Date   

Mount Vernon underframe /RP Cyc question

hockenheim68
 

For those that have read Patrick Wider's USRA double sheathed article in RP Cyclopedia Vol 16, were there any pictures or drawings of Mount Vernon Car Co. underframes included? I'm trying to figure out crossbearer number/location and short of a period car builder's cyc (unavailable in my area) I thought the RP cyc might be my best bet...

Thanks,

Andrew Hutchinson
Surrey BC Canada


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Once again, it's been proven that I learn something new every day!

Paying attention to a particular road's practice for treating (or not treating) wood used for its flatcar decks is called for.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

On Apr 23, 2010, at 8:59 AM, Steve Lucas wrote:
Wood flatcar decks AFAIK were creosoted lumber.
Steve,

Um, "Not Exactly". We've had this discussion before, and the answer
is that it depends on the railroad. For example, the PRR used
untreated OAK for flat car decks. In the Steam era, this was
considered a cheap hardwood and was readily available. OTOH, the
ATSF used creosoted pine (that was the wood that was most available
to them). The neat part about this is that your flat car decks
should reflect this and their appearance should vary because of it.
So, for my IM ATSF flat car, which is relatively new, I used a pretty
dark brown stain to duplicate the creosote, while a new PRR flat car
deck (or individual board) should be a lighter color.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
Wood flatcar decks AFAIK were creosoted lumber.
Depends on the railroad, Steve. To name just one railroad with a really big flat car fleet, SP used treated but NOT creosoted wood. Photos show a light wood color.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Steve:



You are correct in what you say. In the case of commercially available
models, our choice is either the laser-cut from marine-plywood or plastic.
If that's your choice which would you take.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Steve Lucas
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2010 6:59 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 60-foot flat cars





Paul--

Yes and no. Depends on how weathered a flat car deck you're modelling.
Nothing wrong with the work on some better plastic STMFC's.

But, I personally use the Jack Work method to stain wood for models--1 part
Fiebing's leather dye

http://www.fiebing. <http://www.fiebing.com/Dyes.aspx> com/Dyes.aspx

to 30 parts rubbing alcohol--more alcohol=lighter stain--less
alcohol==darker stain. I find this to be a good start for weathering all
stripwood.

Wood flatcar decks AFAIK were creosoted lumber. So the darkness of the
creosote will disguise coarse wood grain in stripwood on a model. Though the
better quality stuff like Mt. Albert Scale Lumber has a very fine grain.

I'm very partial to board-by-board wood decking on model flatcars. Easy to
stain and distress to model heavy wear on a flatcar deck. I think that the
disdain for wood model flatcar decks has been brought on by those
laser-cut-from-marine-plywood things that adorn some models.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com, "buygonet"
<buygone@...> wrote:

Andy:

Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks? I sure
hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not scale down on the
wood wecks and the plactic ones look a 1000% better. What does everybody
else think?

Paul C. Koehler


Re: 60-foot flat cars

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Good morning Group,

I have found that following the deck painting instructions included with the Tichy flatcar produces one of the better looking styrene "wood" decks that I have seen. Or done.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On Apr 23, 2010, at 6:20 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:


On Apr 22, 2010, at 10:32 PM, buygonet wrote:

Andy:

Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks?
I sure hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not
scale down on the wood wecks and the plactic ones look a 1000%
better. What does everybody else think?

Paul C. Koehler
Paul,

This is one of those subjects that stirs up passions <VBG>. Given my
propensity to model WWII era loads, I have a fair number of open top
cars where the prototype had wood decks and the models have about an
even mix of wood and plastic/resin decks (and even a brass deck or
two). At events such as Cocoa Beach and Naperville, the decks that
get the compliments are the wood decks. I prefer board by board
construction, as it does not leave the obvious gaps between boards
that either laser cutting or plastic/brass decks have to convey the
impression of boards and prestaining gives some variation in color.
I always sand the boards with 300 grit to remove as much visible
grain as possible and I discard pieces with grain that is too obvious.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Bruce Smith
 

On Apr 23, 2010, at 8:59 AM, Steve Lucas wrote:
Wood flatcar decks AFAIK were creosoted lumber.
Steve,

