Date   

Re: Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers

Andrew Miller <aslmmiller@...>
 

I knew someone would be introducing a 40' plug door iced reefer soon, because I just finished a project to build 15 of them using the old Trains Miniature sides with I/M roofs and ends and an Accurail floor. For the FGEX-WFEX-BREX cars as well as the PFE R40-26 I used the I/M diagonal panel roof and improved dreadnought ends from the R40-25 they did some years ago for the Amarillo Museum. For the various models of SFRD cars I used the I/M SFRD ends and SFRD, rectangular or diagonal panel roofs and straight or fishbelly centersill Accurail floors depending on the SFRD model.

Now to my point. The same technique might be tried to improve the forthcomming Accurail cars. Instead of carving ladders off the ends, you might replace the ends with I/M ends!

regards,

Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Carlson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers



Bill mentions his dread concerning the ladder carving on the ends. Perhaps Dennis could do us STMFC'ers a favor, and hold off to last the cutting in the end ladders, and run some bodies with the "unfinished" ends, letting them be available to us who appreciate such generosity.

I remember years ago Terry Wegmann ran a few sets of his "Details West" R-40-23 dreadnaught end w/o ladder brackets. Boy, I wish I had grabbed a couple more of those...
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

________________________________
From: lnbill <fgexbill@...>

What I am dreading is carving the ladders off of the ends.

Bill Welch

-


Re: Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers

Andy Carlson
 

Bill mentions his dread concerning the ladder carving on the ends. Perhaps Dennis could do us STMFC'ers a favor, and hold off to last the cutting in the end ladders, and run some bodies with the "unfinished" ends, letting them be available to us who appreciate such generosity.

I remember years ago Terry Wegmann ran a few sets of his "Details West" R-40-23 dreadnaught end w/o ladder brackets. Boy, I wish I had grabbed a couple more of those...
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




________________________________
From: lnbill <fgexbill@...>



What I am dreading is carving the ladders off of the ends.

Bill Welch

-


Re: PRR boxcar jargon

J.A. Phillips
 

Thanks fellers. Looks like you got it right, CF, but we still need to talk to you about what "AAR" stands for!

Muahahaha!

John Phillips
Seattle


Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers

Bill Welch
 

Not to pick too many nits, but technically speaking the hinged doors on reefers are "plug doors" are they not? I have come to prefer "sliding door" and "hinged door' in talking about reefer doors.

From the way Dennis describes the hinged door car version Accurail is doing (diagonal panel roof, improved Dreadnaught ends), these are cars built for FGE (500), WFE (250), BRE (200), and MNX (100) in 1949. I am planning to post a table showing all of the 40-foot steel cars owned by the FGE/WFE/BRE consortium. I have just noticed I did not describe the ends in the table, so I need to fix that. Any of you that have my handout from Naperville or Cocoa Beach on the steel cars has this table. There were variations on the sill configurations, should be an easy fix. The BRE and MNX versions had door handles at a 45 degree angle (or 135 degrees) rather than the usual 90 degrees, another easy fix.

What I am dreading is carving the ladders off of the ends.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "devansprr" <devans1@...> wrote:


Yes, plug door version also. Walthers got the info for the 2011 catalog, due out next October; we haven't put any info up because I didn't think Walthers was going to put it up this early. At this point, we are likely looking at a October release. The plug door car will be 8500 series SKU's, and will likely be out first.

The plug door car is specifically a WFEX car (don't have the numbers handy) but FGEX and BREX both had similar cars. spotting features include diagonal panel roof, improved Dreadnaught ends with the one "squished" rib, and plain lapped side sheets with single rivet rows.

The swing door car will have the same roof and ends; most likely double rivet rows (hat section posts).

As planned now, both cars will have acetal sill steps and brake rodding, like our gondola kit.

Now, I need to get back to work on them.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.
Dennis,

From what I can find, these cars started being built during WWII, and being in the WWII modeler minority (as opposed to all of the transition era modelers on this esteemed list), a WFEX with only "Great Northern" in the herald, and Ventilator-Refrigerator on the side would be greatly appreciated (swing door only). A good picture of such a lettering scheme is on the RPI site.

