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ADMIN: Messages on the STMFC. Was: Re: Re: Interesting set of STM-era photos

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Dean Payne writes some interesting stuff about members, member's message content, member's expertise etc. However, messages containing views on other member's messages and other member's in general are NOT in scope on the STMFC. Such messages to me and deputy Jeff Aley are certainly welcome so that we can have an awareness of the feelings of the members. I may comment on more of this later but, for now, the thread about messages is terminated. This type of discussion is not going to occur on the group. A gentle, calm warning. Failure to abide by this will result in being placed in Moderate Jail.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner and Moderate Jailer


rebuilt P&LE/PMcY gondolas with extended sides

ed_mines
 

Can anyone point me to some good photos of P&LE gondolas built as composite gons around WWI and rebuilt with extended steel sides?

If I'm not mistaken these cars were 46-48 ft. long and have some kind of spacers so that the width of the cars increased.

I have the P&LE gon book. As I recall one of the few photos of these cars is one in MOW service from John LaRue.

Ed


Re: How thick is 0.040 styrene?

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Aley, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:
Never mind; it turns out that it was my (relatively inexpensive dial) calipers, and/or the moron using them.

A mechanical engineer here at work re-measured the sheets using a high-quality set of digital calipers, and they are 0.0405".
Jeff, don't be so hard on yourself. An equally challenged plant employee use and equally inexpensive instrument to set the machine which made the sheet.

I'll bet that there's some differences in thickness from batch to batch.

I worked in a factory that made .060 nominal floor tiles.

Is there any guarantee that the styrene exactly be the nominal? Do most users care?


Re: Interesting set of STM-era photos

Dean Payne
 

Ben,
You wrote: "Wow. You really don't know much about..." in response to his use of the word "apparently"?? Geez... what's wrong with writing
"Here's a link to some background regarding the collection; addtional links on the page give further context to this remarkable collection of photos." without the dismissive prelude?? It would have served the purpose.

You replied:
"In an academic discussion, the word "apparently" is a weasel word..."

In casual conversation, the word "apparently" is used more... casually! I hadn't realized this list qualified as an "academic discussion". And... "weasel word"?? Gentlemen, please! Play nice! In past discussions, anybody who made an assertion that wasn't 100% accurate was directed to check his facts before posting (a good idea), so the message seems to be to NOT post if you aren't an expert in the particular subject (perhaps that's why a note of uncertainty crept into his wording?) Damned if you do, damned if you don't. I think we need to allow somewhat more leeway in allowing people to feel free to post without fear of getting called on the carpet... Of course, they'd expect corrections or additions to their info. Correct info and cordial conversation can coexist.

It has been suggested that posters develop thicker skin, when someone tells them they don't know what they're talking about. I'd suggest that the veteran contributors on this list develop "thicker ears": you can expect that a new poster will ask a question that has been asked before. Feel free to ignore it without comment! No harm done... Likewise, a correction can be made without implying that the poster should leave the discussion to the experts.

You then went on to say:
"Sir, I will happily match my body of work against yours any day of the week."

Uh... Nobody questioned your expertise! I can't speak for all (weasel words!), but I have a deep respect for your work (and that of other veteran contributors as well). However, I don't think that expertise gives anybody the right to a lapse in decorum. I've seen this behavior before from others on the list, and it's disturbing. If our most expert members can't be civil... What kind of message does that send?

Dean Payne

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:



John Stokes wrote:
"It would help if you would educate the great unwashed out here, what did I miss in my comments? Here is the info from the link you so kindly posted for me. I believe I was correct in my assumption that these photos were original color photos and not hand painted black & white photos. Was it the use of the term "film" that got your dander up? Sorry, should have said "slides" or "transparencies." Same point, however."

Sir, words have meaning. You posted:
"They were apparently actual color photos from early color film, not the hand painted photos that we also see from time to time where the color might be a figment of the colorist's imagination."

In an academic discussion, the word "apparently" is a weasel word that translates as "I'm uncertain about my facts." As I stated before, this collection has been discussed at length on this list, and the giveaway that this collection was photographed on transparencies was the discussion regarding Kodachrome over the past few days. Additionally, the background on this collection is well documented on the Library of Congress website. Don't get angry with me over constructive criticism.

