Date   

Variations for 3-Bay PS-2

Bill Welch
 

I have suggested to Denis that the roof variations for the 3-Bay PS2 would be good to have. CB&Q, Wabash, Monon, and Southern were among railroads who owned cars with variations.

Early on when Athearn came out with their version of this prototype, I secured the roof parts so I could create my own but I would be very happy if someone else did this work for me and others.

Let Denis know if you would like these.

Bill Welch


Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

mikefrommontanan
 

Probably better to do the seam cap variation, rather than using old metal
roof seam caps from Silver Streak boxcar kits (this on an EBT model of an
NP car. Methinks the state of the art has evolved a wee bit.

Michael Seitz

(who built his cars when EBT was the only game in town, and darned
impossible to build square)..
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Freight car Distribution

armand_premo <armprem0@...>
 

Over the years many fine models have been produced,but some roads have been under represented.While we are striving to achieve a degree of reality many of these roads should be present on each roster.for example:EJ&E,TH&B,B&A,PE,DTI.B&LE I am sure that there are many more.


Freight car Distribution

armand_premo <armprem0@...>
 

Over the years many fine models have been produced,but some roads have been under represented.While we are striving to achieve a degree of reality many of these roads should be present on each roster.for example:EJ&E,TH&B,B&A,PE,DTI.B&LE I am sure that there are many more.


Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers (now InterMountain)

Ed Hawkins
 

Dennis and Tim,
I don't recall if this has been covered before on the STMFC or not. The
roof with seam caps has been made by InterMountain and used on their
Santa Fe model (#48671). However, I don't believe IM is offering the
roof for sale as a separate item at this time. Perhaps they could be
persuaded to do so.

There were a number of roads that used seam-capped roofs on some or all
of their 1958 c.f. covered hoppers. These include nearly 2,000 CB&Q
cars (all except for an initial order in 1940), C&S 19000-19079, FW&D
2201-2225, 7 orders for ATSF (1,200 cars), C&EI 80075-80099 (special
hatch locks), CIL 4221-4320, D&RGW 18350-18374 and 18400-18424, DMIR
4960-4969, DPCX (Dewey Portland Cement) 202-221, EJ&E 3100-3199, GN
73970-73994, GTW 113700-113874, LS&BC 101-112, I-GN 2250-2349, M-I
6000-6049, MP 2000-2249, StLB&M 2350-2399, M-K-T 40801-40950, NP
75030-75129, and SL-SF 83500-83649. There may have been others, but
this is all I've been able to confirm.

A large percentage of the above cars had a different type of hatch
cover and locking bar arrangement than that which is currently offered
by InterMountain. Sunshine's mini-kits (meant for the Bowser model) can
be used to model some of these cars as they provide the correct type of
roof (an overlay), hatch covers, locking bar supports (etched metal
parts), and accurate decals. It appears to me that the Sunshine
mini-kits could be adapted for use on the InterMountain seam-capped
roof. One modification required is to build up the squares for the
hatch covers to rest on.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

On Apr 9, 2010, at 11:15 PM, dblake7@columbus.rr.com wrote:

That is not to say we would not do the Q roof! Get us about 150
confirmed sales and the drawings to go by and I would say we would do
that roof. Denis Blake North Hamlet Shops, OH
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 19:44:28
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

Denis

The more common and much-needed ACF 1958 roof is the style with
standard hatch spacing, but with seam caps on the roof. Some roads
-only- had cars with this type of roof, e.g. CB&Q. Sunshine did a
mini-kit but it was a roof overlay rather than a replacement roof
and it was designed to fit the Kato GATC car.

Some railroads rebuilt the cars with round hatches. Eastern Car Works
made a couple of different replacement roofs for their ACF 1958, and
I think they produced round hatches, plus evenly spaced hatches.

Tim O'Connor
At 4/9/2010 04:14 PM Friday, you wrote:
>Guys, we at WrightTRAK are always looking for new adventures. This
>discussion about the Kato and to lesser extent, the Bowser covered
hoppers
>has led Gary and I to have another discussion
>about the merits of WrightTRAK producing roofs with evenly spaced
hatches.
>We could do this for any model that has the roof done as a separate
piece
>and this includes the various 2 and 3 bay cars that are on the
market at
>this time. Unfortunately the Kato car has the roof cast as part of
the body
>so that car is really not an option for most folks.
>
>If you are interested please let me know at dblake7@columbus.rr.com
If we
>can scare up enough interest we may do them. I need to know which
car you
>are interested in having them done for. We have several projects in
the
>works right now and this includes a couple of new projects for
Naperville.
>As such we will have to fit something like the roof(s) into the
schedule of
>our pattern maker. At this time there are no guarantees of the
project
>being done or a time frame. We are just trying to gauge interest in
such a
>project.
>
>Denis Blake
>WrightTRAK Railroad Models, Inc.


Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

On the other hand... the seam cap roofs were so -common- that I
know people have asked Frank Angstead to do this roof for his ACF
kit. Who knows, maybe Intermountain will do that roof. Stranger
things have happened.

Tim O'Connor

Denis

What you do with your money is up to you.

But it's not a "Q" roof -- several railroads had them, including the
AT&SF, C&EI, NP, MP, CB&Q, C&S... There were thousands of them. I don't
know why you think the evenly spaced hatches have "broad appeal" -- 350
or so cars of 5 railroads (200 of them GM&O!), plus 3 SHPX cars?


Ok Tim, so in your opinion should we do a roof good for the Q or should
we do one with evenly spaced hatches that would have broader appeal? I know
where I would put my money. Denis Blake


Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Denis

What you do with your money is up to you.

But it's not a "Q" roof -- several railroads had them, including the
AT&SF, C&EI, NP, MP, CB&Q, C&S... There were thousands of them. I don't
know why you think the evenly spaced hatches have "broad appeal" -- 350
or so cars of 5 railroads (200 of them GM&O!), plus 3 SHPX cars?

At 4/10/2010 12:11 AM Saturday, you wrote:
Ok Tim, so in your opinion should we do a roof good for the Q or should we do one with evenly spaced hatches that would have broader appeal? I know where I would put my money. Denis Blake
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry


Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

seaboard_1966
 

That is not to say we would not do the Q roof! Get us about 150 confirmed sales and the drawings to go by and I would say we would do that roof. Denis Blake North Hamlet Shops, OH
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 19:44:28
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

Denis

The more common and much-needed ACF 1958 roof is the style with
standard hatch spacing, but with seam caps on the roof. Some roads
-only- had cars with this type of roof, e.g. CB&Q. Sunshine did a
mini-kit but it was a roof overlay rather than a replacement roof
and it was designed to fit the Kato GATC car.

Some railroads rebuilt the cars with round hatches. Eastern Car Works
made a couple of different replacement roofs for their ACF 1958, and
I think they produced round hatches, plus evenly spaced hatches.

Tim O'Connor



At 4/9/2010 04:14 PM Friday, you wrote:
Guys, we at WrightTRAK are always looking for new adventures. This
discussion about the Kato and to lesser extent, the Bowser covered hoppers
has led Gary and I to have another discussion
about the merits of WrightTRAK producing roofs with evenly spaced hatches.
We could do this for any model that has the roof done as a separate piece
and this includes the various 2 and 3 bay cars that are on the market at
this time. Unfortunately the Kato car has the roof cast as part of the body
so that car is really not an option for most folks.

If you are interested please let me know at dblake7@columbus.rr.com If we
can scare up enough interest we may do them. I need to know which car you
are interested in having them done for. We have several projects in the
works right now and this includes a couple of new projects for Naperville.
As such we will have to fit something like the roof(s) into the schedule of
our pattern maker. At this time there are no guarantees of the project
being done or a time frame. We are just trying to gauge interest in such a
project.

Denis Blake
WrightTRAK Railroad Models, Inc.


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

seaboard_1966
 

Ok Tim, so in your opinion should we do a roof good for the Q or should we do one with evenly spaced hatches that would have broader appeal? I know where I would put my money. Denis Blake
Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

-----Original Message-----
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@comcast.net>
Date: Fri, 09 Apr 2010 19:44:28
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

Denis

The more common and much-needed ACF 1958 roof is the style with
standard hatch spacing, but with seam caps on the roof. Some roads
-only- had cars with this type of roof, e.g. CB&Q. Sunshine did a
mini-kit but it was a roof overlay rather than a replacement roof
and it was designed to fit the Kato GATC car.

Some railroads rebuilt the cars with round hatches. Eastern Car Works
made a couple of different replacement roofs for their ACF 1958, and
I think they produced round hatches, plus evenly spaced hatches.

