Date   

Re: Wish List - May 2010 release

Bill Welch
 

Do you mean one like this done by Speedwitch

http://speedwitch.com/Models/k117.htm

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., richtownsend@... wrote:

Hey! I just had a great idea, came to me seemingly out of nowhere! How about a CB&Q 50ft 1-1/2 door single sheathed box car?


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon



-----Original Message-----
From: cvlk <cvlk@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 12:12 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Wish List - May 2010 release




I don't know about "large quantity", but it seems to me that a 50 FT 1 1/2 Door Single Sheathed box car is missing from ALL the popular scales. As far as I can recall, the only production model was from Con-Cor in N Scale years ago. I think the type was more common than the modeled 50 FT Double Door that was available (Walthers and MDC/Athearn in HO and Walthers in N). Of course, determining whose car to do (Burlington) is a problem (CB&Q) because most (Q) differ in truss pattern, roof, ends, door location and other details (Burlington Route).
Charlie Vlk

What other large quantity signature item freight cars could we ask for in built up form for the transition era? Maybe from a western road like the Santa Fe?

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Wish List.... May 2010 release

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Armand--

All TH&B boxcars from the steel-frame "Fowlers" of the 'teens' to the takeover by CP Rail in the 1970's have been produced in HO. Westerfield makes the 36' "Fowler" and a kit for the USRA double-sheathed boxcars that TH&B got from the NYC in the 1930's. Branchline and Intermountain made a 40', 10'-6" ih. steel boxcar decorated for TH&B.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "Armand Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

Yes Mike, I am wide awake. After two days of record breaking heat.my basement offered a welcome sanctuary.Considering regional biases your mention of hoppers made me sit up and take notice.The Anthracite roads have not been given due attention along with the Virginian,Western Maryland B&O. and L&N . Rhetorically speaking,how many roads other than the Pennsy rostered quad hoppers?Personally I would like to see a Magor side dump and a Hart Ballast car.and boxcars for the B&A and TH&B.. While I have been messing with this response I missed a breathtaking sunset over Lake Champlain.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wish List.... May 2010 release



I'm always a bit amused to read wish lists for frt cars. I'll also freely
admit that I no nothing about scales other than HO [ some will add HO as
well ].

I suppose the criteria for asking a manufacturer to expend the loot to
generate tooling for a plastic car probably should be dependent upon the
number of cars that might reasonably be sold. There have been, over the
years, various scenarios that might be used to project such sales. You
know...the car needs to have been owned by ATSF, SP, UP, B&O, NYC, Pennsy,
C&O, Central Vermont [ just checking to see if Armand Premo is awake ],
Southern, GN, NP, ACL and SAL. Actually, a car owned by UP and 5 others
would probably be acceptable <G>. However, is that really a good scenario? I
mean, since the STMFC has shown time and again that box cars went
everywhere, is there any real reason for the other 5...if we're talking box
cars? Well...paraphrasing that infamous statement made by a former member of
the SP 4449 crew to me at the end of Railfair 81 [ Hmmm. Denny (
Anspach )...isn't it about time for another? Denny? You there? Haven't heard
from you for awhile ] when I asked if the SP dispatcher would tell us when
4449 was scheduled to leave Sacramento..."Probably Not", I'll say, Probably.
Why? Simple. The STMFC still only gets to about 1650 modelers. Nevertheless,
it is difficult to find a car that has not been made that would work for
several of the above RR's [ a 50 ft auto car like MDC did sounds good ].
So...abandoning that criteria and speaking of box/auto cars, obviously 3 or
4 come to mind. First, the UP A-50-14 and A-50-15 with and without end
doors. Second, UP A-50-19. Trix did the A-50-16...of course calling it a 19.
We can add the UP B-50-19 and/or B-50-21. And, while I'm feeling
generous...how about an ATSF FE-24? I mean, the thing was painted in green
for express service and Mineral Brown for frt service. They could sell 2 to
a real Santa Fe guy.

As usual...when this topic comes up, I find myself thinking [ no doubt in
error ] that the number of prototype cars should have significance. And...as
usual...presto! The AAR Alternate standard 50 ton hopper...of which C&O had
about 20,000. I mean...what's the difference between 10,000 and 80,000 when
it comes to frt cars? It's sorta like...can you tell the difference between
15° and 25°? I can't. In fact...below freezing [ 53°? ], I can't tell
anything. But, regardless of the numbers...we'll likely have another
manufacturer produce yet another AAR standfard 50 ton hopper.
And...yes...hoppers of all kinds wandered all over the northeast and
midwest. Uh oh...a certain dignified, well spoken and extremely
knowledgeable frt car historian will no doubt imquire why I think C&O
hoppers appeared in Nevada [ midwest ] so...I should say in the region
Illinois and east north of Alabama/Jawga/South Carolina....including New
York but perhaps not Vermontanada...wherever that is. Armand? So...if one
models the C&EI, C&IM, NKP, NC&STL, L&N, Southern, PRR, NYC, B&O, Erie, D&H,
RF&P, Mil, Clinchfield, Monon, DT&I, RDG, New Haven, N&W [ yes, even N&W ],
IC, W&LE, LV, Wabash, B&LE, P&LE, P&WV [ I know such a modeler ], WM, DL&W,
Virginian, and, of course...South Buffalo....you need C&O hoppers.

