Date   
Re: C&W GS gondola

SHAY STARK
 

Tim,

This is a neet photo.


Anyone know the history behind this C&W gondola, seen here in 1963?
Looks like it might be ex-D&RGW or ex-Utah Coal.
The car has had some modifications to it as it does not directly match the DRGW 70000 series cars or the smaller cars that were similar to the 70 ton cars only shorter. I don't have my information with me right now to give you an answer but I will look when I get a chance. I had once been told that the C&S had cars similar to the D&RGW's but I think that they were of an earlier vintage which had the side sheets located inside the car framing.

Thanks

Shay Stark

Re: Another way to haul wood

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 18, 2010, at 9:48 AM, S hed wrote:


http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/
imlsmohai&CISOPTR=3613&CISOBOX=1&REC=18
That's a nice photo illustrating the versatility of general service
gondolas. Try loading that lumber in a hopper car! Also, how many
details can you see in this photo that would send an OSHA inspector
up the wall today? Junk randomly scattered all over the place,
workmen climbing precariously on the gondola load, other workmen
unloading bags alongside a huge mound of unsecured bags on an
overloaded truck. Current OSHA rules may be over the top in some
cases, but IMHO this photo illustrates why some sort of regulation
was needed.

Richard Hendrickson

Re: Commercial Inland Ry Box Car

railsnw1 <railsnw@...>
 

That's one of the photos from a teachers kit on what railroads do which I think includes the East & West Railroad photos also.

Richard Wilkens

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

The photo is interesting because you can see the floor plates.
I think these were available at one time as etched parts from
Sunshine... I have seen them in only a couple of photos.

Also note the CB&Q flat car (8922x) to the right, and the UP
box car to the left.

Tim O'Connor

http://media.digitalarchives.wa.gov/WA.Media/do/FC82059AECD18CDAE08BF23FA386DCCD.jpg


You've found a great example of the Dr. P. H. Martin school of photo retouching :-)

If you click on the "View larger image" then right click the image, you should open a version that you can zoom in on. It's a Great Northern car, as evidenced by the Great Northern Railway equipment trust lettering on the upper left corner of the car side; just to the left on the car end you can see the brush stroke that obliterated the end reporting mark. The fanciful lettering scheme was an attempt to cover the rest of the GN markings with something relatively believable, kind of like the AAR's East & West R.R. This sort of thing was done from time to time when a company wanted to use a photo in an ad and didn't want to appear to show favoritism to one railroad over another, although the more usual way to do this was to simply airbrush the identifying marks out on the print.

Dennis

Another way to haul wood

S hed <shed999@...>
 

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/imlsmohai&CISOPTR=3613&CISOBOX=1&REC=18



- Steve Hedlund, Everett, WA

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Re: Commercial Inland Ry Box Car

CJ Riley
 

There was(is) a company called, I believe Stran-Steel that made nailable material.

CJ Riley








 









Yes, the diagram for the GN 6000-6499 says "Flooring__NSF__Stra?-Steel" with the fifth letter in the Stra-word unreadable.





















[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Mod 1937 AAR vs. 1942 AAR.

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Jun 18, 2010, at 5:49 AM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

Thanks Richard. The 1942 Standard design is essentially just the
modified
1937 car codified. There were no physical differences between them
correct?
That's my understanding.

Richard Hendrickson
We had some discussion about the AAR standard boxcar and it's revision history almost four years ago. Here might be a good place to start reading:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/message/58671

Dennis

Re: Excuses for getting more covered (cement) hoppers?

Donald B. Valentine
 

--- In STMFC@..., Charles R Yungkurth <drgwrail@...> wrote:

A huge amount of rock salt for use on icy highway was sent in old PS-2 covered hoppers in upstate NY every fall. Most of this originated on the Genesee & Wyoming which served a huge sale mine at Retsof.

The G&W seemd to get "basket case" hoppers from all over the country to meet this traffic every fall. I recall cars from MILW and other midwest roads.  Seems as though hauling rock salt was the last use before the scrap line! The G&W had their own cars for hauling salt for the food and chemical industry.

Chuck Y
Boulder CO

Hello Chuck,

Like you, I remember the salt traffic comong off the G&W quite well, particualrly into Claremont, NH and Middlesex, VT but when did this really get under way???? I do not recall seeing any of it until the VERY late 1960's or early 1970's, beyond the scope of this group.

Kindest regards and please say hello to our two mutual acquaintances in Boulder.

Don Valentine


Re: Mod 1937 AAR vs. 1942 AAR.

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 18, 2010, at 5:49 AM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

Thanks Richard. The 1942 Standard design is essentially just the
modified
1937 car codified. There were no physical differences between them
correct?
That's my understanding.

Richard Hendrickson

Re: Fir Log Loads on NP for Ford

Tim O'Connor
 

Rob Kirkham mentioned these photos in Sept 2008. IIRC they were pilings
to support a new factory built along the NJ waterfront -- I remember trying
to find the location with maps.bing.com but the whole area has now been
transformed with housing and the tracks are gone. Ford's timing was pretty
bad, eh -- October 1929?

