Date   

Re: Need Help with GATX Tank Cars from the 1950s

Bruce Smith
 

Joe,

You would pick the hardest first <VBG>. Based on the 80,000 lbs, these all appear to be 8,000 gallon tanks. Unless someone has a GATC roster listing tanks by number and builder, you're stuck with making some assumptions. While GATC did buy some cars from other builders, the majority of their cars were built to their own designs. It is my understanding that number series did not necessarily reflect purity of design or builder, but just capacity. Richard Hendrickson has given clinics on GATC cars, and among the issues would be the use of welded frames and tanks on cars build during and post WWII respectively. Additionally, he stated that many GATC cars were not used for petroleum, and were ICC 203 designs, with frangible disks rather than safety valves. If cars were pre-WWII designs, it is likely that they were the GATC type 30. GATX 64899 is unique amongst the group in that it is most likely either an ICC 105 insulated car.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On May 13, 2010, at 11:30 PM, ow802 wrote:

Folks -

I'm doing research on cars that are listed in various train consists on the PRR's Delmarva Division between 1955-1956. After looking at the 1953 ORER, I was able to narrow down what number series these tanks below to, but I don't have too much information on them other than the series and their pounds capacity.

What I need to know is:

(1) Prototype info on these cars; and

(2) Good HO Scale models to represent these cars.

Here are the cars and when they were listed:

GATX 2369; AAR Class TM; 80,000 lbs.; 1800-2899 series; empty on 8/27/56; no consignee, headed to Lewes, DE.

GATX 7156; AAR Class TM; 80,000 lbs.; 7000-7999 series; empty on 8/27/56; no consignee, headed to Lewes, DE.

GATX 25319; AAR Class TM; 80,000 lbs.; 25276-25411 series; empty on 8/27/56; going to Seacoast Products in Lewes, DE.

GATX 64899; AAR Class TPI; 80,000 lbs.; 7000-7999 series; loaded with petroleum gas on 3/8/56; going to S.P. Gas Co. in Rehoboth, DE.

Regarding Lewes, DE: there was a large fish factory that probably had fish oil/meal as a by-product (Lewes - pronounced "Lewis" is located where the Delaware Bay begins and the Atlantic Ocean ends). I am guessing that's where the cars were headed. The only other place that could use tank cars was the U.S. Army base in Lewes - I doubt they would be receiving empty tanks (but I've been known to be wrong in the past).

Any and all help would be appreciated. This is just the tip of the iceberg - in the future I've got questions on ISX, SHPX, and UTLX tank cars, but I'll leave this conversation just to these four GATX cars.

Thanks in advance,

Joe Walder



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Yahoo! Groups Links



SAL X29s? NOT

Bill Welch
 

They are probably meant to represent the steel rebuilds of the SAL's Pratt trussed SS cars with the Plate ends. Close but no cigar.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., jerryglow@... wrote:

Intermountain has just released a six car set of Red Caboose Seaboard X29 40' boxcars in the "Route of the Orange Blossom Special" paint scheme. These cars are brown with white lettering. The white herald has a red heart with the lettering "Through The Heart Of The South" inside. Here are a couple of pictures of the cars:
http://www.imrcmodels.com/distrib/redcaboose/images/RR-37101w.jpg http://www.imrcmodels.com/distrib/redcaboose/images/RR-37101aw.jpg

how accurate are these?

Jerry Glow


Re: Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers

SUVCWORR@...
 

Or Accurail could introduce a "premium" line without the grabs, ladders etc molded on in limited quantities then re-cut the dies to add the modled on parts. Since most who want the cars without the details use wire for grabs and ladders, IMHO, it would not be necessary to include these parts.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Andrew Miller <aslmmiller@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, May 13, 2010 11:18 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers


