Date   

Re: [Gould Railroad Standard Wooden Cabooses

Tim O'Connor
 

The Van Sweringen roads didn't share any caboose designs?

At 6/21/2010 06:49 PM Monday, you wrote:
The "Harriman" (UP CA, SP???) is the only "standard" wood caboose I am aware of.
St. Charles car company built cars for the CB&Q, MP, CM, and others that were pretty much alike (like the Morrison-International "Wide Vision" cars are similar) but not identical.
The so-called "USRA" wood caboose may be close but I haven't seen any study on the pedigree of that family to say if it qualifies as a "standard", even the steel version has about as many variations as the ATSF "1900" clones (WAB, Alton, CRR, etc..).
Charlie Vlk


Re: [Gould Railroad Standard Wooden Cabooses

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Charlie Vlk wrote:
The "Harriman" (UP CA, SP???) is the only "standard" wood caboose I am aware of.
As you might guess, Charlie, it was a Class CA car on both SP and UP, since it was an Associated Lines standard.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: What tank cars would be most appropriate . . .

Tim O'Connor
 

Intermountain did a black Staley car, and a silver Staley car.
But I don't know if either one is correct.

Tim O'Connor

At 6/21/2010 04:51 PM Monday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
I have the A. E. Staley corn syrup car in the orange paint scheme.
The car has a built date of 1920... but the tiny lettering on the
right side has a stencil date of 1953. So I know that car is ok for
me. A 1920's version of the same car probably was black.
There was a silver Staley scheme too, IIRC. I think Drake did it
on their brass GATC 8k car--possibly valid.

Tony Thompson


Re: [Gould Railroad Standard Wooden Cabooses

Charlie Vlk
 

The "Harriman" (UP CA, SP???) is the only "standard" wood caboose I am aware of.
St. Charles car company built cars for the CB&Q, MP, CM, and others that were pretty much alike (like the Morrison-International "Wide Vision" cars are similar) but not identical.
The so-called "USRA" wood caboose may be close but I haven't seen any study on the pedigree of that family to say if it qualifies as a "standard", even the steel version has about as many variations as the ATSF "1900" clones (WAB, Alton, CRR, etc..).
Charlie Vlk

----- Original Message -----
From: Anthony Thompson
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, June 20, 2010 7:41 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: [Gould Railroad Standard Wooden Cabooses



Mike Carson wrote:
> Mullet River Models (MRM) has recently released a Western Pacific
> Caboose, that is stipulated to be a Gould Standard Wooden Caboose.
> A series of Google searches lends credence to the stipulation.
> Other Gould system railroads were the Missouri Pacific, the Wabash,
> the Denver & Rio Grande, the Western Pacific & subsidiary roads.

I've been told, though I'm no Gould Road expert, that there was
no STANDARD Gould caboose, though several of the roads had very
similar ones. Likely someone on this list knows more ( . . . much
more! <g>)

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Reproducing Z-bars on single sheathed cars

spsalso
 

Thanks Randy and Al; that's very nice to hear.

Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: UP Box Car with Grain Doors ca. 1941

Aley, Jeff A
 

The car is a UP B-50-17.

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rwitt_2000
Sent: Monday, June 21, 2010 3:03 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] UP Box Car with Grain Doors ca. 1941



A photo by Russell Lee, ca. 1941, from the Library of Congress
Collection of a UP box car, no. 180160, with grain doors.

I have provided a link to a Flicker site not the original, which has
others by R. Lee with railroad freight cars.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/2179079264/sizes/o/

Bob Witt

P.S. I am not sure if these have been posted before, if they were I
missed them.


UP Box Car with Grain Doors ca. 1941

rwitt_2000
 

A photo by Russell Lee, ca. 1941, from the Library of Congress
Collection of a UP box car, no. 180160, with grain doors.

I have provided a link to a Flicker site not the original, which has
others by R. Lee with railroad freight cars.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/library_of_congress/2179079264/sizes/o/

Bob Witt

P.S. I am not sure if these have been posted before, if they were I
missed them.


Re: What tank cars would be most appropriate . . .