Um, "Not Exactly". We've had this discussion before, and the answer is that it depends on the railroad. For example, the PRR used untreated OAK for flat car decks. In the Steam era, this was considered a cheap hardwood and was readily available. OTOH, the ATSF used creosoted pine (that was the wood that was most available to them). The neat part about this is that your flat car decks should reflect this and their appearance should vary because of it. So, for my IM ATSF flat car, which is relatively new, I used a pretty dark brown stain to duplicate the creosote, while a new PRR flat car deck (or individual board) should be a lighter color.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: gon model

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Clark--

This just so cool! I have to try this!

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Clark and Eileen" <cepropst@...> wrote:

Got this link in a Dennis Eggert email forwarded to me. Hope Dennis or Jeff don't mind that you take a look?

http://www.yardoffice.com/RR/Modeling/howto/tangons.html

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Paul--

Yes and no. Depends on how weathered a flat car deck you're modelling. Nothing wrong with the work on some better plastic STMFC's.

But, I personally use the Jack Work method to stain wood for models--1 part Fiebing's leather dye

http://www.fiebing.com/Dyes.aspx

to 30 parts rubbing alcohol--more alcohol=lighter stain--less alcohol==darker stain. I find this to be a good start for weathering all stripwood.

Wood flatcar decks AFAIK were creosoted lumber. So the darkness of the creosote will disguise coarse wood grain in stripwood on a model. Though the better quality stuff like Mt. Albert Scale Lumber has a very fine grain.

I'm very partial to board-by-board wood decking on model flatcars. Easy to stain and distress to model heavy wear on a flatcar deck. I think that the disdain for wood model flatcar decks has been brought on by those laser-cut-from-marine-plywood things that adorn some models.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "buygonet" <buygone@...> wrote:

Andy:

Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks? I sure hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not scale down on the wood wecks and the plactic ones look a 1000% better. What does everybody else think?

Paul C. Koehler


gon model

Clark Propst
 

Got this link in a Dennis Eggert email forwarded to me. Hope Dennis or Jeff don't mind that you take a look?

http://www.yardoffice.com/RR/Modeling/howto/tangons.html

Clark Propst
Mason City Iowa


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Bruce Smith
 

On Apr 22, 2010, at 10:32 PM, buygonet wrote:

Andy:

Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks? I sure hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not scale down on the wood wecks and the plactic ones look a 1000% better. What does everybody else think?

Paul C. Koehler
Paul,

This is one of those subjects that stirs up passions <VBG>. Given my propensity to model WWII era loads, I have a fair number of open top cars where the prototype had wood decks and the models have about an even mix of wood and plastic/resin decks (and even a brass deck or two). At events such as Cocoa Beach and Naperville, the decks that get the compliments are the wood decks. I prefer board by board construction, as it does not leave the obvious gaps between boards that either laser cutting or plastic/brass decks have to convey the impression of boards and prestaining gives some variation in color. I always sand the boards with 300 grit to remove as much visible grain as possible and I discard pieces with grain that is too obvious.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


A.R.A Car Service Division

Bill Welch
 

Can someone explain what the role and responsibilities were of the A.R.A's Car Service Division, or point me to a resource that explains them?

Did they, for example, help a railroad secure enough auto cars or refrigerator cars when the need arose?

I tried a search of the archives and did not find anything helpful in answering this question.

Bill Welch


N.P. reefers

bill_d_goat
 

I have some Intermountain WWII era reefers, 90,000-90999 class, which are orange. Accurail has a new ad out for a three pack in the same number series in yellow.
Can anybody tell me which is correct, especially for 1943?
Thanks
Bill Williams


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Paul Koehler wrote:
Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks? I sure hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not scale down on the wood decks and the plastic ones look a 100% better. What does everybody else think?
Full agreement. I've struggled to try and weather "real" wood convincingly (and hide the huge grain), which I think is tough in HO scale. By comparison, I believe I can get a realistic darkening and grayness easily on a plastic deck, along with distressing it without creating immense "splinters" (which they would be if HO).