A small group of cars is listed under WFEX in the '43 ORER, an additional numbers are reserved for a new group of cars, but noted to be 5 inches taller inside and out than the first batch already built. This is the only ORER I have - don't know for sure if the subsequent cars were taller.

Keep up all the great work! Really appreciate your selling steam era freight car kits!

Dave Evans
(A late arriving SPF who knows not to use hyphens, but has actually encountered one or two official PRR documents with hyphens - don't tell anyone ;-)


Dashes in PRR Car Classes (was Re: 40-foot FGE steel reefers)

Benjamin Hom
 

Dave Evans wrote:
"A late arriving SPF who knows not to use hyphens, but has actually encountered one or two official PRR documents with hyphens - don't tell anyone ;-)"

Dave, since you're late to arrive, I reference you to my post on this
subject made on June 20, 2006 (Message #55370):

"In the case of the Pennsy, I don't dispute the fact that PRR
documentation regarding car classes in truck lists, internal
memorandums, etc., is inconsistent, but the bottom line, especially
for modelers and folks restoring 1:1 rolling stock, what is painted
on the side of the car is ultimately what we have to go by.

I stand by my assertion that the Pennsy was remarkably consistent,
and if anyone can turn up photographic documentation of cars in NK3,
NK4, or CK with dashes in the car classes other than the group of
Class X43C boxcars built by AC&F, you're welcome to do so.
(Photomanips don't count.) With a total fleet of over 250,000
freight cars, you would think more examples would be documented.

I'm also aware of some cars painted with dashes in the car classes
after the changeover from CK to SK1 schemes, but very few in SK2 and
virtually none in PK.

My central point: the bottom line for most of us is what's painted
on the side of the car. I'm amazed at the number of folks who will
obsess over color, but will accept inaccurate lettering. We've got
enough bad lettering and incorrect decals on the market, and the
last thing we need is to reinforce something that just isn't correct."

Since then, I still haven't turned up any other PRR cars in NK3, NK4,
or CK with dashes in car classes, and no one on this list have
produced any photo evidence to prove me wrong. (And photomanips
still don't count.)


Ben Hom


Re: Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers

WaltGCox@...
 

Great idea, I could use about 8 such bodies. Walt

In a message dated 5/13/2010 10:15:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
midcentury@... writes:

Bill mentions his dread concerning the ladder carving on the ends. Perhaps
Dennis could do us STMFC'ers a favor, and hold off to last the cutting in
the end ladders, and run some bodies with the "unfinished" ends, letting
them be available to us who appreciate such generosity.


Re: 40-foot FGE steel reefers

devansprr
 


Yes, plug door version also. Walthers got the info for the 2011 catalog, due out next October; we haven't put any info up because I didn't think Walthers was going to put it up this early. At this point, we are likely looking at a October release. The plug door car will be 8500 series SKU's, and will likely be out first.

The plug door car is specifically a WFEX car (don't have the numbers handy) but FGEX and BREX both had similar cars. spotting features include diagonal panel roof, improved Dreadnaught ends with the one "squished" rib, and plain lapped side sheets with single rivet rows.

The swing door car will have the same roof and ends; most likely double rivet rows (hat section posts).

As planned now, both cars will have acetal sill steps and brake rodding, like our gondola kit.

Now, I need to get back to work on them.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.
Dennis,

From what I can find, these cars started being built during WWII, and being in the WWII modeler minority (as opposed to all of the transition era modelers on this esteemed list), a WFEX with only "Great Northern" in the herald, and Ventilator-Refrigerator on the side would be greatly appreciated (swing door only). A good picture of such a lettering scheme is on the RPI site.

A small group of cars is listed under WFEX in the '43 ORER, an additional numbers are reserved for a new group of cars, but noted to be 5 inches taller inside and out than the first batch already built. This is the only ORER I have - don't know for sure if the subsequent cars were taller.

Keep up all the great work! Really appreciate your selling steam era freight car kits!

Dave Evans
(A late arriving SPF who knows not to use hyphens, but has actually encountered one or two official PRR documents with hyphens - don't tell anyone ;-)


Re: Murder in the Private Car

kenneth broomfield
 

I had recoreded it on my DVR and played it in the background while I worked on models. I just basically looked up when they would mention something about trains. It was not that good of movie except towards the end. I would like to know how they made the chase scene. Not bad for being that old of special effects.

