Date   

Re: IC 40' box car decal

jerryglow2
 

Both comments are correct and I fixed the locations in my illustration. Of course, placement on the model is up to your info and photo you're following. BTW the "Flour Loading" stencil to the left of the door was applied to number series 18500-999. My errors were due to working from a photo of a later repainted car.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "ealabhan0" <ealabhan0@...> wrote:

Jerry,
From photos I have, all pre-"Main Line of Mid-America" cars, plus most Main Line slogan cars with lines above and below the reporting mark and car number, indeed do have the Illinois Central road name, IC reporting mark, car number, and weight data centered on the second panel from the end. However, I also have an M. D. McCarter photo of brand new IC 29110 built 10-46 in the IC's Centralia IL carshops before the Main Line slogan, but with the road name, reporting mark and car number with lines above and below, and weight data, all centered on the third/middle panel of the left side. I find it interesting that Centralia used this more-common positioning in 1946 on at least one series of newly constructed '44 AAR standard boxcars, though I also have a photo of IC 18629 repainted McC 3-55 with all left-side stenciling still in the second panel (and with the Main Line slogan).
All photos I have of cars repainted in the late '50s-on (past your modeling year, I know) have all left-side markings centered in the third/middle panel.
I'm just noting an interesting exception to the rule if one desires to model several different IC transition-era boxcars.
Dave Sieber, Reno NV

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@> wrote:

On May 30, 2010, at 3:44 AM, jerryglow@ wrote:

Coming soon - nearly complete:
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/samples/IC.jpg
Jerry,
I don't know if you've revised this or not since our correspondence earlier today, but the artwork in the link shows the data to the left of the door centered on the middle side panel. Photos and the IC stencil diagrams for these cars show the data was centered on the 2nd panel from the end.
Ed


Re: Weathered reweigh dates, was: Re: Re: IC 40' box car decal

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Mike Brock wrote:
I have noticed a rather strange phenomenon apparently associated with cars traveling over Sherman Hill and possibly other areas in southern Wyoming. The reweigh dates seem to get covered with dirt...sand...whatever. No idea why this would be so common in that area...
A perfect opportunity for an easy summer project, Mike. Overpaint those pesky dirty reweigh areas and fix 'em with Champ or Sunshine decals. Easy to do, looks great, AND it's actually correct! <running for cover>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Weathered reweigh dates, was: Re: Re: IC 40' box car decal

Brian Carlson
 

Mike: You need to get one of those History channel or Discovery Channel
shows that investigate UFO's and other strange phenomena. Maybe you have
some strange energy vortex down there, it might also explain those N&W
hoppers.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@...



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Mike
Brock
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 11:11 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Weathered reweigh dates, was: Re: [STMFC] Re: IC 40' box car decal






Brian Carlson says:

How so the reweigh sets contain the shop date and the separate date allow
one to pick whatever date they want? The are not as bright as I'd like but
weathering helps that.
I have noticed a rather strange phenomenon apparently associated with cars
traveling over Sherman Hill and possibly other areas in southern Wyoming.
The reweigh dates seem to get covered with dirt...sand...whatever. No idea
why this would be so common in that area...


Weathered reweigh dates, was: Re: Re: IC 40' box car decal

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Brian Carlson says:


How so the reweigh sets contain the shop date and the separate date allow
one to pick whatever date they want? The are not as bright as I'd like but
weathering helps that.
I have noticed a rather strange phenomenon apparently associated with cars traveling over Sherman Hill and possibly other areas in southern Wyoming. The reweigh dates seem to get covered with dirt...sand...whatever. No idea why this would be so common in that area...

Mike Brock


Re: IC 40' box car decal

David Sieber
 

Jerry,
From photos I have, all pre-"Main Line of Mid-America" cars, plus most Main Line slogan cars with lines above and below the reporting mark and car number, indeed do have the Illinois Central road name, IC reporting mark, car number, and weight data centered on the second panel from the end. However, I also have an M. D. McCarter photo of brand new IC 29110 built 10-46 in the IC's Centralia IL carshops before the Main Line slogan, but with the road name, reporting mark and car number with lines above and below, and weight data, all centered on the third/middle panel of the left side. I find it interesting that Centralia used this more-common positioning in 1946 on at least one series of newly constructed '44 AAR standard boxcars, though I also have a photo of IC 18629 repainted McC 3-55 with all left-side stenciling still in the second panel (and with the Main Line slogan).
All photos I have of cars repainted in the late '50s-on (past your modeling year, I know) have all left-side markings centered in the third/middle panel.
I'm just noting an interesting exception to the rule if one desires to model several different IC transition-era boxcars.
Dave Sieber, Reno NV

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:

