Gentlemen,
First, many thanks to all, including Ben Hom, Richard Hendrickson, Al Brown, Frank Peacock, Steve Wintner, Ed Mines and Bob Witt, who responded with information answering my questions about the ERIE 71800-series box cars. I was hoping for a quick, easy project but, as is so often the case, . . .

It appears that the Westerfield decal #3314 for these cars is correct for the period 1919-1936. Westerfield lists a couple of other ERIE decals for single-sheathed cars but in any event piecing of the car number and who knows what else would be necessary. I assume the same would be the case for the Champ decal HN-63.

I found an ad in the 1931 Car Builders' Cyc on page 362 and a photo of ERIE box car 75893 on the next page, both show a Chicago-Cleveland Climax roof. It looks like the Climax roof will be my stumbling block. Ah well, another potential project pushed to the back burner.

Gene Green

Thank you Jack & Steve:

I did look at the Proxxon Machine and it looks like another good candidate. One thing did concern and that is its speed (5000 rpm the slowest) when using it with styrene. I am worried it will melt the styrene.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Sherline--which is the smallest machine at 20.75 inches high, 33 lbs
and "electronically" controlled motor speed with an incredible
website with great information that helped me understand what I will
probably want in terms of a cutting or milling device. Did not see HP
of the motor stated

Bill,

I have three Sherline mills and use them constantly, have not had any problems with them. Also, Sherline has the best selection of accessories of any that you listed. I have probably more invested in "tooling and accessories" than the mills originally cost.

John F. Pautz
American Switch & Signal
P:48 track components

I have both the Sherline milling machine and a Sherline lathe. I haven't
used them that much but they have done a very good job on each project that
I did use them on. Tolerances are tight, specs are very good, and I like the
fact that the machines and accessories are all made here in the US. I also
like the fact that Sherline has a lot of accessories for their machines as
more complex projects come up. I have never taken any machining classes so
owner Joe Martin's Tabletop Machining book has a lot of good information for
newbies like myself...


Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com

bill, I own a proxxon mf70 (check model expo) and have used a sherline.

I have heard that the harbor freight machines are sturdy but not so accurate. hearsay only. heard of taig but cannot recall anything that stood out.

from experience I think a sherline is ok but requires some careful use and setup.

the proxxon is very small (they do offer some larger models) but I have been pleased with the accuracy out of the box and also the ease of adjustment. bang for the Buck Has been quite good.

one concern is that to use very small mills you need a very high rpm, which most mills cannot do. the proxxon does. and for the tasks you describe a 3/8 that bit will work, sure, but is overkill. think of milling off molded on grabs...

so my 0.02 is to take a look at the proxxon, but the sherline should serve.

have fun
steve Wintner

Gentleman

I have been spending time online looking at small milling machines as I anticipate some model making/building challenges. For example one project could involve cutting apart several SFRD 50-ft reefer roofs and reassembling into something very different. This is something requiring more precision I believe than a razor saw and NWSL True Sander can accomplish. Another task will be to remove unwanted material from the surface of something very cleanly. In addition to styrene, I imagine work with resin and brass.

So far I have identified three systems:

Sherline--which is the smallest machine at 20.75 inches high, 33 lbs and "electronically" controlled motor speed with an incredible website with great information that helped me understand what I will probably want in terms of a cutting or milling device. Did not see HP of the motor stated

Taig is 21 3/8 inches tall and weights 65 lbs and 1/5th HP motor if I read and understood it correctly. One dealer has a website that looks exhaustive and probably more serious than my needs. More of a dedicated machinist resource

Micromark/Harbor Freight which from what I can tell are the same machine appearing under other labels as well. (There is a Harbor Freight very near me and I went over to see if the had one on the floor but they did not. They did have the equivalent lathe from the same manufacturer and it is a serious tool.) It mill has two variable speed ranges with a .47 HP motor, is 110 lbs. and 33 3/4 inches high. The Micro Mark/Harbor Freight examples are bigger than I need I think.

Initially I believe most of my work will be with 3/8 inch shank "End Mills" to do the cutting. These cut on the end and the side.

Pricing on all is fairly close IMO. I am wondering if anyone on this list has experience with any of these systems and can comment on them?

Bill Welch

on the fallen flags site go to Erie, box cars - XM75893 & XM76335

second car may have a yellow diamond

C&O had a lot of cars with this Chicago Cleveland climax radial roofs

Ed

westerfield also offers Erie single sheathed decals....

have fun
steve wintner

On Aug 16, 2010, at 9:07 AM, mike brock wrote:

A two stroke penalty will be...hmmm. Well...anyhow, this thread is
terminated.