Kenny Broomfield

----- Original Message ----
From: WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, May 12, 2010 10:18:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Murder in the Private Car

Thanks  Al And Pat:

I'm glad that I was able to catch this film on TCM.  I didn't watch 
most of it but my wife called me for the steam sequences at the end. 
As an SP steam modeler all I can say
is "What a treat".  A real surprise was a shot of the bridge over the 
Sacramento River  which I have from Overland and is awaiting 
installation on my layout.

Thanks for the "Heads Up".

Bill Pardie

On May 12, 2010, at 4:42 PM, Al and Patricia Westerfield wrote:

Watched the film today. It's not very good - basically an "old dark 
house" on wheels. However, it was made in close cooperation with SP. 
The finale has lots of action as the private car, uncoupled from the 
train, rolls down hill over bridges and through freight yards. One 
interesting thing. As the car uncouples on the fly the film is 
flopped so that the forward car's road name is mirror writing. Looks 
like SP didn't want its name associated with such an action. 
Recommended. - Al Westerfield

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: PRR boxcar jargon

SUVCWORR@...
 

Without! There are no hyphens in PRR freight car classes.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: whstlpnk <whstlpnk@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, May 13, 2010 1:30 am
Subject: [STMFC] PRR boxcar jargon


Can any Pennsy fan state whether X31 and X32 should be expressed with or without
a hyphen?

RSVP
John Phillips
Seattle



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: PRR boxcar jargon

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

John,

          Without !  Why do I hear a fait echo of cussing in Cantonese??

Fred Freitas




________________________________
From: whstlpnk <whstlpnk@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, May 13, 2010 1:30:00 AM
Subject: [STMFC] PRR boxcar jargon

 
Can any Pennsy fan state whether X31 and X32 should be expressed with or without a hyphen?

RSVP
John Phillips
Seattle


Re: PRR boxcar jargon

leakinmywaders
 

Oh, doesn't Ben Hom live for the day when any Pennsy fan could so state it....

Without.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@..., "whstlpnk" <whstlpnk@...> wrote:

Can any Pennsy fan state whether X31 and X32 should be expressed with or without a hyphen?

RSVP
John Phillips
Seattle


Re: PRR boxcar jargon

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

John Phillips wrote:
Can any Pennsy fan state whether X31 and X32 should be expressed with or without a hyphen?
You may get some vociferous replies, John, but the answer is: without. Always,

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


PRR boxcar jargon

J.A. Phillips
 

Can any Pennsy fan state whether X31 and X32 should be expressed with or without a hyphen?

RSVP
John Phillips
Seattle


Re: Murder in the Private Car

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Thanks Al And Pat:

I'm glad that I was able to catch this film on TCM. I didn't watch
most of it but my wife called me for the steam sequences at the end.
As an SP steam modeler all I can say
is "What a treat". A real surprise was a shot of the bridge over the
Sacramento River which I have from Overland and is awaiting
installation on my layout.

Thanks for the "Heads Up".

Bill Pardie

On May 12, 2010, at 4:42 PM, Al and Patricia Westerfield wrote:

Watched the film today. It's not very good - basically an "old dark
house" on wheels. However, it was made in close cooperation with SP.
The finale has lots of action as the private car, uncoupled from the
train, rolls down hill over bridges and through freight yards. One
interesting thing. As the car uncouples on the fly the film is
flopped so that the forward car's road name is mirror writing. Looks
like SP didn't want its name associated with such an action.
Recommended. - Al Westerfield

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



Murder in the Private Car

Al and Patricia Westerfield <westerfield@...>
 

Watched the film today. It's not very good - basically an "old dark house" on wheels. However, it was made in close cooperation with SP. The finale has lots of action as the private car, uncoupled from the train, rolls down hill over bridges and through freight yards. One interesting thing. As the car uncouples on the fly the film is flopped so that the forward car's road name is mirror writing. Looks like SP didn't want its name associated with such an action. Recommended. - Al Westerfield


Re: New York Central 765-B

Mark
 

Thanks Tim. Just trying to get a variety besides B&O.

