Date   

Re: PRR X-29's, NYC Lot 486 and then?

Richard Townsend
 

Nothing, I answer, as I have several of each, but they are not the prototype I'm looking for, which is the one in this photo of a Utah Coal Route GS gon: http://www.mindat.org/photo-254652.html


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 3:26 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR X-29's, NYC Lot 486 and then?






--- In STMFC@..., richtownsend@... wrote:

Sheesh. I can't believe anyone even has to ask this question. We (I) need Enterprise GS gons. C&S and several other roads.
What, might I ask, was wrong with the ones done already? Both Detail Associates and Red Caboose did both the composite and all steel Enterprise cars as used by UP and SP, RC even did the alternate chain door mechanisms (as opposed to the patented "link" mechanism). There's no good reason to invest in tooling if no one buys the models that are already produced.

Dennis


Re: IC 40' box car decal

 

Maybe Jerry Glow would be interested? He does some great looking accurate sets.
 
Rich Christie

--- On Fri, 5/28/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] IC 40' box car decal
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, May 28, 2010, 5:23 PM


 




Staffan, the Illinois Central (steam era) has really gotten the
short end of the stick decal-wise, even while Dan Kohlberg has
produced a boatload of beautiful IC/ICG decals for the post-STMFC
era. Even CDS, and Mark Vaughan, ignored the IC. I sent a copy of
a beautiful photo of IC 20223 (stenciled for automobile engine
loading and a "return empty to" stencil) to Intermountain in the
hope they would produce a model of the IC "1940" AAR box cars but
no luck there either. I agree with you about the shortcomings of
Champ HB-150 but that's just about all there is...

Tim O'Connor

At 5/28/2010 03:40 PM Friday, you wrote:
Where can I find lettering for an HO 40' IC box car like the 18629 in the photo on p. 22 of the RP Cyc 4? The Champ set no. HB-150 seems a bit oversized judging by the Champ Lettering Plan Book. Thanks in advance,

Staffan Ehnbom


Re: PRR X-29's, NYC Lot 486 and then?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 28, 2010, at 11:35 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:

I love these speculation fests... Gons can be a bit more of a
difficult sell - any eastern roads with Enterprise gons?
AFAIK, the only eastern road that had GS gondolas in significant
numbers was B&M, and they weren't of Enterprise design. Besides, we
already have the later Enterprise gons for SP and UP, though it would
be nice to have the earlier cars (as once modeled by Ulrich) as well.

I would also think that the following might be good if someone were
looking for projects:
- I second the notion of the GATC tank car
Under serious consideration.

- UTLX X-3 (as I doubt I will ever get enough of Martin's kits done)
Every manufacturer who has considered this has been scared off by the
fact that only UTL owned them and there are very few accurate P/L
schemes (actually, only one apart from some very odd-ball
exceptions). Many on this list would buy a bunch of these models,
but they would be of hardly any interest to the toy train collectors,
vesties, and perpetual beginners in the hobby who far outnumber us.

- Harriman Standard 40'10" SP/UP flat cars
One of the better manufacturers is thinking about this, though far
from being committed.

- 1921/22 and 1927/28 FGE/WFE reefers (as built, not the modified IM
car)
Not a chance. Not many of us model a date before the 1950s, by which
time all (or almost all) of the FGE/WFE cars had been rebuilt.

Other suggestions have included such unlikely prototypes as Rio
Grande 12 panel box cars with Duryea underframes, 46' Rio Grande and
WP gondolas, and CB&Q 1-1/2 door single sheathed auto cars. Hello?
What are you guys smoking? Raise your hand if you would like to
spend your own money on the development and tooling for such
projects. Gee, I don't see any hands raised. I wonder why? These
are classic examples of prototypes which might make sense for resin
kits but are economically absurd for RTR styrene.