So...given that...I suppose we'll finally get an AAR Alternate Standard 50
ton hopper...eh? Well...in the words of that infamous SP
dispatcher...Probably Not.

Mike Brock






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Northern Pacific, 1883

barryb2again <Barrybennetttoo@...>
 

In 1883 Chief Sitting Bull was invited as guest of honour to address a celebration of the completion of the Northern Pacific Railway.

Speaking in Sioux through a translator, his speech began: "I hate all white people. You are thieves and liars". The interpreter, taken by surprise, hastily improvised a string of flowery complements in English, with the result that the speech greeted with rapturous applause, much to Sitting Bull's amusement.

OT granted, but RR orientated and definitely steam era, and I, for one, find it very funny.

Barry Bennett
Coventry, England.


Arrowhead Water Steel Tank Cars in California

railroads@...
 

I would like to afind more photos of these cars run by Pacific Electric.

This is the ones that had 'Arrohead Water' painted along the sides.

Charlie


Re: Wish List.... May 2010 release

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

If I was a manufacturer looking to tool a new steam era RTR freight car, I would do the X31 in single and double door versions. There are multiple roadnames and schemes that could be done for cars that would be of appeal for modelers of the 30s through the early 70s. I know Bowser does them, but I would prefer a car with separate ladders, etc.

I think the B&O wagontop would fit nicely into the "neat" category. There are a lot of lettering variations of only one roadname, but these cars also have appeal for steam, transition, and diesel era modelers.

It would be nice to have GATC Type 30 and UTL X-3 tank cars in plastic. Hopefully we will see one or the other.

As a final note, does anyone know if Martin is going to send out a "Sun" this year, or will we all just be pleasantly surprised when we walk in the sales room? I certainly don't "need" any more resin kits, but I am sure that I will still make a contribution to the Loftons' retirement!

Sincerely,
Bob Heninger
Iowa City, IA


Re: Wish List.... May 2010 release

David Sieber
 

Mike,
Re AAR Alternate Standard 50 ton offset side hoppers, please don't forget the Santa Fe and the Northern Pacific! It's not just easterners modeling the C&O, etc., that have been praying for someone finally to produce the Alternate Standard 50 ton hopper. I'd put that on a previous wish list, but neglected to mention it this time around, since the initial query was for "signature cars," and sooo many roads owned that very common hopper. And yep, as discussed on this list, yet another manufacturer (Accurail) has announced yet another AAR Standard 50 ton hopper, but still no Alternate Standard. You'd think these firms have no one that reads RPCycs.
As to documented uncommon hopper sightings, there's always that Oct 48 photo of DT&I 1437 (USRA 2-bay hopper I believe) being switched by SP 1293 at Tracy CA.
V/R, Dave Sieber, Reno NV (which is NOT in the "midwest")

--- In STMFC@..., "Mike Brock" <brockm@...> wrote:

As usual...when this topic comes up, I find myself thinking ... that the number of prototype cars should have significance. And...as usual...presto! The AAR Alternate standard 50 ton hopper...of which C&O had about 20,000. I mean...what's the difference between 10,000 and 80,000 when it comes to frt cars? But, regardless of the numbers...we'll likely have another manufacturer produce yet another AAR standard 50 ton hopper.
And...yes...hoppers of all kinds wandered all over the northeast and midwest. Uh oh...a certain dignified, well spoken and extremely knowledgeable frt car historian will no doubt imquire why I think C&O hoppers appeared in Nevada [midwest] so...I should say in the region Illinois and east north of Alabama/Jawga/South Carolina... including New York ... So...if one models the C&EI, C&IM, NKP, NC&STL, L&N, Southern, PRR, NYC, B&O, Erie, D&H, RF&P, Mil, Clinchfield, Monon, DT&I, RDG, New Haven, N&W, IC, W&LE, LV, Wabash, B&LE, P&LE, P&WV, WM, DL&W, Virginian, and, of course...South Buffalo....you need C&O hoppers.
So...given that...I suppose we'll finally get an AAR Alternate Standard 50 ton hopper...eh? Well...in the words of that infamous SP dispatcher...Probably Not.


