Date   

Re: ACCURAIL separate ladders & grabs

Greg Martin
 

For the 5th Ave Car Shops/Accurai Car and the Needham Packing Sioux City Dressed Beef car (which were both decorated) I simply taped of the marking on the car and used Testors Chrome yellow for a close match to the color. After I recently weathered them both there was no real difference. They will both be in Cocoa Beach on display. I plan to have some 11x14 color photos of the prototype(s) on display for review.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: Armand Premo <armprem2@surfglobal.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, Sep 13, 2010 3:10 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: ACCURAIL separate ladders & grabs




I have recently tried to upgrade an Accurail reefer.All went well until I tried to match the paint.I never knew there were so many different shades of yellow.What would you suggest that I use? Armand Premo
-----

Bill and All,

Off line I sent Wayne a couple of photos of the Shake N Take Accurail
Reefer we did in the past and one that was done later representing the Needham
Packing/Sioux City Dressed Beef car that I did and have had at Cocoa Beach.
These cars are simple (currently have four underframes nearly completed on
the bench) and the results are better than average. Never having built a
resin kit I have finished I suffer from a comparison issue. I nearly finished
a Roller Bearing Models resin Troop Sleeper but gave it to a friend
before it was finished. Shame on me, well perhaps.

I will likely never finish all the styrene kits that I have in my "stash".

Greg Martin

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Re: The Atlas USRA steel rebuild. Again.

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

CN had 250 steel rebuilds done by the GTW's Port Huron shops in 1936 of a steel-frame boxcar originally built for the Grand Trunk. Port Huron also did a large number of these cars for the GTW within a year or two of the CN cars. While on the subject of Accurail, I'll add that the original GTR car and a later CN rebuild (CN 463000-series) of it can be modelled quite easily with an Accurail kit. Thanks, Dennis!

Back to those CN rebuilds--

470000-470149 had Hutchins rooves.

470150-470249 had raised panel rooves.

Ends were 7/8, with an about 4" panel separating the two halves of the end.

Here's a photo of one of these cars, off its trucks, mind you--

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/136246761/pic/1370110130/view?picmode=&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&count=20&dir=asc

And a closer view of the end--

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/136246761/pic/1057113261/view?picmode=medium&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc

A closer view of the side--

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/photos/album/136246761/pic/991763783/view?picmode=medium&mode=tn&order=ordinal&start=1&dir=asc

The Atlas car is at best a "stand-in", as it does not have the "fishbelly" underframe that these cars had. As I have built the two that I'll need (these were a VERY small part--less than 1%--of CN's steel boxcar fleet), I've not compared the rest of the Atlas car to the CN prototype. But you can compare the Atlas model vs. prototype photos I've linked here.

I have modelled both varieties of thse cars in HO. I used a Sylvan Scale kit for the Hutchins roof version, and a heavy kitbash of a Tichy steel rebuild kit for the raised panel roof incarnation.

If anyone wants more info on these cars, feel free to email me off list.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:

Ed Sutorik asked:
"Anyway, Atlas has announced another run of their USRA rebuilds. I did a search of this list, and it appears the cars MIGHT work for ACL and/or Frisco. But those list-comments appeared before the car was widely available.

So, I'm asking if there are any new comments about these cars. I note that Atlas is supplying them with two kinds of ends and two kinds of underframes, so at least they're trying."

OK, I now see the release that Ed was referring to:
http://www.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/hosteelrebuilt1.htm
and it's "good" that the 8-panel cars are available.

Unfortunately, my comments in post numbers 83458 and 23214 still stand. In this case of these models, the big stumbling points are the roofs, ends, and IH of these prototypes:

Roofs: All prototypes had the original roof replaced - Viking (CMO), Murphy rectangular panel (AA, EJ&E, RI), or railroad specific design (DT&I).

Ends/IH: The DT&I, EJ&E, and AA retained their original ends and received only a marginal increase in IH at most (2"). (The ends on the AA model on the webpage are incorrect - they should be 7/8.) The CMO and RI cars were 10 ft IH cars, and a blank splice panel was used on the ends to increase their height.

I don't have information on the CN rebuilds handy to make a call on their accuracy.

These are very frustrating models. It looks as if Atlas is trying to capitalize on their approach on the 1932 ARA boxcars by tooling up different variations, but in the case of these rebuilds, the combination of variations are very railroad specific, and the end result are akin to the Train-Miniature SS and DS boxcars: variations of the same tooling that in the end produce models that aren't accurate for anything out of the box.


