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Re: Auto Frames Shipped in Gondollas...
Richard Hendrickson
On Jul 11, 2010, at 4:55 PM, wabash2813 wrote:
...specifically the Wabash in the early 50's. Thought this type ofVictor, gondolas in auto frame service were in assigned service and had racks and floor fittings designed specifically for the particular auto or truck frames they carried. Of course, these were changed from time to time as new models of autos and trucks were introduced, and sometimes the gondolas were renumbered so the car clerks could keep track of them, as they had to be returned empty to point of origin, so it helps to have an exact date in mind and check the car numbers against the ORER for that date (auto frame gons had the AAR car type designator GBS). It was common practice when such cars were routed via several railroads to establish pools to which each railroad they traveled over contributed cars more or less in proportion to its share of the route mileage. To know if this was the case on the Wabash, it would be necessary to find out where shipments originated and terminated. It's conceivable that some such operations ran entirely on the WAB and that all of the cars involved would have been WAB cars, but it's also likely that, if frame shipments originated or terminated off line (and in some cases that could have been in the southeast, Texas, or the Pacific Coast, all of which had auto assembly plants after WW II), railroads as far distant as the Santa Fe or Milwaukee Road would have contributed to the pool. Also, of course, the PRR and NYC had sizable numbers of frame gons after WW II, and smaller numbers were operated by other RRs in the upper midwest such as the Grand Trunk Western, Pere Marquette, and Detroit, Toledo & Ironton. Richard Hendrickson
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Help
Joseph Lofland
I need some help.
I am trying to find (remember) the name of an article / author. I believe it also was made into a supplemental publication. I can't find what I had saved. The topic was industrial/ city switching in the streets with tight turns/ crossovers etc. Like down on the water front, I believe it was an MR publication. Not sure. It was done quite a few years ago. Can anyone give me some suggestions to look up? Thanks, Joe Lofland
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Re: C&NW 50 ton Flat 45601-46599
Richard Hendrickson
On Jul 11, 2010, at 4:04 PM, Brian J Carlson wrote:
I have a p2k model of one of the above 50-ton flats that has beenBrian, according to the C&NW diagram book, these cars had AAR self- aligning spring-plankless trucks made by ASF except for ten cars in the 46101-46599 series which were equipped with ASF A-3 "Ride Control" trucks. I just compared the Tahoe Model Works HO scale version of the AAR truck with a photo I have of C&NW 46557, and it's exactly what you want. Richard Hendrickson
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Re: Tichy P&LE Rebuilt Boxcar - need some painting help
Richard Hendrickson
On Jul 11, 2010, at 4:49 PM, Charlie D modeling the Mopac http://
mopac51.tripod wrote: I'm getting close to finishing up the Tichy rebuilt boxcar and willActually the cars were rebuilt ca. 1935 and at that time carried PMcK&Y reporting marks. They were relettered P&LE very shortly afterwards, however, apparently around 1937. The black herald backgrounds were applied to cars repainted in the 1930s and early 1940s, were dropped during World War II, and did not reappear until the shift from RR Roman lettering to Extended Gothic lettering in 1955. I've never seen any evidence that the roofs were painted black on these or any other P&LE cars when repainted, and I'd be surprised if repainted cars got black underframes, either. On the NYC, as on most other RRs, standard practice for repainting older cars seems to have consisted of spraying the entire car mineral brown, including trucks and underframes. Of course, the latter rapidly turned black (or at least grungy dark gray) from a mixture of journal oil and grime. Richard Hendrickson
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Auto Frames Shipped in Gondollas...
...specifically the Wabash in the early 50's. Thought this type of service was common on the Wabash, there seems to be a lack of photo documentation.
What cars would be fair game and would other road's cars be used too? Were these cars usually in captice service? Thanks in advance Victor Baird Fort Wayne, Indiana
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Tichy P&LE Rebuilt Boxcar - need some painting help
Charlie D modeling the Mopac http://mopac51.tripod <trduck@...>
I'm getting close to finishing up the Tichy rebuilt boxcar and will decal as one of the P&LE cars in RPC Volume 17 on page 43 using Jerry Glow's set. P&LE 83759 is pretty weathered with a black NYC herald (re-weight shows 10-47) and since the cars were rebuilt in 1936-37 I'm assuming this car is still in it's original paint when they were rebuilt. The other car P&LE 83821 is lightly weathered and has a re-weight date of 1-54; the herald has no background - so am assuming it's a repaint since 1936-37.