In my opinion, what us steam and transition era modelers need most
right now are single sheathed 40' box cars. Look at any freight yard
or freight train photo from the '40s and '50s, even the late '50s,
and they were all over the place; yet accurate, correctly painted and
lettered models are almost non-existent except in resin. The problem
is that most of the prototype cars were built during the 1920s when
there was scarcely any standardization of design, so there are none
that could be correctly modeled for more than one or two RRs. There
were, however, a few examples that were built in such large numbers
for one railroad that they're worth considering. For example, MILW
had a huge fleet of essentially identical SS boxcars built in the
early '20s that went everywhere in interchange. And then there were
a vast number of SP/T&NO B-50-13s and B-50-14s which were essentially
alike except for roofs and some other minor details, and some of
those got rebuilt in later years with Dreadnaught ends replacing
their original SS ends. Santa Fe got thousands of modified ARA SS
box cars in the late 1920s, many (though not all) of which got
distinctive extended height roofs during World War two and lasted in
that form way into the 1960s. Other RRs like the CB&Q and Rock
Island had a lot of SS box cars, as well, but their design kept
changing so that there weren't any dominant prototypes.

The number of steam era prototype freight cars for which injection
molded styrene models might sell well enough to make a modest profit
has diminished to almost none. Demographics are against us; to be
blunt, many of us who model the steam era are geezers whose numbers
dwindle significantly every year. The majority of modelers of every
age tend to model what they remember from their childhood and
adolescence, so there's an inevitable shift in emphasis away from the
steam era toward more recent periods of railroad history. It's no
accident that manufacturers like Walthers have largely shifted focus
to modeling freight cars of the 1960s and later, where there are many
more possibilities for multiple paint and lettering schemes, not to
mention a younger clientele.

None of this is any reason for crying the blues; for us steam era
modelers, this truly is the golden age in terms of what's available.
But much of it is only available in resin, and that's not going to
change appreciably. In fact, many of the resin models are going to
go away as suppliers like Al and Patricia Westerfield and Martin and
Patricia Lofton finally take their belated and richly earned retirement.

Speculation fests, to use Bruce's aptly chosen description, may be
harmless, but they're also largely a waste of time. Instead of
sitting around making pie-in-the-sky lists, maybe we'd be better off
going to the workbench and building some of the kits we already have.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: PRR X-29's, NYC Lot 486 and then?

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., richtownsend@... wrote:

Sheesh. I can't believe anyone even has to ask this question. We (I) need Enterprise GS gons. C&S and several other roads.
What, might I ask, was wrong with the ones done already? Both Detail Associates and Red Caboose did both the composite and all steel Enterprise cars as used by UP and SP, RC even did the alternate chain door mechanisms (as opposed to the patented "link" mechanism). There's no good reason to invest in tooling if no one buys the models that are already produced.

Dennis


Re: IC 40' box car decal

Tim O'Connor
 

Staffan, the Illinois Central (steam era) has really gotten the
short end of the stick decal-wise, even while Dan Kohlberg has
produced a boatload of beautiful IC/ICG decals for the post-STMFC
era. Even CDS, and Mark Vaughan, ignored the IC. I sent a copy of
a beautiful photo of IC 20223 (stenciled for automobile engine
loading and a "return empty to" stencil) to Intermountain in the
hope they would produce a model of the IC "1940" AAR box cars but
no luck there either. I agree with you about the shortcomings of
Champ HB-150 but that's just about all there is...

Tim O'Connor

At 5/28/2010 03:40 PM Friday, you wrote:
Where can I find lettering for an HO 40' IC box car like the 18629 in the photo on p. 22 of the RP Cyc 4? The Champ set no. HB-150 seems a bit oversized judging by the Champ Lettering Plan Book. Thanks in advance,

Staffan Ehnbom


Re: IC 40' box car decal

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Steffan,

            Check the messages section of the group site. IIRC, a list member
was advertising IC decals within the past 2 weeks.