Ben Hom


NC&StL ACF 40' 'Yellow Stripe' boxcars

Bob McCarthy
 

Richard,

    We have recently printed decals for the above boxcars in O and S.  Do you think there would be any desire for them in HO?

Thanks,

Bob McCarthy
THE SUPPLY CAR, LLC
803-429-1811

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com> wrote:

From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: NC&StL (was GN) Flat Cars
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 6:47 PM







 









On Sep 13, 2010, at 10:50 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:



Ben Hom wrote
A builder's photo of NC&StL 70229 was published in the 1928 and 1931
issues of the Car Builders Cyclopedia.
... and that photo makes the car appear to be painted black.
Later photos from the 1950's appear to be oxide red.


That's my conclusion, too, since I've never found either a color

photo or NC&StL color documentation. FWIW, I painted my model

mineral red.



Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: NC&StL (was GN) Flat Cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Sep 13, 2010, at 10:50 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Ben Hom wrote

A builder's photo of NC&StL 70229 was published in the 1928 and 1931
issues of the Car Builders Cyclopedia.
... and that photo makes the car appear to be painted black.
Later photos from the 1950's appear to be oxide red.
That's my conclusion, too, since I've never found either a color
photo or NC&StL color documentation. FWIW, I painted my model
mineral red.

Richard Hendrickson


Endangered Tools

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

Like the advancing thin edge of the wedge, it has come to my attention that several of our very favorite tools are no longer available, namely the very fine Utica Swiss-made PBL sprue cutters, both varieties. They are no longer on dealers' shelves, nor are they on P-B-L's website or product list. I suspect that with the weak dollar, PBL could not longer afford to import them, and the flooding of the modeling market with cheap Pakistan clones by Micro Mark did not help (the Micro Mark cutter WILL cut melted butter but nothing more substantial- making it as a replacement tool a pretty dear item).

Otto Frei has a similar Swiss cutter to the Swiss P-B-L varieties (Dumont No. 15A High Precision Carbon Steel Tweezers 157.312) at @$87; and Wiha has a German-made variety #49501- almost identical @$86, which gives some clue as to what values are involved for fine tools these days. .

Also noted is that in some Otto Frei listings, their outstanding, popular, and precise French- made brass-handle/steel-chuck miniature pin vise #23650 is either just "Out of Stock", or is no longer listed. I have made inquiry.

Although I do take extremely good care of tools (usually!), this certainly is a cautionary note to guard even more closely my P-B-Ls, reserving to cutting pliers any tasks calling for cutting any metals, no matter how small.

Also, once again, with regard to the MicroMark copy, I got exactly what I paid for- performance and quality commensurate with the cheap price. Caveat Emptor.

Denny


Denny S. Anspach, MD
Okoboji, Iowa


Re: ACCURAIL paint colors

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "ealabhan0" <ealabhan0@...> wrote:

I suspect Ken was thinking of 5th Avenue Car Shops, who market excellent custom painted and lettered Accurail cars, and whose web site has a complete list of all current and previously issued cars by road number with Polly Scale references for matching the sides and ends of all their cars. I have not seen this on Accurail's web site for their own releases; note that on their Decal Renumber Set page, they advise that "There have been too many changes in paint formulation for us to be able to match the color of many of our older kits." I suspect that like many other manufacturers, Accurail uses commercial paint products rather than paint from any of the firms that market to modelers. Perhaps Dennis Storzek can comment on this.
Actually, we were using Po.lyscale, and the list is still on our web site, under "Paint Information":

http://accurail.com/accurail/paint.htm

The problem is, about two years ago Testors, the makers of Polyscale, notified us that they were not willing to package and sell paint in bulk any longer, so we are again using commercial coatings matched to the old colors. Drift control is always a problem in this situation, and so the colors may no longer be a good match. I see that while the paint list is still up, none of the newer releases have the colors noted.

The reason for the disclaimer on the re-number decal order slip is to ward off people trying to order decals for kits that were produced decades ago, that we would have no way of knowing what color the paint might be.

Dennis


Re: NC&StL (was G N) Flat Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Bob

When you originally asked about GN flat cars, I assumed that
you meant the RED CABOOSE "USRA" flat cars, not the TICHY flat
cars. My mistake.

The CHAMP decal set HC-646 was produced especially for the
GOULD (TICHY) flat cars and includes NC&StL, L&N, T&P, MKT,
GN, CP, WP and BAR -- but strangely, not SSW, which definitely
had such cars. Anyway, I've only seen evidence of the NC&StL,
T&P, SSW, and CP flat cars, even though this set was supposed
to be highly accurate.