Re: Wish List.... May 2010 release

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tony Thompson writes that I wrote:

There have been, over the years, various scenarios that might be
used to project such sales. You know...the car needs to have been
owned by ATSF, SP, UP, B&O, NYC, Pennsy . . .
I think when we make these statements we are entirely
misunderstanding the market. Modelers buy "neat stuff" above all else,..."
Actually...I quite agree. A really well done model...which has some esthetic appeal, even unique...will likely be a good seller. For example...in the locomotive world...and still within our time period...if I were going to invest in a new locomotive...I would give serious consideration to two rather unexpected choices. Jawn Henry and the Big 3 unit UP gas turbines. I would expect to sell perhaps 5 to STMFC members but I'd sell a bunch to others. And, consider. BLI is apparently going through with a 4-12-2. How many people are modeling UP where they ran? 9? MTH already has one on the market and they were available in brass. No matter. It will attract because of its "neatness"...or uniqueness.

There are no sure things in this hobby, of course, but...hmmm...I might have to acquire one of them big ol' turbines for my display case. Don't tell anyone, but IF someone produced one I'd put it next to my OMI DD40AX in the case.

But back to wishin' and a hopin'...why not a double door 40 ft auto car?

Mike Brock


Re: Wish List.... May 2010 release

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
You would never make it in N Scale. N Scalers have learned to coexist with Micro-Trains Collectors as we realize that their Smokey the Bear and Republic of Guam cars help finance new carbody types.... and besides, it is fun to see a Collector faint when you show up with a rare car that has been weathered!!!!
Well, you choose your fun, Charlie, and I'll choose mine. N scale is hardly intrinsically less (or more) prototypical than other scales, though of course they got a big jump on everyone else in learning to live with RTR equipment. I am well aware that foobies can easily spell the difference between viable models and otherwise, scarcely a more prevalent point in N than in other scales.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wish List.... May 2010 release

Charlie Vlk
 

Tony-
Yes, the Trainworx car is nominally 46 feet inside and the example I have (D&RGW) has that on the stenciling. They are fine models with etched ladders and stirrups. The MicroTrains car is nice as well and is of a 40 foot car. There are so many choices that one can pick and choose based on how accurate a model has to be. This can be a sliding scale, different for each roadname and prototype... and the purchase may be a placeholder until something better comes along. I try to buy the accurate release from a manufacturer and ignore the foobies in the theory that a product I don't buy because it is inaccurate doesn't offend me unless the base model has 1) major error in the tooling for its prototype or 2) totally screwed up paint job for the roadname that the carbody is accurate for.
You would never make it in N Scale. N Scalers have learned to coexist with Micro-Trains Collectors as we realize that their Smokey the Bear and Republic of Guam cars help finance new carbody types.... and besides, it is fun to see a Collector faint when you show up with a rare car that has been weathered!!!!

Charlie Vlk

Trainworx's car s apparently 46 feet (can you confirm,
Charlie?), though they freely letter it for several roads' 40-ft.
cars. Sigh.


Re: PRR X-29's, NYC Lot 486 and then?

Charlie Vlk
 

Richard-

I can't argue with you on the absurdity of tooling cars in plastic that can only be used for one railroad and a limited number of paint jobs.....

But when you get right down to it, that is where we are at in the Hobby and Marketplace right now. All the low-hanging fruit has been picked.
And when you really get into the nitty-gritty, even some of the "common" cars vary by road, lot, etc... when it comes to the details. Not very conducive to a medium that would like to see Athearn Blue Box tooling usage. It is bad enough that people won't buy multiples of the same SKU anymore and want multiple roadnumbers and paint schemes for each road..... production and supply become very difficult with small quantities of a large variety of different items.

I think what is going to have to happen is what has happened.... instead of designing a kinda-like sorta generic model as things were done in the 1950s, somebody is going to look at what is missing from the market and pick a prototype that moves towards filling a gap. They'll tool an accurate car, do as many dead accurate or really, really close paint jobs on it to make the faithful happy, and then do sorta close to foobie paint jobs on the cars to help pay off the tooling and hopefully make a buck or two.

I agree with you regarding the single sheathed 40 FT box cars..... the War Emergency car was a good step in that direction, but as you pointed out, every railroad seemed to have to reinvent the wheel on them. Same is true for the 50 FT 1 1/2 door cars. But it would be nice to be able to buy a low, sawtooth Soo Line 40FT SS car to contrast in height and length in a train next to with a CB&Q 50 FT 1 1/2 Door.

Hopefully manufacturers will pick a car that looks different enough from what is already on the market and do a good job of making a model. A well-executed accurate model will sell, even if it isn't of a prototype that we'd prefer this time.

Yes, we will lose some of our specialty manufacturers who were able to supply prototypes that would have been impossible to hope for in production models when they built their businesses. But the bar has been raised for what we can hope to see in plastic and technology has changed what is possible for specialty manufacturers to do and new ones may come in to continue their missions. This may be the Golden Age of Model Railroading (Steam Era Freight Cars) but I don't think that we've seen the peak yet. Nor am I equally sure that as time marches on there will be radically fewer STMFC modelers...... people get interested in Civil War reenacting, as an example, and I don't think too many of them do so because that's what they remember from their childhood. While with each tick of the clock we get a wider range of possible prototypes, It is just a more interesting era to model!!!!