Fred Freitas




________________________________
From: frtcar <staffan.ehnbom@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 3:40:45 PM
Subject: [STMFC] IC 40' box car decal

 
Where can I find lettering for an HO 40' IC box car like the 18629 in the photo on p. 22 of the RP Cyc 4? The Champ set no. HB-150 seems a bit oversized judging by the Champ Lettering Plan Book. Thanks in advance,

Staffan Ehnbom




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: How many C&MI 70-ton gons

proto48er
 

Al -

See post #81519 on this list. That covers all of them built up to 1948 (there were some later-built cars I have no info on).

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., "al.kresse" <water.kresse@...> wrote:

How many 1927 blt 70-ton "fish-belly" gondola coal cars did the C&MI purchase for their mine to Illinois River barge loading facility runs? Series split and builders info . . . and how long did they use them?


Re: Wish List - May 2010 release

Charlie Vlk
 

Bill-
Now that I think of it, for some reason, it seems like a good idea to me too!!! In N Scale even!!!
Charlie Vlk


How many C&MI 70-ton gons

al.kresse <water.kresse@...>
 

How many 1927 blt 70-ton "fish-belly" gondola coal cars did the C&MI purchase for their mine to Illinois River barge loading facility runs? Series split and builders info . . . and how long did they use them?


IC 40' box car decal

frtcar <staffan.ehnbom@...>
 

Where can I find lettering for an HO 40' IC box car like the 18629 in the photo on p. 22 of the RP Cyc 4? The Champ set no. HB-150 seems a bit oversized judging by the Champ Lettering Plan Book. Thanks in advance,

Staffan Ehnbom


Re: Wish List - May 2010 release

Clark Propst
 

I'm with Gene.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

While there are a box car and a gondola I'd like to see. Since they were apparently unique to the M&StL I figure there is no chance. On the other hand GATX and/or UTLX tank cars would be nice. These could, I believe, be used rather widely both in terms of time period and geographic location.

Gene Green


Re: Wish List - May 2010 release

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

While there are a box car and a gondola I'd like to see. Since they were apparently unique to the M&StL I figure there is no chance. On the other hand GATX and/or UTLX tank cars would be nice. These could, I believe, be used rather widely both in terms of time period and geographic location.

Gene Green


Re: Wish List - May 2010 release

William Keene <wakeene@...>
 

Hello Group,

OK. Yes. I will take one. Now all we need to do is find someone else to pick up the other 14,999.

Cheers,
Bill Keene
Irvine, CA


On May 28, 2010, at 12:17 PM, richtownsend@... wrote:

Hey! I just had a great idea, came to me seemingly out of nowhere! How about a CB&Q 50ft 1-1/2 door single sheathed box car?

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: cvlk <cvlk@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 12:12 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Wish List - May 2010 release

I don't know about "large quantity", but it seems to me that a 50 FT 1 1/2 Door Single Sheathed box car is missing from ALL the popular scales. As far as I can recall, the only production model was from Con-Cor in N Scale years ago. I think the type was more common than the modeled 50 FT Double Door that was available (Walthers and MDC/Athearn in HO and Walthers in N). Of course, determining whose car to do (Burlington) is a problem (CB&Q) because most (Q) differ in truss pattern, roof, ends, door location and other details (Burlington Route).
Charlie Vlk

What other large quantity signature item freight cars could we ask for in built up form for the transition era? Maybe from a western road like the Santa Fe?







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Wish List - May 2010 release

Richard Townsend
 

Hey! I just had a great idea, came to me seemingly out of nowhere! How about a CB&Q 50ft 1-1/2 door single sheathed box car?


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: cvlk <cvlk@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 12:12 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Wish List - May 2010 release




I don't know about "large quantity", but it seems to me that a 50 FT 1 1/2 Door Single Sheathed box car is missing from ALL the popular scales. As far as I can recall, the only production model was from Con-Cor in N Scale years ago. I think the type was more common than the modeled 50 FT Double Door that was available (Walthers and MDC/Athearn in HO and Walthers in N). Of course, determining whose car to do (Burlington) is a problem (CB&Q) because most (Q) differ in truss pattern, roof, ends, door location and other details (Burlington Route).
Charlie Vlk

What other large quantity signature item freight cars could we ask for in built up form for the transition era? Maybe from a western road like the Santa Fe?