In looking for information on painting NYC boxcars, I came across a thread where Ed Hawkins mentioned a black roof, underframe and Sherwin Williams brown ends and sides on a car built in 1946 - did the P&LE cars also use a similiar standard? Thanks for any help. Charlie
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Re: AC&F Insulated tank cars
Bill, I think most of us agree that foobies (bogus paint & lettering) is
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an important part of recouping an investment -- but it cuts two ways. For example, consider IM putting bogus paint jobs on a model, and then down the road, it wants to do a new car -- and discovers they've already done MOST of the paint schemes that would be correct for the new car on their older, foobie models! The problem is all that product out there already in circulation, eating into potential sales of non-foobie models. Clearly (to me) the best choice is to produce cars with LOTS of correct paint scheme choices, and stick to that... But IM seems unable to do that while Proto2000 has managed quite well. Tim O'Connor
I plead guilty to "not getting it." (I also plead guilty to thinking it is okay for manufacturers to put bogus paint schemes on the products to recoup their investment.)
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Re: Sunshine on Ebay
Pierre
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Hah! Have you seen Bill's tank cars? I'll open the bidding at $150, and I'm sure it will go much higher... I would never imply that building resin kits to the level that we build them (as Tom Madden describes in his bill of materials) is a reasonable business model -- you can make more money working at a McDonald's for minimum wage! The guys who make money turn sow's ears (Athearn and Walthers $10 cars) into silk purses (weathering, graffiti, etc). With practice I think you can at least double that minimum wage! :-) Tim O'Connor
At 7/11/2010 03:40 PM Sunday, you wrote:
It is occasionally remarkable what some people are prepared to pay for an unbuilt Sunshine kit. But the long turn around time from Martin is a major factor. It's that instant gratification thing.
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C&NW 50 ton Flat 45601-46599
I have a p2k model of one of the above 50-ton flats that has been
languishing on the bench since I don't know what trucks these guys had. Any help greatly appreciated. Brian J. Carlson, P.E. Cheektowaga NY prrk41361@...
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Illinois Terminal 8100 Series Cars
Paul Lyons
Group,
I am trying to finish a Sunshine Kit 78.4 and this is one of those times when build by the prototype photo will not completely work. The kit is for one of the 36' Illinois Terminal house cars in the #8100 series. I have a couple of issues that holding me back from finishing the model. First, in the Bob's Photo of the prototype in the PDS sheet, it looks like the reservoir and the AB valve are on the same side of the car with the reservoir mounting under the door. Can anyone confirm this arrangement? Second, the wooden ends are braced by four structural uprights. Part of the assembly is to add the outside "flanges" to these members. Assuming they are structural "Z" members I can look at the cast and know the legs in all four case point toward the center line of the car. However, again, looking at the PDS photo, it appears that the "leg" on the structural member closes the side, points toward the side. Does anyone have an end photo of these cars they can share, or point me to one in a book? As always any and all help is appreciated! Paul Lyons
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AC&F Insulated tank cars
Bill Welch
Ed:
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It is hard to quibble with you if we are talking strictly about actual numbers of prototypes but I will give it a shot. It occurs to me that IM has done a steel milk reefer that has limited numbers and was regionally limited, yet I am sure those who model the territories these cars ran in have appreciated having it. I admit however I don't know if this car turned out to be good business decision. I don't think I would have suggested this prototype if IM did not already have the underframe. As to different dome sizes, dome platforms, etc, I continue to not understand why American manufacturer's cannot exploit the technologies available that allow options. Photoetch would take care of the different platforms. Different sized domes could be designed to fit into one tank cavity with the necessary dome details a part of the dome molding it seems to me. Admittedly, I am impressed and influenced by the manufacturers like "Dragon" that issue various versions of the "standard" M4-M4A1 Sherman tank by mixing and matching parts sprues. I do realize the is a world-wide demand for this kind of product but it does seems like some of their thinking could be adapted to products with a more limited audience. Of course I still also do not understand why this mixing and matching is not used to create a broader range of options for offset twin hoppers. I plead guilty to "not getting it." (I also plead guilty to thinking it is okay for manufacturers to put bogus paint schemes on the products to recoup their investment.) Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:
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Re: Stillwell Trucks
Philip Marcus
--- On Sat, 7/10/10, behillman <chris_hillman@...> wrote:
From: behillman <chris_hillman@...> Subject: [STMFC] Stillwell Trucks To: STMFC@... Date: Saturday, July 10, 2010, 3:23 PM I'm working on building an F&C HO Stillwell combination car with the original Stillwell trucks. Trying to add brake-rigging and shoes to the trucks. F&C says the wheels are 36", but in my scaling some Stillwell photos, the wheels look more like 33". I believe the trucks have been / are, called Arch-Bar Stillwells. Does anyone know of any original Stillwell car drawings, and dwgs. of the trucks and their unique, out-board brake-rodding? Thanks, Paul Hillman Paul, there is a photograph of this truck in the 1928 CBC. In O scale, Car Works imported models of this truck for their Erie suburban cars. The Car Works trucks have 36" wheels.Phil Marcus [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Sunshine on Ebay
Ed Hawkins
On Jul 11, 2010, at 2:01 PM, lnbill wrote:
Recently someone sent me the results on the bidding for one ofBill, An insulated tank could certainly be made for installation on the existing IM Type 27 underframe. The last thing I want to do is throw cold water on the idea, but it should be pointed out these cars weren't real "common" with only about 300 Type 27 insulated 8,000-gallon or 10,000-gallon cars built on the same size underframe offered by InterMountain (36'-2 3/8" over end sills and 25'-8 1/4" truck centers). Of the 300 total cars, 84 were 8,000-gallon and 216 were 10,000-gallon, and most were built in very small groups. When considering other parameters such as dome sizes that varied considerably, jacket design, and different types of dome platforms, identifying an insulated tank with common dimensions and characteristics that would be accurate for multiple paint/lettering schemes is one that yields limited results. My search for the most common insulated tanks for use on the IM underframe came up with 81 single-compartment 10,000-gallon cars including CDLX 1104-1106 and 78 SHPX cars numbered 13116-13193. The most common arrangement for an 8,000-gallon insulated tank with dimensions fitting the IM underframe applied to 30 single-compartment SHPX cars numbered in series 4004-4034 and one Monsanto car. All other choices were significantly fewer in number. Do you think this is enough to convince IM to tool 8K and/or 10K gallon insulated tanks? Of course, there are other cars that might be considered "close enough" by some to justify expanding the list. Regards, Ed Hawkins
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Re: Sunshine on Ebay
Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
GUYZ,
The costs discussed are well within the reason of craftsman's work. How much do custom painters charge to tear down a steam loco, paint, and reassemble, detail and weather? Last one I priced was $325.00; I passed on it. If you are one of those who is terrified of trying the resin market, then by all means Dennis is your man. Some folks will never have 50% of the skills most on this list have built up over the years; that does not mean they cannot participate in the proto side of the hobby. It's your money, spend it however you desire for those signature cars each of us looks for constantly. When my hands give out with age I may well being calling Dennis myself. Why? I have seen his work. Fred Freitas ________________________________ From: Pierre <pierre.oliver@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Sun, July 11, 2010 3:40:36 PM Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine on Ebay It is occasionally remarkable what some people are prepared to pay for an unbuilt Sunshine kit. But the long turn around time from Martin is a major factor. It's that instant gratification thing. I would venture to suggest that one of your built tank car kits would fetch at least $150.00, maybe upwards of $200.00, depending on timing of auction. And for anyone who thinks that that is an out of line price ask yourself how many hours of time go into one of those projects and how much do you earn in the course of your working day. I earn far less an hour building resin kits than I do in the entertainment business, but show biz is not steady work and not near as fun. Pierre Oliver http://elgincarshops.com/ --- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:
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Re: Sunshine on Ebay
Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
It is occasionally remarkable what some people are prepared to pay for an unbuilt Sunshine kit. But the long turn around time from Martin is a major factor. It's that instant gratification thing.