Tim O'Connor

At 6/18/2010 11:09 AM Friday, you wrote:

I ran across this picture of 6 NP flat cars hauling logs from Washington State to a Ford Motor Co plant in New Jersey.

http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1385&CISOBOX=1&REC=8

I know that the picture was taken in 1929 but hauling logs like that probably didn't change too much through the years.

Pretty cool looking picture.

- Steve Hedlund

Fir Log Loads on NP for Ford

S hed <shed999@...>
 

I ran across this picture of 6 NP flat cars hauling logs from Washington State to a Ford Motor Co plant in New Jersey.



http://content.lib.washington.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/pickett&CISOPTR=1385&CISOBOX=1&REC=8



I know that the picture was taken in 1929 but hauling logs like that probably didn't change too much through the years.



Pretty cool looking picture.



- Steve Hedlund

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Re: NYC boxcar roofs revisited

pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

Both cars have patch panels.

Tom Madden

--- In STMFC@..., Todd Horton <toddchorton@...> wrote:

Does this car have a patch panel running along the bottom or is that my imagination?  Todd Horton

Re: I want to get some 8000 gal tank cars .What is the best one ?

Bruce Smith
 

On Jun 18, 2010, at 7:04 AM, dakkinder wrote:

The Proto 2000 or the Intermountain any help would be appreciated.
Dear "dakkinder",

First, please sign your email with your real name - that is a requirement of STMFC

Second, please define "best" and provide the operational scenario under which you wish to use these cars (year, location, etc)

Third, as Brian has already responded, both of these cars represent AC&F built cars. The P2K cars are type 21s built from 1921 on to about 1927 while the IM cars are type 27, built from 1927 on. The P2K cars are a bit better detailed in that they accurately portray the side sills as an outward facing "[", as opposed to the IM cars which should have similar sills, but the model's are flat. The rest of these cars are very similar in terms of the level of detail.

If you are modeling a "fleet" of cars, depending on the time frame and customers served, you could use a number of AC&F cars, many likely in SHPX reporting marks (AC&F's tank car leasing arm). In that case, and if you are modeling post 1927, the majority of your cars should be the type 21 cars, with some type 27 cars. The longer- thinner type 27 cars help break the monotony. In addition, you say 8K gallon, but both were also offered in 10K gallon models as well. The combination of these, with other tank cars such as the the F&C type 11, Sunshine UTL X-3s and GATC type 30s, Speedwitch National tank cars and Southern Car and Foundry's Standard tank cars, as well as a number of brass cars, can be used to create a more typical fleet, with a wide variety of shapes, sizes, domes etc to give the characteristic steam era tank car mix.

Finally, tank cars are one of the favorite subjects of many on this list and thus the archives are replete with information as well. That is a great place to check out the accuracy of specific paint and lettering for a given date (as Brian indicated, P2k paint and lettering is accurate, but may not be appropriate for your period, IM depends on the car)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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Re: I want to get some 8000 gal tank cars .What is the best one ?

Brian Carlson
 

to whomever you are since you didn't sign your post.

To answer your question. either will do since they represent different
models. The p2k is an ACF Type 21 and the Intermountain is an ACF Type 27.
The paint and lettering on the P2k can be trusted, and most of the IM paint
schemes are correct but should be verified.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@...

Re: Mod 1937 AAR vs. 1942 AAR.

Brian Carlson
 

Thanks Richard. The 1942 Standard design is essentially just the modified
1937 car codified. There were no physical differences between them correct?



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@...



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
Richard Hendrickson
Sent: Friday, June 18, 2010 12:42 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Mod 1937 AAR vs. 1942 AAR.





On Jun 17, 2010, at 7:20 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:

The link to the Sunshine sheet that Jim Hayes posted reminded of a
question
I have been meaning to ask. In most literature that I have seen the
10'-6"
IH cars built before the postwar period have been referred to as
Modified
1937 AAR design. Others, in the 40's, have been referred to as the
1942 AAR
design cars. I see fewer references to the 42 design cars. Was
there an
actual 1942 design and what was different than the mod. 1937 cars,
or is
this a modelers term like PS-0 for Pullman's lightweight pre-war
boxcars?
(PS-0 is probably one of my biggest pet peeves when it comes to
freight
cars)
Brian, a number of railroads began in the late 1930s to order box
cars of AAR design which were taller than standard (between 10'4" and
10'6" instead of 10'0"), for example Illinois Central and Soo Line
ca. 1939-'40 with square cornered ends and Santa Fe, CB&Q, DSS&A,
Erie, Rock Island, etc. ca. 1940-'41 with W-section corner posts and
round cornered ends. As the 1937 AAR box car was the standard design
at that time, these cars came to be called modified 1937 AAR cars;
see, for example the 1946 Car Builders' Cyclopedia, pp. 110-111,
where the Erie car is so identified.