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Wish List - May 2010 release

Charlie Vlk
 

I don't know about "large quantity", but it seems to me that a 50 FT 1 1/2 Door Single Sheathed box car is missing from ALL the popular scales. As far as I can recall, the only production model was from Con-Cor in N Scale years ago. I think the type was more common than the modeled 50 FT Double Door that was available (Walthers and MDC/Athearn in HO and Walthers in N). Of course, determining whose car to do (Burlington) is a problem (CB&Q) because most (Q) differ in truss pattern, roof, ends, door location and other details (Burlington Route).
Charlie Vlk



What other large quantity signature item freight cars could we ask for in built up form for the transition era? Maybe from a western road like the Santa Fe?


Wish List.... May 2010 release

Charlie Vlk
 

Not to rub it in, but we have TWO nice models of Enterprise steel GS gons in N Scale.... the Micro-Trains and a slightly longer Trainworx version.
Doesn't begin to balance off all the stuff that Walthers keeps making in HO but not N, but oh well......
Charlie Vlk


Re: PRR X-29's, NYC Lot 486 and then?

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I can't speak for "Eastern" roads, but can vouch for CN having quite a few Enterprise GS gons (a thousand or more?) in 36', 40', and 48' versions.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:

On May 28, 2010, at 1:09 PM, richtownsend@... wrote:

Sheesh. I can't believe anyone even has to ask this question. We
(I) need Enterprise GS gons. C&S and several other roads.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
What do you mean "we" kemosabe? <G>

I love these speculation fests... Gons can be a bit more of a
difficult sell - any eastern roads with Enterprise gons?

I would also think that the following might be good if someone were
looking for projects:
- I second the notion of the GATC tank car
- UTLX X-3 (as I doubt I will ever get enough of Martin's kits done)
- Harriman Standard 40'10" SP/UP flat cars
- 1921/22 and 1927/28 FGE/WFE reefers (as built, not the modified IM
car)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: PRR X-29's, NYC Lot 486 and then?

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Bruce and friends,

As long as were beating dead horses, how about the 8K and 10K AC&F type
7 (?) high walkway tank cars. I especially want a couple of the the 10K
size. They are WP signature cars.

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

Bruce Smith wrote:

On May 28, 2010, at 1:09 PM, richtownsend@... wrote:


Sheesh. I can't believe anyone even has to ask this question. We
(I) need Enterprise GS gons. C&S and several other roads.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
What do you mean "we" kemosabe? <G>

I love these speculation fests... Gons can be a bit more of a
difficult sell - any eastern roads with Enterprise gons?

I would also think that the following might be good if someone were
looking for projects:
- I second the notion of the GATC tank car
- UTLX X-3 (as I doubt I will ever get enough of Martin's kits done)
- Harriman Standard 40'10" SP/UP flat cars
- 1921/22 and 1927/28 FGE/WFE reefers (as built, not the modified IM
car)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."


Re: PRR X-29's, NYC Lot 486 and then?

Bruce Smith
 

On May 28, 2010, at 1:09 PM, richtownsend@... wrote:

Sheesh. I can't believe anyone even has to ask this question. We (I) need Enterprise GS gons. C&S and several other roads.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon
What do you mean "we" kemosabe? <G>

I love these speculation fests... Gons can be a bit more of a difficult sell - any eastern roads with Enterprise gons?

I would also think that the following might be good if someone were looking for projects:
- I second the notion of the GATC tank car
- UTLX X-3 (as I doubt I will ever get enough of Martin's kits done)
- Harriman Standard 40'10" SP/UP flat cars
- 1921/22 and 1927/28 FGE/WFE reefers (as built, not the modified IM car)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: PRR X-29's, NYC Lot 486 and then?

Richard Townsend
 

Sheesh. I can't believe anyone even has to ask this question. We (I) need Enterprise GS gons. C&S and several other roads.





Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

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