On May 30, 2010, at 3:44 AM, jerryglow@... wrote:

Coming soon - nearly complete:
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/samples/IC.jpg
Jerry,
I don't know if you've revised this or not since our correspondence earlier today, but the artwork in the link shows the data to the left of the door centered on the middle side panel. Photos and the IC stencil diagrams for these cars show the data was centered on the 2nd panel from the end.
Ed


Re: reweigh data (was IC 40' box car decal)

Brian Carlson
 

Tim; Read the information in the Champ packs. All the RR covered in the
pack are listed with their symbols. You are correct the specific location
isn't given but if I want to know I ask the list. Set HD-53 includes the
following for Southern: ALX, CHAT, FN, HE, INM,JS, MDN, MN. I'd guess INM is
Inman Yard.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@...



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 8:21 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: reweigh data (was IC 40' box car decal)






If you say so Richard, then I believe you. But since the dates
and symbols come in separate packages, and the symbols are simply
a jumble with no identification about which railroad uses which
(except for the PRR's distinctive style) I didn't really trust
them. Sunshine groups railroad specific stations + dates on the
same sheet. Looking at Champ's "Southern" railroads I couldn't find
any symbol for Inman Yard for example on the Southern, or others
that I could recognize. But I do appreciate Champ offering data
jumbles for 1955 through 1965.

Tim

At 5/30/2010 05:59 PM Sunday, you wrote:
On May 30, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

generic... I've used them because that's all I could find, but
besides the usual Champ issues, they are generic

At 5/30/2010 04:21 PM Sunday, you wrote:
What's wrong with the Champ reweight sets? HD-50-53 and HD-60-67
I'm not sure what you mean here, Tim, but the Champ reweigh data sets
were based on photographic evidence, as well as input from several
members of this list, and contained for most RRs (including the IC)
station symbols for several of the most common shops. I use them all
the time and think they're quite good.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Merchants Despatch Reefer construction

Tim O'Connor
 

I think most rolling stock has some amount of camber that can be
seen best when the cars are empty. I recall a few years ago when
Walthers produced some correctly bowed Amtrak passenger cars (there's
something like 3"-4" of camber over the 85' length of the cars) that
modelers thought they were defective! But I imagine it's not easy to
cut molds that reproduce the slight camber for freight cars. Door
tracks, doors, roofs would all be affected!

Tim O'Connor

At 5/30/2010 05:55 PM Sunday, you wrote:
The bow almost seems exagerated in that photo; there's another builder's photo of a car from the same series on the Wikipedia articlel for MDT which I beleive is also from the Detroit Publishing collection. I've never noticed such a bow before , but if I stare at it there does seem to be one. Side shots of cars from the same lot in service do not exhibit bow; and very old cars exhibit a bow but the other way. My guess is the truss rods may have been a bit overtightened to compensate for settling of the hardware under road and loading conditions. Just a guess. I also suspect some of the bowing is due to the angle of the shot.


Roger Hinman
On May 30, 2010, at 10:13 AM, Arthur Kuperstein wrote:

Hope everyone is enjoying the holiday weekend. I have copied the link to
a c.1906 photo from Shorpy,
<http://www.shorpy.com/node/8252?size=_original> , showing a siding full
of new Merchants Despatch reefers. All of them look new with a *distinct
hump , floor to roof line*. Is this typical for this type of
construction? The older reefers down the track appear to have flat floor
lines. Thanks.
Art Kuperstein
M&PRR c.1949
Langhorne, Pa.


Re: reweigh data (was IC 40' box car decal)

Tim O'Connor
 

If you say so Richard, then I believe you. But since the dates
and symbols come in separate packages, and the symbols are simply
a jumble with no identification about which railroad uses which
(except for the PRR's distinctive style) I didn't really trust
them. Sunshine groups railroad specific stations + dates on the
same sheet. Looking at Champ's "Southern" railroads I couldn't find
any symbol for Inman Yard for example on the Southern, or others
that I could recognize. But I do appreciate Champ offering data
jumbles for 1955 through 1965.

Tim

At 5/30/2010 05:59 PM Sunday, you wrote:
On May 30, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

generic... I've used them because that's all I could find, but
besides the usual Champ issues, they are generic

At 5/30/2010 04:21 PM Sunday, you wrote:
What's wrong with the Champ reweight sets? HD-50-53 and HD-60-67
I'm not sure what you mean here, Tim, but the Champ reweigh data sets
were based on photographic evidence, as well as input from several
members of this list, and contained for most RRs (including the IC)
station symbols for several of the most common shops. I use them all
the time and think they're quite good.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: 40 ft gons

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rich Christie wrote:
Tony, Reversed, "flipped" is modelers jargon that I have seen in gondola articles.
I wasn't in much doubt about which arrangement, but we already have a word for this, "reverse," so I don't see the need for another--
and flipped could mean a couple of things. There are lots of terminologies one can find in modeling articles, some of which should never have seen the light of day.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: 40 ft gons

 

Tony, Reversed, "flipped" is modelers jargon that I have seen in gondola articles.
 
