Date   

Re: demise of kits

tmolsen@...
 

Brian,

I wouldn't worry about collecting kits as someday in the near future we are going to lose Sunshine to retirement (Tricia will be 65 next year and she has hinted at retirement) and Al Westerfield is closing and retiring at the end of April 2011.

I have approximately 1100 urethane kits and almost 1000 plastic injection kits. In the next year I will thin out the plastic heavily as the urethane kits now duplicate most of the plastic in my 1953 time frame.

Some needle me about having so many unbuilt kits, but so what! If you like freight cars, there are so many railroads and so many different cars. When you lived almost your entire life around the railroad as I have, freight cars have been like old friends. Having a large inventory allows me the ability to pick and choose what I want to build when I want to build it, not having to wait until I can buy it somewhere and hoping that the manufacturer will still be in business.

Built up cars are fine, but many still leave you having to modify and in many cases repaint or renumber them!

Also, I like to invoke a line that Richard Hendrickson once said on this list when this type of string came up in the past: "When I see a freight car kit I like, I buy it and put in my basement! If I do not get to build it, then it is my heirs problem! Amen brother!

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...
54 years as a modeler and railfan: 38.5 years as a professional railroader!


Re: Green Marked Coal

al_brown03
 

There sure *were* colors other than green, and in addition to black! :-) For example, check out "blue coal" in the group archive. (I don't know all the colors that were used.) The idea was to create brand loyalty, a steam-era version of putting a tiger in your tank.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., George Frey <orangetrainman33@...> wrote:

YES BLACK
 George  F                                                                               




________________________________
From: "asychis@..." <asychis@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, June 24, 2010 9:33:35 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Green Marked Coal

 
OK, in ads for Green Marked Coal, was the coal actually marked green in
obvious some way, and how would this be simulated for a model? Were there
other colors other than green?

Jerry Michels












[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Branchline and other box cars offerings

Tim O'Connor
 

Global trade and containerization has chopped the cost of transport
to the bone. You guys need to get out and watch more trains!

I think it costs about $1000 to send a container from LA to
Chicago... that could be 50000 lbs of trains, say 100,000 models,
or... 1 cent per model, to ship it 2,000 miles by rail! And
ships charge much less than railroads (per mile).

Tim O'

Gene Green writes:

The thing that puzzles me is why models get sent all the way to China for
assembly. That seems to add about $10.00 to the price of each car.
Couldn't some enterprising, Spanish-speaking model railroader set up a kit
assembly plant in Mexico? Shipment costs would be lower and transit times
shorter.
------------------------

Dave Nelson replies:
The Yuan will likely continue rise against the Dollar over the next decade
-- as will Chinese labor expenses -- making Chinese Manufacturing less of a
good deal. Who knows... it may turn out shipping plastic freight cars from
Mexico (in real freight cars) becomes a viable alternative.

Dave Nelson


Re: demise of kits

jerryglow2
 

Neat assembly of prepainted kits (at least for me) is not all that easy esp those containing tiny parts that need to be glued. I recently assembled my ART reefer kit purchased from the Amarillo RR Museum and had so much trouble getting good adhesion of the roof details I wound up stripping the roof and ends so I could assemble them as raw plastic. Luckily I found a perfect match for the roof/end color while I was doing a kitbashed R40-10 clone. I did loose the end lettering but made decals of what had been on them. See my ART project in progress at:
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/modeling/ART_steel_reefers.html

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., "ed_mines" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

I think the facts that most model railroaders have 2 lifetime supplies of kits and that they ruin many of those kits when they try to build them are mostly responsible for the demise of kits. Better to buy one built up model and enjoy it on the shelf than have 3 more in boxes in the closet.

Now if we had some new blood coming into the hobby they'd be building up collections of boxes in the closet but that's not the case.

It must be tough on new guys to pay big bucks for everything.

Atleast they're potential customers for kits in the closet.

Ed


Re: NP Truss Rod Reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

Col. Chet McCoid photo, Tacoma, WA 2/55, Bob's Photo Service
collection.