I knew someone would be introducing a 40' plug door iced reefer soon, because I
ust finished a project to build 15 of them using the old Trains Miniature sides
ith I/M roofs and ends and an Accurail floor. For the FGEX-WFEX-BREX cars as
ell as the PFE R40-26 I used the I/M diagonal panel roof and improved
readnought ends from the R40-25 they did some years ago for the Amarillo
useum. For the various models of SFRD cars I used the I/M SFRD ends and SFRD,
ectangular or diagonal panel roofs and straight or fishbelly centersill
ccurail floors depending on the SFRD model.
Now to my point. The same technique might be tried to improve the forthcomming
ccurail cars. Instead of carving ladders off the ends, you might replace the
nds with I/M ends!
regards,
Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Carlson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers


Bill mentions his dread concerning the ladder carving on the ends. Perhaps
ennis could do us STMFC'ers a favor, and hold off to last the cutting in the
nd ladders, and run some bodies with the "unfinished" ends, letting them be
vailable to us who appreciate such generosity.
I remember years ago Terry Wegmann ran a few sets of his "Details West"
-40-23 dreadnaught end w/o ladder brackets. Boy, I wish I had grabbed a couple
ore of those...
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA
________________________________
From: lnbill <fgexbill@...>
What I am dreading is carving the ladders off of the ends.
Bill Welch
-





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SAL X29s?

jerryglow2
 

Intermountain has just released a six car set of Red Caboose Seaboard X29 40' boxcars in the "Route of the Orange Blossom Special" paint scheme. These cars are brown with white lettering. The white herald has a red heart with the lettering "Through The Heart Of The South" inside. Here are a couple of pictures of the cars:
http://www.imrcmodels.com/distrib/redcaboose/images/RR-37101w.jpg http://www.imrcmodels.com/distrib/redcaboose/images/RR-37101aw.jpg

how accurate are these?

Jerry Glow


40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers correction, clarification, amplification

Bill Welch
 

I went back to look at my photos of these cars and I need to correct what I said about the door handle on the BREX/MNX cars. Without a protractor, I have to admit I am not really sure what the angle is, but fortunately we can use the same limitations the builder used. The handle is angled to fit between the bottom left hinge and a fitting designed to mesh w/a complementary fitting on the cars side to hold the door open.

All of these cars had straight side sills. I get confused because WFE and FGE had welded versions of these cars which had tabbed side sills. Maybe "Archer" will run their weld decals in 1/87th scale!

For the WFE 68400-68649 examples they had door hinges that sort of look like "Home Plate," not unlike the hinge fitted to PFE's steel reefers, maybe even the same hinge. These cars were built by Pacific Car & Foundry.

The BRE cars were built by FGE's Indiana Harbor shops while the MNX cars were built by the BRE shops at Plattsmouth, Nebraska.

FGE's 39500-39799 were built at their Alexandria, VA shops, but I am uncertain where their 39300-39499 were built.

Bill Welch


Re: PRR boxcar jargon

leakinmywaders
 

Ha--that wasn't me who put that in, I left it at "AAR"...I was edited.
Chris Frissell
Polson, MT

--- In STMFC@..., "whstlpnk" <whstlpnk@...> wrote:

Thanks fellers. Looks like you got it right, CF, but we still need to talk to you about what "AAR" stands for!

Muahahaha!

John Phillips
Seattle


Need Help with GATX Tank Cars from the 1950s

ow802 <ow802@...>
 

Folks -

I'm doing research on cars that are listed in various train consists on the PRR's Delmarva Division between 1955-1956. After looking at the 1953 ORER, I was able to narrow down what number series these tanks below to, but I don't have too much information on them other than the series and their pounds capacity.

What I need to know is:

(1) Prototype info on these cars; and

(2) Good HO Scale models to represent these cars.

Here are the cars and when they were listed:

GATX 2369; AAR Class TM; 80,000 lbs.; 1800-2899 series; empty on 8/27/56; no consignee, headed to Lewes, DE.

GATX 7156; AAR Class TM; 80,000 lbs.; 7000-7999 series; empty on 8/27/56; no consignee, headed to Lewes, DE.

GATX 25319; AAR Class TM; 80,000 lbs.; 25276-25411 series; empty on 8/27/56; going to Seacoast Products in Lewes, DE.

