Date   

Re: Model Railroad Magazine index is no more

pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

The original index was created by a fellow who brought his Apple II to
train shows and would print out searches for you. I remember buying two
printouts at the 1991 NMRA show for GN and SP articles. Then he later
sold his software + indexes for MS-DOS -- I bought those too and still
have the floppies!
Tim, that sounds like Data Train of Texas, and I think the seller was Larry Puckett. I too bought that database at the 1991 Denver NMRA National. But I think someone else was the originator of the database Kalmbach later bought, because I abandoned Data Train and stopped buying the annual suppliments when the other one became available online for free.

When it comes right down to it, the members of this group, and others like it, are excellent guides/indexes to what's out there, and where to find it. In some instances even better than a structured database, because we can understand poorly-defined search terms, like "the article was in an issue that had a red Swift reefer on the cover", or "the author later wrote an article on brake cylinder head gaskets". The recent (successful) search for a specific article on industrial switching is a case in point.

Tom Madden


Re: Auto frames in gons

water.kresse@...
 

Were are all these photos you are talking about being posted . . . . in a photo album in our group?  My server has deleted most links and won't let me into Shorpe.



We had A.O. Smith in Milwaukee, Wis, Dana-Parish in Reading, PA, and Budd -location unknown (they had stamping plants in Detroit).  I started working for GM in the early-Summer of 1969.



I've seen pix of Cadillac AO Smith frames going in PM gons (angular) and later horizontal in flats (53 or 56 ft 50/70-ton ) to their Detroit Front Street plant on the SW side of Detroit (looping back up via the Walbash trackage with PM/C&O switcher out of the Rougemere Yard).  By the time I started to work for GM in their advanced body group frames were being shipped horizonally on longer 85-89 ft TTX flats.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve" <salotti.steve@gmail.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 13, 2010 9:58:13 PM
Subject: [STMFC] RE: Auto frames in gons

Here's a little more information (at least on the East Coast) about gons.  I model the NYS&W in 1949.  There was a large Ford assembly plant in Edgewater(the siding inside this plant has been reported to have held 27 cars).  Included in my collection of paper about the railroad are conductors wheel reports for two days in 1954, April 13th and 14th.  There are several trains from Passaic Junction (Erie interchange) to WS, little Ferry Yard.  Noted among the long list of cars are the following Wabash gons:
4/12/'54 Train 1: cars 12592, 12501 with the report listing them as "parts".
Train 2: cars 12547& 12542, called auto parts.

4/13/54 Train 1 all listed as empties cars 12542, 12518, 12547, & 12580.  Note that 2 cars were emptied over night and now are going back for another load.

The 1953 ORER lists these cars as 52' 6" steel gons with wood floors and drop ends.  My guess would be these cars were fitted with racks to load frames.  Now does that mean I have to take apart the old style pile of frames I made and add racks?  Anyone have a photo of these cars in such service?

Steve



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Model Railroad Magazine index is no more

Tim O'Connor
 

Charlie

Why does it have to be non-profit? If the information is so valuable,
why wouldn't people be willing to pay a small fee to use it? You're
talking about potentially thousands of hours of work (to add photo or
facsimile images and spend all the time effort & money for permission
to do that).

The original index was created by a fellow who brought his Apple II to
train shows and would print out searches for you. I remember buying two
printouts at the 1991 NMRA show for GN and SP articles. Then he later
sold his software + indexes for MS-DOS -- I bought those too and still
have the floppies!

Tim O'Connor

I know that is a very tall order but if a non-profit group took over the index at least the filling out of the index and correction of the errors (and bringing it forward to current issues) could be done by splitting up the work among many people. As magazines were finally digitized the index could be applied to make the images searchable.

There is a lot of valuable material in the old magazines but few have access to them. I am trying to complete my collection (I have MR complete back to about 1945) but finding old issues at reasonable prices is hit or miss. Finding old Railroad Model Craftsman and other titles is even more difficult.

Charlie Vlk


Re: Model Railroad Magazine index is no more

Charlie Vlk
 

Imperfect as it was, the index was an invalubable resource.