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
I have the A. E. Staley corn syrup car in the orange paint scheme. The car has a built date of 1920... but the tiny lettering on the right side has a stencil date of 1953. So I know that car is ok for me. A 1920's version of the same car probably was black.
There was a silver Staley scheme too, IIRC. I think Drake did it on their brass GATC 8k car--possibly valid.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: What tank cars would be most appropriate . . .

Tim O'Connor
 

Yes, the ORER can't do it alone. But for example, I have the
A. E. Staley corn syrup car in the orange paint scheme. The car
has a built date of 1920... but the tiny lettering on the right
side has a stencil date of 1953. So I know that car is ok for
me. A 1920's version of the same car probably was black.

Tim O'Connor

At 6/21/2010 03:34 PM Monday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tony, what I meant is that the ORER info -combined- with the Proto
2000 lettering can help you decide whether the car is
appropriate for your era. So far I haven't heard about any bogus
schemes or car numbers on the P2K cars although many are
too early for me.
Very true about P2k. I was thinking about your warning for IM
tank cars. And you're right about the ORER helping to determine era
for a car number (though of course one needs to have a copy for one's
era, or close to it), but obviously it can't help with a PAINT SCHEME
of the wrong era, on a correctly-numbered car.

Tony Thompson


Re: What tank cars would be most appropriate . . .

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 21, 2010, at 12:32 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


Tony, what I meant is that the ORER info -combined- with the
Proto 2000 lettering can help you decide whether the car is
appropriate for your era. So far I haven't heard about any
bogus schemes or car numbers on the P2K cars although many are
too early for me.
Since I worked as a consultant with Larry Grubb at Life-Like on the
development of the P2K tank cars, I can assure you that all of the P/
L schemes were accurate and were based on prototype photographic
evidence from the late 1940s and 1950s. I will add that Walthers,
after taking over the P2K line, issued a run of tank cars with KC air
brakes and late 1920s/1930s P/L schemes. Those P/L schemes were also
based on prototype photographic evidence, but that evidence dated
from well before the periods modeled by most STMFC list subscribers,
and in some cases the P/L schemes were short-lived on the prototype
cars. Questions about which P/L schemes were current at a specific
point in time can usually (though not always) be answered with some
precision, but for obvious reasons that's not true for questions
about "the 1930s" or "the 1950s," much less for "the 1930s through
the 1950s." It may be added that private owners (e.g., Texaco,
Magnolia, Shell, Mobil) tended to repaint their tank cars, and to
update P/L schemes, more frequently than large leasing companies like
General American, Union Tank Line, and Shippers Car Line. Of course,
in some cases you can justify running a model with an earlier P/L
scheme (e.g., prewar Kanotex and Magnolia billboard cars) at a later
period if the model is sufficiently weathered and dirty, though that
approach must obviously be used with caution. It's also worth noting
that billboard private owner tank cars were relatively rare in the
tank car fleet as a whole; more or less dirty "plane-Jane" black cars
were far more common.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: What tank cars would be most appropriate . . .

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Tony, what I meant is that the ORER info -combined- with the Proto 2000 lettering can help you decide whether the car is
appropriate for your era. So far I haven't heard about any bogus schemes or car numbers on the P2K cars although many are
too early for me.
Very true about P2k. I was thinking about your warning for IM tank cars. And you're right about the ORER helping to determine era for a car number (though of course one needs to have a copy for one's era, or close to it), but obviously it can't help with a PAINT SCHEME of the wrong era, on a correctly-numbered car.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: What tank cars would be most appropriate . . .

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony, what I meant is that the ORER info -combined- with the
Proto 2000 lettering can help you decide whether the car is
appropriate for your era. So far I haven't heard about any
bogus schemes or car numbers on the P2K cars although many are
too early for me.

Tim O'Connor

At 6/21/2010 02:58 PM Monday, you wrote:
Tim O'Connor wrote:
Generally you can trust the lettering on the Proto 2000 models but
you're taking a big chance with Intermountain models! It helps to
have an appropriate Equipment Register (ORER) for your era so you
can check up on the owners and car numbers.
Tim is right about what you can trust. But the ORER doesn't
always solve problems--some bogus paint schemes have used authentic
initials and car numbers, but applied them to entirely wrong bodies.
Are such models closer to "correct" than if the car numbers are
imaginary? Your call.