Charlie Vlk


Fw: Wish List.... May 2010 release

Armand Premo
 

----- Original Message -----
From: Armand Premo
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wish List.... May 2010 release



Yes Mike, I am wide awake. After two days of record breaking heat.my basement offered a welcome sanctuary.Considering regional biases your mention of hoppers made me sit up and take notice.The Anthracite roads have not been given due attention along with the Virginian,Western Maryland B&O. and L&N . Rhetorically speaking,how many roads other than the Pennsy rostered quad hoppers?Personally I would like to see a Magor side dump and a Hart Ballast car.and boxcars for the B&A and TH&B.. While I have been messing with this response I missed a breathtaking sunset over Lake Champlain.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wish List.... May 2010 release

I'm always a bit amused to read wish lists for frt cars. I'll also freely
admit that I no nothing about scales other than HO [ some will add HO as
well ].

I suppose the criteria for asking a manufacturer to expend the loot to
generate tooling for a plastic car probably should be dependent upon the
number of cars that might reasonably be sold. There have been, over the
years, various scenarios that might be used to project such sales. You
know...the car needs to have been owned by ATSF, SP, UP, B&O, NYC, Pennsy,
C&O, Central Vermont [ just checking to see if Armand Premo is awake ],
Southern, GN, NP, ACL and SAL. Actually, a car owned by UP and 5 others
would probably be acceptable <G>. However, is that really a good scenario? I
mean, since the STMFC has shown time and again that box cars went
everywhere, is there any real reason for the other 5...if we're talking box
cars? Well...paraphrasing that infamous statement made by a former member of
the SP 4449 crew to me at the end of Railfair 81 [ Hmmm. Denny (
Anspach )...isn't it about time for another? Denny? You there? Haven't heard
from you for awhile ] when I asked if the SP dispatcher would tell us when
4449 was scheduled to leave Sacramento..."Probably Not", I'll say, Probably.
Why? Simple. The STMFC still only gets to about 1650 modelers. Nevertheless,
it is difficult to find a car that has not been made that would work for
several of the above RR's [ a 50 ft auto car like MDC did sounds good ].
So...abandoning that criteria and speaking of box/auto cars, obviously 3 or
4 come to mind. First, the UP A-50-14 and A-50-15 with and without end
doors. Second, UP A-50-19. Trix did the A-50-16...of course calling it a 19.
We can add the UP B-50-19 and/or B-50-21. And, while I'm feeling
generous...how about an ATSF FE-24? I mean, the thing was painted in green
for express service and Mineral Brown for frt service. They could sell 2 to
a real Santa Fe guy.

As usual...when this topic comes up, I find myself thinking [ no doubt in
error ] that the number of prototype cars should have significance. And...as
usual...presto! The AAR Alternate standard 50 ton hopper...of which C&O had
about 20,000. I mean...what's the difference between 10,000 and 80,000 when
it comes to frt cars? It's sorta like...can you tell the difference between
15° and 25°? I can't. In fact...below freezing [ 53°? ], I can't tell
anything. But, regardless of the numbers...we'll likely have another
manufacturer produce yet another AAR standfard 50 ton hopper.
And...yes...hoppers of all kinds wandered all over the northeast and
midwest. Uh oh...a certain dignified, well spoken and extremely
knowledgeable frt car historian will no doubt imquire why I think C&O
hoppers appeared in Nevada [ midwest ] so...I should say in the region
Illinois and east north of Alabama/Jawga/South Carolina....including New
York but perhaps not Vermontanada...wherever that is. Armand? So...if one
models the C&EI, C&IM, NKP, NC&STL, L&N, Southern, PRR, NYC, B&O, Erie, D&H,
RF&P, Mil, Clinchfield, Monon, DT&I, RDG, New Haven, N&W [ yes, even N&W ],
IC, W&LE, LV, Wabash, B&LE, P&LE, P&WV [ I know such a modeler ], WM, DL&W,
Virginian, and, of course...South Buffalo....you need C&O hoppers.

So...given that...I suppose we'll finally get an AAR Alternate Standard 50
ton hopper...eh? Well...in the words of that infamous SP
dispatcher...Probably Not.

Mike Brock

----------------------------------------------------------

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Re: Wish List.... May 2010 release

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:
I suppose the criteria for asking a manufacturer to expend the loot to generate tooling for a plastic car probably should be dependent upon the number of cars that might reasonably be sold.
Very sound business sense, sir.

