyond NP rails; unfortunately this one did not. In general, destinations for eastbound interchange traffic handled through Park Junction (primarily by way of CB&Q, Milwaukee, and Rock Island) included greater Chicago, Michigan, Quebec, New York, Pennsylvania, New England, Delaware, Maryland.

Chateau-Martin had both west and east coast operations. I note from a fascinating and informative web site (http://coastdaylight.com/chatmart/cmwx_roster_1.html) the following:

****
In February 1948, 25 tank cars of Chateau Martin wine were shipped from the Waterford winery [on SP's Oakdale Branch] to the Bronx NY.
The trade magazine Wines & Vines reported in its March 1948 issue that the record trainload carried 200,000
gallons of wine. The train left Waterford behind 2-6-0 SP1770 with 15 cars of Port, 7 cars of Muscatel and 3 cars
of Dry Red Wine. A long banner on the side of the train proclaimed:

"LARGEST TRAINLOAD OF WINES in HISTORY
CHATEAU MARTIN WINERY in CALIFORNIA to N.Y.C."

***

This says nothing about routing, but does record that west-to-east coast shipments occurred.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:
.. some of these ex-Pfaudler CMWX
wine cars saw routing eastbound over the NP with loads of wine for
destination points east of the Twin Cities....

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT
East of the twin cities? The only major cities east of the twin
cities are Milwaukee and Chicago, and one would think wine traffic to
those destinations which originated south of the Bay Area would have
been routed SP-UP-C&NW to Chicago, not SP-SP&S-NP via Portland and
Spokane. Unless Chateau-Martin supplied a wine wholesaler in
northern Wisconsin, and even then.... Very curious.

Richard Hendrickson
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: interchange (Meat from CGW)

Douglas Harding <dharding@...>
 

NYC served the many meat branch houses on the west side high line in New York City. So yes the NYC handled meat, it pretty much
had the bulk of the meat traffic to Manhattan/New York City. But it could be the NYC interchanged with NKP somewhere east of
Chicago. Routing was set by the shipper, or the shipper's agent, so they could have selected NKP then NYC to the west side high
line.

Doug Harding
www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: Express Refrigerator Cars 1929

railsnw1 <railsnw@...>
 

Both of the lists came out of the same official YVT file. I also noticed the differences between the two. I wish the file had more but that is all I have found. The Yakima Valley Museum has this collection and I've been helping to catalog it.

Richard Wilkens

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Roger Hinman wrote:
I just did a quick comparison of the two lists and the only
differences are cars for D&RG, MDT, one lot of SLSF and the WP. I
was a bit astounded to see 50 MDT cars under control of the REA, but
the car numbers listed are bogus for 1929 . I would tend to trust
the more official looking REA list. Any more of these lists coming
from later in the 30s and 40s. Be interesting to see which road
names fall off or added and whether it correlates with other data
sources.
The car numbers shown for WP are also bogus in 1929, and in
fact the ORER for that year shows NO express reefers in either freight
or passenger entries. Makes me wonder about the entire typescript list
which is posted.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Tim O'Connor
 

I think the new Kadee 70 ton Barber S-2-B is almost exactly right
for the SP flats (the prototype had S-2-A-0 trucks, whatever those
were). The Red Caboose Barber S-2-A is a decent model too, as long
as you replace the wheels with Reboxx.

Tim O'Connor

At 4/5/2010 10:38 PM Monday, you wrote:
Bill at Red Caboose informed me that he intends to run some SP F-70-7 flat car KITS this summer, with Accurail "Bettendorf" trucks. These kits have been hard to get the last few years. No word about their future availability as RTR from Intermountain (I did not ask).

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:20:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 60-foot flat cars

Rich, Tony didn't say, so I will add -- I think the F-70-3 can be
kitbashed very readily using the Red Caboose F-70-7 flat cars as a
starting point. I recall Dan Smith saying he intended to do this.
I admit it's a pretty expensive kitbash!