The ideal would be a ProQuest style completely searchable index with pdf images of all the MR magazines... including content of photos.
For example, if there was an issue of Trains magazine that had a shot on page 83 of the March, 1945 issue of a PRR J with a freight train in the background, the cars that were visible in the photo would also be indexed as well as the locomotive, location of the photo, etc....

I know that is a very tall order but if a non-profit group took over the index at least the filling out of the index and correction of the errors (and bringing it forward to current issues) could be done by splitting up the work among many people. As magazines were finally digitized the index could be applied to make the images searchable.

There is a lot of valuable material in the old magazines but few have access to them. I am trying to complete my collection (I have MR complete back to about 1945) but finding old issues at reasonable prices is hit or miss. Finding old Railroad Model Craftsman and other titles is even more difficult.

Charlie Vlk


Re: Auto Frames Shipped in Gondollas...

Andy Laurent
 

Speaking of auto frames and the Wabash...Studebaker's plant in South Bend on the NJI&I received frames from Budd in Ohio (Cleveland, maybe?) through the time-span of this list. The Studebaker National Museum has several photos of Wabash and NYC 40' gondolas with full frame loads (some of them shifted/damaged, hence the company photo).

Andy L.
South Bend, IN

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "wabash2813" <reporterllc@...> wrote:

GM!? The Wabash was dedicated to the Ford Motor Company. <G> As an aside, it would be interesting to see who the frame suppliers were for Ford. But it seems I have seen evidence of frames headed west out of the Detroit area. Did Ford make them also?

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "switchengines" <jrs060@> wrote:
You will most commonly see the cars assign to the A.O. Smith
Company at Milwaukee, Wis., they manufactured most, if not all, of the frames for > General Motors.


Re: Sunshine 69.4 - ATSF Bx-58

Raymond Young
 

Hello,

One side photo in Santa Fe Freight in Color...the Series by Stephen Priest and
Thomas Chenoweth on page 31 appears to be painted in mineral brown, including
the roof.  I would infer the ends are also mineral brown from the parts in
view.  Ladders are not clear to my eyes.

Regards,
Virgil Young
Amarillo, TX




________________________________
From: bnpmodeler <bnchmark@embarqmail.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wed, July 14, 2010 9:21:06 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Sunshine 69.4 - ATSF Bx-58

 
Greetings all;

I am currently building a Sunshine kit #69.4 ATSF Bx-58 boxcar for a friend. I
have tried the search function here on the group to see if any discussion has
occurred regarding these cars, but have not had any luck. I was hoping to find
some pointers to photos for reference. If anyone can help out, especially with a
B-end view showing the end ladder (the kit instructions don't provide any
indication of exact length of the ladder, only that it was "cut down to 7
rungs").

Also, I would like to confirm that the roof was black, the carlines were black,
and the running board was NOT black (unpainted wood or weathered Mineral red?).

Were the ends black (I think not)?

Any insight would be most appreciated.

Jim Harr
Stella Scale Models
www.stellascalemodels.com




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ADMIN: PHOTOS

Mike Brock <brockm@...>
 

Tony Thompson says,

Um, Mike, that would be "copyright."
You are getting slower as you get older. It took Jeff Aley only 341 seconds...by my count...to enlighten me. Actually, Al Brown did it faster than that...and with a bit more class than Jeff, merely sending a message with the correct "copyright" in place.

However, not arguing that I don't need all the help I can get...thinks.

Mike Brock


Sunshine 69.4 - ATSF Bx-58

bnpmodeler
 

Greetings all;

I am currently building a Sunshine kit #69.4 ATSF Bx-58 boxcar for a friend. I have tried the search function here on the group to see if any discussion has occurred regarding these cars, but have not had any luck. I was hoping to find some pointers to photos for reference. If anyone can help out, especially with a B-end view showing the end ladder (the kit instructions don't provide any indication of exact length of the ladder, only that it was "cut down to 7 rungs").

Also, I would like to confirm that the roof was black, the carlines were black, and the running board was NOT black (unpainted wood or weathered Mineral red?).

Were the ends black (I think not)?