There have been, over the years, various scenarios that might be used to project such sales. You know...the car needs to have been owned by ATSF, SP, UP, B&O, NYC, Pennsy . . .
I think when we make these statements we are entirely misunderstanding the market. Modelers buy "neat stuff" above all else, even above their own favorite road. There have been some real oddball things manufactured which sold like hot cakes. So for us on the "excessively serious" end of the spectrum, what we need to do is figure out "neat stuff" which ALSO meets our needs. IF a big OR popular railroad owned it, fine, but . . . neatness, that's the thing.
Suggestions?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wish List.... May 2010 release

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Armand,

               I second all of those you mentioned; plus a plug for the
Alternate twin off set side hopper.

Fred Freitas
kitbashing at the other end of VT




________________________________
From: Armand Premo <armprem2@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 8:48:01 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wish List.... May 2010 release

 
Yes Mike, I am wide awake. After two days of record breaking heat.my basement offered a welcome sanctuary.Considering regional biases your mention of hoppers made me sit up and take notice.The Anthracite roads have not been given due attention along with the Virginian,Western Maryland B&O. and L&N . Rhetorically speaking,how many roads other than the Pennsy rostered quad hoppers?Personally I would like to see a Magor side dump and a Hart Ballast car.and boxcars for the B&A and TH&B.. While I have been messing with this response I missed a breathtaking sunset over Lake Champlain.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wish List.... May 2010 release

I'm always a bit amused to read wish lists for frt cars. I'll also freely
admit that I no nothing about scales other than HO [ some will add HO as
well ].

I suppose the criteria for asking a manufacturer to expend the loot to
generate tooling for a plastic car probably should be dependent upon the
number of cars that might reasonably be sold. There have been, over the
years, various scenarios that might be used to project such sales. You
know...the car needs to have been owned by ATSF, SP, UP, B&O, NYC, Pennsy,
C&O, Central Vermont [ just checking to see if Armand Premo is awake ],
Southern, GN, NP, ACL and SAL. Actually, a car owned by UP and 5 others
would probably be acceptable <G>. However, is that really a good scenario? I
mean, since the STMFC has shown time and again that box cars went
everywhere, is there any real reason for the other 5...if we're talking box
cars? Well...paraphrasing that infamous statement made by a former member of
the SP 4449 crew to me at the end of Railfair 81 [ Hmmm. Denny (
Anspach )...isn't it about time for another? Denny? You there? Haven't heard
from you for awhile ] when I asked if the SP dispatcher would tell us when
4449 was scheduled to leave Sacramento..."Probably Not", I'll say, Probably.
Why? Simple. The STMFC still only gets to about 1650 modelers. Nevertheless,
it is difficult to find a car that has not been made that would work for
several of the above RR's [ a 50 ft auto car like MDC did sounds good ].
So...abandoning that criteria and speaking of box/auto cars, obviously 3 or
4 come to mind. First, the UP A-50-14 and A-50-15 with and without end
doors. Second, UP A-50-19. Trix did the A-50-16...of course calling it a 19.
We can add the UP B-50-19 and/or B-50-21. And, while I'm feeling
generous...how about an ATSF FE-24? I mean, the thing was painted in green
for express service and Mineral Brown for frt service. They could sell 2 to
a real Santa Fe guy.

As usual...when this topic comes up, I find myself thinking [ no doubt in
error ] that the number of prototype cars should have significance. And...as
usual...presto! The AAR Alternate standard 50 ton hopper...of which C&O had
about 20,000. I mean...what's the difference between 10,000 and 80,000 when
it comes to frt cars? It's sorta like...can you tell the difference between
15° and 25°? I can't. In fact...below freezing [ 53°? ], I can't tell
anything. But, regardless of the numbers...we'll likely have another
manufacturer produce yet another AAR standfard 50 ton hopper.
And...yes...hoppers of all kinds wandered all over the northeast and
midwest. Uh oh...a certain dignified, well spoken and extremely
knowledgeable frt car historian will no doubt imquire why I think C&O
hoppers appeared in Nevada [ midwest ] so...I should say in the region
Illinois and east north of Alabama/Jawga/South Carolina....including New
York but perhaps not Vermontanada...wherever that is. Armand? So...if one
models the C&EI, C&IM, NKP, NC&STL, L&N, Southern, PRR, NYC, B&O, Erie, D&H,
RF&P, Mil, Clinchfield, Monon, DT&I, RDG, New Haven, N&W [ yes, even N&W ],
IC, W&LE, LV, Wabash, B&LE, P&LE, P&WV [ I know such a modeler ], WM, DL&W,
Virginian, and, of course...South Buffalo....you need C&O hoppers.

So...given that...I suppose we'll finally get an AAR Alternate Standard 50
ton hopper...eh? Well...in the words of that infamous SP
dispatcher...Probably Not.