Mark Morgan

--- On Wed, 5/12/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central 765-B
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 9:07 PM







 











Just for interest I will throw out another idea. Kadee has offered
accurate models of NYC PS-1 box cars including their catalogue number
4057 (Lot 842-B with 5-panel Superior doors) and 4079 (Lot 808-B with
Youngstown doors). Both of these are sold out at Kadee, but you might
be able to locate one somewhere or wait for a future release that Kadee
will no doubt offer. These two models have black roofs and ends to
represent the car cement applied to new NYC PS-1 box cars built from
1950 to 1952. They also come with the correct hand brake and Apex
Tri-Lok running boards & brake steps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


These are the NYC models Ed mentioned, and a couple extras. As

Ed noted these are all PS-1 1950-1953 production.



4007 NYC 170699 IY doors, 1951 reweigh 1961

http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4007l.jpg

4032 NYC 169000 7p SUP doors, 1950 original

http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4032l.jpg

4033 NYC 169004 7p SUP doors, 1950 original

http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4033l.jpg

4034 NYC 169016 7p SUP doors, 1950 original

http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4034l.jpg

4057 NYC 180199 5p SUP doors, 1952 original black ends/roof

http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4057l.jpg

4079 NYC 170750 IY doors, 1951 original, black ends/roof

http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4079l.jpg

4084 NYC 170749 IY doors, 1968 stencil, jade green repaint

http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4084l.jpg



If you can find it, try to get Kadee #4000, the undecorated "RTR"

PS-1. The early undec models came with 3 different pairs of doors

but I don't know if the newer "kit" (#4100) comes with extra doors.

http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4000l.jpg

http://www.kadee.com/ca/kit/jpg/40%27exps.jpg



Tim O'Connor

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: New York Central 765-B

Tim O'Connor
 

Just for interest I will throw out another idea. Kadee has offered
accurate models of NYC PS-1 box cars including their catalogue number
4057 (Lot 842-B with 5-panel Superior doors) and 4079 (Lot 808-B with
Youngstown doors). Both of these are sold out at Kadee, but you might
be able to locate one somewhere or wait for a future release that Kadee
will no doubt offer. These two models have black roofs and ends to
represent the car cement applied to new NYC PS-1 box cars built from
1950 to 1952. They also come with the correct hand brake and Apex
Tri-Lok running boards & brake steps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

These are the NYC models Ed mentioned, and a couple extras. As
Ed noted these are all PS-1 1950-1953 production.

4007 NYC 170699 IY doors, 1951 reweigh 1961
http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4007l.jpg
4032 NYC 169000 7p SUP doors, 1950 original
http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4032l.jpg
4033 NYC 169004 7p SUP doors, 1950 original
http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4033l.jpg
4034 NYC 169016 7p SUP doors, 1950 original
http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4034l.jpg
4057 NYC 180199 5p SUP doors, 1952 original black ends/roof
http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4057l.jpg
4079 NYC 170750 IY doors, 1951 original, black ends/roof
http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4079l.jpg
4084 NYC 170749 IY doors, 1968 stencil, jade green repaint
http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4084l.jpg

If you can find it, try to get Kadee #4000, the undecorated "RTR"
PS-1. The early undec models came with 3 different pairs of doors
but I don't know if the newer "kit" (#4100) comes with extra doors.
http://www.kadee.com/ca/40ps1/jpg/4000l.jpg
http://www.kadee.com/ca/kit/jpg/40%27exps.jpg

Tim O'Connor


Re: New York Central 765-B

Mark
 

Thank You. I took a bit of time last night(early morning) and put four cars into service, and alas the NYC car is not correct :-) . The Proto NKP car is built and shopped a NYC USRA coal car and a Bowser WM coal car.

Mark Morgan

--- On Wed, 5/12/10, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:

From: Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central 765-B
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 8:03 PM







 











On May 12, 2010, at 6:20 PM, Mark Morgan wrote:



Would another class be like the Intermountain boxcar?
Mark Morgan


Mark,

Yes, "more like" the IM box car is very appropriate. NYC had 4 orders

of PS-1 box cars delivered in 1950 through 1952. These are listed on

the PS-1 roster, available for downloading from the STMFC web site.