John also wrote:
"Wow, well excuse me, Sir! I guess I forgot that this group is restricted to only the self important and self acknowledged 'experts.'"

Sir, I will happily match my body of work against yours any day of the week.


Ben Hom


Re: box car identity?

cprfan
 

cef39us wrote:
--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Anyone recognize the owner or paint scheme for the steel box car
shown here? It doesn't match anything I can think of.
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN23377


Tim,

Flip the picture over and it might be a Atlanta & West Point car.
Notice what end the long ladders are on.
I zoomed the image out and yes, the image has been flipped over, the ladders, roofwalk, door guides and brake end give it away...

Alan

--
____________________________________________________________
/ &#92;
| What: Modeling Canadian Pacific in B.C. in the late 50's |
| EMail: cpr1957 at rogers dot com |
| WEB: http://www.pbase.com/cprfan |
&#92;____________________________________________________________/


Re: Interesting set of STM-era photos

Schuyler Larrabee
 

Al Brown wrote:
A few days ago we discussed colors in a Jack Delano freight-yard
photo, as they might be applied to STMFC modelling. This group of
photos also has some Delano pictures of non-railroad subjects; what
do y'all think of the colors in those? (I wish I could ask my late
dad, who remembered that time.)
Reminds me of the theory that before 1935 or so, the world
actually was NOT in color, but in B&W. That's what all the evidence
shows, anyway.

Tony Thompson



Where is Larry Jackman now that we need him? IIRC, he had a job painting
trains into color from B&W in the late 30s.

SGL





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DT&I 6800-6999

Tim O'Connor
 

I never knew these cars existed -- rebuilt composite gondolas
with improved dreadnaught ends? Anyone know more about them?
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN20716

Tim O'Connor


Re: box car identity?

Steve Haas
 

"Anyone recognize the owner or paint scheme for the steel box car
shown here? It doesn't match anything I can think of.
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN23377"


It looks (to me, at least), that the image is reversed. Looks like
reporting marks are on the right side of the door instead of the left.
Reverse the image and see if you can come up with a match.

Best regards,

Steve Haas
Snoqualmie, WA


Re: Cardboard Grain Doors

cprfan
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
Did you notice the missing wood lining on the inside of the car to the left of the door as he's nailing the liner in?
Not at first, but I did recall that the interior of the car had seen better days.

I watched the film again, not only to check out the insides of an old still active 40' box (with plain bearings), but to also get a good look at an old Ruston & Hornsby horizontal diesel stationary engine, with air start even !.

Alan

--
____________________________________________________________
/ &#92;
| What: Modeling Canadian Pacific in B.C. in the late 50's |
| EMail: cpr1957 at rogers dot com |
| WEB: http://www.pbase.com/cprfan |
&#92;____________________________________________________________/


Re: box car identity?

Tim O'Connor
 

Chet

LOL! Yeah I think you got it. I didn't notice the flip.

Tim O'Connor

Anyone recognize the owner or paint scheme for the steel box car
shown here? It doesn't match anything I can think of.
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN23377

Tim,

Flip the picture over and it might be a Atlanta & West Point car.
Notice what end the long ladders are on.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: 46 ft. Flatcars?

Jim Hayes
 

Interesting load. Four Plymouth Valiants and a Studebaker Lark.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 7:15 PM, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>wrote:




Speaking of MILW 46' flat cars, this web site contains quite a few images
of them converted for TOFC service. This is the first time I've seen a
photo
of these converted cars. I normally wouldn't pay $15 for a photo print, but
this one may be worth it (to me).

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN24653

Tim O'Connor

Going through old STMFC postings (always fun, learn something every time),
I found this topic as above. Edwin C. Kirstatter wrote: "I have a question
on 46 ft. flatcars, they seem to be a rare and unusual size. [snip] Anyone
know of any other roads that used this size?"