Mike Brock

----------------------------------------------------------

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.437 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2901 - Release Date: 05/28/10 06:25:00






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Wish List.... May 2010 release

Armand Premo
 

Yes Mike, I am wide awake. After two days of record breaking heat.my basement offered a welcome sanctuary.Considering regional biases your mention of hoppers made me sit up and take notice.The Anthracite roads have not been given due attention along with the Virginian,Western Maryland B&O. and L&N . Rhetorically speaking,how many roads other than the Pennsy rostered quad hoppers?Personally I would like to see a Magor side dump and a Hart Ballast car.and boxcars for the B&A and TH&B.. While I have been messing with this response I missed a breathtaking sunset over Lake Champlain.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Brock
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 6:58 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Wish List.... May 2010 release



I'm always a bit amused to read wish lists for frt cars. I'll also freely
admit that I no nothing about scales other than HO [ some will add HO as
well ].

I suppose the criteria for asking a manufacturer to expend the loot to
generate tooling for a plastic car probably should be dependent upon the
number of cars that might reasonably be sold. There have been, over the
years, various scenarios that might be used to project such sales. You
know...the car needs to have been owned by ATSF, SP, UP, B&O, NYC, Pennsy,
C&O, Central Vermont [ just checking to see if Armand Premo is awake ],
Southern, GN, NP, ACL and SAL. Actually, a car owned by UP and 5 others
would probably be acceptable <G>. However, is that really a good scenario? I
mean, since the STMFC has shown time and again that box cars went
everywhere, is there any real reason for the other 5...if we're talking box
cars? Well...paraphrasing that infamous statement made by a former member of
the SP 4449 crew to me at the end of Railfair 81 [ Hmmm. Denny (
Anspach )...isn't it about time for another? Denny? You there? Haven't heard
from you for awhile ] when I asked if the SP dispatcher would tell us when
4449 was scheduled to leave Sacramento..."Probably Not", I'll say, Probably.
Why? Simple. The STMFC still only gets to about 1650 modelers. Nevertheless,
it is difficult to find a car that has not been made that would work for
several of the above RR's [ a 50 ft auto car like MDC did sounds good ].
So...abandoning that criteria and speaking of box/auto cars, obviously 3 or
4 come to mind. First, the UP A-50-14 and A-50-15 with and without end
doors. Second, UP A-50-19. Trix did the A-50-16...of course calling it a 19.
We can add the UP B-50-19 and/or B-50-21. And, while I'm feeling
generous...how about an ATSF FE-24? I mean, the thing was painted in green
for express service and Mineral Brown for frt service. They could sell 2 to
a real Santa Fe guy.

As usual...when this topic comes up, I find myself thinking [ no doubt in
error ] that the number of prototype cars should have significance. And...as
usual...presto! The AAR Alternate standard 50 ton hopper...of which C&O had
about 20,000. I mean...what's the difference between 10,000 and 80,000 when
it comes to frt cars? It's sorta like...can you tell the difference between
15° and 25°? I can't. In fact...below freezing [ 53°? ], I can't tell
anything. But, regardless of the numbers...we'll likely have another
manufacturer produce yet another AAR standfard 50 ton hopper.
And...yes...hoppers of all kinds wandered all over the northeast and
midwest. Uh oh...a certain dignified, well spoken and extremely
knowledgeable frt car historian will no doubt imquire why I think C&O
hoppers appeared in Nevada [ midwest ] so...I should say in the region
Illinois and east north of Alabama/Jawga/South Carolina....including New
York but perhaps not Vermontanada...wherever that is. Armand? So...if one
models the C&EI, C&IM, NKP, NC&STL, L&N, Southern, PRR, NYC, B&O, Erie, D&H,
RF&P, Mil, Clinchfield, Monon, DT&I, RDG, New Haven, N&W [ yes, even N&W ],
IC, W&LE, LV, Wabash, B&LE, P&LE, P&WV [ I know such a modeler ], WM, DL&W,
Virginian, and, of course...South Buffalo....you need C&O hoppers.

So...given that...I suppose we'll finally get an AAR Alternate Standard 50
ton hopper...eh? Well...in the words of that infamous SP
dispatcher...Probably Not.

Mike Brock






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Re: Wish List.... May 2010 release

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
Not to rub it in, but we have TWO nice models of Enterprise steel GS gons in N Scale.... the Micro-Trains and a slightly longer Trainworx version.
Trainworx's car s apparently 46 feet (can you confirm, Charlie?), though they freely letter it for several roads' 40-ft. cars. Sigh.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Wish List.... May 2010 release

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

I'm always a bit amused to read wish lists for frt cars. I'll also freely admit that I no nothing about scales other than HO [ some will add HO as well ].

