Date   

Re: new decal for Atlas tankcar

SUVCWORR@...
 

The artwork shows a home of Oxford, PA which is in Chester County, PA. Chester County is due west of Philadephia sharing a common border with Philadelphia County. This may help track down the locality in which this car operated.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: jerryglow@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2010 11:59 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: new decal for Atlas tankcar


no personal knowledge. It was done at a customer request with his supplied data.
opefully he or someone can chime in on this one.
Jerry Glow
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Nice looking car. Any ideas on what routes it would have travelled from
loading to unloading point? I assume this car was leased to a distributor
rather than to a refiner.

Tim O'Connor


At 7/15/2010 06:22 AM Thursday, you wrote:
>At the request of a customer and with supplied builder photos, I've made a
ew decal set for the Atlas LPG tankcar prototype which was built in 1947
utting it in the "wheelhouse" of this group. See:
>http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/samples/GOPX.jpg
>
>Jerry Glow
>http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals



-----------------------------------
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Individual Email | Traditional
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Re: GATX Lettering, c. 1950

bob_karig <karig@...>
 

The removal of the lines above and below the reporting marks was approved by letter ballot to take effect on March 1, 1957.

Bob Karig


Re: GATX Lettering, c. 1950

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 15, 2010, at 9:38 AM, John Golden wrote:

Gentlemen,

I'm ready to decal an Overland 8k GATX tank car (basicallythe WWI-
era car), and need some help/advice on lettering.

I've noticed in photos--Ted's Tank Car handbook in particular--that
early GATX lettering had a line above and below the GATX reporting
marks. I've also noticed that the lines were eliminated in the
mid-50s. Lettering specifics for GATX cars are not covered in this
or other documents. If I model 1950, what's the appropriate
reporting mark scheme? Lines or no lines?
John, I don't have an exact date but it was about 1945, as best I can
determine from photographic evidence. So the answer depends on how
much you want to weather your model. In 1950, there were still a
bunch of GATX cars around with the lines above and below the
reporting marks and numbers, but they were more less dirty and
weathered. To represent a recently repainted car, you should omit
the lines.

I ordered the Champ GATX decals and there are no lines above/below
the reporting marks in the set. If lines are appropriate for my
era, would anyone know where to get the appropriate decals?
The best GATX decals I know are made by STMFC list member Al Ferguson
in Canada (Black Cat Decals). They're based on photos in my
collection and include a variety of correct dimensional and tank test
data, as well as having reporting marks and number both with and
without lines. The e-mail I have for Al is <ajfergus@...>.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Atlas HO ICC-105 tank car...

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 15, 2010, at 10:32 AM, Steve Lucas wrote:

Seems to me that this car could be a good start for models of
ICC-104 cars if a new dome is mounted on the tank.

Your thoughts?
The tanks are too large - 11,000 gal., a size that was seldom used
for ICC-104 cars, most of which were 8,000 or 10,000 gal.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Sunshine 69.4 - ATSF Bx-58

bnpmodeler
 

Tom, this is great info, thank you so much. And thanks also to everyone else who contributed, it is greatly appreciated.

Jim Harr
Stella Scale Models
www.stellascalemodels.com

--- In STMFC@..., <tmolsen@...> wrote:

Jim,

There are two "B" end photos of composite BX-58's on page 106 of John C. Dobyne III's Santa Fe Boxcars 1869-1953, a Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society publication.

One car is numbered 32485 and the other is numbered 32434. The first car is in sawdust service and has roof hatches for easy loading, while the other is a true single door boxcar. Both have 7-5-5 Corrugated doors with flat steel extensions to make up the height difference. Both have second hand radial roofs.

The end ladder has seven rungs. The bottom of the ladder stiles begin above the first bottom corrugation of the car end. There is a riveted steel reinforcing strip that goes across the top of the car end with another which appears to be the upper riveted eave strip (which wraps around the edge of the car side at the end corners) above it that partially overlays the first. The top of the curved ladder stiles end at the point where the top strip overlays the lower one. The running board end supports are riveted to the top riveted eave strip.