Any insight would be most appreciated.

Jim Harr
Stella Scale Models
www.stellascalemodels.com


Re: Model Railroad Magazine index is no more

twsicrr
 

Here is an e-mail I sent to Kalmbach Publishing Co. encouraging them to transfer ownership (and responsibility) for the magazine index to some non-profit group. I think the magazine web-site is among the best places to go for information about steam era freight cars as well as many other items and hope it can be transferred to a new venue. Here is the e-mail:

Gentlemen:

I note with disappointment your decision to remove the magazine index from your web-site. While I understand your reason for removing the index, it occurs to me that that someone or some other organization, perhaps, a volunteer-based organization, might be willing to maintain the index on another venue.

Would Kalmbach Publishing entertain the thought of donating the index -- as it presently exists -- to a non-profit group that would maintain it on the web.

Even if viruses are a threat, I believe that some of us would take the risk for there is really no other alternative to finding relevant articles in the magazines. It would seem the NMRA or the California Railroad Museum might be logical choices -- but then again, they may have no interest.

If Kalmabach is unable to make such a transfer (or if no non-profit recipient is willing to take it over) would Kalmbach nevertheless consider offering a CD or DVD of the index, as it presently exists, for sale to your readers in a form so that purchasers could have the archive through the current date?

Thank you for considering this request.

Tom Sinks
126 Connally Street
Black Mountain, NC 28711


Re: More questions on GN Boxcar underframe painting and finishing

Bruce Smith
 

On Jul 14, 2010, at 4:43 AM, Staffan Ehnbom wrote:
The next question is what happened, when a car was repainted. Would the floor boards just be hit by overspray from when the steel members were repainted or would the painter give the floor boards an even coat?
Staffan,

I can document that a 1950s era repainting of a PRR X31A boxcar had the undersides of the floor evenly coated with Freight Car Color since I was given a floor board. This was clearly done after installation of the boards, as the areas covered by the stringers was not painted, and neither was the interior side of the board.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Model Railroad Magazine index is no more

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "gn3397" <heninger@...> wrote:

Group,
This has been addressed on other lists, but not here. The Model Railroad Magazine Index has been taken down off the Model Railroader website. It is a shame, too, as I found it a very useful reference. Here is a link to the site, so you can see for yourself:

http://index.mrmag.com

Sincerely,
Bob Heninger
Iowa City, IA
Since Kalmbach Publishing owns both the search software and database, but apparently sees no value in it, I wonder if they would be willing to donate it to some not-for-profit organization, who could continue to update it and make it available for the good of the hobby. Perhaps the NMRA A.C. Kalmbach Memorial Library could be the recipient?

Interestingly, we are all going to be seeing the folks at the Kalmbach booth at the National Train Show later this week. Couldn't hurt to suggest it.

Dennis


Re: ADMIN: PHOTOS

Sigpress <thompson@...>
 

Um, Mike, that would be "copyright."
Tony Thompson

Sent from my iPod

On Jul 12, 2010, at 9:56 AM, "Mike Brock" <brockm@brevard.net> wrote:

Al Brown writes:

"I'm uploading a photo of this car to a new album called "UTLX X-3" in the
photo section, currently awaiting our moderator's approval."

Photos uploaded to the photo section are required by Yahoogroups [ and the
law ] to have their copywrite owned by the person uploading the photo. In
the past Yahoogroups would notify the group moderator/owner [ Jeff Aley and
myself ] that a photo was awaiting approval for placement in the photo
section. Approval is required to ascertain that the person uploading the
photo owns copywrite. As far as I can tell, unknown to me, notification to
Jeff and I by Yahoo ceased at some time later than March 18 of this year and
prior to May. Hence, I was not aware of Al's photo [ I believe I have held
his tank car in my hand so, obviously, I have no doubt that he owns
copywrite to the photo ] and several other photos awaiting approval. I have
now approved those that appear to not have a copywrite issue. Members that
have photos still pending should notify me that they own copywrite.

Since it appears that Yahoo will not be notifying Jeff and I that a photo is
awaiting approval, please send us a message indicating such at the address:

STMFC-owner@yahoogroups.com

I realize that some might find copywrite issues to be both bothersome and a
detraction but it is the law of the land.