GATX 64899; AAR Class TPI; 80,000 lbs.; 7000-7999 series; loaded with petroleum gas on 3/8/56; going to S.P. Gas Co. in Rehoboth, DE.

Regarding Lewes, DE: there was a large fish factory that probably had fish oil/meal as a by-product (Lewes - pronounced "Lewis" is located where the Delaware Bay begins and the Atlantic Ocean ends). I am guessing that's where the cars were headed. The only other place that could use tank cars was the U.S. Army base in Lewes - I doubt they would be receiving empty tanks (but I've been known to be wrong in the past).

Any and all help would be appreciated. This is just the tip of the iceberg - in the future I've got questions on ISX, SHPX, and UTLX tank cars, but I'll leave this conversation just to these four GATX cars.

Thanks in advance,

Joe Walder


Re: Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Tony,

        If only we could convince the manufacturers to add those ends to the parts spru !!
The worst they can do is sell 4 times the amount of kits, easily.

Fred Freitas




________________________________
From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, May 14, 2010 12:18:05 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers

 
Walt Cox wrote (about avoiding carving ladders off the Accurail ends):
Great idea, I could use about 8 such bodies.
Or maybe just provide plain ends as parts. That seems at least
as practical as running shots with "unfinished" dies.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Walt Cox wrote (about avoiding carving ladders off the Accurail ends):
Great idea, I could use about 8 such bodies.
Or maybe just provide plain ends as parts. That seems at least as practical as running shots with "unfinished" dies.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers

Tim O'Connor
 

What I am dreading is carving the ladders off of the ends.

Bill Welch

Bill, I think Stan R. may make correct resin ends for these
cars. I'd just cut off the Accurail ends and replace them. I
avoid carving at all costs :-)

Tim O'Connor


Re: Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers

Andrew Miller <aslmmiller@...>
 

I knew someone would be introducing a 40' plug door iced reefer soon, because I just finished a project to build 15 of them using the old Trains Miniature sides with I/M roofs and ends and an Accurail floor. For the FGEX-WFEX-BREX cars as well as the PFE R40-26 I used the I/M diagonal panel roof and improved dreadnought ends from the R40-25 they did some years ago for the Amarillo Museum. For the various models of SFRD cars I used the I/M SFRD ends and SFRD, rectangular or diagonal panel roofs and straight or fishbelly centersill Accurail floors depending on the SFRD model.

Now to my point. The same technique might be tried to improve the forthcomming Accurail cars. Instead of carving ladders off the ends, you might replace the ends with I/M ends!

regards,

Andy Miller

----- Original Message -----
From: Andy Carlson
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:15 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers



Bill mentions his dread concerning the ladder carving on the ends. Perhaps Dennis could do us STMFC'ers a favor, and hold off to last the cutting in the end ladders, and run some bodies with the "unfinished" ends, letting them be available to us who appreciate such generosity.

I remember years ago Terry Wegmann ran a few sets of his "Details West" R-40-23 dreadnaught end w/o ladder brackets. Boy, I wish I had grabbed a couple more of those...
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA

________________________________
From: lnbill <fgexbill@...>

What I am dreading is carving the ladders off of the ends.

Bill Welch

-


Re: Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers

Andy Carlson
 

Bill mentions his dread concerning the ladder carving on the ends. Perhaps Dennis could do us STMFC'ers a favor, and hold off to last the cutting in the end ladders, and run some bodies with the "unfinished" ends, letting them be available to us who appreciate such generosity.

I remember years ago Terry Wegmann ran a few sets of his "Details West" R-40-23 dreadnaught end w/o ladder brackets. Boy, I wish I had grabbed a couple more of those...
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




________________________________
From: lnbill <fgexbill@...>



What I am dreading is carving the ladders off of the ends.

Bill Welch

-


Re: PRR boxcar jargon

J.A. Phillips
 

Thanks fellers. Looks like you got it right, CF, but we still need to talk to you about what "AAR" stands for!

Muahahaha!

John Phillips
Seattle


Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers

Bill Welch
 

Not to pick too many nits, but technically speaking the hinged doors on reefers are "plug doors" are they not? I have come to prefer "sliding door" and "hinged door' in talking about reefer doors.