The cars are equipped with AB brakes and have Ajax hand brake gear. The trucks are Andrews cast sideframe with bolted journals. The retainer valve pipe runs up the end of the car just to the right of the ladder and at the base of the Ajax brake gear housing curves to the right around the housing with the retainer valve attaching to the car end just above the top riveted eave strip between the gear case and the running board left support strip. The brakeman's step is located by the 2nd rung of the ladder from the top (between the 5th and 6th end rib from the top) of the car.

According to Mr. Dobyne's book, cars were painted mineral brown with metal roofs (after 1931) coated with black car cement with slate granules sprinkled in it to provide a non-slip surface. He also states that outside wood roofs continued to be painted mineral brown. He added that in or about 1951 the railroad began using a brown car cement on roofs or spraying them with mineral brown paint and that by the late 1950s the majority of car roofs would have been brown.

I hope that this information helps. The SFRH&MS has published a number of very well executed books on freight rolling stock (shameless plug) and are a must if you are building Santa Fe freight rolling stock.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...


Re: GATX Lettering, c. 1950

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

John, 



I believe the line above and below the reporting marks was recommended, but not required, practice by the AAR or ICC.



In reviewing numerous stenciling diagrams of steam era freight cars in the N&WHS archives collection, as well as the corresponding notes in the revision books, the recommended use of the lines was removed in the early 1950s.



My guess is that you should use the lines above and below the reporting marks for your era.



Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Golden" <golden1014@...>
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:38:27 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] GATX Lettering, c. 1950

 




Gentlemen,
 
I'm ready to decal an Overland 8k GATX tank car (basicallythe WWI-era car), and need some help/advice on lettering. 
 
I've noticed in photos--Ted's Tank Car handbook in particular--that early GATX lettering had a line above and below the GATX reporting marks.  I've also noticed that the lines were eliminated in the mid-50s.  Lettering specifics for GATX cars are not covered in this or other documents.  If I model 1950, what's the appropriate reporting mark scheme?  Lines or no lines? 
 
I ordered the Champ GATX decals and there are no lines above/below the reporting marks in the set.  If lines are appropriate for my era, would anyone know where to get the appropriate decals?
 
Thank You!
 
John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: More questions on GN Boxcar underframe painting and finishing

al_brown03
 

Bruce, That will be really cool!

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


On Jul 15, 2010, at 12:00 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


<snip>

Tim O'Connor
Tim,

That 1950s era X31A floorboard I mentioned to Staffan? I have sliced
it into thin wafers. Next step, make boards out of it... for... you
guessed it, an HO scale PRR X31A! Given the trouble I am going to to
make this floor, you can bet that this particular car will have its
doors OPEN! <VBG>

Regards
Bruce


Re: Model Railroad Magazine index is no more

Tim O'Connor
 

Pieter, we've already discussed such a group effort many times.
We even started a Yahoo group with the idea of creating a WIKI
web site for freight car modeling information. It's a great idea
but there are few people with the expertise who are not already
very busy with their own lives and hobby projects -- and people
may not realize that Wikipedia works so well because it is
strongly moderated by paid staff! Fact checking is expensive!
To say nothing of web sites, servers, etc.

Tim O'Connor



With the moderator's kind indulgence:

Clearly the index now belongs to Kalmbach and they can give or sell it to whomever they chose or just kill it if that is their preference. From comments on several lists as well as on the MR site forum it appears the original database has some issues in terms of maintainability and compatibility with other forms. The one positive is that the removal of the existing free index does open the way for a possibly better follow-on.

Before this issue disappears and/or is ruled off-topic, let me propose an alternative. For someone or a small group to duplicate the work that went into the original would be a tremendous task. Yet there are, at a minimum, hundreds of "interested" people in the groups discussing this with at least some time and resources at their disposal.

Suppose we tap all that and start from scratch. Surely among those who will miss this tool are folks with database expertise, researchers or others with a good idea of what is needed for such a database. A small core group could identify the best available free or shareware database (there are a number of them out there), hash out the design of the database with fields, key words, etc. Prepare a data entry form and a search form.


Once that is done, the fun could begin! Allow contributors to "register" and be verified by supplying some personal information. This could be done through a web site or even a Yahoo group. Once approved, the contributor would select from the available data blocks identified as needed for the index. Lets suppose the start is single year blocks of one of the major magazines (initially MR, RMC and MM). The contributor is assigned his selected block, a deadline (maybe 30 days), and given access to download an empty database, a "sample" database containing a few records showing how the data should be
entered, and the data entry form.