Thanks

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Model Railroad Magazine index is no more

thetrainman00 <thetrainman00@...>
 

I agree with Bob, what a shame and a useful reference is now part of history.

Happy Model Railroading,
Jim Krapf
Modeling the CNJ L&S Div from Treichlers to Mauch Chunk during October 1968


Re: More questions on GN Boxcar underframe painting and finishing

Staffan Ehnbom <staffan.ehnbom@...>
 

Steve and Bob,

It wasn't until a couple of years ago that I realized that freight car wood floors were left unpainted some of the time (all the time?). Apparently the "underbody color" mentioned in painting instructions was only applied to the metal members of new cars and before the floor boards were put in place. I'm not aware of seeing any info as to GN practices in this regard. When I get back to my info I will try and go through stuff that might give an indication like drawings or construction photos.

The next question is what happened, when a car was repainted. Would the floor boards just be hit by overspray from when the steel members were repainted or would the painter give the floor boards an even coat?

Another question: How were early wood underframe cars painted? Did wood sills and cross members recieve paint but were floor boards left unpainted?

Questions like these might lead to solutions like not haveing any brand new cars on the layout and painting all underbodies a grimy grayish-brownish-blackish dirt color!

Staffan Ehnbom

----- Original Message -----
From: gn3397
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 6:18 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: More questions on GN Boxcar underframe painting and finishing



Steve,
I hope Staffan will join in here, but I can share some information that I have.

I have a copy of an article from Railway Age, Vol. 117, No. 6, dated August 5, 1944, entitled "Great Northern Builds Plywood Cars in Company Shops". It details the construction of the first 1,000 plywood boxcars built by the GN (44025-44999 and 2501-2524 series) in 1944. The article states the floor was 1 3/4 inch TIG boards, sprayed with a clear sealer on the interior surface (as was the plywood lining of the sides, ends, and roof of these cars). It makes no mention of the undersurface of the floorboards, but I suspect they were left untreated, as the article goes to great lengths to describe the preparation, sealing, and painting of the wood panels used in these cars.

I have no further information specific to GN cars, but there is a good photo of a Reading boxcar being built in a ACF plant in one of the early RP Cycs that shows unpainted, untreated undersurfaces of floorboards. Also, the only other steam era boxcar I have had the pleasure of examining up close is a Soo Line sawtooth boxcar, and it didn't have a trace of paint or coating on the undersurface of the floorboards.

I suspect most new boxcars in the steam era had unpainted wood floorboards, but Jack Spencer and Ted Culotta are the only guys I know of who have modeled this feature.

I hope this information is somewhat helpful.

Sincerely,
Bob Heninger
Iowa City, IA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Haas" <Goatfisher2@...> wrote:
>
> In a conversation back in April of this year under the heading "GN USRA DS
> Box Cars" Staffan Ehnbom made the following comments on the under frame
> painting on the subject cars:
>
> "For a 1950 model mineral red would be correct for the entire car including
> roof ends and under frame."
>
> And
>
> "My comment was a bit brief and addressing only cars repainted after 1948."
>
>
> I took Staffan's comments to apply to these cars as re-painted, but this
> raised a couple of questions on GN boxcar under frame color in my mind:
>
> As originally built, wouldn't the under frame and appliances have been black
> or red oxide, but the under side of the floor left natural until the first
> repainting?
> What would the underside of these cars looked like prior to their first
> repainting.
> What would newer GN cars (built 48-53 or so - I'm thinking of the St. Cloud
> built 12 panel cars specifically) have for under frame and underside of
> flooring appear like circa 54?
>
> I have Staffan's 85 Mainline Modeler article and Duane Buck's "ding" article
> from 98 - neither mentions the original color/finish of the underside of the
> flooring material. Duane, in his modeling article does paint the undersides
> either all mineral red or all black, but he models a bit later than 54 and
> these cars would have been repainted by the time of his modeling.
>
> There was another pair of articles in later issues of MM, but those are
> packed away deep in the garage following a recent move.
>
> Any guidance?
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Steve Haas
> Snoqualmie, WA
>
>
>
>
>


Re: More questions on GN Boxcar underframe painting and finishing

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

Steve,
I hope Staffan will join in here, but I can share some information that I have.