GN had some longer straight side sill flat cars, but I've never
seen a photo of one the size of the TICHY flat.

The HC-646 contains a variety of road name lettering for GN,
so it may be good for other (and larger) GN flats than the
TICHY or RED CABOOSE kits.

Tim O'Connor


Re: ACCURAIL separate ladders & grabs

Andy Carlson
 

Perhaps the source of this confusion was the first runs of the Atlas hopper. I
heard that Atlas sent some published plans (Mainline Modeler?) to China, where
the car duplicated the error of the extra post printed on the plans across the
stapled page. I believe that Atlas corrected this error on later runs.
-Andy Carlson
Ojai CA




Remember, the Tichy USRA twin hopper is almost 18" too long.
Accurails, while having cast-on grabs, are the correct length.
Not so. See this photo comparing the two bodies:
http://www.pullmanproject.com/Hoppers%20compared.jpg

Tom Madden


Re: NC&StL (was GN) Flat Cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Ben Hom wrote

A builder's photo of NC&StL 70229 was published in the 1928 and 1931
issues of the Car Builders Cyclopedia.
... and that photo makes the car appear to be painted black.
Later photos from the 1950's appear to be oxide red.

Tim O'Connor


Re: ACCURAIL separate ladders & grabs

pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

Ray Breyer wrote:
Remember, the Tichy USRA twin hopper is almost 18" too long.
Accurails, while having cast-on grabs, are the correct length.
Not so. See this photo comparing the two bodies:
http://www.pullmanproject.com/Hoppers%20compared.jpg

Tom Madden


WPM This Saturday, September 18

dh30973
 

WPM 2010 - Western Prototype Modelers Meet

When: Saturday September 18, 2010
Where: San Bernardino Santa Fe Depot
1170 West Third Street. - San Bernardino, CA 92403
What Time: 9:00 AM to 6:00 PM

The west coast's largest gathering for railroad prototype modelers, now in it's 21st year!

Come to WPM and see hundreds of locomotive, freight and passenger car, caboose, MOW, structure, and vehicle prototype models on display while countless 1:1 scale BNSF and UP trains roll-by just feet from the depot.
Clinics and seminars will be offered throughout the day. Visit the San Bernardino Historical and Railroad Museum located in the west-end of the depot.
Tons of raffle prizes donated by generous hobby retailers, publishers & model manufacturers will be up for grabs.
Bring your modeling projects, finished, or "in the works". Share ideas and techniques with fellow modelers and meet new friends!

Registration starts at 8:30AM
Doors Open at 9:00AM

Scheduled Presentations start at 10:00
10:00 Butch Eyler – Weathering Freight Cars in the Modern Era
11:15 Scott Chatfield - All About 1st Generation GPs
12:15 Mini-Raffle and Lunch Break
1:30 Bill Schaumburg - An Introduction to Commuter Railroad Operations
2:45 Bob Zenk – SP's Krauss-Maffei: A Love-Hate Story
4:00 Chris Clune - Producing Models at ExactRail
5:00 Raffle Round 2

San Bernardino depot is served by both Amtrak and Metrolink. Links to schedules are posted on our web site.
Exhibitors: Manufacturers, photographers and publishers will participate in WPM (Exhibitors: pre-registration is required, contact WPM at the phone number below.)
For updated info on presentations, program, schedule and photos of past meets:
www.WesternPrototypeModelers.org or call Tim Costello at (714) 832-8696

WPM welcomes modelers of all roads, all scales and eras!

WPM Meet admission: $15.00, or $12.00 if you bring a model(s) to display

Plenty of free parking

Dave Hussey
WPM Committee


Re: ACCURAIL separate ladders & grabs

David Sieber
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Armand Premo" wrote: I have recently tried to upgrade an Accurail reefer. All went well until I tried to match the paint. I never knew there were so many different shades of yellow. What would you suggest that I use?
--- "Ken Olson" wrote: Doesn't their web site have a listing of which paint was used on which models? I seem to remember that all were Pollyscale, but that reefer yellow might not necessarily be what was used on a particular reefer.
--- "Armand Premo" wrote: Tried Five different brands of Reefer yellow without an acceptable match, Polly Scale included.