Several people responded with info on 45-46ft flatcars owned by C&NW, CN,
CP, IC, and L&N (also TC 2701-series, but those were USRA 42-footers). I
remembered that the MILW also had some of these uncommon-length flatcars, so
I dug out the Richard Hendrickson article in Prototype Modeler Nov-Dec 83 on
the Milwaukee's two series of 45ft9in (over strikers) flats:

- MILW 63001-63999 (odd #s only) 500 cars blt Ryan Car Co 1925
- MILW 600000-600349 350 cars blt Ryan Car Co 1929

Both series had riveted steel fishbelly underframes and side sills, with
12 pressed steel stake pockets, URECO drop brakewheels, and Dalman and
Bettendorf trucks, respectively. The article included freight car diagrams
for both series, but no prototype photos. Richard noted that "most of these
flatcars remained in revenue service through the 1940s and 1950s, and a few
were still active in the late 1960s."

He'd modeled this car by shortening an Athearn 50ft flatcar by 42 scale
inches (including one stake pocket), to get a slightly long, but otherwise
close representation of the prototype flatcar. The photo of his model showed
a nice-looking car that would be a good use for those Athearn 50-footers
that I suspect many of us have sitting idle in a blue box on a shelf
somewhere. Dr. Hendrickson's early articles and WestRail conversion kits
were pioneering efforts in prototype modeling that helped start the long and
continuing process that has brought us to the abundance of prototypical
models that we now enjoy, and he has continued to share his knowledge with
us all to this day - many thanks, Richard!

Dave Sieber, Reno NV


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: box car identity?

cef39us <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Anyone recognize the owner or paint scheme for the steel box car
shown here? It doesn't match anything I can think of.
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN23377

Tim,

Flip the picture over and it might be a Atlanta & West Point car.
Notice what end the long ladders are on.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: 46 ft. Flatcars?

Tim O'Connor
 

Speaking of MILW 46' flat cars, this web site contains quite a few images
of them converted for TOFC service. This is the first time I've seen a photo
of these converted cars. I normally wouldn't pay $15 for a photo print, but
this one may be worth it (to me).

http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN24653

Tim O'Connor

Going through old STMFC postings (always fun, learn something every time), I found this topic as above. Edwin C. Kirstatter wrote: "I have a question on 46 ft. flatcars, they seem to be a rare and unusual size. [snip] Anyone know of any other roads that used this size?"

Several people responded with info on 45-46ft flatcars owned by C&NW, CN, CP, IC, and L&N (also TC 2701-series, but those were USRA 42-footers). I remembered that the MILW also had some of these uncommon-length flatcars, so I dug out the Richard Hendrickson article in Prototype Modeler Nov-Dec 83 on the Milwaukee's two series of 45ft9in (over strikers) flats:

- MILW 63001-63999 (odd #s only) 500 cars blt Ryan Car Co 1925
- MILW 600000-600349 350 cars blt Ryan Car Co 1929

Both series had riveted steel fishbelly underframes and side sills, with 12 pressed steel stake pockets, URECO drop brakewheels, and Dalman and Bettendorf trucks, respectively. The article included freight car diagrams for both series, but no prototype photos. Richard noted that "most of these flatcars remained in revenue service through the 1940s and 1950s, and a few were still active in the late 1960s."

He'd modeled this car by shortening an Athearn 50ft flatcar by 42 scale inches (including one stake pocket), to get a slightly long, but otherwise close representation of the prototype flatcar. The photo of his model showed a nice-looking car that would be a good use for those Athearn 50-footers that I suspect many of us have sitting idle in a blue box on a shelf somewhere. Dr. Hendrickson's early articles and WestRail conversion kits were pioneering efforts in prototype modeling that helped start the long and continuing process that has brought us to the abundance of prototypical models that we now enjoy, and he has continued to share his knowledge with us all to this day - many thanks, Richard!

Dave Sieber, Reno NV


box car identity?

Tim O'Connor
 

Anyone recognize the owner or paint scheme for the steel box car
shown here? It doesn't match anything I can think of.
http://muse.museum.montana.edu/rvndb/rvnjpeg_img_rec.php?objno=RVN23377

Tim O'Connor


Re: File space (was Re: ARA type "Y" truck photos or drawings)

Aley, Jeff A
 

Bob,

This appears to be a Yahoo!Groups bug. When you upload a photo, it gets put into a "Pending Photos" area until it is approved by a Moderator (Mike Brock or me).
If Yahoo!Groups worked properly, you'd get a message saying what I said (above). Instead, it seems that it just sends you the "unknown error" message.