These prototype cars have the roof and ends as modeled by IM. Some NYC

PS-1s had 7-panel Superior doors that could be used as well. As

previously indicated the bolster tabs will require shortening and other

details as pointed out by Terry.



One can only wonder why IM produced the NYC model representing a car

built in 1948 when there were numerous better choices. Oh well.



Another option is the group of 25 NYC Pacemaker cars built in 1954 (Lot

848-B) having sides, ends, and roof that match the IM model. However,

these cars were part of an order of 100 PS-1s built for various

railroads with Pullman cushioned underframes.



Just for interest I will throw out another idea. Kadee has offered

accurate models of NYC PS-1 box cars including their catalogue number

4057 (Lot 842-B with 5-panel Superior doors) and 4079 (Lot 808-B with

Youngstown doors). Both of these are sold out at Kadee, but you might

be able to locate one somewhere or wait for a future release that Kadee

will no doubt offer. These two models have black roofs and ends to

represent the car cement applied to new NYC PS-1 box cars built from

1950 to 1952. They also come with the correct hand brake and Apex

Tri-Lok running boards & brake steps.

Regards,

Ed Hawkins



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: New York Central 765-B

Ed Hawkins
 

On May 12, 2010, at 6:20 PM, Mark Morgan wrote:

Would another class be like the Intermountain boxcar?

Mark Morgan
Mark,
Yes, "more like" the IM box car is very appropriate. NYC had 4 orders
of PS-1 box cars delivered in 1950 through 1952. These are listed on
the PS-1 roster, available for downloading from the STMFC web site.
These prototype cars have the roof and ends as modeled by IM. Some NYC
PS-1s had 7-panel Superior doors that could be used as well. As
previously indicated the bolster tabs will require shortening and other
details as pointed out by Terry.

One can only wonder why IM produced the NYC model representing a car
built in 1948 when there were numerous better choices. Oh well.

Another option is the group of 25 NYC Pacemaker cars built in 1954 (Lot
848-B) having sides, ends, and roof that match the IM model. However,
these cars were part of an order of 100 PS-1s built for various
railroads with Pullman cushioned underframes.

Just for interest I will throw out another idea. Kadee has offered
accurate models of NYC PS-1 box cars including their catalogue number
4057 (Lot 842-B with 5-panel Superior doors) and 4079 (Lot 808-B with
Youngstown doors). Both of these are sold out at Kadee, but you might
be able to locate one somewhere or wait for a future release that Kadee
will no doubt offer. These two models have black roofs and ends to
represent the car cement applied to new NYC PS-1 box cars built from
1950 to 1952. They also come with the correct hand brake and Apex
Tri-Lok running boards & brake steps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: New York Central 765-B

Mark
 

Hello, Terry

Would another class be like the Intermountain boxcar?

Mark Morgan

--- On Wed, 5/12/10, Terry Link <trlink@...> wrote:

From: Terry Link <trlink@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] New York Central 765-B
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, May 12, 2010, 5:48 PM







 











----- Original Message -----

From: "Ed Hawkins" <hawk0621@...>

recently purchased a built intermountain kit. NYC 40' PS-1 boxcar
#167646 from lot 765-B.
In case you aren't aware and for what it may be worth to you, the NYC
Lot 765-B cars in series 167000-167999 were built in 1948. This means
that the InterMountain model (patterned after prototype PS-1 box cars
built 1954 and later) has a number of characteristics that are
incorrect for the NYC Lot 765-B cars, including the wrong PS-1 ends
(cars built in 1948 lacked the six rectangles at the peak and had a
different grab arrangement on the right side of the end), the wrong
PS-1 roof (panels closest to the ends were flat), and the bolster tabs
are too wide. The prototype cars had 7-panel Superior doors, which I
don't know if the model comes with or not.


And don't forget that NYC PS-1 boxcars ( except the 25 cushioned underframe

cars ) had poling pockets and towing lugs.



Terry Link

Bramalea, Ontario, Canada

www.canadasouthern.com

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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