Date   

(No subject)

Jon Cagle <jscagle@...>
 


Re: Accurail single-sheathed box cars and SL-SF single-sheathed box cars

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Thanks to all who responded to my inquiry. After all your help with my research it is clear that none of these models, whether Sunshine, Westerfield or Accurail, are correct for the SLSF cars I need to represent. I consider this case closed.

But I'm gonna go read the RP Cyc articles anyway.

Gene Green


Re: Accurail single-sheathed box cars and SL-SF single-sheathed box cars

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Rich,
You have confirmed my impression. Thanks.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@..., cinderandeight@... wrote:

Gene,
The earliest ad for Union Metal Products dreadnaught ends that I have
seen appeared in the March 31 1928 issue of Railway Age on page 32 of the
advertisement section. Perhaps a slightly earlier ad appeared, but I
haven't seen it. Ads for UMP in 1927 all featured various corrugated drop doors
for gondolas, and hoppers. These early dreadnaught ends were of a 3-3-3
configuration.
Rich Burg


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Accurail single-sheathed box cars and SL-SF single-sheathed box cars.

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Ben,
You make a couple of important points.
<snip>
Gene Green asked:
<snip>
Does Accurail 7203 possess the correct basic set of features - ends, roof, sides, doors - for SL-SF 34328?"
--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:

No, because you left out a critical basic feature - height. Remember, to accurately model transition era freight trains, you have to capture a variety of car heights and and textures.
I agree. This feature is quite visible in photos and films from the immediate post war years. The proper balance also needs to be struck among double-sheathed box cars, single-sheathed box cars and all-steel cars.

I have a roster of freight cars I wish to have represented. For most cars on the roster I have been able to note their major features. Adding height from the ORER would not be too difficult.

I really should dig out all my present freight cars and look at them as a cohesive whole, rather than individual cars, and see if the whole meets my expectation of what the balance of car types and heights should look like.

To fill in the blanks on the other responses:

- The Sunshine kits are the one featured in the following flyers:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun39a.pdf
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun39b.pdf

- The Joe Pennington article on these cars appeared in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Volume 1 (still available from the publisher), with supplemental material appearing in Volume 2 (sold out). There was no article in volume 3.


Gene also asked:
"Somehow I have a copy of "General Arrangement of Outside Steel Frame 40-Ton Frisco Box Car" from Railway Age Gazette, Mechanical Edition, October 1912, page 558. Surely there must have been an article on adjacent pages with more information. There is no end view on my page. The car in the drawing has:
6-panel sides
ladders
wood door
fish-belly underframe
KC air brake
Plate A or vertical staff hand brake
Wood running boards
Outside metal roof of some sort

It appears as if either a model from the Accurail "7000 Series 6-panel Wood Boxcar with Wood Doors & Wood Ends" or the "7200 Series 6-Panel Wood Boxcar with Wood Doors & Dreadnaught Ends" might be a suitable model for the car in the drawing depending upon whether or not the car in the drawing has Dreadnaught ends.

Does anyone have additional information on these 1912 Frisco single-sheathed box cars? Were they ever built?"

If the car in your general arrangement had a "sawtooth" truss design, these are the cars in question:
http://www.westerfield.biz/11201_80066.htm
http://www.westerfield.biz/11251_80098.htm

The Accurail models are stand-ins at best, and 1912 is too early for Dreadnaught ends.
Yep, the Westerfield cars match the drawing I have. And you have confirmed my opinion of the Dreadnaught ends.

Gene Green
Out in the badlands of New Mexico


Re: Accurail single-sheathed box cars and SL-SF single-sheathed box cars.

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., cepropst@... wrote:

There is an article on the Frisco cars in an early RP cyc. #2-3?

Sunshine offers the correct kit. I think in both wood and steel sheathing?

Clark Propst

Clark,
You have touched upon a couple of my shortcomings.

First, I haven't created an overall index to my RP Cycs but I really should. The RP Cys are some of the best reference material in my collection.

Second, I have yet to assemble my first Sunshine or Westerfield kit. I suffer, apparently, from resin-angst.

Actually, to some extent or another, I am moving away from accuracy and fidelity to prototype in favor of ready-to-run and durability. If I ever get my building erected -25' x 60' building is on hand but $6,000-$7,000 for concrete foundation is not - I don't want visiting engineers or conductors unintentionally damaging a resin car while rerailing it.