Once the contributor sends in his database filled with the required data it will be verified (at least that it is not seriously corrupted or containing "spam" elements). Once a minimum "phase 1" level of data is combined; say the last 20 years of MR, RMC and MM; the first "issue" of the index is made available to the contributors. They will essentially quality check the initial work. Completing an assigned data entry block would get the contributor the current release plus a certain number of "free" updates of the database. Additional blocks would accrue additional updates. Once the database reached a defined "phase" of both quantity and quality it would be made available to non-contributors for a nominal fee, either as a download, CD or using a web site (like the old index) depending on the resources of the group. As the index developed, more magazines would be added to the "needed" list for contributors to enter, spiraling out into various specialty (scale specific, narrow gaug
e, historical society publications, books, etc.) publications.

I'd bet within a year or two much of the original work could be duplicated in a more sustainable format without truly onerous effort by any individual. The core group designing and maintaining the database would be doing the biggest job.

Others could supply "administrative support" by maintaining the lists of needed information and verifying potential contributors and logging when they complete (or fail to complete by deadline) their assignments. The contributors would ultimately cross-check and correct each others work as each update was released (which experience tells me would be the another major area of work).

Personally, I would be willing to work as an administrator and contributor to the group. I don't feel I have the expertise in selecting or designing the database. If you feel you do have the expertise, or would want to contribute to such an effort in other ways, email me off list and I maybe we can start to put something together.

Pieter Roos


Re: Atlas HO ICC-105 tank car...

Tim O'Connor
 

A friend of mine did this with Athearn's old "chemical" tank car and
a Tichy dome. It does change the appearance quite a bit -- but whether
there is an actual prototype... ? That's an open question.

Tim O'Connor


Steve Lucas wrote

Seems to me that this car could be a good start for models of ICC-104 cars
if a new dome is mounted on the tank. Your thoughts?


Re: More questions on GN Boxcar underframe painting and finishing

Brian Carlson
 

50's era, you must be making a gift for me, as that's at least 6 years out of your era. Next thing we know you'll be putting shadow Keystone's on things and running F's and geeps.
 
Brian J Carlson

--- On Thu, 7/15/10, Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:







That 1950s era X31A floorboard I mentioned to Staffan? I have sliced
it into thin wafers. Next step, make boards out of it... for... you
guessed it, an HO scale PRR X31A! Given the trouble I am going to to
make this floor, you can bet that this particular car will have its
doors OPEN! <VBG>

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: GATX Lettering, c. 1950

Bruce Smith
 

John,

Try Black Cat Decals
http://www.greatdecals.com/BlackCat.htm

That's where I got the decals for my red caboose brass 8K GATX tanks. The decals have the lines, although you could also harvest them form another set as well ;^)

Regards
Bruce

Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Jul 15, 2010, at 11:38 AM, John Golden wrote:

Gentlemen,

I'm ready to decal an Overland 8k GATX tank car (basicallythe WWI- era car), and need some help/advice on lettering.

I've noticed in photos--Ted's Tank Car handbook in particular--that early GATX lettering had a line above and below the GATX reporting marks. I've also noticed that the lines were eliminated in the mid-50s. Lettering specifics for GATX cars are not covered in this or other documents. If I model 1950, what's the appropriate reporting mark scheme? Lines or no lines?

I ordered the Champ GATX decals and there are no lines above/below the reporting marks in the set. If lines are appropriate for my era, would anyone know where to get the appropriate decals?

Thank You!

John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN




------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: More questions on GN Boxcar underframe painting and finishing

Bruce Smith
 

On Jul 15, 2010, at 12:00 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


I suspect most new boxcars in the steam era had unpainted wood floorboards, but Jack Spencer
and Ted Culotta are the only guys I know of who have modeled this feature.
Bob

There's probably a few others who enjoy doing this... :-)
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/images/modeling/models/oconnor/ dssa17065floor.jpg

But Jack's probably the only guy who knows what type of wood was used
on the prototype car, and has modeled it correctly.

