Date   

Re: C&O 12392-12999 single door boxcars

Larry Sexton
 

I believe the Climax roof from Sunshine Models kit 38.1 may work. It's for a
SP B-50-15 boxcar. Glad to see someone has a different topic for discussion.



Larry Sexton





From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
octoraro1948
Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 10:18 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] C&O 12392-12999 single door boxcars





I have a waybill for C&O 12889 and wish to model the car. In 2005 and last
October (2009) there were some discussions about C&O's 12000-series auto box
cars. From those discussions, I understand that this single door car was in
the series 12392-12999 rebuilt from ex-Hocking Valley double-sheathed cars
in 1941 and 1942 with steel sides. The discussion said the 8'-8" interior
height was retained as were the 7/8 inverse Murphy ends and the Z-section
steel frame was visible along the side sills below the floor line. Another
post said that Climax radial roofs were used. None of the posts I saw
identified the type of door, the opening of which was 6'-6" x 8'-2", used on
the rebuilt cars.

I've been looking for HO models to use as a basis for this car that will
need, I imagine, scratchbuilt sides and a Climax radial roof from some other
kit.

I would appreciate any suggestions for modeling this car and sources for
diagrams, drawings, or photos of these rebuilt single door boxcars.

Thank you.

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ


Re: Pickle Cars

Allen Cain <allencain@...>
 

The pickle car article was in the November 1956 Model Railroader as a
"Dollar Car Project".



Allen Cain


C&O 12392-12999 single door boxcars

octoraro1948 <octoraro1@...>
 

I have a waybill for C&O 12889 and wish to model the car. In 2005 and last October (2009) there were some discussions about C&O's 12000-series auto box cars. From those discussions, I understand that this single door car was in the series 12392-12999 rebuilt from ex-Hocking Valley double-sheathed cars in 1941 and 1942 with steel sides. The discussion said the 8'-8" interior height was retained as were the 7/8 inverse Murphy ends and the Z-section steel frame was visible along the side sills below the floor line. Another post said that Climax radial roofs were used. None of the posts I saw identified the type of door, the opening of which was 6'-6" x 8'-2", used on the rebuilt cars.

I've been looking for HO models to use as a basis for this car that will need, I imagine, scratchbuilt sides and a Climax radial roof from some other kit.

I would appreciate any suggestions for modeling this car and sources for diagrams, drawings, or photos of these rebuilt single door boxcars.

Thank you.

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ


Re: UP lettering

Tim O'Connor
 

Jerry, if you do UP cars here is a problem I ran into lately:
there is a dearth of UP reweigh/lube dates for the middle 1950's
up to 1965, when the practice of reweigh stencils ended. I've
been trying to find yellow stencils now (for a bunch of cars) but
UP also had white, red and black lettering in this era.

For that matter, Ted Culotta's SP decals and many Sunshine decals
also heavily lean toward the 1940's and often there is only one or
two choices for dates in the middle 50's and later. As a last resort
I use the Champ sets but the lettering is the wrong size, font, or
contrasts in color (Champ white is not opaque).

I think about 80-85% of the cars I model need reweigh dates and it's
definitely a challenge to find the decals!

Tim O'

Thanks Richard. I may not have been clear enough: I was referring to the built date and location which I've found on some in Metcalf's book. Guess I'll have to make them as they are not present in yellow on Speedwitch's set. I was going to do some data for 10'6" IH cars anyway...

Jerry Glow

Here's a list of common UP shop symbols where reweighing was done:
AR = Argo (Seattle) AT = Albina Terminal (Portland), OR + CB =
Council Bluffs, IA CH = Cheyenne, WY COL = Columbus, NE DE =
Denver + GI = Grand Island, NE + GR = Green River, WY LA = Los
Angeles NP = North Platte, NE NA = Nampa, ID OG = Ogden, UT OM =
Omaha + PO = Pocatello, ID WW = Walla Walla, WA (a + indicates a
larger shop where heavy repairs and repainting was carried out).


