Date   

Re: UP B-50-33

Mark
 

Wish to thank all of you. The photo was not very clear which made me think that a non ACR model was possible!

Mark Morgan

--- In STMFC@..., Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Jul 14, 2010, at 7:10 PM, Mark M wrote:

Would the old Athearn 40' steel boxcar be a good choice for this
car. Found an article by Jim Fuhrman with Greg Martin in RMC April
1994 about making this car.
Mark, there are several problems with this idea, apart from the
inherent crudeness and inaccuracy of the Athearn model (doors, lower
door slides, running boards, molded-on ladders and grabs, etc.,
etc.) First, the UP B-50-33 had W corner posts and round cornered
ends, whereas the Athearn model has square corners. Perhaps even
more problematic, the B-50-33s, like most other UP box cars of that
vintage, had what is commonly called ACR side sheathing - that is,
there was a vertical row of rivets centered between each of the major
rivet seams on the sides. We've come a long way since 1994, and
today I'd start with an Intermountain 10'6" high AAR box car kit and
add the ACR rivets using the Archer rivet decals.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: new decal for Atlas tankcar

Tim O'Connor
 

Schuyler, wrong on both counts. But at least you're consistent.

Tim O'Connor

Great minds run in the same channels . . . .
But then, fools think alike, too . . .

SGL


Lou, thanks for that information. I imagine (in the absence of more
facts) that Gas-Oil Products could buy the propane from any source it
chose, and then have the cars bring it to their distribution points.

As such I was thinking Gas-Oil could route their cars now and then
via some possibly imaginary railroads such as the Chesapeake & Lake
Erie (North Shore Model RR Club)... :-)

Tim O'Connor


Re: IMRC 1958 cu ft hopper + Microscale 87-660

Ed Hawkins
 

On Jul 15, 2010, at 8:57 PM, Andy Cich wrote:

<snip>
Which of these cars can be built with the Intermountain model as is,
meaning
the roof, hatch, and hatch latch that Intermountain modeled?
Andy,
The vast majority of SHPX 1958 cu. ft. covered hopper cars built from
1939 to 1952 follow the general configuration of the model that IM has
produced with the opening in the sides. Exceptions with different hatch
arrangements are:

25073-25078, 4-41, Edgar Brothers (gray paint)
25143-25161, 3-42, Aluminum Ore Co. (gray paint)
25478-25480, 9-50 Westvaco (black paint)

There are variations in the end arrangements that apply to these cars.
The difference has to do with the vertical angles on the "B" end
located on either side of the hand brake that also support the brake
step. In some cases (most common) the left angle support is bent below
the brake step such that the distance between the two angles is more
narrow at the bottom. In other cases (least common) the right angle is
bent between the hand brake and brake step such that the distance
between the angles is wider at the bottom. I don't know to what extent,
if any, that IM is capturing these variations.

Some other builders used a third end variation in which the left angle
is bent higher up than on ACF-built cars, between the hand brake and
brake step, such that the distance between the angles is more narrow at
the bottom.

The trucks furnished by IM for these cars are inaccurate for all SHPX
cars. Cars built through 1948 had 70-ton double-truss spring plankless
trucks, and cars built in the early 1950s had 70-ton A-3 Ride Control.
Miner hand brakes were used cars built in the 1950s.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: new decal for Atlas tankcar

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Great minds run in the same channels . . . .



But then, fools think alike, too . . .

SGL


Lou, thanks for that information. I imagine (in the absence of more
facts) that Gas-Oil Products could buy the propane from any source it
chose, and then have the cars bring it to their distribution points.

As such I was thinking Gas-Oil could route their cars now and then
via some possibly imaginary railroads such as the Chesapeake & Lake
Erie (North Shore Model RR Club)... :-)

Tim O'Connor

Gas-Oil Products had two home points -- Oxford, PA and Miami, FL. -- which
were
lettered on the cars. The Oxford distributor was on the PRR's Octoraro
Branch.
Freight on the branch came through Thurlow Yard in Chester, PA, which is on
what
is now the Northeast Corridor. I haven't been able to discover the
origination
point of the propane.

The ORER lists the correspondence point for the Florida operation as Coral
Gables.

The 1948 ORER also lists which cars were where. The builder's photo of GOPX
95
is lettered Oxford, but the ORER puts 95 through 99 in Florida. The ORER
has
GOPX 90 through 94 in Pennsylvania.