Tim O'Connor



At 4/9/2010 04:14 PM Friday, you wrote:
Guys, we at WrightTRAK are always looking for new adventures. This
discussion about the Kato and to lesser extent, the Bowser covered hoppers
has led Gary and I to have another discussion
about the merits of WrightTRAK producing roofs with evenly spaced hatches.
We could do this for any model that has the roof done as a separate piece
and this includes the various 2 and 3 bay cars that are on the market at
this time. Unfortunately the Kato car has the roof cast as part of the body
so that car is really not an option for most folks.

If you are interested please let me know at dblake7@columbus.rr.com If we
can scare up enough interest we may do them. I need to know which car you
are interested in having them done for. We have several projects in the
works right now and this includes a couple of new projects for Naperville.
As such we will have to fit something like the roof(s) into the schedule of
our pattern maker. At this time there are no guarantees of the project
being done or a time frame. We are just trying to gauge interest in such a
project.

Denis Blake
WrightTRAK Railroad Models, Inc.


------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Denis

The more common and much-needed ACF 1958 roof is the style with
standard hatch spacing, but with seam caps on the roof. Some roads
-only- had cars with this type of roof, e.g. CB&Q. Sunshine did a
mini-kit but it was a roof overlay rather than a replacement roof
and it was designed to fit the Kato GATC car.

Some railroads rebuilt the cars with round hatches. Eastern Car Works
made a couple of different replacement roofs for their ACF 1958, and
I think they produced round hatches, plus evenly spaced hatches.

Tim O'Connor

At 4/9/2010 04:14 PM Friday, you wrote:
Guys, we at WrightTRAK are always looking for new adventures. This
discussion about the Kato and to lesser extent, the Bowser covered hoppers
has led Gary and I to have another discussion
about the merits of WrightTRAK producing roofs with evenly spaced hatches.
We could do this for any model that has the roof done as a separate piece
and this includes the various 2 and 3 bay cars that are on the market at
this time. Unfortunately the Kato car has the roof cast as part of the body
so that car is really not an option for most folks.

If you are interested please let me know at dblake7@columbus.rr.com If we
can scare up enough interest we may do them. I need to know which car you
are interested in having them done for. We have several projects in the
works right now and this includes a couple of new projects for Naperville.
As such we will have to fit something like the roof(s) into the schedule of
our pattern maker. At this time there are no guarantees of the project
being done or a time frame. We are just trying to gauge interest in such a
project.

Denis Blake
WrightTRAK Railroad Models, Inc.


Evenly spaced hatches was: Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

Clark Propst
 

I have all Bowser cars (some custom run and the rest decaled) and I've changed the hatch spacing on several. I might be tempted to switch over to the new Intermountain car if an evenly space hatched roof was available.

On the Intermountain website they show a photo of an M&StL LO with correct number and lettering, But list the evenly spaced hatch series numbers for the additional cars...we'll see...
Clark Propst


Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

seaboard_1966
 

Guys, we at WrightTRAK are always looking for new adventures. This discussion about the Kato and to lesser extent, the Bowser covered hoppers has led Gary and I to have another discussion
about the merits of WrightTRAK producing roofs with evenly spaced hatches. We could do this for any model that has the roof done as a separate piece and this includes the various 2 and 3 bay cars that are on the market at this time. Unfortunately the Kato car has the roof cast as part of the body so that car is really not an option for most folks.

If you are interested please let me know at dblake7@columbus.rr.com If we can scare up enough interest we may do them. I need to know which car you are interested in having them done for. We have several projects in the works right now and this includes a couple of new projects for Naperville. As such we will have to fit something like the roof(s) into the schedule of our pattern maker. At this time there are no guarantees of the project being done or a time frame. We are just trying to gauge interest in such a project.

Denis Blake
WrightTRAK Railroad Models, Inc.
--------------------------------------------------
From: "jdziedzic08802" <jerdz@earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 3:18 PM
To: <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers



I'm certain Clark and Ed are referring to the 1958 cu ft design. Can't add any other examples of evenly-spaced hatches to Ed's list without referring to my files.

If we consider the 1790 cu ft design, all the 10-hatch versions had evenly spaced hatches. CNJ 59100-59149 were evenly-spaced 8-hatch cars. I may be able to find other examples when I catch up with my files.