Re: RPM Etiquette

pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

I'll stick my oar into this and just say that I'm pretty sure that the miscreant in question is a regular at Naperville and should have known better but clearly didn't give a damn.
Bit of the old entitlement attitude...
Pierre Oliver
Nah, it's an ego thing. Each of us fancies ourself an expert modeler, but that's always relative. Compared to Ted's models, my best ones look like they were done by Quasimodo on a bad day. Most of us can make the mental adjustment when confronted by really outstanding models, and humble ourselves accordingly. But some can't, and they tell themselves that they are as good as or better than the creator of the model at hand, and perfectly capable of handling it safely. So they do.

Tom "The bells, the bells!" Madden


Santa Fe Mini Meet Reminder

Keith Jordan
 

Here's a reminder of an upcoming exciting event just a week away:

The 23rd Annual Santa Fe Mini Meet in Kansas City
At the Old Mission Methodist Church November 13, 2010

Program Lineup:
Jeff Needham - The Colorado Northern
Bob Walz - The Santa Fe in Western Kansas
Mike Martin - The Santa Fe-SP Merger
Paul Nash - York Canyon

Admission $5 at the doors; doors open at 8am; programs begin at 9am

Lunch will be available for $6 which includes chili or chili dogs and the fixin's

Swap tables available. There will be a large estate sale of HO scale kits, cars and locomotives at low, low prices.

For additional information and directions, go to:

http://web.mac.com/ckjordan/KC_Mini_Meet/Home.html

See you there!

Keith Jordan


Pickles car - thanks

Bill Lane
 

Thanks to all that replied to my inquiry. It is appreciated.



I got some information. Ironically the first thing I may look into is what
to do for decals. (Its S Scale remember) The car is not as interesting
without the unique decals. I want the scheme with the large PICKLES on the
side.



It is just the hottest thing in the projects du jour list.







Thank You,
Bill Lane

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1988

See my finished models at:
<http://www.lanestrains.com/> http://www.lanestrains.com
Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale!

Custom Train Parts Design
<http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm>
http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm

PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded
(Trading is MUCH preferred)
<http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls>
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls

***Join the PRR T&HS***
The other members are not ALL like me!
<http://www.prrths.com/> http://www.prrths.com
<http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf>
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf

Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society
It's FREE to join! <http://www.prslhs.com/> http://www.prslhs.com
Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL


Re: RPM Etiquette

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

As fun as it is to grumble that everything and everybody was markedly better in the ol' days, I think you find people writing letters and columns in MR in the 1940s and 1950s complaining about layout vistors putting their paws on the trains. You can also find photos of displays from that period where the hat-wearing gentlemen and pearl-wearing ladies of the age are kept separate from the display by ropes or barriers so they are not even tempted to touch things. I know I have seen a photo from way back there where a "DO NOT TOUCH THE TRAINS" sign was visible.

Not everything bad started in 1967 . . .

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: tugricktug2000

I would say the fact that most modern-day parents don't seem to follow this plan of action anymore would explain it (can';t stifle Junior's curiousity), but most of the guys who go to these shows are not that young LOL. So the cause is simple ignorance.

It's sad that IMHO to put the kybosh on this, the organizers of the shows will have to put up DO NOT TOUCH THE MODELS signs all over the room, preferably with graphics for those who can't read or speak English, and police it in order to stop this behavior. For every one of us who rightly understands this philosophy there is at least one other who thinks it's their God-given right to do as they please and handle everything. Maybe it's a 60s thing...if it feels good do it.

Rick Schoch
PRRT&HS #8245


Re: RPM Etiquette

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Bear in mind that this discussion is in the context of judging the models in contests. They have never tolerated handling by passers-by.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: VINCE PUGLIESE

Here is another recent take on the same subject:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/149674/message/1288760222/IPMS+handling+of+models

For those unfamiliar, IPMS is the International Plastic Modelers Society
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Plastic_Modellers'_Society) and is
somewhat akin to the NMRA for static/scale modeling.

.


Re: UP lettering

jerryglow2
 

Thanks Richard. I may not have been clear enough: I was referring to the built date and location which I've found on some in Metcalf's book. Guess I'll have to make them as they are not present in yellow on Speedwitch's set. I was going to do some data for 10'6" IH cars anyway...