Lou Whiteleyl
Lawrenceville, NJ

________________________________
From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...
<mailto:timboconnor%40comcast.net> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thu, July 15, 2010 12:49:35 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] new decal for Atlas tankcar


Nice looking car. Any ideas on what routes it would have travelled from
loading to unloading point? I assume this car was leased to a distributor
rather than to a refiner.

Tim O'Connor

http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/samples/GOPX.jpg







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Re: Hercules Powder tankcar et al.

Richard Townsend
 

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon

-----Original Message-----
From: brianleppert@... <brianleppert@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2010 8:06 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Hercules Powder tankcar et al.




Brian,

Thanks for your information. I guess the best we can say is the paint and lettering scheme is "based on" reality. That's something, I guess. I just went down and took a close look at the car. There is a faint "GLOBE" on the bottom of one of the running boards, so I'm guessing it's from Globe, which I understand was an Athearn predecessor. The lettering is poor quality. It will look nice next to my Athearn 3-dome Shell tank car, which was my first post-train-set kit and which I built in about 1960. Maybe I will have a have an "orange tank car" section in the display case.

Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, OR

Richard,

You probably have a Model Die Casting "Old Timer" tank car. The basis for the Hercules p/l scheme on that model can be seen in JMJ Productions video "Vintage Rails Vol. 3", about 6 minutes from the beginning. Seen is HPCX (Hercules Powder Co.) #557, an AC&F type 7 8050 gallon tank car. It has high running boards, safety valve(s?) mounted on the dome side, and the bottom sheet and underframe are painted black.

This looks like 8mm color film from the 1940s. The tank car is being pulled by a Milwaukee Road steam loco and the tank's color seems to match the Milwaukee herald on the tender. They both look orange on the video, but weren't those heralds alway red?

Do you have room in your display case?

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


New Accurail Tooling

Andy Laurent
 

Gents,

It seems that Accurail has announced some new tooling on their website at http://www.accurail.com/accurail/new.htm

8300-Series 40' Steel Refrigerator Cars http://www.accurail.com/accurail/8300.HTM

8500-Series 40' Steel Plug Door Boxcars
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/8500.HTM

Thoughts on true prototypes for these?

Andy L.
South Bend, IN


Re: Hercules Powder tankcar et al.

brianleppert@att.net
 

Richard,

You probably have a Model Die Casting "Old Timer" tank car. The basis for the Hercules p/l scheme on that model can be seen in JMJ Productions video "Vintage Rails Vol. 3", about 6 minutes from the beginning. Seen is HPCX (Hercules Powder Co.) #557, an AC&F type 7 8050 gallon tank car. It has high running boards, safety valve(s?) mounted on the dome side, and the bottom sheet and underframe are painted black.

This looks like 8mm color film from the 1940s. The tank car is being pulled by a Milwaukee Road steam loco and the tank's color seems to match the Milwaukee herald on the tender. They both look orange on the video, but weren't those heralds alway red?

Do you have room in your display case?

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV

--- In STMFC@..., richtownsend@... wrote:


Seeing Mr. Glow's decals for an orange tankcar, and the Atlas scheme for Hercules Powder got me off my duff to ask a question about a tankcar I recently bought. It is lettered for Hercules Powder but has an orange tank (bottom sheet black). It's an older model of an older tankcar with the safety valve coming off the side of the dome. Did Hercules have an orange scheme like this? Or did I just buy a model that will look nice in the display case?


Richard Townsend
Lincoln City, Oregon




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: GATX Lettering, c. 1950

bob_karig <karig@...>
 

To make your case, if you examine the 1953 Car Builders Cyclopedia, you'll see in the tank car section that the GATX car built in 1950 had the lines ("bars"), and those built in 1951 and later did not.

Bob Karig


Re: GATX Lettering, c. 1950

bob_karig <karig@...>
 

Good point, Richard. Indeed, Section L of the AAR Manual of Standards and Recommended Practices identifies the lettering and marking of cars as an AAR Standard. However, as you point out, so many railroads deviated from that standard that they became, in effect, a Recommended Practice, despite the compaints of many of the member railroads. What railroad is going to reject a car because it isn't lettered properly?

Bob Karig


IMRC 1958 cu ft hopper + Microscale 87-660

Andy Cich
 

Microscale decal set 87-660 has several private roadnames for grey 1958 cu
ft covered hoppers, and was inspired by Ed Hawkin's article in the January
1992 RMJ. I haven't obtained this issue yet, and would like to build a car
or two before Intermountain gets to them. So far Intermountain has released
the Aluminum Ore car and announced the Colgate Palmolive Peet car.