Tony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail: thompson@signaturepress.com


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Andy Carlson
 

Paul, I agree with you almost 100% (I, by nature, never agree with anyone 100%!). I placed my order with Bill for only plastic deck versions, though Bill did not mention what version(s) would be available. I will ask,
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





________________________________
From: buygonet <buygone@earthlink.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Thu, April 22, 2010 8:32:26 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 60-foot flat cars


Andy:

Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks? I sure hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not scale down on the wood wecks and the plactic ones look a 1000% better. What does everybody else think?

Paul C. Koehler

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. com, Andy Carlson <midcentury@ ...> wrote:

Bill at Red Caboose informed me that he intends to run some SP F-70-7 flat car KITS this summer, with Accurail "Bettendorf" trucks. These kits have been hard to get the last few years. No word about their future availability as RTR from Intermountain (I did not ask).

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





____________ _________ _________ __
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@ ...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. com
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:20:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 60-foot flat cars



Rich, Tony didn't say, so I will add -- I think the F-70-3 can be
kitbashed very readily using the Red Caboose F-70-7 flat cars as a
starting point. I recall Dan Smith saying he intended to do this.
I admit it's a pretty expensive kitbash!

Tim O'Connor

Richard Townsendt wrote:
I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can
anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59
ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on
line somewhere:

SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121
Rich, the SP cars (Class F-70-3, built in 1942) did indeed have
fishbelly sides. I used photos of these cars in my Vol. 3 on SP
freight cars, and can send you scans off-list if you want. The second
group you list is the same F-70-3 cars, with the numbers they received
in the 1956 (and thereafter) system renumbering.

Tony Thompson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Burning boxcar photo help

Steve and Barb Hile
 

I remember struggling with deciding whether this one was a RI car, or not,
when we were picking slides for the book. In the end, we conclude that it
was a car from the RI series 140000- 140999 as shown in RP Cyc 18. There
are a number of matching spotting features and no real glaring
discrepancies. It would be nice to be able to see the trucks better in the
photo, but they look like the Dalman 2 levels that were on the RI cars.



It was such a cool shot and shows details in ways not normally seen as well
as illustrating the loose loading of coke in a boxcar.



Regards,

Steve Hile



_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
al_brown03
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 11:00 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Burning boxcar photo help





There were a lot of variations on the XM-1 design, in ends and roofs and
doors and other less visible features, to the point of discussion whether
certain cars are or aren't "true" XM-1s. Pat Wider discusses them in RP CYC
18, pp 31-56.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com, Tim O'Connor
<timboconnor@...> wrote:

Lester

I thought all XM-1's had flat plate riveted ends. This car is from
Rock Island 140000-140999 built by AC&F in 1929 w/ dreadnaught ends
and a Murphy radial roof. The classic XM-1 had a peaked roof. I'll
admit in other respects it does look a lot like an XM-1.

Tim O'Connor


At 4/17/2010 10:02 AM Saturday, you wrote:
All, In Morning Sun Book, Rock Island Color Guide to Freight and
Passenger Equipment on page 34 there is a photo of a burning boxcar. I
believe it is a XM-1 boxcar design based on pratt truss and end design.
Is it an XM-1?
Lester Breuer


Re: Rock Island Modified 1937 AAR Boxcars

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Intermountain did a batch of these cars for the Mid-Continent Region NMRA a
few years ago with 4 road numbers. The ones listed in the flyer do not
replicate at least the one that I have. We provided them with information
and they did a good job matching the lettering. As far as I know, they were
not in any kind of captive service, but rather rolling billboards for
general through freight service.



It is good to see some more in general circulation.