And's long's I'm at it, we cement heads have usually referred to the 1790 cu ft design as "drop-frame" or "bent-frame". I propose that we adhere to convention and call them fishbelly cars. Can't explain why I never thought of this before. Objections?

Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On Apr 9, 2010, at 8:30 AM, rockroll50401 wrote:

Jerry touched on hatch spacing. How many customers bought cars with
evenly spaced hatches? (Not the normal center two together)
Clark Propst
Clark,
The following cars had evenly-spaced hatches. They were built between
Jan. 1947 and Sept. 1950. It's possible there were others, but this is
the list of cars that I'm aware of.

GM&O 80000-80049 (Pullman-Standard), 80500-80649 (ACF, two groups)
M&StL 70101-70199 odd (Pulman-Standard)
MILW 99325-99574 (Milw. Rd. shops)
SHPX 25478-25480 (leased to Westvaco Chemical) (ACF)
SI 4003-4025 (13 cars sold to NP 75130-75142 ca. 1955) (ACF)

Regards,
Ed Hawkins





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links





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Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

Jerry Dziedzic
 

I'm certain Clark and Ed are referring to the 1958 cu ft design. Can't add any other examples of evenly-spaced hatches to Ed's list without referring to my files.

If we consider the 1790 cu ft design, all the 10-hatch versions had evenly spaced hatches. CNJ 59100-59149 were evenly-spaced 8-hatch cars. I may be able to find other examples when I catch up with my files.

And's long's I'm at it, we cement heads have usually referred to the 1790 cu ft design as "drop-frame" or "bent-frame". I propose that we adhere to convention and call them fishbelly cars. Can't explain why I never thought of this before. Objections?

Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On Apr 9, 2010, at 8:30 AM, rockroll50401 wrote:

Jerry touched on hatch spacing. How many customers bought cars with
evenly spaced hatches? (Not the normal center two together)
Clark Propst
Clark,
The following cars had evenly-spaced hatches. They were built between
Jan. 1947 and Sept. 1950. It's possible there were others, but this is
the list of cars that I'm aware of.

GM&O 80000-80049 (Pullman-Standard), 80500-80649 (ACF, two groups)
M&StL 70101-70199 odd (Pulman-Standard)
MILW 99325-99574 (Milw. Rd. shops)
SHPX 25478-25480 (leased to Westvaco Chemical) (ACF)
SI 4003-4025 (13 cars sold to NP 75130-75142 ca. 1955) (ACF)

Regards,
Ed Hawkins




Models for sale

Clark Propst
 

I have several operational resin freight cars for sale.

If you'd like a list, photos, price.

Please contact me off list at: cepropst@q.com
Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: ACF post-war box cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Richard, this is from my own notes on that article that I wrote
down more than 10 years ago --

MM 9/1990 pp.24-27 photo 1938 prototype ACFX #30000, drawings for 1948
standard design car, text, many photos ACL/ATSF/DT&I/C&EI/ERIE/CMO/ITC/
DL&W/NKP/RI/SERX/NJI&I/RDG/MKT -- but only the NKP & DT&I cars are
clearly of the standard design! Others follow AAR standard design
practices

But I don't know who is to blame -- the author, or the editor/publisher?
Certainly in 1990 I could barely tell one box car from another, so I know
I've learned a lot in the last 20 years!

Tim O'Connor

At 4/9/2010 12:22 PM Friday, you wrote:
No, I don't have any evidence to the contrary. The only evidence I have is that the series should not have been included among those described in the article. That is true of almost all the cars shown in the article. Apparently we've gotten a little smarter and better informed in the last 20 years.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: ACF post-war box cars

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Thanks, Richard!

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
richtownsend@netscape.net
Sent: Friday, April 09, 2010 12:22 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ACF post-war box cars



No, I don't have any evidence to the contrary. The only evidence I have is
that the series should not have been included among those described in the
article. That is true of almost all the cars shown in the article. Apparently
we've gotten a little smarter and better informed in the last 20 years.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil
<mailto:elden.j.gatwood%40usace.army.mil> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:34 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] ACF post-war box cars

Could you please clarify what you are discussing RE the PRR 600000 series? I
was not aware these had anything other than the standard SREM diagonal panel
roof and R/3/4 rolling pin ends. Do you have other evidence? I would love to
see that!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
[mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
Donald Ford
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 1:53 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ACF post-war box cars