Gene Green


Re: Accurail single-sheathed box cars and SL-SF single-sheathed box cars.

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "lnbill" <fgexbill@...> wrote:
<snip>
The stenciling on the Accurail car looks pretty much like my Sunshine model.
Bill Welch
Bill,
May I infer then that the Accurail stenciling is suitable for 1950 and earlier?
Gene Green


Re: Wheelset Jig

Tim O'Connor
 

A hobby shop where I go has fresh Tenax in stock... (regarding rumors
it is discontinued). No Tenax is not the same as Pro-Weld or Tamiya. I
use Pro-Weld with old style Plastruct, which is ABS.

Tim O'Connor

Micro-Mark used to say in their catalogs that Same Stuff is the same
stuff as Tenax. Presumably, they received a nice letter in the mail
and stopped making the comparison. Does that mean that Tenax is the
same stuff as Ambroid Pro-Weld?

-Clark Cooper

On Sep 26, 2010, at 8:32 AM, RDG2124 wrote:


Same Stuff -- if not the same formula as Ambroid's Pro-Weld, it
works the same. Ambroid's Pro-Weld was one of three styrene glues I
use, Same Stuff has replaced it. No differences noted.


Re: Wheelset Jig

Clark Cooper
 

Micro-Mark used to say in their catalogs that Same Stuff is the same stuff as Tenax. Presumably, they received a nice letter in the mail and stopped making the comparison. Does that mean that Tenax is the same stuff as Ambroid Pro-Weld?

-Clark Cooper

On Sep 26, 2010, at 8:32 AM, RDG2124 wrote:


Same Stuff -- if not the same formula as Ambroid's Pro-Weld, it works the same. Ambroid's Pro-Weld was one of three styrene glues I use, Same Stuff has replaced it. No differences noted.

Evan Leisey
Bennett, CO


Re: Accurail single-sheathed box cars and SL-SF single-sheathed box cars.

jerryglow2
 

They do indeed make both the steel side rebuild w/ outside bracing and two different board width outside braced wood ones.

Jerry Glow
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals/

--- In STMFC@..., cepropst@... wrote:

There is an article on the Frisco cars in an early RP cyc. #2-3?

Sunshine offers the correct kit. I think in both wood and steel sheathing?

Clark Propst


Re: PRR/N&W H30a Covered Hoppers

Mark
 

During my teen years I remember the PC switching these at Mt.Vernon OH. They would take the empty cars to Millwood to be loaded. Now a pikepath!

Mark Morgan

--- On Sun, 9/26/10, Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...> wrote:

From: Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: PRR/N&W H30a Covered Hoppers
To: STMFC@...
Date: Sunday, September 26, 2010, 12:34 PM







 









And done some very, very, nice work on it--even if the prototype is outside the purview of STMFC.



Steve Lucas.



--- In STMFC@..., "cf5250" <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Tom
Evidently, someone has finished a Railshop H30! :-)
http://www.modeltrainsweathered.com/hdpchopper.jpg
Tim O'Connor
--- In STMFC@..., "haagtk" <haagtk@> wrote:
Good luck on the kit. I purchased one and I also got the basic shell done......then gave up. I had problems trying to get the brake to sit in properly and I was not sure exactly how the ladder cage assembly would fit correctly. I think I gave up when I realized the final product would not be worth the aggrevation of the rest of the assembly. I have not been that fustrated since trying to assemble the F&C version of this car....which succumbed to the "stomp" factor.
I am not new to resin kits and have assembled a number of Rail Yard Model kits.
Curious if anyone else out there have actually finished one of these Railshop H30 covered hoppers?
-Tom Haag


Re: PRR/N&W H30a Covered Hoppers

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

And done some very, very, nice work on it--even if the prototype is outside the purview of STMFC.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "cf5250" <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Tom

Evidently, someone has finished a Railshop H30! :-)

http://www.modeltrainsweathered.com/hdpchopper.jpg

Tim O'Connor

--- In STMFC@..., "haagtk" <haagtk@> wrote:

Good luck on the kit. I purchased one and I also got the basic shell done......then gave up. I had problems trying to get the brake to sit in properly and I was not sure exactly how the ladder cage assembly would fit correctly. I think I gave up when I realized the final product would not be worth the aggrevation of the rest of the assembly. I have not been that fustrated since trying to assemble the F&C version of this car....which succumbed to the "stomp" factor.