Re: NP Truss Rod Reefers

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jun 24, 2010, at 2:20 PM, cobrapsl@... wrote:

Richard,

Thanks for getting me straight. Now, in your vast array of frieght
car photos do you have a picture of one of these reefers in the
late 40's, early 50's?
Unfortunately, I don't. The two photos I have both date from the
late 1930s. I'm attaching one of those, from the Joe Collias
collection, as well as a photo of a nearly identical car but without
the side sill truss rods that was taken at San Francisco in 1941 by
Will Whittaker, as it shows the P/L scheme that was adopted in that
year. I also have a shot of a similar car in the same P/L
scheme,somewhat weathered, in 1953 which I'll attach to another e-mail.

Richard Hendrickson




Re: Green Marked Coal

George Frey <orangetrainman33@...>
 

YES BLACK
 George  F                                                                               




________________________________
From: "asychis@..." <asychis@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, June 24, 2010 9:33:35 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Green Marked Coal

 
OK, in ads for Green Marked Coal, was the coal actually marked green in
obvious some way, and how would this be simulated for a model? Were there
other colors other than green?

Jerry Michels




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Branchline and other box cars offerings

Dave Nelson
 

Gene Green writes:

The thing that puzzles me is why models get sent all the way to China for
assembly. That seems to add about $10.00 to the price of each car.
Couldn't some enterprising, Spanish-speaking model railroader set up a kit
assembly plant in Mexico? Shipment costs would be lower and transit times
shorter.
------------------------

Dave Nelson replies:
The Yuan will likely continue rise against the Dollar over the next decade
-- as will Chinese labor expenses -- making Chinese Manufacturing less of a
good deal. Who knows... it may turn out shipping plastic freight cars from
Mexico (in real freight cars) becomes a viable alternative.

Dave Nelson


Re: demise of kits

Brian Carlson
 

How the heck did I type that? I'm 37, and just received two more HO P2k flat
cars I purchased from the HO Yardsale group. Those lamenting kits need to
check that group out (Type HO Yardsale in Yahoo groups) also a lot of p2k
kits have been appearing on Ebay at reasonable prices lately, kinda odd,
lots of tank cars. Kits are out there. Plus our own Andy Carlson (No
relation) almost always has kits.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@...



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
lnbill
Sent: Thursday, June 24, 2010 9:46 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: demise of kits





I don't know Brian, if you are really one thousand, nine hundred and thirty
seven years old, I am very impressed that not only can you still build these
kit but you are looking into the future.

And you consider yourself relatively young. What a great attitude and
perspective!

Bill Welch


Re: Red BallReefers

Thomas Vanderlip <thomasvanderlip@...>
 

Stan,
You are absolutely right. Darn, not this is going to bug me until I remember..

Thom


Re: Branchline and other box cars offerings

Richard Bale
 

I think Vietnam and India are next in line.
Richard Bale

In a message dated 6/24/2010 10:58:50 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
timboconnor@... writes:





Global trade and containerization has chopped the cost of transport
to the bone. You guys need to get out and watch more trains!

I think it costs about $1000 to send a container from LA to
Chicago... that could be 50000 lbs of trains, say 100,000 models,
or... 1 cent per model, to ship it 2,000 miles by rail! And
ships charge much less than railroads (per mile).

Tim O'

Gene Green writes:

The thing that puzzles me is why models get sent all the way to China for
assembly. That seems to add about $10.00 to the price of each car.
Couldn't some enterprising, Spanish-speaking model railroader set up a kit
assembly plant in Mexico? Shipment costs would be lower and transit times
shorter.
------------------------

Dave Nelson replies:
The Yuan will likely continue rise against the Dollar over the next decade
-- as will Chinese labor expenses -- making Chinese Manufacturing less of
a
good deal. Who knows... it may turn out shipping plastic freight cars from
Mexico (in real freight cars) becomes a viable alternative.

Dave Nelson




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: B&O USRA Box Car Color - 1930's? D&H Caboose Red?

rwitt_2000
 

Jason Sanford wrote:

I am in the process of painting a USRA box car for the B&O circa
1930's. The Westerfield directions mention D&H caboose red is a near
perfect match. Only problem is floquil no longer makes this color.
Anyone have any ideas for a sub? Thanks.
Jason,

I just re-read my Westerfield instructions and they discuss cars painted
"bright red oxide" as the color match for the D&H caboose red. This is
for post-WWII paint and lettering. For the 1930s the B&O used a brown
freight car color with the best example being in a Jack Delano photo of
the Galewood Yard showing the end view of a B&O M-15 wood sheathed car
reasonably clean.