Gentlemen,

I suspect Ken was thinking of 5th Avenue Car Shops, who market excellent custom painted and lettered Accurail cars, and whose web site has a complete list of all current and previously issued cars by road number with Polly Scale references for matching the sides and ends of all their cars. I have not seen this on Accurail's web site for their own releases; note that on their Decal Renumber Set page, they advise that "There have been too many changes in paint formulation for us to be able to match the color of many of our older kits." I suspect that like many other manufacturers, Accurail uses commercial paint products rather than paint from any of the firms that market to modelers. Perhaps Dennis Storzek can comment on this.

When we modelers modify/upgrade cars to suit our needs, we can only try to match existing paint as best we can, then use weathering to blend the shades together. If you want to represent a newly delivered or repainted car, but you've replaced molded-on details, just bite the bullet and repaint and decal it. (Unless the car you want is available from 5th Avenue Car Shops, so you can get match the paint from Polly Scale per their paint reference ... until/unless Floquil changes the Polly Scale formulation.)

Good luck, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Re: ACCURAIL separate ladders & grabs

Benjamin Hom
 

Armand Premo wrote:
"Lack of slope sheet supports is also fixable..."

Know thy prototype - the USRA twins did not have slope sheet supports.  See the
linked photo in my previous post.


Ben Hom

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ACCURAIL separate ladders & grabs

Armand Premo
 

Ray ,I do not consider myself as a "Rivet Counter",but some things about the Accurail Twin hopper really bother me:Some of the detail parts are grossly cast and out of scale,The brake lever is an easy fix.Lack of slope sheet supports is also fixable as is missing interior detail.The unloading mechanism is poorly presented.The car also looks a bit too narrow.Having said all that,I am very pleased with their new triple hopper and gondola.Armand premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Ray Breyer
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 10:59 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: ACCURAIL separate ladders & grabs



>>How would you compare Accurail's twin hopper with
>>Tichy''s?Too much work needs to be done on Accurail's
>>car to make it an acceptable model IMHO.For those who
>>need large numbers of twin hoppers these are merely
>>stand ins.Armand Premo

Hi Armand,

Remember, the Tichy USRA twin hopper is almost 18" too long. Accurails, while having cast-on grabs, are the correct length. That in itself makes the Tichy (Gould) model much more of a foobie than the Accurail.

Accurail hoppers have VERY fine cast-on grabs. For those of us needing to assemble a FLEET of cars, they're pretty much good as-is out of the box. Add cut levers, maybe a few other SMALL free-standing details, and a quality weathering job, and they're done.

And remember: once the cars start rolling all those fine details disappear into a blur of browns and blacks. Superdetailing each and every car to super fine standards might be fun and earn brownie points, but it doesn't get the cars on a layout moving!

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL







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Re: ACCURAIL separate ladders & grabs

Benjamin Hom
 

Ray Breyer wrote:
"Remember, the Tichy USRA twin hopper is almost 18" too long. Accurails, while having cast-on grabs, are the correct length. That in itself makes the Tichy (Gould) model much more of a foobie than the Accurail."

Ray, where are you getting this? The length of the Tichy USRA twin is NOT the issue, and if you've got proof otherwise, I'd be happy to see your work.. The following side-by-side illustrates the issue with the Tichy model:
http://tinyurl.com/Prototype-Tichy-HO-USRA-Twin

The center two panels of the model are wider than prototype. Granted, it's not noticeable unless you look for it, but once you know it's there, it's like an itch you can't scratch.


Ben Hom


Re: Sale of Champ Decals

mforsyth127
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:

4/5/2010 Bill Pardie wrote

Is Champ still selling their decals? I placed an online order last
month and did not get a reply. I wasn't sure if it was them or my lack
of computer skills.

I made an order last week from Champ, and got an automated reply, but
there has been no other email nor any charge to my credit card. Someone
posted that Champ was shutting down... perhaps they already have?

I placed an order online last Wednesday (9-9), money was transfered from PayPal on 9-11, decals arrived this AM in the mail.


Matt Forsyth

Modeling the D&H Penn Division
Erie Jefferson Division
In O Scale, Summer 1952

http://mattforsyth.com

Visit my D&H Steam Era Yahoo Group at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheDandHintheSteamEra/


Re: ACCURAIL separate ladders & grabs

Armand Premo
 

Tried Five different brands of Reefer yellow without an acceptable match,Polly Scale included.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: ken_olson54022
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, September 13, 2010 9:53 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: ACCURAIL separate ladders & grabs





--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Armand Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:
>
> I have recently tried to upgrade an Accurail reefer.All went well until I tried to match the paint.I never knew there were so many different shades of yellow.What would you suggest that I use? Armand Premo
> -----

Doesn't their web site have a listing of which paint was used on which models? I seem to remember that all were Pollyscale, but that reefer yellow might not necessarily be what was used on a particular reefer....