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I would venture to suggest that one of your built tank car kits would fetch at least $150.00, maybe upwards of $200.00, depending on timing of auction. And for anyone who thinks that that is an out of line price ask yourself how many hours of time go into one of those projects and how much do you earn in the course of your working day. I earn far less an hour building resin kits than I do in the entertainment business, but show biz is not steady work and not near as fun. Pierre Oliver http://elgincarshops.com/
--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:
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Re: Sunshine on Ebay
I think tom meant his Resin stuff. I bid on the Wabash car, but not nearly
that high. why? Because, I have plenty of my own kits to build and if I can get a built kit for what I think is a reasonable price I will bid. (of course everyone' s definition of reasonable will be different) I've bid on Bob's stuff before and lost. Brian J. Carlson, P.E. Cheektowaga NY prrk41361@... From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim O'Connor Sent: Sunday, July 11, 2010 10:34 AM To: STMFC@... Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine on Ebay Mostly true, but I lost the bidding on this one: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190412927423> &item=190412927423 <http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190412933632>this is the highest I've ever seen for a Sunshine mini-kit &item=190412933632 Yes, but the seller was Bob Smaus. His stuff always brings high prices.
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Re: Sunshine on Ebay
Dennis Williams
Bill.
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That price was unbelievable. I have 1 with a price tag on the box of $28.95. Dennis Williams/ Owner www.resinbuilders4u.com
--- On Sun, 7/11/10, lnbill <fgexbill@...> wrote:
From: lnbill <fgexbill@...> Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine on Ebay To: STMFC@... Date: Sunday, July 11, 2010, 12:01 PM Recently someone sent me the results on the bidding for one of Sunshine's AC&F insulated tank car kits. Note I said kit, as in unbuilt. The price was well over $200. (I built two of these, wonder what they would bring?) I should add that every time I see the IM folks at one of the prototype meets I remind them all they need to do is cut a tool for this insulated tank and they would have a whole new model with many colourful (eye-candy) schemes. Bill Welch --- In STMFC@..., Dennis Williams <pennsy6200@...> wrote:
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Sunshine on Ebay
pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
this is the highest I've ever seen for a Sunshine mini-kitAmong the multitude of almost-finished projects on my workbench is a Sunshine mini-kit for converting an IM 10'-6" IH boxcar into a 1942 MoP ACF car. So far the project has absorbed the mini-kit, one IM undec boxcar kit, one RC/IMWX roof, 6 RC bracket grabs, 4 A-Line sill steps, 1 Tichy AB brake set, 4 Tichy turnbuckles (for brake rod clevises - clevii?), 1 Kadee Apex roof walk, 2 Hi-Tech Details air hose assemblies, 4 scratchbuilt ladders and 1 pair Accumate scale couplers. Trucks (with semi-scale wheelsets), brake wheel and brake step, and painting & lettering still to come. Yes, the mini-kit wasn't all that expensive, but add in all the other stuff, and an assembly time just as great as for a full resin kit, and a $100-plus price tag seems more than reasonable. Tom Madden
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Re: Sunshine on Ebay
Bill Welch
Recently someone sent me the results on the bidding for one of Sunshine's AC&F insulated tank car kits. Note I said kit, as in unbuilt. The price was well over $200. (I built two of these, wonder what they would bring?)
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I should add that every time I see the IM folks at one of the prototype meets I remind them all they need to do is cut a tool for this insulated tank and they would have a whole new model with many colourful (eye-candy) schemes. Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@..., Dennis Williams <pennsy6200@...> wrote:
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Re: Sunshine on Ebay
Dennis Williams
Pierre.
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I would have to agree with you on the price. I followed the prices for a year before I came up with mine. Some are out there, Vinager tank car, Pickle car for instance. All in what people are willing to pay. Look at the brass market, now that is crazy!! Dennis Williams www.resinbuilders4u.com
--- On Sun, 7/11/10, Pierre <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:
From: Pierre <pierre.oliver@...> Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sunshine on Ebay To: STMFC@... Date: Sunday, July 11, 2010, 7:19 AM But very well executed by a very talented modeler. That mini-kit can represent the same amount of time to complete as a conventional resin kit, so I'm not sure what a "reasonable" price might have been. I think that selling price is well within line for the item. Pierre Oliver --- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:
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