Here is the link to the Shorpy site:
http://www.shorpy.com/node/704?size=_original

The B&O box car is partially in the shadows. It is the rightmost car in
the third row from the bottom of the photo. It is the best example we
have for this color.

I hope this helps.

Bob Witt


Re: N&W Hoppers on Sherman Hill??

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tim O'Connor writes:



Frank Peacock comes through with positive proof of an N&W hopper
on Sherman Hill:

UP Form 2639 shows N&W 78188 ( an H-2 I think) on a coal drag behind 9061E
on 11-23-47 with company coal for Chian. Also Gons or hoppers from MV, MP,
IC, C&IM, Alton, NSS, C&EI, PRR (Big surprise there), SOU, NKP, etc.
FHP (Frank H. Peacock)
MV? Midland Valley? Geeez. How many hoppers did they have? 7? Anyhow, several photos show MP hoppers on Sherman Hill...I'm particularly happy to see them in Laramie cause I kinda like the lettering and slogan. The video Big Boy Collection shows a C&EI hopper in a train heading into Hermosa Tunnel on The Hill and another includes a lone IC hopper...lost no doubt. My favorite photo, however, is found in the large book Union Pacific Railroad in Cheyenne. The photo shows a Challenger led freight on The Hill. Following the Challenger's tender is a lone, lost Lackawanna hopper...no doubt eager to rejoin its brothers and sisters somewhere east of Toledo...

Mike Brock


Re: demise of kits

Bill Welch
 

I don't know Brian, if you are really one thousand, nine hundred and thirty seven years old, I am very impressed that not only can you still build these kit but you are looking into the future.

And you consider yourself relatively young. What a great attitude and perspective!

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., Brian Carlson <prrk41361@...> wrote:

I have 300+ unbuilt kits plastic and resin. I sold two to Armand a while back. Bought some extra's from Clark recently too. I build them as I have time, Yet I am always looking for more to fill in the holes in the fleet. I am also as far as this list is concerned relatively young at 1937.
 
Seriously though this kit vs. RTR  discussion comes up every 6 months or so, (next week the bananna one will start), we should really turn it into a drinking game, and I don't even drink.
Brian carlson

--- On Thu, 6/24/10, rockroll50401 <cepropst@...> wrote:


From: rockroll50401 <cepropst@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: demise of kits
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, June 24, 2010, 2:04 PM


 




At Naperville guys buy arm loads of kits from Martin. Last show a guy was selling his collection. I don't know how many kits there were, but there were a bunch. Maybe more that Martin's inventory?

How many more guys like him are out there with dozens of unbuild kits? Why would they want more?

I might buy something to build at the Nation Train show next month....Got my eye on that F&C little C&O DD. Have documentation of one on my RR with a lumber load. Got two lumber yards on the layout.

Clark "No Kit Stockpile" Propst








[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Branchline and other box cars offerings

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Kits can often be found on eBay. Some are quite old; some fairly recent. Prices seem to reach both extremes; way too cheap and waaaaay too expensive.

Back in 1966 the Exchange at Fort Bliss closed out Northeastern kits for ridiculously low prices. My stash is almost gone. I have seen ads for current-production Northeastern snow plows at some relatively high prices but, at one time, these were state of the art.

Many (most?) of us have assembled Ambroid, Central Valley, LaBelle, Northeastern, Red Ball, Mainline and . . . there must be more than these. With careful assembly and some added details these kits came out looking pretty good and left us with a sense of accomplishment. Some followed a prototype pretty closely while I am not too sure of others.

My personal favorites were the Walthers metal/wood passenger cars (Oops, wrong group!). They were ill-proportioned but fun to build in my opinion.