I am not new to resin kits and have assembled a number of Rail Yard Model kits.

Curious if anyone else out there have actually finished one of these Railshop H30 covered hoppers?

-Tom Haag


Re: Accurail single-sheathed box cars and SL-SF single-sheathed box cars.

Benjamin Hom
 

Gene Green asked:
"Accurail offers a single-sheathed box car (#7203) lettered for SL-SF 34328, lettered built 1936, re-weighed 1951 with 6-panel sides, wood doors, Dreadnaught ends, ladders (instead of grab irons), a vertical-wheel power hand brake and a fish-belly underframe. I assume the model has wood running boards.

Does Accurail 7203 possess the correct basic set of features - ends, roof, sides, doors - for SL-SF 34328?"

No, because you left out a critical basic feature - height. Remember, to accurately model transition era freight trains, you have to capture a variety of car heights and and textures. The SL-SF prototype cars were 8 ft 6 in IH cars; the Accurail model is a 9 ft IH car and is six inches too tall. Fixing this on a SS model is nearly impossible - you simply can't cut down the model 6 inches because the truss members no longer line up after you cut out the excess material and make the splice.

The Accurail models do fill an important place in model car fleets, as the different variations cam be used to accruately model or stand in for similar 9 ft IH cars. However, modelers shouldn't overuse them as they'll make the single sheathed boxcars in the fleet look too homogenous, much as the typical overuse of AAR boxcars and PS-1s make many transition era layouts look like they have 1960s era car fleets.

To fill in the blanks on the other responses:

- The Sunshine kits are the one featured in the following flyers:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun39a.pdf
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun39b.pdf

- The Joe Pennington article on these cars appeared in Railway Prototype Cyclopedia Volume 1 (still available from the publisher), with supplemental material appearing in Volume 2 (sold out). There was no article in volume 3.


Gene also asked:
"Somehow I have a copy of "General Arrangement of Outside Steel Frame 40-Ton Frisco Box Car" from Railway Age Gazette, Mechanical Edition, October 1912, page 558. Surely there must have been an article on adjacent pages with more information. There is no end view on my page. The car in the drawing has:
6-panel sides
ladders
wood door
fish-belly underframe
KC air brake
Plate A or vertical staff hand brake
Wood running boards
Outside metal roof of some sort

It appears as if either a model from the Accurail "7000 Series 6-panel Wood Boxcar with Wood Doors & Wood Ends" or the "7200 Series 6-Panel Wood Boxcar with Wood Doors & Dreadnaught Ends" might be a suitable model for the car in the drawing depending upon whether or not the car in the drawing has Dreadnaught ends.

Does anyone have additional information on these 1912 Frisco single-sheathed box cars? Were they ever built?"

If the car in your general arrangement had a "sawtooth" truss design, these are the cars in question:
http://www.westerfield.biz/11201_80066.htm
http://www.westerfield.biz/11251_80098.htm

The Accurail models are stand-ins at best, and 1912 is too early for Dreadnaught ends.


Ben Hom


Re: Accurail single-sheathed box cars and SL-SF single-sheathed box cars.

Clark Propst
 

There is an article on the Frisco cars in an early RP cyc. #2-3?

Sunshine offers the correct kit. I think in both wood and steel sheathing?

Clark Propst


Re: Wheelset Jig

RDG2124 <RDG2124@...>
 

Same Stuff -- if not the same formula as Ambroid's Pro-Weld, it works the same. Ambroid's Pro-Weld was one of three styrene glues I use, Same Stuff has replaced it. No differences noted.


Evan Leisey
Bennett, CO

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian J Carlson <prrk41361@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sat, Sep 25, 2010 11:00 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Wheelset Jig




Ambroid Pro-weld? It's still available out here in NY. Micro-Mark sells "Same Stuff" which is intentionally packaged similar to Ambroid and it works too.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@...