Especially if the two-stroke is a Diseasel.
--
Nolan Hinshaw, native Californian since 1944
"Every freight train has at least one NP box car"
the Brock Corollary to the GN hypothesis

Al Westerfield reports on a "new" scam...and others have replied.

This report should have been reported to me and Jeff Aley and not the group. Note the STMFC rule:

"ALL SUBJECTS OTHER THAN THOSE DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH STEAM ERA FREIGHT
CARS ARE PROHIBITED FROM MEMBER MESSAGES. Thus, all
admin, security, or "policing" functions will be conducted only by myself or
my representatives. Warnings about virus activity is strictly
prohibited."

A two stroke penalty will be...hmmm. Well...anyhow, this thread is terminated.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner

As has been discussed here often, the bogus paint schemes help pay for models we might not otherwise get. I wish the label would include a mention of accurate or not lettering as a caution to those few of us who care. Until then I am very grateful for this group which always seems to have someone who can provide accurate information about nearly anything freight-car-wise.

Thank you all,
Gene Green

No mfgr is in a hurry to dip his toe in that particular pool, Gene. Rapido's Jason Shron explained it very nicely on Trainorders.com the other day in the following exchange regarding fantasy paint schemes on his steam generator car:

BEGIN QUOTED TEXT

As much as I respect Jason S. at Rapido. They do
have a penchant for "fantasy" paint schemes. Don't
get me wrong, I TOTALLY understand the whys as to
why they do it. There are times when I wish they
would label them for what they are "fantasy
schemes".

When it comes to motive power, we will indeed do that, even if it means we will lose some sales.

But for rolling stock, we simply can't afford to be the first ones to do it. Here's a story I was told by a hobby shop owner in the Toronto area. A customer came in and picked up a gorgeous P2K gondola painted in CN colours. There was a note on the box, put on by the folks at Hobbycraft in deference to expert advice, that said it was not 100% prototypical for CN. The customer frowned, put it down, and picked up an Athearn RTR gondola painted in CN colours instead. It was just as wrong. He looked for the disclaimer, didn't find it, and bought it instead. He left the store a happy customer.

If the NMRA made it a RP for all manufacturers to put "this is bogus" disclaimers on packaging and all manufacturers agreed to do it, we would be on board. But until that happens, we can't afford to be the model that the potential customer puts down, especially in this still painful economy.
END QUOTED TEXT

Tom Madden

--- In STMFC@..., <tmolsen@...> wrote:

Good Morning Guys,
<snip> It is a shame that Atlas continuously puts lettering schemes for cars that did not have them.

As has been discussed here often, the bogus paint schemes help pay for models we might not otherwise get. I wish the label would include a mention of accurate or not lettering as a caution to those few of us who care. Until then I am very grateful for this group which always seems to have someone who can provide accurate information about nearly anything freight-car-wise.

Thank you all,
Gene Green

Good Morning Guys,

Thanks for tipping me off to the previous postings regarding the Atlas lettering schemes on the wrong cars. I am running a bit behind in my email and had to go back to look for the postings in regard to these cars. It is a shame that Atlas continuously puts lettering schemes for cars that did not have them. Several of those listed are not available, either in cars of the correct size or in decals, especially those for Barrett and Solvay Process.

The ACF book has pictures of a number of these schemes, but no decals are currently available. Here is the east in the '50s, one would see large numbers of tank cars with just about every variation of the Barrett and Solvay paint schemes. Barrett had a plant in South Philadelphia and it's parent company, Allied Chemical, had several plants in the Delaware Valley, so that it would be unusual not to see tank cars lettered for these companies. Cars lettered for the Solvay Process were also frequent visitors due to the number of chemical plants and refineries in the area.

Perhaps someone will eventually bring out cars of the right size with these schemes or at least, do decal sets to match the variations.

Tom Olsen
Newark, Delaware, 19711-7479

Tom,

I interpret the term "new paint schemes" to always mean "old [existing] tooling". When a model is newly-tooled, most companies will point out that fact ("all new tooling").

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Anthony Thompson
Sent: Sunday, August 15, 2010 11:26 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Atlas 11,000 Gallon LPG Tankcar



Tom Olsen wrote:

Atlas is releasing new paint schemes for their 11,000 Gallon LPG
Tank Car. Here is the write-up about the cars that appeared in the
Model Railroad Hobbyist Newsletter for August 2010:

Atlas said the Columbia Southern and Solvay schemes are
prototypically correct for smaller tank cars of similar design.

Just how prototypical are these paint schemes for this model and if
correct, then when were they used? Are these tank cars the same as
those LPG tank cars released earlier or are these cars new tooling?