Tony Thompson


Re: What tank cars would be most appropriate . . .

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Generally you can trust the lettering on the Proto 2000 models but you're taking a big chance with Intermountain models! It helps to have an appropriate Equipment Register (ORER) for your era so you can check up on the owners and car numbers.
Tim is right about what you can trust. But the ORER doesn't always solve problems--some bogus paint schemes have used authentic initials and car numbers, but applied them to entirely wrong bodies. Are such models closer to "correct" than if the car numbers are imaginary? Your call.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: What tank cars would be most appropriate for roads operating around Chicago...

Tim O'Connor
 

To add to what Bruce wrote:

Numerically in the 1930's, the vast majority of tank cars were
not Type 21's and Type 27's which were more or less "state of the
art" designs. With the advent of oil pipelines, many thousands of
earlier tank cars became "underemployed" and the number of new
tank cars built in the 1920's to 1940's was only a fraction of
the earlier production numbers. And the earlier cars looked very
different, since many (most?) of them had radial rivet seams
(around the diameter of the tank) instead of horizontal seams
like the ACF Types 21 and 27.

Unfortunately in HO scale, for other builders and other designs,
the only option is resin kits, and there aren't that many of them
either.

Generally you can trust the lettering on the Proto 2000 models but
you're taking a big chance with Intermountain models! It helps to
have an appropriate Equipment Register (ORER) for your era so you
can check up on the owners and car numbers.

Tim O'Connor

Doug,

Do what I do, search the archives BEFORE you buy <G>! As for what to
look for, the vast majority of tank cars were privately owned, which
is reflected in the models offered. Those private fleets changed
over time with mergers, so again, what is appropriate for the 1930s
is completely wrong for the 1940s, etc. Certain tank car lines
served certain oil companies, usually regionally, so if you are
modeling specific facilities then you need to look in the archives or
ask about that company. If you're modeling based on the national
fleet as described in the archives (as I do for WWII), then you're in
deep doo doo since you need buckets of UTLX cars, but the IM UTLX
marked type 27 is incorrectly painted, and there is no RTR model of
the common UTLX X-3 class cars (there is a resin kit). What that
leaves you with is SHPX marked cars as an excellent starting point.
For other specific owners, search the archives with "tank car
midwest" and enjoy the reading material you will generate ;^)

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2


Re: Wood Kits

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

I could not agree more on the profound benefits of stability that the sealing of ALL free surfaces of wood or paper exposed to air -in or out- will bestow on any model. If you value your modeling, and modeling efforts, there is simply no reason not to do it .

I personally draw from an old bottle of Testor's Hot Fuel Proof Sanding Sealer (essentially talc in clear lacquer). This fills the grain nicely, dries instantly, and is very easily sanded smooth. These types of sanding sealers are still commonly available at R/C and other hobby stores. Paint alone if applied thick enough will also be a good filler, but too often, a single paint application will not adequately fill .

All wood and paper exposed to air WILL move with changes in moisture, and if one surface of either is sealed - relatively- with paint, or is restrained by being glued to another piece, then the other side will be the only part free to expand or contract, forcing the piece to bend (warp) one way or another. Some woods will behave worse than others in this regard, Pasteboard, and other cheap papers are the worst of all.

In my occasional other life of restoring ancient paper/wood HO freight and passenger cars, I run across this problem all the time. I use a number of methods to try to solve it, including heat, replacement, or reinforcement, with or without mechanical stiffening. I never put them back together, however, without first sealing every bit of paper or wood that will not be painted or supported- in or out.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Re: Excuses for getting more covered (cement) hoppers?

drgwrail
 

Don & All:

You are right about those Genessee & Wyoming shipments of road salt. My time line gets confused and I saw those PS-2s on the LV in the '70s.