The Pending Photos area has photos from you of:
N&W Truck
PRR 2D-F8 (two copies)
Pennsy 50 ton
Type Y drawing (5 copies).

Please send me a note (off list is preferred) and let me know if you own the rights to these images (or if they're in the public domain); if so, then I'll go ahead and approve them.

Regards,

-Jeff Aley
Deputy Moderator, STMFC



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of bob_karig
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 5:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] File space (was Re: ARA type "Y" truck photos or drawings)



I'm still having problems uploading photos to the groups area. It let me start a new folder this morning, Type Y, but I keep getting the same error message regardless of which of the JPGs I try to upload. "error
An unknown error occurred on the Yahoo! Groups server."

Bob Karig


File space (was Re: ARA type "Y" truck photos or drawings)

bob_karig <karig@...>
 

I'm still having problems uploading photos to the groups area. It let me start a new folder this morning, Type Y, but I keep getting the same error message regardless of which of the JPGs I try to upload. "error
An unknown error occurred on the Yahoo! Groups server."

Bob Karig


Re: File space (was Re: ARA type "Y" truck photos or drawings)

Aley, Jeff A
 

I moved all of the photos that were in the ROOT of the Files area to the PHOTOS area in a folder called "0 Misc photos moved from Files area".

The good news: we now have about 36MB of files space available.
The bad news: when I moved the photos, the captions were lost.

I'm gradually moving all of the folders that contain ONLY photos to new Albums in the PHOTOS area. The captions for those will be lost, as will the folder description.

You COULD move your own photos, and re-type or cut-n-paste the captions. But Mike and I don't have the time to do it for hundreds of files.

Regards,

-Jeff Aley
Hard-nosed Deputy Moderator, STMFC


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of mike brock
Sent: Friday, August 06, 2010 2:42 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] File space (was Re: ARA type "Y" truck photos or drawings)



Tom Madden writes:

The STMFC <Files> area has 100MB of space and it's 99% full. The STMFC
<Photos> area has 100GB of space and is 0% (yes, zero) full. I'll leave it
to Mike and Jeff to administer that, but Yahoo obviously doesn't intend
that the <Files> areas of any groups be used for image files.
Neither does the STMFC. I have warned members about putting photos in the
files area and, even more importantly, that photos there need to be moved to
the photo section. Yes, Jeff...ohhh Jeff...are you there?...and I will get
to that eventually.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: File space (was Re: ARA type "Y" truck photos or drawings)

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Tom Madden writes:

The STMFC <Files> area has 100MB of space and it's 99% full. The STMFC <Photos> area has 100GB of space and is 0% (yes, zero) full. I'll leave it to Mike and Jeff to administer that, but Yahoo obviously doesn't intend that the <Files> areas of any groups be used for image files.
Neither does the STMFC. I have warned members about putting photos in the files area and, even more importantly, that photos there need to be moved to the photo section. Yes, Jeff...ohhh Jeff...are you there?...and I will get to that eventually.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


File space (was Re: ARA type "Y" truck photos or drawings)

pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

If you can upload them here it would be fine. There seemed to be a problem today, I couldn't reply to this thread earlier. Perhaps a server or space issue on y's end.
The STMFC <Files> area has 100MB of space and it's 99% full. The STMFC <Photos> area has 100GB of space and is 0% (yes, zero) full. I'll leave it to Mike and Jeff to administer that, but Yahoo obviously doesn't intend that the <Files> areas of any groups be used for image files.

Tom Madden


Re: Cardboard Grain Doors

cprfan
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
Did you notice the missing wood lining on the inside of the car to the left of the door as he's nailing the liner in?
I do recall seeing the wood lining on the inside of the car, or at least i think I did, but also need to look at the video again to check out some of the items that looked interesting, things like the box car and the stationary diesel engine.

Alan

--
____________________________________________________________
/ &#92;
| What: Modeling Canadian Pacific in B.C. in the late 50's |
| EMail: cpr1957 at rogers dot com |
| WEB: http://www.pbase.com/cprfan |
&#92;____________________________________________________________/

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