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@...> wrote:

On Nov 3, 2010, at 5:27 AM, Gerald Glow wrote:

I'm working on a UP B-50-24 using an Intermountain kit with Archer ACR
rivets and Speedwitch's excellent decal set. Since I model early 50's
the lettering will be all yellow and I noticed the "shop code" for the
location built is not on the set in yellow. Would that be something
that
would not have been restenciled upon a repaint?
Jerry, the shop code would certainly have been repainted, along with
everything else. Usually, a repainted car was reweighed and the shop
code and date indicated where and when the repainting was done. But
not always. In any case, the shop code and date would have been re-
stenciled. So the course of wisdom would be to include a variety of
shop codes and dates in your data decal set.

Here's a list of common UP shop symbols where reweighing was done:
AR = Argo (Seattle) AT = Albina Terminal (Portland), OR + CB =
Council Bluffs, IA CH = Cheyenne, WY COL = Columbus, NE DE =
Denver + GI = Grand Island, NE + GR = Green River, WY LA = Los
Angeles NP = North Platte, NE NA = Nampa, ID OG = Ogden, UT OM =
Omaha + PO = Pocatello, ID WW = Walla Walla, WA (a + indicates a
larger shop where heavy repairs and repainting was carried out).

In yellow, no dates before mid-1947.


Richard Hendrickson





Re: Accurail 8500 Series Reefer

rwitt_2000
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bob C" <thecitrusbelt@...> wrote:

Accurail has announced a forty-foot steel plug door refrigerator car.
Here is the link:

http://www.accurail.com/accurail/8500.htm

From the listing of road names it appears this will be either a
generic refrigerator car or perhaps a car based on a specific prototype
but offered in multiple paint schemes.

Does anyone know more about this car? The previous comment on this
car last July seemed a little vague.

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA

8500 Series 40' Steel Plug
Door Refrigerator car $14.98
8500...Undecorated
8501...Santa Fe
8502...Burlington Route
8503...GN (WFEX)
8504...Pacific Fruit Express
8505...Great Northern (Lg. Herald)
8506...Fruit Growers Express
8507...National Car Company
8508...Burlington Northern
8509...Milwaukee Road
8510...ART-Wabash/MoPac
8594...Data Only Orange
8595...Data Only Yellow
This response from Bill Welch seems specific:

"The hinge door swing door example from Accurail appears to be an
accurate representation of one group of 250 cars (WFEX 68400-68640)
built for WFE by Pacific Car &Foundry in 1949 characterized by the
hinges more or less shaped like a"home plate," double rows of rivets,
and 7' 6" doors. The door height will make this a problematic kit to
rework to represent other post-1948 FGE/WFE/BRE/NX cars. I will buy one
undecorated to carve and sculpt a WFE model. The model appears to lack
the fan drive mechanism representations, which will be easy to add. I
will be curious to see what brake wheel they do, generic or actual.

The center sill step appears accurate for the WFE hinged door model but
is not accurate for any FGE/WFE/BRE/NX sliding door reefer. Aside from
this easy fix, this appears to a good representation of most of the
FGE/WFE/BRE/NX sliding door fleet. There were some variations of the
improved Dreadnaught end within the sliding door cars. Again there is no
fan mechanism represented.

As I already have several Sunshine kits to do the sliding door cars, I
will probably buy only one undecorated of this model to carve and sculpt
and rework the sill to model a FGE 1949 PC&F steel rebuild of a
wood-sheathed car (FGEX 59900-59999). - Bill Welch"

Bob Witt


Re: Pickles car

frograbbit602
 

Bill in addition to the HO drawing of the Heinz pickle car which appeared in the July 1954 Railroad Model Craftsman another drawing with prototype car dimensions appeared in the December 1941 issue of The Model Craftsman. The 41 MC drawing shows the door rests attached to the wood running board when the six hinged roof sections were opened to gain access to the pickle tanks inside. The 54 RMC plan does not show this detail. I am getting this data from my notes on two pickle cars I built some years ago. I am sorry I can not find my copy of the 41 MC drawing which I remember I obtained from the Kalmbach Memorial Library for a copy fee and postage.

Lester Breuer

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Lane" <bill@...> wrote:

All,



I am hoping to find some drawings and/or photos of the Heinz Pickle car.
While I like the car with the exposed tanks I am more interested in the
"gondola" type. I saw it in a car builders I have but no plans were there.
They are for a project I want to do - a "good enough" run of 2 or 3 cars as
possibly my first scratchbuilding effort in S.. I could go for an HO plan
with a few basic dimensions if necessary or if there is a close (&
inexpensive) HO plastic car I could use for a reference.