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of cobrapsl@...
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 12:53 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Wheelset Jig

Damn Brian, I did not that still even made that stuff! Thanks
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian J Carlson <prrk41361@... <mailto:prrk41361%40yahoo.com>; >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>;
Sent: Sat, Sep 25, 2010 9:26 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Wheelset Jig

Ambroid liquid worked perfectly for me.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@... <mailto:prrk41361%40yahoo.com>;

From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>; [mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>; ] On Behalf Of
asychis@... <mailto:asychis%40aol.com>;
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 7:36 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>;
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Wheelset Jig

AMB/Laserkit's wheelset jig works very well. I use it frequently. My only
problem with it was that it is made from acrylic and is difficult to
assemble. MEK does not work and ACC only somewhat. The instructions lists
the
adhesive to use, but I did not get any for this one-time job.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: PRR/N&W H30a Covered Hoppers

Tim O'Connor
 

Tom

Evidently, someone has finished a Railshop H30! :-)

http://www.modeltrainsweathered.com/hdpchopper.jpg

Tim O'Connor

--- In STMFC@..., "haagtk" <haagtk@...> wrote:

Good luck on the kit. I purchased one and I also got the basic shell done......then gave up. I had problems trying to get the brake to sit in properly and I was not sure exactly how the ladder cage assembly would fit correctly. I think I gave up when I realized the final product would not be worth the aggrevation of the rest of the assembly. I have not been that fustrated since trying to assemble the F&C version of this car....which succumbed to the "stomp" factor.

I am not new to resin kits and have assembled a number of Rail Yard Model kits.

Curious if anyone else out there have actually finished one of these Railshop H30 covered hoppers?

-Tom Haag


Re: Accurail single-sheathed box cars and SL-SF single-sheathed box cars

cinderandeight@...
 

Gene,
The earliest ad for Union Metal Products dreadnaught ends that I have
seen appeared in the March 31 1928 issue of Railway Age on page 32 of the
advertisement section. Perhaps a slightly earlier ad appeared, but I
haven't seen it. Ads for UMP in 1927 all featured various corrugated drop doors
for gondolas, and hoppers. These early dreadnaught ends were of a 3-3-3
configuration.
Rich Burg


Re: Wheelset Jig

Brian Carlson
 

Ambroid Pro-weld? It's still available out here in NY. Micro-Mark sells "Same Stuff" which is intentionally packaged similar to Ambroid and it works too.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@...



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of cobrapsl@...
Sent: Sunday, September 26, 2010 12:53 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Wheelset Jig





Damn Brian, I did not that still even made that stuff! Thanks
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian J Carlson <prrk41361@... <mailto:prrk41361%40yahoo.com> >
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Sep 25, 2010 9:26 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Wheelset Jig

Ambroid liquid worked perfectly for me.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@... <mailto:prrk41361%40yahoo.com>

From: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> ] On Behalf Of
asychis@... <mailto:asychis%40aol.com>
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 7:36 PM
To: STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Wheelset Jig

AMB/Laserkit's wheelset jig works very well. I use it frequently. My only
problem with it was that it is made from acrylic and is difficult to
assemble. MEK does not work and ACC only somewhat. The instructions lists
the
adhesive to use, but I did not get any for this one-time job.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Wheelset Jig

Paul Lyons
 

Damn Brian, I did not that still even made that stuff! Thanks
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Brian J Carlson <prrk41361@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sat, Sep 25, 2010 9:26 pm
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Wheelset Jig




Ambroid liquid worked perfectly for me.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@...

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
asychis@...
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 7:36 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Wheelset Jig

AMB/Laserkit's wheelset jig works very well. I use it frequently. My only
problem with it was that it is made from acrylic and is difficult to
assemble. MEK does not work and ACC only somewhat. The instructions lists
the
adhesive to use, but I did not get any for this one-time job.









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Wheelset Jig

Brian Carlson
 

Ambroid liquid worked perfectly for me.



Brian J. Carlson, P.E.

Cheektowaga NY

prrk41361@...



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
asychis@...
Sent: Saturday, September 25, 2010 7:36 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Wheelset Jig





AMB/Laserkit's wheelset jig works very well. I use it frequently. My only
problem with it was that it is made from acrylic and is difficult to
assemble. MEK does not work and ACC only somewhat. The instructions lists
the
adhesive to use, but I did not get any for this one-time job.


Re: Wheelset Jig

RDG2124 <RDG2124@...>
 

A buddy gave up on gluing his and replacing the cross pieces with a block of wood and wood screws.


Evan Leisey
Bennett, CO

-----Original Message-----
From: asychis@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Sat, Sep 25, 2010 5:35 pm
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Wheelset Jig




AMB/Laserkit's wheelset jig works very well. I use it frequently. My only
problem with it was that it is made from acrylic and is difficult to
assemble. MEK does not work and ACC only somewhat. The instructions lists the
adhesive to use, but I did not get any for this one-time job.

Jerry Michels

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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