I have a copy of an article from Railway Age, Vol. 117, No. 6, dated August 5, 1944, entitled "Great Northern Builds Plywood Cars in Company Shops". It details the construction of the first 1,000 plywood boxcars built by the GN (44025-44999 and 2501-2524 series) in 1944. The article states the floor was 1 3/4 inch TIG boards, sprayed with a clear sealer on the interior surface (as was the plywood lining of the sides, ends, and roof of these cars). It makes no mention of the undersurface of the floorboards, but I suspect they were left untreated, as the article goes to great lengths to describe the preparation, sealing, and painting of the wood panels used in these cars.

I have no further information specific to GN cars, but there is a good photo of a Reading boxcar being built in a ACF plant in one of the early RP Cycs that shows unpainted, untreated undersurfaces of floorboards. Also, the only other steam era boxcar I have had the pleasure of examining up close is a Soo Line sawtooth boxcar, and it didn't have a trace of paint or coating on the undersurface of the floorboards.

I suspect most new boxcars in the steam era had unpainted wood floorboards, but Jack Spencer and Ted Culotta are the only guys I know of who have modeled this feature.

I hope this information is somewhat helpful.

Sincerely,
Bob Heninger
Iowa City, IA

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Steve Haas" <Goatfisher2@...> wrote:

In a conversation back in April of this year under the heading "GN USRA DS
Box Cars" Staffan Ehnbom made the following comments on the under frame
painting on the subject cars:

"For a 1950 model mineral red would be correct for the entire car including
roof ends and under frame."

And

"My comment was a bit brief and addressing only cars repainted after 1948."


I took Staffan's comments to apply to these cars as re-painted, but this
raised a couple of questions on GN boxcar under frame color in my mind:

As originally built, wouldn't the under frame and appliances have been black
or red oxide, but the under side of the floor left natural until the first
repainting?
What would the underside of these cars looked like prior to their first
repainting.
What would newer GN cars (built 48-53 or so - I'm thinking of the St. Cloud
built 12 panel cars specifically) have for under frame and underside of
flooring appear like circa 54?

I have Staffan's 85 Mainline Modeler article and Duane Buck's "ding" article
from 98 - neither mentions the original color/finish of the underside of the
flooring material. Duane, in his modeling article does paint the undersides
either all mineral red or all black, but he models a bit later than 54 and
these cars would have been repainted by the time of his modeling.

There was another pair of articles in later issues of MM, but those are
packed away deep in the garage following a recent move.

Any guidance?


Best regards,

Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Model Railroad Magazine index is no more

gn3397 <heninger@...>
 

Group,
This has been addressed on other lists, but not here. The Model Railroad Magazine Index has been taken down off the Model Railroader website. It is a shame, too, as I found it a very useful reference. Here is a link to the site, so you can see for yourself:

http://index.mrmag.com

Sincerely,
Bob Heninger
Iowa City, IA


Re: Auto frames in gons

Steve Salotti
 

Here's a little more information (at least on the East Coast) about gons. I model the NYS&W in 1949. There was a large Ford assembly plant in Edgewater(the siding inside this plant has been reported to have held 27 cars). Included in my collection of paper about the railroad are conductors wheel reports for two days in 1954, April 13th and 14th. There are several trains from Passaic Junction (Erie interchange) to WS, little Ferry Yard. Noted among the long list of cars are the following Wabash gons:
4/12/'54 Train 1: cars 12592, 12501 with the report listing them as "parts".
Train 2: cars 12547& 12542, called auto parts.

4/13/54 Train 1 all listed as empties cars 12542, 12518, 12547, & 12580. Note that 2 cars were emptied over night and now are going back for another load.

The 1953 ORER lists these cars as 52' 6" steel gons with wood floors and drop ends. My guess would be these cars were fitted with racks to load frames. Now does that mean I have to take apart the old style pile of frames I made and add racks? Anyone have a photo of these cars in such service?