Please reply directly with what you have.





Thank You,
Bill Lane

Modeling the Mighty Pennsy & PRSL in 1957 in S Scale since 1988

See my finished models at:
<http://www.lanestrains.com/> http://www.lanestrains.com
Look at what has been made in PRR in S Scale!

Custom Train Parts Design
<http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm>
http://www.lanestrains.com/SolidWorks_Modeling.htm

PRR Builders Photos Bought, Sold & Traded
(Trading is MUCH preferred)
<http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls>
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRphotos.xls

***Join the PRR T&HS***
The other members are not ALL like me!
<http://www.prrths.com/> http://www.prrths.com
<http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf>
http://www.lanestrains.com/PRRTHS_Application.pdf

Join the Pennsylvania Reading Seashore Lines Historical Society
It's FREE to join! <http://www.prslhs.com/> http://www.prslhs.com
Preserving The Memory Of The PRSL





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: RPM Etiquette

spsalso
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre" <pierre.oliver@> wrote:

I'll stick my oar into this and just say that I'm pretty sure that the miscreant in question is a regular at Naperville and should have known better but clearly didn't give a damn.
Bit of the old entitlement attitude...
Pierre Oliver
Probably the best solution is to cover your model with a glass bell jar, and install a large hairy spider to keep it company.

That ought to solve the problem.

Dennis (just trying to be helpful) Storzek
Only if the spider can read the sign next to the model.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


Re: RPM Etiquette

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Pierre" <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:

I'll stick my oar into this and just say that I'm pretty sure that the miscreant in question is a regular at Naperville and should have known better but clearly didn't give a damn.
Bit of the old entitlement attitude...
Pierre Oliver
Probably the best solution is to cover your model with a glass bell jar, and install a large hairy spider to keep it company.

That ought to solve the problem.

Dennis (just trying to be helpful) Storzek


Re: RPM Etiquette

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

I'll stick my oar into this and just say that I'm pretty sure that the miscreant in question is a regular at Naperville and should have known better but clearly didn't give a damn.
Bit of the old entitlement attitude...
Pierre Oliver



Let me offer up the quaint thought that, as far as meets like this are concerned, maybe bigger isn't always better??? This sort of get-together always starts out with just the hardcore type modelers and, as the attendance over the years expands to include the less knowledgeable, these sorts of problems begin to crop up. Sometimes the whole event starts to shrivel up because the hardcore types get tired of putting their (models, street rods, wood carvings, whatever) at risk and go off somewhere else and meet amongst themselves.
And the cycle starts over......

Ken Olson


Re: Pickle Cars

nvrr49 <nvrr49@...>
 

Model Railroader November 1956 has one. I have a scan of the article if anyone would like it, just drop me an email off group and I will send it to you.

Kent in KC

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, raildata@... wrote:

There was an article in Model Railroader about 25 years ago that described a
pickle loading facility. Also talked about the industry.

Chuck Yungkurth
Boulder CO


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: RPM Etiquette

aaejj2j
 

I agree with the idea of adding the signs. A new attendee may not realize the work that went into a model, how delicate it may be, and how important it is to the owner. I found that with my father years ago that to him they were all that $1.29 Varney except some looked better. He was careful but he just did not understand the importance and value to the owner. After I explained to him he had some understanding. I know that you expect RPM attendees to be better informed but it may not always be a lack of respect but some misunderstanding.
Tyrone Johnsen
Rockford, IL

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "mike brock" <brockm@...> wrote:
However, the point is well taken that models should not be
handled at RPM meets...or anywhere...without permission from the owner. We
may need to add some Do Not Handle signs on the display tables at Cocoa
Beach this coming Jan.