Tim O'Connor

Richard Townsendt wrote:
I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can
anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59
ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on
line somewhere:

SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121
Rich, the SP cars (Class F-70-3, built in 1942) did indeed have
fishbelly sides. I used photos of these cars in my Vol. 3 on SP
freight cars, and can send you scans off-list if you want. The second
group you list is the same F-70-3 cars, with the numbers they received
in the 1956 (and thereafter) system renumbering.

Tony Thompson


Re: ACF post-war box cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Rich,

A picture of MKT 97193 definitely shows a rectangular panel roof.

Also, be aware that there are at least two distinctly different
looking "dartnot" ends -- for example the ends on the Rock Island
cars (23000 & 24000 series) have "rolling pin" style ribs with
a rectangular top rib. But the DT&I 14000 series cars have 4/4
ribs with a tapered + flattened look with a distinctive "dimple"
along the corners, between each rib. I don't think anyone has
made this end in HO scale.

You're right the RI 24000 series have diagonal panel roofs but
I don't know about the 23000 series.

Tim O'Connor

There was a Todd Sullivan article in the Sept. 90 MM on ACF 1948 design
box cars. It talks about ACF using a "split panel" roof (as opposed to
a rectangular or diagonal panel -- similar to the "Despatch" roof) and
"dartnaught" ends on certain cars. The article specifically calls out
DT&I 14000-14299 and 14300-14549, MKT 97001-97300 and 97301-97800, and
Reading 107500-107999 and 10800 (sic) -108499. It includes plans for
MKT 92548 (which is not among those called as being of this particular
design). The photos in this article are confusing to say the least. The
title illustration has nothing to do with the subject of the article,
being ACFX 30000 a 1938 welded demonstrator car (I think). I can accept
that since I have no intention of modeling that car. But also included
in the photos are the following:

ACL 24000-24999
ATSF 33500-33999
C&EI 66300-64299 (did they count backwards?)
Erie 90500-91199
CMO 38300-39098
ITC 5700-5709
DL&W 54000-54999
RI 23000-23999 and 24000-24999
NKP 20200-20499
PRR 600000-601999 and 602000-603499
Reading ? (showing 109300)
SERX 976-1027
NJI&I 100-199
MKT 91500-92000 (again outside the series called out in the article)

Based on the photos in the article, the DL&W, NKP, SERX, and NJI&I are
not among the cars with the dartnaught ends and split panel roof. Looking
at Ed Hawkins's article in the 11/90 RMJ, it appears that the Erie cars are
out, too, as are the PRR 602000-603499. Another Ed Hawkins article, from
the 10/90 RMJ, seems to rule out others (ATSF, C&EI, ITC, and RI 24000 series)
since he says they had rectangular panel or diagonal panel roofs.

So here is my question. What 40' box cars did have the combination of split
panel roofs and dartnaught ends? I would be pleased to learn that the
RI 23000 series cars are among these.

I am contemplating building an example of these cars using Branchline dartnaught
ends and a cut-down Despatch roof from a Branchline 50' box car kit.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Andy Carlson
 

Bill at Red Caboose informed me that he intends to run some SP F-70-7 flat car KITS this summer, with Accurail "Bettendorf" trucks. These kits have been hard to get the last few years. No word about their future availability as RTR from Intermountain (I did not ask).

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:20:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 60-foot flat cars



Rich, Tony didn't say, so I will add -- I think the F-70-3 can be
kitbashed very readily using the Red Caboose F-70-7 flat cars as a
starting point. I recall Dan Smith saying he intended to do this.
I admit it's a pretty expensive kitbash!

Tim O'Connor

Richard Townsendt wrote:
I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can
anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59
ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on
line somewhere:

SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121
Rich, the SP cars (Class F-70-3, built in 1942) did indeed have
fishbelly sides. I used photos of these cars in my Vol. 3 on SP
freight cars, and can send you scans off-list if you want. The second
group you list is the same F-70-3 cars, with the numbers they received
in the 1956 (and thereafter) system renumbering.

Tony Thompson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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