Tim O'Connor
Tim,

That 1950s era X31A floorboard I mentioned to Staffan? I have sliced it into thin wafers. Next step, make boards out of it... for... you guessed it, an HO scale PRR X31A! Given the trouble I am going to to make this floor, you can bet that this particular car will have its doors OPEN! <VBG>

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: Model Railroad Magazine index is no more

Pieter Roos
 

With the moderator's kind indulgence:

Clearly the index now belongs to Kalmbach and they can give or sell it to whomever they chose or just kill it if that is their preference. From comments on several lists as well as on the MR site forum it appears the original database has some issues in terms of maintainability and compatibility with other forms. The one positive is that the removal of the existing free index does open the way for a possibly better follow-on.

Before this issue disappears and/or is ruled off-topic, let me propose an alternative. For someone or a small group to duplicate the work that went into the original would be a tremendous task. Yet there are, at a minimum, hundreds of "interested" people in the groups discussing this with at least some time and resources at their disposal.

Suppose we tap all that and start from scratch. Surely among those who will miss this tool are folks with database expertise, researchers or others with a good idea of what is needed for such a database. A small core group could identify the best available free or shareware database (there are a number of them out there), hash out the design of the database with fields, key words, etc. Prepare a data entry form and a search form.


Once that is done, the fun could begin! Allow contributors to "register" and be verified by supplying some personal information. This could be done through a web site or even a Yahoo group. Once approved, the contributor would select from the available data blocks identified as needed for the index. Lets suppose the start is single year blocks of one of the major magazines (initially MR, RMC and MM). The contributor is assigned his selected block, a deadline (maybe 30 days), and given access to download an empty database, a "sample" database containing a few records showing how the data should be
entered, and the data entry form.

Once the contributor sends in his database filled with the required data it will be verified (at least that it is not seriously corrupted or containing "spam" elements). Once a minimum "phase 1" level of data is combined; say the last 20 years of MR, RMC and MM; the first "issue" of the index is made available to the contributors. They will essentially quality check the initial work. Completing an assigned data entry block would get the contributor the current release plus a certain number of "free" updates of the database. Additional blocks would accrue additional updates. Once the database reached a defined "phase" of both quantity and quality it would be made available to non-contributors for a nominal fee, either as a download, CD or using a web site (like the old index) depending on the resources of the group. As the index developed, more magazines would be added to the "needed" list for contributors to enter, spiraling out into various specialty (scale specific, narrow gauge, historical society publications, books, etc.) publications.

I'd bet within a year or two much of the original work could be duplicated in a more sustainable format without truly onerous effort by any individual. The core group designing and maintaining the database would be doing the biggest job.

Others could supply "administrative support" by maintaining the lists of needed information and verifying potential contributors and logging when they complete (or fail to complete by deadline) their assignments. The contributors would ultimately cross-check and correct each others work as each update was released (which experience tells me would be the another major area of work).

Personally, I would be willing to work as an administrator and contributor to the group. I don't feel I have the expertise in selecting or designing the database. If you feel you do have the expertise, or would want to contribute to such an effort in other ways, email me off list and I maybe we can start to put something together.

Pieter Roos


Atlas HO ICC-105 tank car...

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Seems to me that this car could be a good start for models of ICC-104 cars if a new dome is mounted on the tank.

Your thoughts?


Re: More questions on GN Boxcar underframe painting and finishing

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Nice work on the wood, but the underside is wayyyyyyy too clean. Those plain bearings threw off a lot of gunk.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


I suspect most new boxcars in the steam era had unpainted wood floorboards, but Jack Spencer
and Ted Culotta are the only guys I know of who have modeled this feature.
Bob

There's probably a few others who enjoy doing this... :-)
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/images/modeling/models/oconnor/dssa17065floor.jpg

But Jack's probably the only guy who knows what type of wood was used
on the prototype car, and has modeled it correctly.

Tim O'Connor


Re: new decal for Atlas tankcar

Tim O'Connor
 

Lou, thanks for that information. I imagine (in the absence of more
facts) that Gas-Oil Products could buy the propane from any source it
chose, and then have the cars bring it to their distribution points.