I suppose the criteria for asking a manufacturer to expend the loot to generate tooling for a plastic car probably should be dependent upon the number of cars that might reasonably be sold. There have been, over the years, various scenarios that might be used to project such sales. You know...the car needs to have been owned by ATSF, SP, UP, B&O, NYC, Pennsy, C&O, Central Vermont [ just checking to see if Armand Premo is awake ], Southern, GN, NP, ACL and SAL. Actually, a car owned by UP and 5 others would probably be acceptable <G>. However, is that really a good scenario? I mean, since the STMFC has shown time and again that box cars went everywhere, is there any real reason for the other 5...if we're talking box cars? Well...paraphrasing that infamous statement made by a former member of the SP 4449 crew to me at the end of Railfair 81 [ Hmmm. Denny ( Anspach )...isn't it about time for another? Denny? You there? Haven't heard from you for awhile ] when I asked if the SP dispatcher would tell us when 4449 was scheduled to leave Sacramento..."Probably Not", I'll say, Probably. Why? Simple. The STMFC still only gets to about 1650 modelers. Nevertheless, it is difficult to find a car that has not been made that would work for several of the above RR's [ a 50 ft auto car like MDC did sounds good ]. So...abandoning that criteria and speaking of box/auto cars, obviously 3 or 4 come to mind. First, the UP A-50-14 and A-50-15 with and without end doors. Second, UP A-50-19. Trix did the A-50-16...of course calling it a 19. We can add the UP B-50-19 and/or B-50-21. And, while I'm feeling generous...how about an ATSF FE-24? I mean, the thing was painted in green for express service and Mineral Brown for frt service. They could sell 2 to a real Santa Fe guy.

As usual...when this topic comes up, I find myself thinking [ no doubt in error ] that the number of prototype cars should have significance. And...as usual...presto! The AAR Alternate standard 50 ton hopper...of which C&O had about 20,000. I mean...what's the difference between 10,000 and 80,000 when it comes to frt cars? It's sorta like...can you tell the difference between 15� and 25�? I can't. In fact...below freezing [ 53�? ], I can't tell anything. But, regardless of the numbers...we'll likely have another manufacturer produce yet another AAR standfard 50 ton hopper. And...yes...hoppers of all kinds wandered all over the northeast and midwest. Uh oh...a certain dignified, well spoken and extremely knowledgeable frt car historian will no doubt imquire why I think C&O hoppers appeared in Nevada [ midwest ] so...I should say in the region Illinois and east north of Alabama/Jawga/South Carolina....including New York but perhaps not Vermontanada...wherever that is. Armand? So...if one models the C&EI, C&IM, NKP, NC&STL, L&N, Southern, PRR, NYC, B&O, Erie, D&H, RF&P, Mil, Clinchfield, Monon, DT&I, RDG, New Haven, N&W [ yes, even N&W ], IC, W&LE, LV, Wabash, B&LE, P&LE, P&WV [ I know such a modeler ], WM, DL&W, Virginian, and, of course...South Buffalo....you need C&O hoppers.

So...given that...I suppose we'll finally get an AAR Alternate Standard 50 ton hopper...eh? Well...in the words of that infamous SP dispatcher...Probably Not.

Mike Brock


Re: PRR X-29's, NYC Lot 486 and then?

Richard Townsend
 

Nothing, I answer, as I have several of each, but they are not the prototype I'm looking for, which is the one in this photo of a Utah Coal Route GS gon: http://www.mindat.org/photo-254652.html


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Fri, May 28, 2010 3:26 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR X-29's, NYC Lot 486 and then?






--- In STMFC@..., richtownsend@... wrote:

Sheesh. I can't believe anyone even has to ask this question. We (I) need Enterprise GS gons. C&S and several other roads.
What, might I ask, was wrong with the ones done already? Both Detail Associates and Red Caboose did both the composite and all steel Enterprise cars as used by UP and SP, RC even did the alternate chain door mechanisms (as opposed to the patented "link" mechanism). There's no good reason to invest in tooling if no one buys the models that are already produced.

Dennis


Re: IC 40' box car decal

 

Maybe Jerry Glow would be interested? He does some great looking accurate sets.
 
Rich Christie

--- On Fri, 5/28/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] IC 40' box car decal
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, May 28, 2010, 5:23 PM


 




Staffan, the Illinois Central (steam era) has really gotten the
short end of the stick decal-wise, even while Dan Kohlberg has
produced a boatload of beautiful IC/ICG decals for the post-STMFC
era. Even CDS, and Mark Vaughan, ignored the IC. I sent a copy of
a beautiful photo of IC 20223 (stenciled for automobile engine
loading and a "return empty to" stencil) to Intermountain in the
hope they would produce a model of the IC "1940" AAR box cars but
no luck there either. I agree with you about the shortcomings of
Champ HB-150 but that's just about all there is...