Other roadnames on the decal set are:
Westvaco Chemical
Westvaco Chlorine
Sherwyn Williams
Edgar Brothers Clay
Kimberly Clark

Kaminski's ACF book only shows the Aluminum Ore car and my 1953 Carbuilders
Cyclopedia doesn't show any others.

Which of these cars can be built with the Intermountain model as is, meaning
the roof, hatch, and hatch latch that Intermountain modeled?

Andy Cich


Re: Model Railroad Magazine index is no more

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Pieter_Roos" <pieter_roos@...> wrote:
<snip>
Allow contributors to "register" and be verified by supplying some personal information. <snip>
Pieter,
I volunteer. My database experience ended in the 1980s with dBase III. I can, however, enter data and even enjoy doing so.

Gene Green


Re: GATX Lettering, c. 1950

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 15, 2010, at 4:03 PM, bob_karig wrote:

The removal of the lines above and below the reporting marks was
approved by letter ballot to take effect on March 1, 1957.
True. However, to avoid confusion, note that photographic evidence
shows that General American stopped using them more than a decade
earlier. It may be added that many other railroads and car owners
either stopped applying the lines long before 1957 or never used them
at all. The Santa Fe, for instance, never had lines above the
reporting marks and below the numbers before ca. 1925, when the
revised AAR lettering standards were adopted, and then applied the
lines for only about a year before discontinuing their use. The ARA/
AAR lettering standards were never, in effect, more than recommended
practice and at various times many railroads had their own notions
about the style and location of lettering, though not the content of
it: examples that come immediately to mind include Chicago & Eastern
Illinois, Chicago & Northwestern, Maine Central, Minneapolis & St.
Louis, Northern Pacific, Pennsylvania, Southern, Wabash, and Western
Maryland.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Model Railroad Magazine index is no more

Pieter Roos
 

Hi Tim;

There are a couple of major differences in this proposal. First is that it is not specifically about freight cars, which limits both its audience (we are pretty much all here) and the number of people with real expertise. For a freight car wiki there are a very small set of people who have most of the data and have little to gain from spending time and effort doing data entry so the rest of us can access it for free. All the experts I've encountered here are very generous in providing information when asked specific questions, but that's miles away from asking them to spend many long hours doing data entry gratis. Judging by the speed with which most respond to questions I'd guess they have their data well organized to begin with and don't really need a "finding aid".

On the other hand, nearly any model railroader has some number of back issues of magazines, and a reasonable subset of them are presumably competent to either enter the data into a database form or verify it. Most of us would benefit from having the information in our magazine collections indexed in a search-able fashion, so we win by participating. I am also not saying it would be a wiki, or even necessarily on-line. It might be a CD or DVD updated periodically if that is what the core group decides works best. I'm certainly not saying it's a slam-dunk success, but I'd consider it worth trying unless you have a better suggestion.

Pieter Roos

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Pieter, we've already discussed such a group effort many times.
We even started a Yahoo group with the idea of creating a WIKI
web site for freight car modeling information. It's a great idea
but there are few people with the expertise who are not already
very busy with their own lives and hobby projects -- and people
may not realize that Wikipedia works so well because it is
strongly moderated by paid staff! Fact checking is expensive!
To say nothing of web sites, servers, etc.

Tim O'Connor



With the moderator's kind indulgence:

Clearly the index now belongs to Kalmbach and they can give or sell it to whomever they chose or just kill it if that is their preference. From comments on several lists as well as on the MR site forum it appears the original database has some issues in terms of maintainability and compatibility with other forms. The one positive is that the removal of the existing free index does open the way for a possibly better follow-on.

Before this issue disappears and/or is ruled off-topic, let me propose an alternative. For someone or a small group to duplicate the work that went into the original would be a tremendous task. Yet there are, at a minimum, hundreds of "interested" people in the groups discussing this with at least some time and resources at their disposal.

Suppose we tap all that and start from scratch. Surely among those who will miss this tool are folks with database expertise, researchers or others with a good idea of what is needed for such a database. A small core group could identify the best available free or shareware database (there are a number of them out there), hash out the design of the database with fields, key words, etc. Prepare a data entry form and a search form.


Once that is done, the fun could begin! Allow contributors to "register" and be verified by supplying some personal information. This could be done through a web site or even a Yahoo group. Once approved, the contributor would select from the available data blocks identified as needed for the index. Lets suppose the start is single year blocks of one of the major magazines (initially MR, RMC and MM). The contributor is assigned his selected block, a deadline (maybe 30 days), and given access to download an empty database, a "sample" database containing a few records showing how the data should be
entered, and the data entry form.