Mike Brock


Re: UP lettering

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 3, 2010, at 5:27 AM, Gerald Glow wrote:

I'm working on a UP B-50-24 using an Intermountain kit with Archer ACR
rivets and Speedwitch's excellent decal set. Since I model early 50's
the lettering will be all yellow and I noticed the "shop code" for the
location built is not on the set in yellow. Would that be something
that
would not have been restenciled upon a repaint?
Jerry, the shop code would certainly have been repainted, along with
everything else. Usually, a repainted car was reweighed and the shop
code and date indicated where and when the repainting was done. But
not always. In any case, the shop code and date would have been re-
stenciled. So the course of wisdom would be to include a variety of
shop codes and dates in your data decal set.

Here's a list of common UP shop symbols where reweighing was done:
AR = Argo (Seattle) AT = Albina Terminal (Portland), OR + CB =
Council Bluffs, IA CH = Cheyenne, WY COL = Columbus, NE DE =
Denver + GI = Grand Island, NE + GR = Green River, WY LA = Los
Angeles NP = North Platte, NE NA = Nampa, ID OG = Ogden, UT OM =
Omaha + PO = Pocatello, ID WW = Walla Walla, WA (a + indicates a
larger shop where heavy repairs and repainting was carried out).

In yellow, no dates before mid-1947.


Richard Hendrickson


Re: RPM Etiquette

ken_olson54022 <kwolson@...>
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "tugricktug2000" <tuggernaut@...> wrote:

I would say the fact that most modern-day parents don't seem to follow this plan of action anymore would explain it (can';t stifle Junior's curiousity), but most of the guys who go to these shows are not that young LOL. So the cause is simple ignorance.

It's sad that IMHO to put the kybosh on this, the organizers of the shows will have to put up DO NOT TOUCH THE MODELS signs all over the room, preferably with graphics for those who can't read or speak English, and police it in order to stop this behavior. For every one of us who rightly understands this philosophy there is at least one other who thinks it's their God-given right to do as they please and handle everything. Maybe it's a 60s thing...if it feels good do it.

Rick Schoch
PRRT&HS #8245

Let me offer up the quaint thought that, as far as meets like this are concerned, maybe bigger isn't always better??? This sort of get-together always starts out with just the hardcore type modelers and, as the attendance over the years expands to include the less knowledgeable, these sorts of problems begin to crop up. Sometimes the whole event starts to shrivel up because the hardcore types get tired of putting their (models, street rods, wood carvings, whatever) at risk and go off somewhere else and meet amongst themselves.
And the cycle starts over......

Ken Olson


Re: Andrews Trucks Using Major Components from Archbar Trucks

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "gary laakso" <vasa0vasa@...> wrote:

"..reused the arch bar journals, springs and bolsters". The same comment was made in the Freight Car Data Sheet for the USRA DS boxcars and it added "wheels and axles" to the re-used component list for Andrews trucks.

Was this a normal for Andrews trucks to use so many major parts from archbar trucks?
That was one of the design features of the Andrews truck, the fact that it used the MCB/ARA standard bolt-on journal box. How often it was actually done would require a case by case study of railroad records.

I assume this process was continued with other truck replacements, or could there limitations?
Well, the major limitation would be that no other truck was designed to use the MCB box... Vulcan trucks has separate boxes, but required a unique attachment lug on the box. Their main advantage was that a car wheelset could be removed without doing a total dissemblly of the truck, without even removing the truck from under the car in the case of the outboard axles,

All the trucks of the era used interchangeable bearings ("brasses") and bearing wedges, the part that transferred the load from the truck to the top of the bearing. The ARA standardized the internal dimensions of the boxes cast integral with newer design sideframes to be the same as those of the older separate boxes, so bearings and wedges could be reused.

I don't think that most modelers realize that at one time truck bolsters were a separate purchase item, not tied to the sideframe design in any way, the interface dimensions again being standardized by at first MCB, later ARA. At one time there were several competing bolster designs sold for use in any truck; Simplex and Huntoon come to mind as novel fabricated designs, AC&F had their own fabricated design, and Bettendorf, among others, offered one pieces castings. If any of these were installed in older trucks, they could be directly transferable to new cast trucks. It wasn't until truck designers started playing around with the springing geometry during the thirties that specific bolsters became married to specific sideframe design, as in the Dalman two level and National B-1. With the general adoption of "ride control" trucks with spring loaded wedges built into the bolster, after market truck bolsters became a thing of the past.

Dennis

98421 - 98440 of 192631