Richard
I got out that article and went into my files and the only car that seems to
be close to the ACF car is the Nickel Plate car as it has the same side lill
with no tabs and the same ends. Looking at the end of the roof it seams to
have diffenent seam where the end and the roof meet. thsi could be the "split
panel" roof. All the other cars are not close. The one series called out of
the PRR cars is a riveted car ( 600000-601999).
None of the pictures show enough of the roof to make a judgement. I may be
wrong in my guess about the roof on the NKP car as where the end and roof
meet on the drawing with the "split panel" roof showes a riveted seam. Of all
the pictures where you can see the ends only the NKP and DT&I cars have the
same ends like the ACF car.
Anyway confussing!
Don Ford
Kanab UT

________________________________
From: "richtownsend@netscape.net <mailto:richtownsend%40netscape.net>
<mailto:richtownsend%40netscape.net> "
<richtownsend@netscape.net <mailto:richtownsend%40netscape.net>
<mailto:richtownsend%40netscape.net> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 1:36:29 PM
Subject: [STMFC] ACF post-war box cars

There was a Todd Sullivan article in the Sept. 90 MM on ACF 1948 design box
cars. It talks about ACF using a "split panel" roof (as opposed to a
rectangular or diagonal panel -- similar to the "Despatch" roof) and
"dartnaught" ends on certain cars. The article specifically calls out DT&I
14000-14299 and 14300-14549, MKT 97001-97300 and 97301-97800, and Reading
107500-107999 and 10800 (sic) -108499. It includes plans for MKT 92548 (which
is not among those called as being of this particular design). The photos in
this article are confusing to say the least. The title illustration has
nothing to do with the subject of the article, being ACFX 30000 a 1938 welded
demonstrator car (I think). I can accept that since I have no intention of
modeling that car. But also included in the photos are the following:

ACL 24000-24999
ATSF 33500-33999
C&EI 66300-64299 (did they count backwards?) Erie 90500-91199 CMO 38300-39098
ITC 5700-5709 DL&W 54000-54999 RI 23000-23999 and 24000-24999 NKP 20200-20499
PRR 600000-601999 and 602000-603499 Reading ? (showing 109300) SERX 976-1027
NJI&I 100-199 MKT 91500-92000 (again outside the series called out in the
article)

Based on the photos in the article, the DL&W, NKP, SERX, and NJI&I are not
among the cars with the dartnaught ends and split panel roof. Looking at Ed
Hawkins's article in the 11/90 RMJ, it appears that the Erie cars are out,
too, as are the PRR 602000-603499. Another Ed Hawkins article, from the 10/90
RMJ, seems to rule out others (ATSF, C&EI, ITC, and RI 24000 series) since he
says they had rectangular panel or diagonal panel roofs.

So here is my question. What 40' box cars did have the combination of split
panel roofs and dartnaught ends? I would be pleased to learn that the RI
23000 series cars are among these.

I am contemplating building an example of these cars using Branchline
dartnaught ends and a cut-down Despatch roof from a Branchline 50' box car
kit.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ACF post-war box cars

Richard Townsend
 

No, I don't have any evidence to the contrary. The only evidence I have is that the series should not have been included among those described in the article. That is true of almost all the cars shown in the article. Apparently we've gotten a little smarter and better informed in the last 20 years.


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: Gatwood, Elden J SAD <elden.j.gatwood@usace.army.mil>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, Apr 9, 2010 6:34 am
Subject: RE: [STMFC] ACF post-war box cars




Could you please clarify what you are discussing RE the PRR 600000 series? I
was not aware these had anything other than the standard SREM diagonal panel
roof and R/3/4 rolling pin ends. Do you have other evidence? I would love
to see that!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Donald Ford
Sent: Thursday, April 08, 2010 1:53 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ACF post-war box cars



Richard
I got out that article and went into my files and the only car that seems to
be close to the ACF car is the Nickel Plate car as it has the same side lill
with no tabs and the same ends. Looking at the end of the roof it seams to
have diffenent seam where the end and the roof meet. thsi could be the
"split panel" roof. All the other cars are not close. The one series called
out of the PRR cars is a riveted car ( 600000-601999).
None of the pictures show enough of the roof to make a judgement. I may be
wrong in my guess about the roof on the NKP car as where the end and roof
meet on the drawing with the "split panel" roof showes a riveted seam. Of
all the pictures where you can see the ends only the NKP and DT&I cars have
the same ends like the ACF car.
Anyway confussing!
Don Ford
Kanab UT