As such I was thinking Gas-Oil could route their cars now and then
via some possibly imaginary railroads such as the Chesapeake & Lake
Erie (North Shore Model RR Club)... :-)

Tim O'Connor

Gas-Oil Products had two home points -- Oxford, PA and Miami, FL. -- which were
lettered on the cars. The Oxford distributor was on the PRR's Octoraro Branch.
Freight on the branch came through Thurlow Yard in Chester, PA, which is on what
is now the Northeast Corridor. I haven't been able to discover the origination
point of the propane.

The ORER lists the correspondence point for the Florida operation as Coral
Gables.

The 1948 ORER also lists which cars were where. The builder's photo of GOPX 95
is lettered Oxford, but the ORER puts 95 through 99 in Florida. The ORER has
GOPX 90 through 94 in Pennsylvania.

Lou Whiteleyl
Lawrenceville, NJ

________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, July 15, 2010 12:49:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] new decal for Atlas tankcar


Nice looking car. Any ideas on what routes it would have travelled from
loading to unloading point? I assume this car was leased to a distributor
rather than to a refiner.

Tim O'Connor

http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/samples/GOPX.jpg


Re: More questions on GN Boxcar underframe painting and finishing

Tim O'Connor
 

Staffan, I would be amazed to find out that railroads bothered to repaint
the bottoms of floor boards on a box car. They may not even have bothered
to repaint the steel underframe, except superficially. I definitely have
seen photos of repainted cars where there was no attempt to repaint the
roof! (Nice contrast -- freshly painted car side and rusty, filthy roof.)

If they did paint the underbody for a repaint, they would first have to
steam clean the filth and muck from underneath the car -- otherwise they
would just be painting the dirt!

And then there's that great color photo of a wrecked Santa Fe "Fe-x" box
car -- some of the floor boards look clean but most of them are black with
filth. My guess is that some of the boards were replaced.

Tim O'Connor

The next question is what happened, when a car was repainted. Would the floor boards just be hit by overspray from when the steel members were repainted or would the painter give the floor boards an even coat?

Staffan Ehnbom


Re: new decal for Atlas tankcar

LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@...>
 

Gas-Oil Products had two home points -- Oxford, PA and Miami, FL. -- which were
lettered on the cars.  The Oxford distributor was on the PRR's Octoraro Branch. 
Freight on the branch came through Thurlow Yard in Chester, PA, which is on what
is now the Northeast Corridor.  I haven't been able to discover the origination
point of the propane.
 
The ORER lists the correspondence point for the Florida operation as Coral
Gables.
 
The 1948 ORER also lists which cars were where.  The builder's photo of GOPX 95
is lettered Oxford, but the ORER puts 95 through 99 in Florida.  The ORER has
GOPX 90 through 94 in Pennsylvania.
 
Lou Whiteleyl
Lawrenceville, NJ




________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, July 15, 2010 12:49:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] new decal for Atlas tankcar

 

Nice looking car. Any ideas on what routes it would have travelled from
loading to unloading point? I assume this car was leased to a distributor
rather than to a refiner.

Tim O'Connor

At 7/15/2010 06:22 AM Thursday, you wrote:
At the request of a customer and with supplied builder photos, I've made a new
decal set for the Atlas LPG tankcar prototype which was built in 1947 putting it
in the "wheelhouse" of this group. See:
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/samples/GOPX.jpg

Jerry Glow
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Hercules Powder tankcar et al.

Richard Townsend
 

Seeing Mr. Glow's decals for an orange tankcar, and the Atlas scheme for Hercules Powder got me off my duff to ask a question about a tankcar I recently bought. It is lettered for Hercules Powder but has an orange tank (bottom sheet black). It's an older model of an older tankcar with the safety valve coming off the side of the dome. Did Hercules have an orange scheme like this? Or did I just buy a model that will look nice in the display case?


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon


Re: More questions on GN Boxcar underframe painting and finishing

Tim O'Connor
 

I suspect most new boxcars in the steam era had unpainted wood floorboards, but Jack Spencer
and Ted Culotta are the only guys I know of who have modeled this feature.
Bob

There's probably a few others who enjoy doing this... :-)
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/images/modeling/models/oconnor/dssa17065floor.jpg

But Jack's probably the only guy who knows what type of wood was used
on the prototype car, and has modeled it correctly.

Tim O'Connor

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