Steve


Re: Tichy P&LE Rebuilt Boxcar - need some painting help

David Sieber
 

Larry,
Appreciate your reply; I'd figured as much. Given the size of the P&LE collection, it's great that even 3% of those images are online, but we can always hope that digitizing is an ongoing project. Then again, the Pitt Archives have many more collections, doubtless all deserving of digitization, so we'll just have to wait patiently and be grateful for all that they've been able to provide for us so far.
Thanks again, Dave Sieber, Reno NV

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kline <lndkline@...> wrote:

Dave,

Yes, I viewed hard copy photos here in Pittsburgh that aren't online. From the Pitt Archives web site at:
http://digital.library.pitt.edu/images/pittsburgh/plerr.html
The complete P&LE collection, held by the Archives Service Center (ASC) at the University of Pittsburgh, comprises 16,400 images taken between 1883 and 1970.

A reasonably complete list of the images in the P&LE collection is available online at:
http://ple.dementia.org/research/research.html

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

Dave Sieber wrote:
--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kline <lndkline@> wrote:
"There are three B&W photos of newly rebuilt car 83400 in the University of Pittsburgh Archives P&LE collection ..."

Larry,
I went through all 522 photos in the Pitt Archives online P&LE collection - really great photos, but no P&LE (or PMcK&Y) 83400 pix. That was after searching both the P&LE collection and the full online archives for "83400," "box" (car), etc. Did you view the hard copy photos there in Pittsburgh and those photos aren't yet online, or am I searching the wrong site? Any URL to suggest?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Tichy P&LE Rebuilt Boxcar - need some painting help

Larry Kline
 

Dave,

Yes, I viewed hard copy photos here in Pittsburgh that aren't online. From the Pitt Archives web site at:
http://digital.library.pitt.edu/images/pittsburgh/plerr.html
The complete P&LE collection, held by the Archives Service Center (ASC) at the University of Pittsburgh, comprises 16,400 images taken between 1883 and 1970.

A reasonably complete list of the images in the P&LE collection is available online at:
http://ple.dementia.org/research/research.html

Larry Kline
Pittsburgh, PA

Dave Sieber wrote:

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Larry Kline <lndkline@...> wrote:
"There are three B&W photos of newly rebuilt car 83400 in the University of
Pittsburgh Archives P&LE collection ..."

Larry,
I went through all 522 photos in the Pitt Archives online P&LE collection -
really great photos, but no P&LE (or PMcK&Y) 83400 pix. That was after
searching both the P&LE collection and the full online archives for "83400,"
"box" (car), etc. Did you view the hard copy photos there in Pittsburgh and
those photos aren't yet online, or am I searching the wrong site? Any URL to
suggest?


More questions on GN Boxcar underframe painting and finishing

Steve Haas
 

In a conversation back in April of this year under the heading "GN USRA DS
Box Cars" Staffan Ehnbom made the following comments on the under frame
painting on the subject cars:

"For a 1950 model mineral red would be correct for the entire car including
roof ends and under frame."

And

"My comment was a bit brief and addressing only cars repainted after 1948."


I took Staffan's comments to apply to these cars as re-painted, but this
raised a couple of questions on GN boxcar under frame color in my mind:

As originally built, wouldn't the under frame and appliances have been black
or red oxide, but the under side of the floor left natural until the first
repainting?
What would the underside of these cars looked like prior to their first
repainting.
What would newer GN cars (built 48-53 or so - I'm thinking of the St. Cloud
built 12 panel cars specifically) have for under frame and underside of
flooring appear like circa 54?

I have Staffan's 85 Mainline Modeler article and Duane Buck's "ding" article
from 98 - neither mentions the original color/finish of the underside of the
flooring material. Duane, in his modeling article does paint the undersides
either all mineral red or all black, but he models a bit later than 54 and
these cars would have been repainted by the time of his modeling.

There was another pair of articles in later issues of MM, but those are
packed away deep in the garage following a recent move.

Any guidance?


Best regards,

Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA

97161 - 97180 of 188733