________________________________
From: "richtownsend@netscape.net <mailto:richtownsend%40netscape.net> "
<richtownsend@netscape.net <mailto:richtownsend%40netscape.net> >
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 1:36:29 PM
Subject: [STMFC] ACF post-war box cars



There was a Todd Sullivan article in the Sept. 90 MM on ACF 1948 design box
cars. It talks about ACF using a "split panel" roof (as opposed to a
rectangular or diagonal panel -- similar to the "Despatch" roof) and
"dartnaught" ends on certain cars. The article specifically calls out DT&I
14000-14299 and 14300-14549, MKT 97001-97300 and 97301-97800, and Reading
107500-107999 and 10800 (sic) -108499. It includes plans for MKT 92548 (which
is not among those called as being of this particular design). The photos in
this article are confusing to say the least. The title illustration has
nothing to do with the subject of the article, being ACFX 30000 a 1938 welded
demonstrator car (I think). I can accept that since I have no intention of
modeling that car. But also included in the photos are the following:

ACL 24000-24999
ATSF 33500-33999
C&EI 66300-64299 (did they count backwards?) Erie 90500-91199 CMO 38300-39098
ITC 5700-5709 DL&W 54000-54999 RI 23000-23999 and 24000-24999 NKP 20200-20499
PRR 600000-601999 and 602000-603499 Reading ? (showing 109300) SERX 976-1027
NJI&I 100-199 MKT 91500-92000 (again outside the series called out in the
article)

Based on the photos in the article, the DL&W, NKP, SERX, and NJI&I are not
among the cars with the dartnaught ends and split panel roof. Looking at Ed
Hawkins's article in the 11/90 RMJ, it appears that the Erie cars are out,
too, as are the PRR 602000-603499. Another Ed Hawkins article, from the 10/90
RMJ, seems to rule out others (ATSF, C&EI, ITC, and RI 24000 series) since he
says they had rectangular panel or diagonal panel roofs.

So here is my question. What 40' box cars did have the combination of split
panel roofs and dartnaught ends? I would be pleased to learn that the RI
23000 series cars are among these.

I am contemplating building an example of these cars using Branchline
dartnaught ends and a cut-down Despatch roof from a Branchline 50' box car
kit.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

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Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

StephenK
 

The 3-car set was what kept me from buying them until now. I now have two weathered cars that came out nice, and 4 unbuilt cars in a state of flux.

Steve "Cleveland" Kay

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "cvlk" <cvlk@...> wrote:

IIRC the KATO HO and N ACF Covered Hopper colors were researched with the assistance of Ed Hawkins. Craig Holmberg was doing the HO R&D at the time, just before and after I joined Kato, I believe the prototype drawings used were an ACF car. Not to say the interpretation of the colors by the factory was perfect..... there wasn't very much in the way of a sample / approval process and it is a wonder that things turned out as well as they did.

I do recall Craig having battles with the factory regarding their "pran" to tool the car as a three-car kit, making it impossible to offer singles. I cannot recall any accuracy issues but that doesn't mean there were none. It is a shame that the cars (because of the price point and HO 3-pack kit / N 2-pack and Kato's inability to supply smaller production lots with more roadnames and roadnumbers) turned out to be dogs in the marketplace. The N Scale version sold poorly and had bum couplers to add insult to injury...so never made it to the planned second production of "peek-a-boo" version with the cutouts to the slide sheets. Hopefully Inter-Mountain will see fit to offer their cars in N soon.

Charlie Vlk

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Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

StephenK
 

Thanks for the comments. I am enjoying this thread in a major way. I like my cars to be accurate but I am not going to worry about what I consider minor inaccuracies. On the other hand, precast ladder rings are not usually acceptable to me if the color of the car is light (in this case gray). But those rungs on darker, i.e. Black or Mineral Red cars look fine to me and I will be going in that direction. The fact that Pollyscale paint will stay on the car is good news to me.

Thanks for all the input!

Steve "Cleveland" Kay

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "jdziedzic08802" <jerdz@...> wrote:



My, my. This is the most traffic I remember a covered hopper post ever generating. And there's lots of interesting info, from painting tips for flexible parts to the origins of Kato's SSW paint color.