Tom, what part of the Atlas statement confused you? They are
"real" paint schemes but NOT for this car body. And since they've had
an 11,000-gallon tank car for some time in HO scale, I'm pretty
certain this is that same tooling.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...<mailto:thompson%40signaturepress.com>
Publishers of books on railroad history

FRANK PEACOCK wrote:

Richard and STMFC, I checked my copy of the ORER (10/47, p.175, and

note A p.176) and I think that it is telling us that only 75 of the cars
kept their wood doors, the rest (122 cars) I guess had steel? There
seem to be slight differences in the "width at eaves" dimension. FHP
(Frank H. Peacock)

The ERIE diagram for these cars [Numbers 71806-71966], at the Fallen
Flag site, dated April 22, 1937 lists 25 cars that received Youngstown
steel doors and Creco fixtures. The diagram list the EXW for these
boxcars as 9'-9" with wood doors and 10'-0" with steel doors.
Apparently, more cars were converted before October 1947.

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/el/frt/erie-frt-9-2e.gif

Bob Witt

On Aug 15, 2010, at 6:49 PM, FRANK PEACOCK wrote:

One reference to these roofs is in the 1931 Car Builders Cyc. p.
362 and 363. It is a radial roof with two minor corrugations
spaced more or less equally between the carlines. One of the
illustrations is of Erie 75893, which is a steel car.

I will add that in the one photo I have of a car in MW service, the
small corrugations between the seam caps are clearly visible.

Richard Hendrickson

One reference to these roofs is in the 1931 Car Builders Cyc. p. 362 and 363. It is a radial roof with two minor corrugations spaced more or less equally between the carlines. One of the illustrations is of Erie 75893, which is a steel car. FHP (Frank H. Peacock)

--- In STMFC@..., Bryan Busséy <bbussey@...> wrote:

Al,

I've been receiving them for a while. Usually if the inquiry is
grammatically deficient (given that English is spoken in New Zealand), I
simply ignore them.

Well here in Aussie we think that they speak a sort of English, but it shouldn't be misspelled anyway. ;-)
Rob McLear
Brisbane Australia.

Richard and STMFC, I checked my copy of the ORER (10/47, p.175, and note A p.176) and I think that it is telling us that only 75 of the cars kept their wood doors, the rest (122 cars) I guess had steel? There seem to be slight differences in the "width at eaves" dimension. FHP (Frank H. Peacock)

To: STMFC@...
From: rhendrickson@...
Date: Sun, 15 Aug 2010 16:07:27 -0700
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ERIE single-sheathed box cars




























On Aug 15, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Gene wrote:

Looking at the equipment diagram for ERIE box cars 71800-71999

(renumbered from 92500-92699 in 1936 & 1937) these cars seem to

have started life in 1919 as USRA single-sheathed box cars which

were upgraded with AB brakes in 1936 and 1937.

Apparently they were also given steel sides in place of the

original wood sides. Can someone tell me when?

At the same time that they were renumbered, they got steel side

sheathing in place of wood (but kept their original wood sheathed

doors) and Chicago-Climax radial steel roofs, as well as AB brakes.

I have a photo of one after it was renumbered into MW service.

Would either Tichy 4028 or 4032 be the best jumping off point to

model this car?

4032. It has the original USRA side framing with steel sheathing

(4028 has replacement steel sheathed sides).

My stash of decals includes nothing for the ERIE. Couldn't find

anything suitable on Microscale's site. Is the Champ HN-63 the

closest decal or have I missed something somewhere?

Champ HN-63 will give you the lettering needed, as well as the small

heralds.



Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Al Brown wrote:
"I offer a small correction about the Tichy kits. Tichy 4032 is their kit for the Georgia Railroad rebuilds; between the trusses the sides are as smooth as, well, steel. The Tichy kit with board detail between the trusses is 4026, the USRA original; 4028 is the PMcK&Y rebuild, whose new sheathing is outside the trusses (it looks like an all-steel car, except for the inset side sill). Of the three, 4032 seems closest to the Erie cars. As Ben says, the roof isn't radial."

Al, thanks for the assist. I realized that I forgot about the GA rebuild while cooking dinner earlier and didn't get a chance to post a correction until now. The Tichy 4032 kit would be the most reasonable starting point from a Tichy kit.

"Speedwitch kit K127 models Georgia Railroad rebuilds with a *Murphy* radial roof; I don't know the difference between that and the Climax roof."
http://www.speedwitch.com/Models/k127.htm

It's hard to tell from the photo in Culotta & Kline, but there doesn't appear to be immediate corrugations between the carlines on the Erie car; however, I'd do some more digging on this as I seem to remember a Climax ad in the CBCs that showed the roof but I don't remember where I've seen it before. At any rate, Speedwitch K127 would be an even better starting point than the ones mentioned earlier.


Ben Hom