Another use of those cars was on the PRR for shipping limestone granules out of Bellefonte PA used on roofing shingles.  In fact the MDC PRR car model showed the legend "Return to Bellefonte PA when Empty".

Chuck Y
Boluder CO



________________________________
From: riverman_vt <riverman_vt@yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Fri, June 18, 2010 10:02:38 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Excuses for getting more covered (cement) hoppers?

 


--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Charles R Yungkurth <drgwrail@...> wrote:

A huge amount of rock salt for use on icy highway was sent in old PS-2 covered hoppers in upstate NY every fall. Most of this originated on the Genesee & Wyoming which served a huge sale mine at Retsof.

The G&W seemd to get "basket case" hoppers from all over the country to meet this traffic every fall. I recall cars from MILW and other midwest roads.  Seems as though hauling rock salt was the last use before the scrap line! The G&W had their own cars for hauling salt for the food and chemical industry.

Chuck Y
Boulder CO
Hello Chuck,

Like you, I remember the salt traffic comong off the G&W quite well, particualrly into Claremont, NH and Middlesex, VT but when did this really get under way???? I do not recall seeing any of it until the VERY late 1960's or early 1970's, beyond the scope of this group.

Kindest regards and please say hello to our two mutual acquaintances in Boulder.

Don Valentine



Re: What tank cars would be most appropriate for roads operating around Chicago...

Bruce Smith
 

On Jun 21, 2010, at 9:16 AM, dakkinder wrote:
Thanks Clark,
Well i just purchased a Intermountain #46305 8000 gal riveted Canton tank car company it has a white tank and red lettering i beleive this would fit into my era's .
It's hard to be specific and frustrating when i have little knowledge of the subject. All i can say is this is what i want to do does anyone have any suggestions as far as road names and paint schemes etc and then i will hunt them down and put them together or buy them.
Doug,

Do what I do, search the archives BEFORE you buy <G>! As for what to look for, the vast majority of tank cars were privately owned, which is reflected in the models offered. Those private fleets changed over time with mergers, so again, what is appropriate for the 1930s is completely wrong for the 1940s, etc. Certain tank car lines served certain oil companies, usually regionally, so if you are modeling specific facilities then you need to look in the archives or ask about that company. If you're modeling based on the national fleet as described in the archives (as I do for WWII), then you're in deep doo doo since you need buckets of UTLX cars, but the IM UTLX marked type 27 is incorrectly painted, and there is no RTR model of the common UTLX X-3 class cars (there is a resin kit). What that leaves you with is SHPX marked cars as an excellent starting point. For other specific owners, search the archives with "tank car midwest" and enjoy the reading material you will generate ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
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Re: What tank cars would be most appropriate for roads operating around Chicago...

dakkinder
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "rockroll50401" <cepropst@...> wrote:



Doug, the guys on this list are extremely helpful. But, it might be better for you to find models that are available to purchase (most road names are made in limited runs). Then ask it they're appropriate for what you're modeling.
Clark Propst
Thanks Clark,
Well i just purchased a Intermountain #46305 8000 gal riveted Canton tank car company it has a white tank and red lettering i beleive this would fit into my era's .
It's hard to be specific and frustrating when i have little knowledge of the subject. All i can say is this is what i want to do does anyone have any suggestions as far as road names and paint schemes etc and then i will hunt them down and put them together or buy them.


Re: What tank cars would be most appropriate for roads operating around Chicago...

Clark Propst
 

Doug, the guys on this list are extremely helpful. But, it might be better for you to find models that are available to purchase (most road names are made in limited runs). Then ask it they're appropriate for what you're modeling.
Clark Propst


What tank cars would be most appropriate for roads operating around Chicago...

dakkinder
 

In the 1930's and from 1940 till 1955. I am specifically looking at the Proto 2k series of cars and the Intermountain cars .
Also to be more detailed about my question the rail roads i'm depicting are the CNW,CB&Q,MILW .
I'm wanting to know the specific road /owner names and paint schemes that are available in both of the above mentioned manufacturers that would be appropriate for my needs.
Any help would be appreciated
Doug Kinder

96441 - 96460 of 187397