Rich Christie

--- On Sun, 5/30/10, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:


From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: 40 ft gons
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, May 30, 2010, 4:02 PM


 



Rich Christie wrote:
I wrote Stan Rydarowicz and sent him photos of gonodla ends, no
word. I agree with your choice, but I also think we need Pullman
ends, Pressed Steel and flipped Dreadnaughts.
By "flipped" do you mean reverse Dreadnaught or recessed
Dreadnaught? We need the former much more than the latter for gondolas.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: IC 40' box car decal

Brian Carlson
 

How so the reweigh sets contain the shop date and the separate date allow
one to pick whatever date they want? The are not as bright as I'd like but
weathering helps that.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@...



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Sunday, May 30, 2010 4:39 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: IC 40' box car decal






generic... I've used them because that's all I could find, but
besides the usual Champ issues, they are generic

At 5/30/2010 04:21 PM Sunday, you wrote:
What's wrong with the Champ reweight sets? HD-50-53 and HD-60-67


Re: IC 40' box car decal

Richard Hendrickson
 

On May 30, 2010, at 1:39 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

generic... I've used them because that's all I could find, but
besides the usual Champ issues, they are generic

At 5/30/2010 04:21 PM Sunday, you wrote:
What's wrong with the Champ reweight sets? HD-50-53 and HD-60-67
I'm not sure what you mean here, Tim, but the Champ reweigh data sets
were based on photographic evidence, as well as input from several
members of this list, and contained for most RRs (including the IC)
station symbols for several of the most common shops. I use them all
the time and think they're quite good.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: Merchants Despatch Reefer construction

Roger Hinman <rhinman@...>
 

The bow almost seems exagerated in that photo; there's another builder's photo of a car from the same series on the Wikipedia articlel for MDT which I beleive is also from the Detroit Publishing collection. I've never noticed such a bow before , but if I stare at it there does seem to be one. Side shots of cars from the same lot in service do not exhibit bow; and very old cars exhibit a bow but the other way. My guess is the truss rods may have been a bit overtightened to compensate for settling of the hardware under road and loading conditions. Just a guess. I also suspect some of the bowing is due to the angle of the shot.


Roger Hinman
On May 30, 2010, at 10:13 AM, Arthur Kuperstein wrote:

Hope everyone is enjoying the holiday weekend. I have copied the link to
a c.1906 photo from Shorpy,
<http://www.shorpy.com/node/8252?size=_original> , showing a siding full
of new Merchants Despatch reefers. All of them look new with a *distinct
hump , floor to roof line*. Is this typical for this type of
construction? The older reefers down the track appear to have flat floor
lines. Thanks.
Art Kuperstein
M&PRR c.1949
Langhorne, Pa.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Reefer loads requiring "protective service"

Guy Wilber
 

Gene,

Soory about the miscue; here's the poultry information for fresh, not frozen poultry.

Additionally, the AAR information is circa 1940. During the latter part of WWII and into 1947 the AAR did a large scale study on commodities shipped in reefers. If I recall correctly, the study included over 70 commodities including extensive work on frozen products. Some of the numbers listed may have changed somewhat. The reefers of Canadian roads were assigned somewhat different temperatures for lighting and extinguishing heaters.

Poultry -

Commodity 10, ICC 231, Dressed Poultry. 15-10 Above 0 to light, 15-20 Above 0 to extinguish.
Regards,

Guy Wilber
Reno, Nevada


Re: Reefer loads requiring "protective service"

Guy Wilber
 

Gene asked:

Would anyone care to improve my list?
Gene,

I don't know how much the following might help, but here is a bit of information. The AAR's Freight Claims Division Rules used the USDAs average freezing points of fruits and vegetables in establishing when heaters must be ignited as well as extinguished.

All perishables other than fruits and vegetables were assigned values as well, in the case of poultry I would assume that it was "fresh, not frozen". Eggs were "in shell" as well as "packaged", the latter along with powdered eggs became quite prominent during and after WWII.

Failure to ignite or extinguish heaters within these parameters, along with full documentation was deemed, "negligence" and as such; contents delivered damaged were subject to claims.

The following listed by; AAR freight claim commodity group no., ICC commodity no., outside temperature range (Deg. F) to ignite and extinguish heaters.