Once the contributor sends in his database filled with the required data it will be verified (at least that it is not seriously corrupted or containing "spam" elements). Once a minimum "phase 1" level of data is combined; say the last 20 years of MR, RMC and MM; the first "issue" of the index is made available to the contributors. They will essentially quality check the initial work. Completing an assigned data entry block would get the contributor the current release plus a certain number of "free" updates of the database. Additional blocks would accrue additional updates. Once the database reached a defined "phase" of both quantity and quality it would be made available to non-contributors for a nominal fee, either as a download, CD or using a web site (like the old index) depending on the resources of the group. As the index developed, more magazines would be added to the "needed" list for contributors to enter, spiraling out into various specialty (scale specific, narrow gaug
e, historical society publications, books, etc.) publications.

I'd bet within a year or two much of the original work could be duplicated in a more sustainable format without truly onerous effort by any individual. The core group designing and maintaining the database would be doing the biggest job.

Others could supply "administrative support" by maintaining the lists of needed information and verifying potential contributors and logging when they complete (or fail to complete by deadline) their assignments. The contributors would ultimately cross-check and correct each others work as each update was released (which experience tells me would be the another major area of work).

Personally, I would be willing to work as an administrator and contributor to the group. I don't feel I have the expertise in selecting or designing the database. If you feel you do have the expertise, or would want to contribute to such an effort in other ways, email me off list and I maybe we can start to put something together.

Pieter Roos


Re: More questions on GN Boxcar underframe painting and finishing

Tim O'Connor
 

Hey, it's a new car! :-)

I made the floor using a Sunshine mini-kit which he only made
for a short time. It consisted of pre-sized pieces of scribed
Evergreen (painted) to finish off the interiors of box cars. I
laminated two pieces (I think it was .020) to make the bottom
of the floor and the interior floor, and the car is modeled
with one open door (with a torn grain door) and an intact
grain door (kraft paper) as well as an interior.

Of course the whole underframe is bogus because this is an
Athearn 40' box car. Nowadays if I want to do the floorboards,
I paint the underbody a wood color, then mask, and paint the
steel parts. That's how Jack Spencer does his. Then you weather
it and wonder why you bothered in the first place! :-)

If you're modeling a box car only a year or less old, it makes
sense to model the natural wood color because they didn't get
too filthy the first year. But masking is painfully slow with
all those stringers getting in the way.

Tim O'Connor

Nice work on the wood, but the underside is wayyyyyyy too clean. Those plain bearings threw off a lot of gunk.
Steve Lucas.
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/images/modeling/models/oconnor/dssa17065floor.jpg


Re: new decal for Atlas tankcar

SUVCWORR@...
 

The artwork shows a home of Oxford, PA which is in Chester County, PA. Chester County is due west of Philadephia sharing a common border with Philadelphia County. This may help track down the locality in which this car operated.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: jerryglow@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Jul 15, 2010 11:59 am
Subject: [STMFC] Re: new decal for Atlas tankcar


no personal knowledge. It was done at a customer request with his supplied data.
opefully he or someone can chime in on this one.
Jerry Glow
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Nice looking car. Any ideas on what routes it would have travelled from
loading to unloading point? I assume this car was leased to a distributor
rather than to a refiner.

Tim O'Connor


At 7/15/2010 06:22 AM Thursday, you wrote:
>At the request of a customer and with supplied builder photos, I've made a
ew decal set for the Atlas LPG tankcar prototype which was built in 1947
utting it in the "wheelhouse" of this group. See:
>http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/samples/GOPX.jpg
>
>Jerry Glow
>http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals



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Re: GATX Lettering, c. 1950

bob_karig <karig@...>
 

The removal of the lines above and below the reporting marks was approved by letter ballot to take effect on March 1, 1957.

Bob Karig


Re: GATX Lettering, c. 1950

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 15, 2010, at 9:38 AM, John Golden wrote:

Gentlemen,

I'm ready to decal an Overland 8k GATX tank car (basicallythe WWI-
era car), and need some help/advice on lettering.

I've noticed in photos--Ted's Tank Car handbook in particular--that
early GATX lettering had a line above and below the GATX reporting
marks. I've also noticed that the lines were eliminated in the
mid-50s. Lettering specifics for GATX cars are not covered in this
or other documents. If I model 1950, what's the appropriate
reporting mark scheme? Lines or no lines?
John, I don't have an exact date but it was about 1945, as best I can
determine from photographic evidence. So the answer depends on how
much you want to weather your model. In 1950, there were still a
bunch of GATX cars around with the lines above and below the
reporting marks and numbers, but they were more less dirty and
weathered. To represent a recently repainted car, you should omit
the lines.