The AAR Car Construction Committee, seeing the handwriting on the
wall, then approved an optional increase in inside height of the
standard box car to 10'6". This became effective in October, 1941
and has often been called the 1942 AAR standard design to
differentiate it from the 1937 design, on the one hand, and the 1944
postwar standard design with Dreadnaught ends and steel running
boards on the other. All of these terms are a kind of shorthand
representing the dates when the changes were made to the drawings and
dimensions in the AAR manual and its supplements. Bear in mind that
the AAR wasn't interested in history, so from their perspective the
standard box car design was whatever was shown in the current manual
and supplements at any given point in time.

Richard Hendrickson

Re: Wood Kits

Donald B. Valentine
 

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

The sanding sealer Scalecoat sells is OK but I used to use Ambroid cement diluted with MEK. I soaked strip wood in this mixture in a test tube.

Yes, it can be air brushed.

I uused fine grit sandpaper and would sandpaper before and after I applied the sealer solution, depending on the roughness of the wood.

You will find that when spraying the sealer will go into wood like water goes into a sponge in the beginning.

If you only coat one side of scribed wood you will find that it will curl up.

I had the side of a Q'Craft X23 box car curl up when I applied decal setting solution to an unsealed car. I've seen many built up, unsealed cars with gaps in the sides at shows.

I substituted styrene and brass shim stock for various wood parts.

Ed
Anytime a genuine wood, as opposed to say wood chip and resin, product is used for anything it is extremely important to seal ALL surfaces of it. The wood will not be stabilized unless this is done as the non-sealed side can still absorb moisture and expand, a more common occurrence than shrinking. Shrinking is more likely to occur when wood is not sealed and dries to a degree greater than when put in place for whatever it was being used. These factore are true whether constructing one of the older "craftsman" type kits, installing new clapboards on your home (in which case you will double their life by treating all surfaces rather than only those that are exposed to the weather, or building a fine piece of furniture. I saw good examples of what happens when wood is not sealed properly, and quarter-sawn material was not available, when working in a cabinet shop making instrument cases as a part-time job when in high school. Quarter-sawn wood was prefered as it is less likely to have such tendencies. When unavailable or too expensive for what was being undertaken, however, paying strict attention to sealing everything that could be sealed usually allowed the use of a lesser grade of wood.

Cordially, Don Valentine

I want to get some 8000 gal tank cars .What is the best one ?

dakkinder
 

The Proto 2000 or the Intermountain any help would be appreciated .

Re: clear shot of lumber door

Thomas Baker
 

Does someone out there have a clear shot of the lumber door on the type of Milwaukee Road SS box car that appeared in RMC as the second in the Ted Culotta series just after the issue featuring the FRISCO SS car? I am having to scratchbuild the car in S but have no really clear photo or drawing of the lumber door on the A end. Any help would be appreciated.

Tom

Re: Hopper/boxcars (was Excuses . . .covered (cement) hoppers?)

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Cliff, and friends,

Yes, it was Holly sugar. Thanks for catching this gaff. Although I
worked almost across the street from the plant, that was in 1975. Now
that I'm waaaay older than Elvis, details like that are getting really
fuzzy.

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

cliffprather wrote:

--- In STMFC@..., "Garth G. Groff" <ggg9y@...> wrote:


The Western Pacific operated some single-sheathed tight-bottom boxcars
with roof hatches into the 1960s. They were used in plaster service out
of Gerlach, Nevada. The WP also converted two 1945 steel AAR boxcars
into full covered hoppers with bottom gates, sloped floors (maple
plywood, no less) and roof hatches. The door space was filled with a
solid panel. These were leased to the SP and used in sugar service out
of the Spreckles plant at Dyer near Santa Ana.However, these conversion

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

The sugar factory at Dyer was a Holly Sugar Corp. plant. Holly and Spreckles were seperate companys until a merger in 1996.

Cliff Prather

Re: NYC boxcar roofs revisited

Todd Horton
 

Does this car have a patch panel running along the bottom or is that my imagination?  Todd Horton




________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <@timboconnor>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, June 17, 2010 10:16:55 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] NYC boxcar roofs revisited

 
great shot!

what kinda running boards are those? looks like a combination of
Gypsum (expanded metal) and Apex (grid) styles.

Tim O'Connor

At 6/17/2010 10:02 PM Thursday, you wrote:
Today I stumbled across that old Gerrit Bruins image of Pullmans, tank cars and boxcars in Albany that I posted several years ago. Front and center are two of the NYC steel boxcars recently discussed with replacement rectangular panel roofs. Here's the link to that portion of the image:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/NYC_Boxcars.jpg

The photo was taken around 1958.

Tom Madden






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sunshine NYC 1 1/2 door box- was Re: NYC freight car lettering

tmolsen@...
 

Brian,

Works for me! One can never say never because sooner or later, a photo will surface to show proof that what was said to be never, does exist in a time period that it supposedly did not!

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...