Regards,

Steve Hile



_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Brian J Carlson
Sent: Wednesday, April 21, 2010 7:53 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Rock Island Modified 1937 AAR Boxcars





Intermountain has announced some more Rock Island Modified 1937 AAR Boxcars,
link below. Since the Modified 1937 AAR cars comprised nearly 25% of the RI
Boxcar fleet in 1957 I wanted to add one to the layout. However these cars
are decorated in the "Ship Rocket Freight" scheme. I don't know much about
this scheme. When was it applied? Did it restrict the cars to any certain
service? Did it change the class from XM to AMP or XAP, approximately 56 of
the 3926 car fleet were so designated? Thanks.
http://www.imrcmode <http://www.imrcmodels.com/flyer287.htm>
ls.com/flyer287.htm

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
prrk41361@yahoo. <mailto:prrk41361%40yahoo.com> com


Re: 60-foot flat cars

Paul <buygone@...>
 

All:



I guess I should have spell checked my post before hitting send. Here is
what it should have said. "Did Bill say whether or not they would have
plastic or wood decks? I sure hope they are the plastic ones as the wood
grain does not scale down on the wood decks and the plastic ones look a 100%
better. What does everybody else think?



Paul C. Koehler






_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
buygonet
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2010 8:32 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: 60-foot flat cars





Andy:

Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks? I sure
hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not scale down on the
wood wecks and the plactic ones look a 1000% better. What does everybody
else think?

Paul C. Koehler

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com, Andy Carlson
<midcentury@...> wrote:

Bill at Red Caboose informed me that he intends to run some SP F-70-7 flat
car KITS this summer, with Accurail "Bettendorf" trucks. These kits have
been hard to get the last few years. No word about their future availability
as RTR from Intermountain (I did not ask).

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups. <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> com
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:20:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 60-foot flat cars



Rich, Tony didn't say, so I will add -- I think the F-70-3 can be
kitbashed very readily using the Red Caboose F-70-7 flat cars as a
starting point. I recall Dan Smith saying he intended to do this.
I admit it's a pretty expensive kitbash!

Tim O'Connor

Richard Townsendt wrote:
I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can
anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59
ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on
line somewhere:

SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121
Rich, the SP cars (Class F-70-3, built in 1942) did indeed have
fishbelly sides. I used photos of these cars in my Vol. 3 on SP
freight cars, and can send you scans off-list if you want. The second
group you list is the same F-70-3 cars, with the numbers they received
in the 1956 (and thereafter) system renumbering.

Tony Thompson





Re: 60-foot flat cars

buygonet <buygone@...>
 

Andy:

Did Bill say whether or not they would have plastic or wood decks? I sure hope they are the plastic ones as the wood grain does not scale down on the wood wecks and the plactic ones look a 1000% better. What does everybody else think?

Paul C. Koehler

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Andy Carlson <midcentury@...> wrote:

Bill at Red Caboose informed me that he intends to run some SP F-70-7 flat car KITS this summer, with Accurail "Bettendorf" trucks. These kits have been hard to get the last few years. No word about their future availability as RTR from Intermountain (I did not ask).

-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA





________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, April 5, 2010 7:20:27 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] 60-foot flat cars



Rich, Tony didn't say, so I will add -- I think the F-70-3 can be
kitbashed very readily using the Red Caboose F-70-7 flat cars as a
starting point. I recall Dan Smith saying he intended to do this.
I admit it's a pretty expensive kitbash!

Tim O'Connor

Richard Townsendt wrote:
I'm looking to model a 60-foot flat car with fishbelly sides. Can
anyone tell whether any of the following 60-footers from the Jan 59
ORER have such sides, and if there might be photos of any of them on
line somewhere:

SP 79825-79954
SP 580000-580121
Rich, the SP cars (Class F-70-3, built in 1942) did indeed have
fishbelly sides. I used photos of these cars in my Vol. 3 on SP
freight cars, and can send you scans off-list if you want. The second
group you list is the same F-70-3 cars, with the numbers they received
in the 1956 (and thereafter) system renumbering.

Tony Thompson





Re: Burning boxcar photo help

frograbbit602
 

Al and Tim,
Thank You for your information for the RI burning boxcar photo.
Lester Breuer


Other Interesting Google Books

railsnw1 <railsnw@...>
 

While looking for ORER's on Google Books I found some other interesting periodicals:

Official Freight Classifications - Has anything and everything that could be shipped by rail with classifications. Editions from 1912 to 1916

Railway Line Clearances and Car Dimensions - Has listing by railroads on maximum car size and weight. Also has numerous drawings on properly securing loads. Editions from 1897 to 1919

Richard Wilkens

93681 - 93700 of 183566