I ordered the Champ GATX decals and there are no lines above/below
the reporting marks in the set. If lines are appropriate for my
era, would anyone know where to get the appropriate decals?
The best GATX decals I know are made by STMFC list member Al Ferguson
in Canada (Black Cat Decals). They're based on photos in my
collection and include a variety of correct dimensional and tank test
data, as well as having reporting marks and number both with and
without lines. The e-mail I have for Al is <ajfergus@...>.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Atlas HO ICC-105 tank car...

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jul 15, 2010, at 10:32 AM, Steve Lucas wrote:

Seems to me that this car could be a good start for models of
ICC-104 cars if a new dome is mounted on the tank.

Your thoughts?
The tanks are too large - 11,000 gal., a size that was seldom used
for ICC-104 cars, most of which were 8,000 or 10,000 gal.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Sunshine 69.4 - ATSF Bx-58

bnpmodeler
 

Tom, this is great info, thank you so much. And thanks also to everyone else who contributed, it is greatly appreciated.

Jim Harr
Stella Scale Models
www.stellascalemodels.com

--- In STMFC@..., <tmolsen@...> wrote:

Jim,

There are two "B" end photos of composite BX-58's on page 106 of John C. Dobyne III's Santa Fe Boxcars 1869-1953, a Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling Society publication.

One car is numbered 32485 and the other is numbered 32434. The first car is in sawdust service and has roof hatches for easy loading, while the other is a true single door boxcar. Both have 7-5-5 Corrugated doors with flat steel extensions to make up the height difference. Both have second hand radial roofs.

The end ladder has seven rungs. The bottom of the ladder stiles begin above the first bottom corrugation of the car end. There is a riveted steel reinforcing strip that goes across the top of the car end with another which appears to be the upper riveted eave strip (which wraps around the edge of the car side at the end corners) above it that partially overlays the first. The top of the curved ladder stiles end at the point where the top strip overlays the lower one. The running board end supports are riveted to the top riveted eave strip.

The cars are equipped with AB brakes and have Ajax hand brake gear. The trucks are Andrews cast sideframe with bolted journals. The retainer valve pipe runs up the end of the car just to the right of the ladder and at the base of the Ajax brake gear housing curves to the right around the housing with the retainer valve attaching to the car end just above the top riveted eave strip between the gear case and the running board left support strip. The brakeman's step is located by the 2nd rung of the ladder from the top (between the 5th and 6th end rib from the top) of the car.

According to Mr. Dobyne's book, cars were painted mineral brown with metal roofs (after 1931) coated with black car cement with slate granules sprinkled in it to provide a non-slip surface. He also states that outside wood roofs continued to be painted mineral brown. He added that in or about 1951 the railroad began using a brown car cement on roofs or spraying them with mineral brown paint and that by the late 1950s the majority of car roofs would have been brown.

I hope that this information helps. The SFRH&MS has published a number of very well executed books on freight rolling stock (shameless plug) and are a must if you are building Santa Fe freight rolling stock.

Tom Olsen
7 Boundary Road, West Branch
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479
(302) 738-4292
tmolsen@...


Re: GATX Lettering, c. 1950

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

John, 



I believe the line above and below the reporting marks was recommended, but not required, practice by the AAR or ICC.



In reviewing numerous stenciling diagrams of steam era freight cars in the N&WHS archives collection, as well as the corresponding notes in the revision books, the recommended use of the lines was removed in the early 1950s.



My guess is that you should use the lines above and below the reporting marks for your era.



Jim Brewer

Glenwood MD

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Golden" <golden1014@...>
To: stmfc@...
Sent: Thursday, July 15, 2010 12:38:27 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: [STMFC] GATX Lettering, c. 1950

 




Gentlemen,
 
I'm ready to decal an Overland 8k GATX tank car (basicallythe WWI-era car), and need some help/advice on lettering. 
 
I've noticed in photos--Ted's Tank Car handbook in particular--that early GATX lettering had a line above and below the GATX reporting marks.  I've also noticed that the lines were eliminated in the mid-50s.  Lettering specifics for GATX cars are not covered in this or other documents.  If I model 1950, what's the appropriate reporting mark scheme?  Lines or no lines? 
 
I ordered the Champ GATX decals and there are no lines above/below the reporting marks in the set.  If lines are appropriate for my era, would anyone know where to get the appropriate decals?
 
Thank You!
 
John

John Golden
Bloomington, IN

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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