From the way Dennis describes the hinged door car version Accurail is doing (diagonal panel roof, improved Dreadnaught ends), these are cars built for FGE (500), WFE (250), BRE (200), and MNX (100) in 1949. I am planning to post a table showing all of the 40-foot steel cars owned by the FGE/WFE/BRE consortium. I have just noticed I did not describe the ends in the table, so I need to fix that. Any of you that have my handout from Naperville or Cocoa Beach on the steel cars has this table. There were variations on the sill configurations, should be an easy fix. The BRE and MNX versions had door handles at a 45 degree angle (or 135 degrees) rather than the usual 90 degrees, another easy fix.

What I am dreading is carving the ladders off of the ends.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "devansprr" <devans1@...> wrote:


Yes, plug door version also. Walthers got the info for the 2011 catalog, due out next October; we haven't put any info up because I didn't think Walthers was going to put it up this early. At this point, we are likely looking at a October release. The plug door car will be 8500 series SKU's, and will likely be out first.

The plug door car is specifically a WFEX car (don't have the numbers handy) but FGEX and BREX both had similar cars. spotting features include diagonal panel roof, improved Dreadnaught ends with the one "squished" rib, and plain lapped side sheets with single rivet rows.

The swing door car will have the same roof and ends; most likely double rivet rows (hat section posts).

As planned now, both cars will have acetal sill steps and brake rodding, like our gondola kit.

Now, I need to get back to work on them.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.
Dennis,

From what I can find, these cars started being built during WWII, and being in the WWII modeler minority (as opposed to all of the transition era modelers on this esteemed list), a WFEX with only "Great Northern" in the herald, and Ventilator-Refrigerator on the side would be greatly appreciated (swing door only). A good picture of such a lettering scheme is on the RPI site.

A small group of cars is listed under WFEX in the '43 ORER, an additional numbers are reserved for a new group of cars, but noted to be 5 inches taller inside and out than the first batch already built. This is the only ORER I have - don't know for sure if the subsequent cars were taller.

Keep up all the great work! Really appreciate your selling steam era freight car kits!

Dave Evans
(A late arriving SPF who knows not to use hyphens, but has actually encountered one or two official PRR documents with hyphens - don't tell anyone ;-)


Dashes in PRR Car Classes (was Re: 40-foot FGE steel reefers)

Benjamin Hom
 

Dave Evans wrote:
"A late arriving SPF who knows not to use hyphens, but has actually encountered one or two official PRR documents with hyphens - don't tell anyone ;-)"

Dave, since you're late to arrive, I reference you to my post on this
subject made on June 20, 2006 (Message #55370):

"In the case of the Pennsy, I don't dispute the fact that PRR
documentation regarding car classes in truck lists, internal
memorandums, etc., is inconsistent, but the bottom line, especially
for modelers and folks restoring 1:1 rolling stock, what is painted
on the side of the car is ultimately what we have to go by.

I stand by my assertion that the Pennsy was remarkably consistent,
and if anyone can turn up photographic documentation of cars in NK3,
NK4, or CK with dashes in the car classes other than the group of
Class X43C boxcars built by AC&F, you're welcome to do so.
(Photomanips don't count.) With a total fleet of over 250,000
freight cars, you would think more examples would be documented.

I'm also aware of some cars painted with dashes in the car classes
after the changeover from CK to SK1 schemes, but very few in SK2 and
virtually none in PK.

My central point: the bottom line for most of us is what's painted
on the side of the car. I'm amazed at the number of folks who will
obsess over color, but will accept inaccurate lettering. We've got
enough bad lettering and incorrect decals on the market, and the
last thing we need is to reinforce something that just isn't correct."

Since then, I still haven't turned up any other PRR cars in NK3, NK4,
or CK with dashes in car classes, and no one on this list have
produced any photo evidence to prove me wrong. (And photomanips
still don't count.)


Ben Hom


Re: Those pesky 40-foot FGE/WFE/BRE/NX steel reefers

WaltGCox@...
 