Ken Olson






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Re: ACCURAIL separate ladders & grabs

Ray Breyer
 

How would you compare Accurail's twin hopper with
Tichy''s?Too much work needs to be done on Accurail's
car to make it an acceptable model IMHO.For those who
need large numbers of  twin hoppers these are merely
stand ins.Armand Premo
Hi Armand,

Remember, the Tichy USRA twin hopper is almost 18" too long. Accurails, while having cast-on grabs, are the correct length. That in itself makes the Tichy (Gould) model much more of a foobie than the Accurail.

Accurail hoppers have VERY fine cast-on grabs. For those of us needing to assemble a FLEET of cars, they're pretty much good as-is out of the box. Add cut levers, maybe a few other SMALL free-standing details, and a quality weathering job, and they're done.

And remember: once the cars start rolling all those fine details disappear into a blur of browns and blacks. Superdetailing each and every car to super fine standards might be fun and earn brownie points, but it doesn't get the cars on a layout moving!

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: NC&StL (was G N) Flat Cars

Mitchell Mercante
 

Bob,
 
NC&StL #70229, Class FM-9, was built by ACF in July 1926.  This car was the prototype for the Gould pattern.    It used Dahlman trucks and had straight sidesills with a fish belly centersill.  I believe the cars were first painted black but sometime later were painted brown.  I'm sure others can supply the color changeover dates. The brown (iron  oxide) was the newer paint scheme.  Additional information/photos are in the 1931 Car Builders Cyc. or reprinted in the Train Shed Cyc. No. 46.

Hope this helps.
 
Regards,
 
Mitch Mercante

--- On Mon, 9/13/10, trolleycar68 <68trolley@attbi.com> wrote:


From: trolleycar68 <68trolley@attbi.com>
Subject: [STMFC] NC&StL (was G N) Flat Cars
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, September 13, 2010, 9:21 AM




--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "trolleycar68" <68trolley@...> wrote:
Stay tuned, I may come begging here yet again.


A friend (and member here) scanned the insert in the set of Champ decals that I have ordered.  The immediate question is do any of you know what color the TICHY flat car kits were painted for this road?  The info on the decal sheet suggests black or iron oxide, but not which one.  I could start painting now while waiting for the mail.

The sheet also suggests a number of 70229; do any of you know if this is a correct number or the series the cars may have had?

The kit in question is sold by TICHY as their Kit 4021 and is said to be a 40' fifty ton flat car and has straight side sills, not fishbelly.  The claim is that it was built by AC&F in 1928 for the NC&StL.

At this point it is obvious to me not to assume anything or to trust to how things might be described by someone selling that item.  The current example is the set of decals from Portland Car & Foundry cataloged as a GN set FOR THIS KIT, when I now find out the GN never had any such cars, and the decal sheet lettering is sized and arranged that it CANNOT be applied to the car.

I do not want to be a pest tying up the message board here so if this is too detailed a question or inappropriate please send an e mail response.

Thanks again

Bob Kutella



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links








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Re: NC&StL (was GN) Flat Cars

Benjamin Hom
 

Bob Kutella asked:
“A friend (and member here) scanned the insert in the set of Champ decals that I
have ordered. The immediate question is do any of you know what color the TICHY
flat car kits were painted for this road? The info on the decal sheet suggests
black or iron oxide, but not which one.”
 
Brian Carlson posted the same question earlier last week.  To date, nobody has
posted an answer.  If you have two Tichy kits (or have one of the Ertl models on
hand that models the same prototype), you can paint one black and the other red!
 
“The sheet also suggests a number of 70229; do any of you know if this is a
correct number or the series the cars may have had?  The kit in question is sold
by TICHY as their Kit 4021 and is said to be a 40' fifty ton flat car and has
straight side sills, not fishbelly. The claim is that it was built by AC&F in
1928 for the NC&StL.”
 
NC&StL bought these cars in two batches:
NC&StL 70100-70199, 1923
NC&StL 70200-70299, 1926
 
A builder’s photo of NC&StL 70229 was published in the 1928 and 1931 issues of
the Car Builders Cyclopedia.
 
See Richard Hendrickson’s article in the June 1993 issue of Railmodel Journal
for more information on this and other potential prototypes for this kit.
 
 
Ben Hom

90541 - 90560 of 183572