I agree with Ben: LNE ceased operations, but did not go through bankruptcy proceedings.

I agree with Tim: the LNE cars that found their way to UP were the Greenville cars, not the "Kato/ACF/GATC/Ralston" design. In my opinion, L&NE's Greenville cars were very similar to PS-2's in appearance.

On the other hand, Tim, forgive me a mild challenge. I'm not certain that P-S ever delivered CH's to L&NE. I'd have to go back to my files to back up this challenge. I don't mind you setting the record straight before I actually get to my files.

Scott, it's nice to hear from you. Been many years. Forgive me another challenge: I regard hatches and hatch locking devices as optional appliances, not as distinguishing design features. ACF cars delivered to major "anthracite road" cement carriers varied in hatch design, configuration (not just 8 or 10-hatch versions, but the longitudinal spacing of the hatches along the roof) and locking devices.

Cleveland Kay, I enjoy debating details like this with other listers. But this may be more information than you asked for. Decide if you want scale models exact in every detail or some degree of "close enough." I think the Kato cars are good models, and I have several examples running on my layout. Get some prototype photos, model away, and enjoy.

Finally, Mr. Moderator, please don't jail me for the advice to Cleveland Kay, though it runs a little astray of the STMFC mission. This is fun for all of us, each in his own way.


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Aley, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Aley@> wrote:

Steve,

I didn't see any other responses to your query. Since you model the UP, why not model a UP car? Assuming these are the 2-bay covered hoppers, the open-side kit is suitable for UP CH-70-1, and the closed-side kit is suitable for the UP CH-70-2 and CH-70-3.

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of StephenK
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2010 7:24 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers



Actually I'm the Steve Kay from Cleveland, Ohio, and I model UP. Most of the western roads that had these cars painted them gray, and the Kato model have a lot of flexible plastic parts, so painting them could be a problem. I am looking at alternatives, but leaving all the cars in their factory paint jobs is another alternative....

SKay

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, "jdziedzic08802" <jerdz@> wrote:

I have no opinion of the Kato couplers. I'd take advantage of experience and use the couplers you're most familiar with -- Accumates.

If you're the Steve Kay from NJ, L&NE would be a natural choice for a third road name. I believe that Champ still offers decals in L&NE's billboard scheme. They're intended for a different prototype than this car, but they have enough material to select from to letter this car.

N&B would be another selection. Herald King had decals. Don't know whether they remain available.

There are probably minor differences in detail between the Kato version and the prototypes I suggested. One I'd want to check is whether or not the prototype has the triangular cut out in the sides at the center of the car. I don't remember whether the Kato car has this feature or not.

I can suggest L&NE and N&B number series to you, but this will have to wait until mid-April because I'm away from my files right now. Let me know if you'd like this.


Jerry Dziedzic
Pattenburg, NJ

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, "StephenK" <thekays100@> wrote:

Last weekend I picked up two sets of Kato covered hopper kits at a local trainshow for very little $$$. One is Wabash and one is Erie. I searched the group but was unable to get answers to two questions. First, are the Kato couplers worth using, or should I used the Accumates that I generally use? Also, since I really don't need three of each of these(which is why I never bought these before--at the regular price), I am looking for other prototypes/decals to paint these. I found some nice sets from Prime Mover Decals for EL, but would like a few other alternatives. Any suggestions?

Thanks in advance,

Steve Kay


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Re: Kato ACF Covered Hoppers

Ed Hawkins
 

On Apr 9, 2010, at 8:30 AM, rockroll50401 wrote:

Jerry touched on hatch spacing. How many customers bought cars with
evenly spaced hatches? (Not the normal center two together)
Clark Propst
Clark,
The following cars had evenly-spaced hatches. They were built between
Jan. 1947 and Sept. 1950. It's possible there were others, but this is
the list of cars that I'm aware of.

GM&O 80000-80049 (Pullman-Standard), 80500-80649 (ACF, two groups)
M&StL 70101-70199 odd (Pulman-Standard)
MILW 99325-99574 (Milw. Rd. shops)
SHPX 25478-25480 (leased to Westvaco Chemical) (ACF)
SI 4003-4025 (13 cars sold to NP 75130-75142 ca. 1955) (ACF)

Regards,
Ed Hawkins

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