The thing to notice about the kits mentioned above is that RTR versions would likely have been more expensive because of the difficulty of assembly. On the other hand injection-molded plastic kits go together pretty easily if assembled as intended. Any unskilled non-modeler can be trained to do it in a day. Is the absence of plastic kits really something we should bemoan?

The thing that puzzles me is why models get sent all the way to China for assembly. That seems to add about $10.00 to the price of each car. Couldn't some enterprising, Spanish-speaking model railroader set up a kit assembly plant in Mexico? Shipment costs would be lower and transit times shorter. I think all this adequately attests to the fact that my level of business acumen is near zero.

Gene Green
Always willing to change sides just to keep the argument going.


Re: N&W Hoppers on Sherman Hill??

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

Frank,

           Many thanks for redeeming the PRR modelers with this one on Sherman Hill.

Fred Freitas
I am an SPF, and I am not afraid to say it.




________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, June 24, 2010 3:53:15 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Fwd: N&W Hoppers on Sherman Hill??

 

Frank Peacock comes through with positive proof of an N&W hopper
on Sherman Hill:

UP Form 2639 shows N&W 78188 ( an H-2 I think) on a coal drag behind 9061E
on 11-23-47 with company coal for Chian. Also Gons or hoppers from MV, MP,
IC, C&IM, Alton, NSS, C&EI, PRR (Big surprise there), SOU, NKP, etc.
FHP (Frank H. Peacock)
Tim O'Connor


Green Marked Coal

asychis@...
 

OK, in ads for Green Marked Coal, was the coal actually marked green in
obvious some way, and how would this be simulated for a model? Were there
other colors other than green?

Jerry Michels


Re: Branchline and other box cars offerings

Peter Ness
 

So, basically what I'm hearing is that I'm fortunate to have a hobby
shop's worth of unbuilt kits in my basement because someday (and it
might be sooner rather than later) there won't be any more kits to buy?
I don't see a problem with my strategy <VBG>

I can sympathize with the "no inventory" group looking ahead to less (if
any) selection of offerings, and it could be true that I might be
subject of an untimely (to me, anyway) demise leaving many kits
untouched. A long time ago I used to get "angry" at almost every kit
manufacturer because they discontinued (plastic) or sold out the limited
run (resin) before I picked one up for my stash. Now I accept it's my
own darned fault for not gettin' while the gettin' was good. I've
learned and adapted and I'm fortunate that for the most part, decals
aren't an issue for roadnames I need. I will scream louder when
brakewheels, roofwalks, trucks and brake gear start to dry up than kits
decorated or otherwise.

For those who have been here for a while, lets not forget before resin
and plastic there was bristol board and balsa and bass wood - and they
weren't called "craftsman" kits, just kits. I think if I didn't have a
huge stash to work off I would invest in detail parts and sheet styrene
and make my own "kits". True, it wouldn't be as satisying or reassuring
to gaze at a stash of styrene sheet instead of a bunch of colorful
boxes, but I think I could make it work for me, and with products like
rivet decals and formed grabs and etched roofwalks, they don't have to
be as "crude" in appearance (except for my own ability).

For those who dearly miss the production of new kits, keep an eye on us
with stashes. I'm reasonably sure I won't part with any until someone
pries the Xacto knife from my cold, dead hand, but after that they will
mostly likely find new owners. Maybe there's some sort of symbiotic
relationship between kit stashers and those that lament the demise of
kits that needs some reaffirmation.

Regards,

Peter Ness

(reducing my stash the hard way - one kit at a time)


Re: IC hopper decals

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Jim--

Thanks! I'll have to get a hold of Sunshine.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@...> wrote:

Steve, Sunshine sells an IC twin hopper kit,
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun75.pdf
A little known fact is that Sunshine sells its decals. $3 for single color
decals, $4 for 2-color, $5 for 3-color, including mailing. And you don't
have to wait 6 months or more to get them. Probably just from 30 - 60 days.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com




IC hopper decals

Jim Hayes
 

Steve, Sunshine sells an IC twin hopper kit,
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun75.pdf
A little known fact is that Sunshine sells its decals. $3 for single color
decals, $4 for 2-color, $5 for 3-color, including mailing. And you don't
have to wait 6 months or more to get them. Probably just from 30 - 60 days.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com

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