Tim O'Connor

At 5/28/2010 03:40 PM Friday, you wrote:
Where can I find lettering for an HO 40' IC box car like the 18629 in the photo on p. 22 of the RP Cyc 4? The Champ set no. HB-150 seems a bit oversized judging by the Champ Lettering Plan Book. Thanks in advance,

Staffan Ehnbom


Re: PRR X-29's, NYC Lot 486 and then?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 28, 2010, at 11:35 AM, Bruce Smith wrote:

I love these speculation fests... Gons can be a bit more of a
difficult sell - any eastern roads with Enterprise gons?
AFAIK, the only eastern road that had GS gondolas in significant
numbers was B&M, and they weren't of Enterprise design. Besides, we
already have the later Enterprise gons for SP and UP, though it would
be nice to have the earlier cars (as once modeled by Ulrich) as well.

I would also think that the following might be good if someone were
looking for projects:
- I second the notion of the GATC tank car
Under serious consideration.

- UTLX X-3 (as I doubt I will ever get enough of Martin's kits done)
Every manufacturer who has considered this has been scared off by the
fact that only UTL owned them and there are very few accurate P/L
schemes (actually, only one apart from some very odd-ball
exceptions). Many on this list would buy a bunch of these models,
but they would be of hardly any interest to the toy train collectors,
vesties, and perpetual beginners in the hobby who far outnumber us.

- Harriman Standard 40'10" SP/UP flat cars
One of the better manufacturers is thinking about this, though far
from being committed.

- 1921/22 and 1927/28 FGE/WFE reefers (as built, not the modified IM
car)
Not a chance. Not many of us model a date before the 1950s, by which
time all (or almost all) of the FGE/WFE cars had been rebuilt.

Other suggestions have included such unlikely prototypes as Rio
Grande 12 panel box cars with Duryea underframes, 46' Rio Grande and
WP gondolas, and CB&Q 1-1/2 door single sheathed auto cars. Hello?
What are you guys smoking? Raise your hand if you would like to
spend your own money on the development and tooling for such
projects. Gee, I don't see any hands raised. I wonder why? These
are classic examples of prototypes which might make sense for resin
kits but are economically absurd for RTR styrene.

In my opinion, what us steam and transition era modelers need most
right now are single sheathed 40' box cars. Look at any freight yard
or freight train photo from the '40s and '50s, even the late '50s,
and they were all over the place; yet accurate, correctly painted and
lettered models are almost non-existent except in resin. The problem
is that most of the prototype cars were built during the 1920s when
there was scarcely any standardization of design, so there are none
that could be correctly modeled for more than one or two RRs. There
were, however, a few examples that were built in such large numbers
for one railroad that they're worth considering. For example, MILW
had a huge fleet of essentially identical SS boxcars built in the
early '20s that went everywhere in interchange. And then there were
a vast number of SP/T&NO B-50-13s and B-50-14s which were essentially
alike except for roofs and some other minor details, and some of
those got rebuilt in later years with Dreadnaught ends replacing
their original SS ends. Santa Fe got thousands of modified ARA SS
box cars in the late 1920s, many (though not all) of which got
distinctive extended height roofs during World War two and lasted in
that form way into the 1960s. Other RRs like the CB&Q and Rock
Island had a lot of SS box cars, as well, but their design kept
changing so that there weren't any dominant prototypes.

The number of steam era prototype freight cars for which injection
molded styrene models might sell well enough to make a modest profit
has diminished to almost none. Demographics are against us; to be
blunt, many of us who model the steam era are geezers whose numbers
dwindle significantly every year. The majority of modelers of every
age tend to model what they remember from their childhood and
adolescence, so there's an inevitable shift in emphasis away from the
steam era toward more recent periods of railroad history. It's no
accident that manufacturers like Walthers have largely shifted focus
to modeling freight cars of the 1960s and later, where there are many
more possibilities for multiple paint and lettering schemes, not to
mention a younger clientele.

None of this is any reason for crying the blues; for us steam era
modelers, this truly is the golden age in terms of what's available.
But much of it is only available in resin, and that's not going to
change appreciably. In fact, many of the resin models are going to
go away as suppliers like Al and Patricia Westerfield and Martin and
Patricia Lofton finally take their belated and richly earned retirement.

Speculation fests, to use Bruce's aptly chosen description, may be
harmless, but they're also largely a waste of time. Instead of
sitting around making pie-in-the-sky lists, maybe we'd be better off
going to the workbench and building some of the kits we already have.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: PRR X-29's, NYC Lot 486 and then?

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., richtownsend@... wrote:

Sheesh. I can't believe anyone even has to ask this question. We (I) need Enterprise GS gons. C&S and several other roads.
What, might I ask, was wrong with the ones done already? Both Detail Associates and Red Caboose did both the composite and all steel Enterprise cars as used by UP and SP, RC even did the alternate chain door mechanisms (as opposed to the patented "link" mechanism). There's no good reason to invest in tooling if no one buys the models that are already produced.

Dennis

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