Great idea, I could use about 8 such bodies. Walt

In a message dated 5/13/2010 10:15:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
midcentury@... writes:

Bill mentions his dread concerning the ladder carving on the ends. Perhaps
Dennis could do us STMFC'ers a favor, and hold off to last the cutting in
the end ladders, and run some bodies with the "unfinished" ends, letting
them be available to us who appreciate such generosity.


Re: 40-foot FGE steel reefers

devansprr
 


Yes, plug door version also. Walthers got the info for the 2011 catalog, due out next October; we haven't put any info up because I didn't think Walthers was going to put it up this early. At this point, we are likely looking at a October release. The plug door car will be 8500 series SKU's, and will likely be out first.

The plug door car is specifically a WFEX car (don't have the numbers handy) but FGEX and BREX both had similar cars. spotting features include diagonal panel roof, improved Dreadnaught ends with the one "squished" rib, and plain lapped side sheets with single rivet rows.

The swing door car will have the same roof and ends; most likely double rivet rows (hat section posts).

As planned now, both cars will have acetal sill steps and brake rodding, like our gondola kit.

Now, I need to get back to work on them.

Dennis Storzek
Accurail, Inc.
Dennis,

From what I can find, these cars started being built during WWII, and being in the WWII modeler minority (as opposed to all of the transition era modelers on this esteemed list), a WFEX with only "Great Northern" in the herald, and Ventilator-Refrigerator on the side would be greatly appreciated (swing door only). A good picture of such a lettering scheme is on the RPI site.

A small group of cars is listed under WFEX in the '43 ORER, an additional numbers are reserved for a new group of cars, but noted to be 5 inches taller inside and out than the first batch already built. This is the only ORER I have - don't know for sure if the subsequent cars were taller.

Keep up all the great work! Really appreciate your selling steam era freight car kits!

Dave Evans
(A late arriving SPF who knows not to use hyphens, but has actually encountered one or two official PRR documents with hyphens - don't tell anyone ;-)


Re: Murder in the Private Car

kenneth broomfield
 

I had recoreded it on my DVR and played it in the background while I worked on models. I just basically looked up when they would mention something about trains. It was not that good of movie except towards the end. I would like to know how they made the chase scene. Not bad for being that old of special effects.

Kenny Broomfield

----- Original Message ----
From: WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, May 12, 2010 10:18:50 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Murder in the Private Car

Thanks  Al And Pat:

I'm glad that I was able to catch this film on TCM.  I didn't watch 
most of it but my wife called me for the steam sequences at the end. 
As an SP steam modeler all I can say
is "What a treat".  A real surprise was a shot of the bridge over the 
Sacramento River  which I have from Overland and is awaiting 
installation on my layout.

Thanks for the "Heads Up".

Bill Pardie

On May 12, 2010, at 4:42 PM, Al and Patricia Westerfield wrote:

Watched the film today. It's not very good - basically an "old dark 
house" on wheels. However, it was made in close cooperation with SP. 
The finale has lots of action as the private car, uncoupled from the 
train, rolls down hill over bridges and through freight yards. One 
interesting thing. As the car uncouples on the fly the film is 
flopped so that the forward car's road name is mirror writing. Looks 
like SP didn't want its name associated with such an action. 
Recommended. - Al Westerfield

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: PRR boxcar jargon

SUVCWORR@...
 

Without! There are no hyphens in PRR freight car classes.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: whstlpnk <whstlpnk@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, May 13, 2010 1:30 am
Subject: [STMFC] PRR boxcar jargon


Can any Pennsy fan state whether X31 and X32 should be expressed with or without
a hyphen?

RSVP
John Phillips
Seattle



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: PRR boxcar jargon

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

John,

          Without !  Why do I hear a fait echo of cussing in Cantonese??

Fred Freitas




________________________________
From: whstlpnk <whstlpnk@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, May 13, 2010 1:30:00 AM
Subject: [STMFC] PRR boxcar jargon

 
Can any Pennsy fan state whether X31 and X32 should be expressed with or without a hyphen?

RSVP
John Phillips
Seattle

104581 - 104600 of 194712