Apples -
Commodity 4, ICC 120. 10-5 Above 0 to light, 10-15 Above to extinguish.

Butter -
Commodity 11, ICC 221, Butter and Margarine. ICC 250, Butter churned from cream. 10-5 Above 0 to light, 10-15 Above 0 to extinguish.

Carrots -
Commodity 7, ICC 143 (n. o. s.) fresh vegetables. 15-10 Above 0 to light, 15-20 Above 0 to extinguish.

Eggs -
Commodity 12, ICC 240, Eggs in shell. 15-10 Above 0 to light, 15-20 Above 0 to extinguish.

Potatoes-
Commodity 7, ICC 130, Potatoes , other than sweet. 20-15 Above 0 to light, 20-25 Above 0 to extinguish.

Poultry -
Commodity 10, ICC 231, Dressed Poultry.


Re: PRR X-29's, NYC Lot 486 and then?

rwitt_2000
 

Richard,

Thank you for your reply. All your points are valid and you reached the
same conclusion that I really wanted to make is that a RTR model of the
B&O M-53 wagon-top would meet similar criteria. I do hope a styrene
version will appear soon that has been hinted at for many years.

Bob Witt

P.S. I included the MDC/Roundhouse to be complete and as you state it is
not a scale model of a ribbed side at all.


Richard Hendrickson replied:


There are a few other such steam-era prototypes which, though
"signature" cars for a single railroad, would meet the same criteria
and thus would probably sell in large enough numbers to justify
tooling models, the most obvious example being the B&O wagon top box
cars, which are said to be coming (finally) in RTR styrene. Bear in
mind that many of the sales of such models are to people who are
attracted to them not because they are historically significant or
prototypically accurate but just because they're noticeably different.

to what Bob Witt wrote:

Richard and Charlie,

I will add, if it is absurd, then it seems remarkable that we have
in
styrene, models of the Milwaukee "ribbed-side" boxcars in multiple
variations from three new vendors in HO scale, plus the old
MDC/Roundhouse, and from Fox Valley Models in N scale.


Re: 40 ft gons

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rich Christie wrote:
I wrote Stan Rydarowicz and sent him photos of gonodla ends, no word. I agree with your choice, but I also think we need Pullman ends, Pressed Steel and flipped Dreadnaughts.
By "flipped" do you mean reverse Dreadnaught or recessed Dreadnaught? We need the former much more than the latter for gondolas.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: IC 40' box car decal

Ed Hawkins
 

On May 30, 2010, at 3:44 AM, jerryglow@... wrote:

Coming soon - nearly complete:
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/samples/IC.jpg
Jerry,
I don't know if you've revised this or not since our correspondence
earlier today, but the artwork in the link shows the data to the left
of the door centered on the middle side panel. Photos and the IC
stencil diagrams for these cars show the data was centered on the 2nd
panel from the end.
Ed


Re: CNW Modified 1937 AAR boxcars

Ed Hawkins
 

On May 30, 2010, at 12:12 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

These are the only notes I have (besides what is in the spreadsheet
from
steamfreightcars.com). If you find out about the A/G running boards
please
let us know!

CNW 71000-74398 -- Mineral Red Sides, Ends & Roof; Black U/F & Trucks,
"Route of the 400" on both sides
Tim,
According to the CNW diagrams covering 71000-71998 (even), it's
entirely possible that the 500 cars built by Pullman-Standard came with
only Apex r/b & b/s, but the way the data is presented it's also
possible that a portion of the series had U.S.G. specialties.

Several CNW diagrams covering smaller groups numbered 71000-71066
equipped with special devices all specify Apex. Two additional diagrams
lumping the entire range of CNW box cars numbered 71068-74398 and
76900--77394 (even) specify either Apex or U.S.G., but they don't
specify how many of each or their respective car number assignments.

Data for some of the specific series of cars in the above number ranges
have known quantities and car number assignments of Apex or U.S.G.
specialties, but from the way the diagrams have lumped several groups
together, it's not possible to determine the answer for 71000-71998
with 100% certainty.

Pullman builder's photos of 71028 and 71342 both have Apex. An
in-service photo of 71428 shows an Apex. That's all the photos I have
from the 71000-71998 series. I'm of the belief that at least the first
half of the order had Apex. We need to find some photos of higher
numbers in the series. Jeff Koeller may have the answer, or a general
arrangement drawing might specify the running boards & brake steps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: IC 40' box car decal

Tim O'Connor
 

generic... I've used them because that's all I could find, but
besides the usual Champ issues, they are generic

At 5/30/2010 04:21 PM Sunday, you wrote:
What's wrong with the Champ reweight sets? HD-50-53 and HD-60-67

105121 - 105140 of 195635