Date   

Re: Shipping Rose Stock By Rail

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:
I attended a local historical meeting at which the speaker discussed his family's rose growing business.
This was a very large operation and shipped rose stock all over the country. He mentioned that they shipped roses in refrigerator cars from the 1940s through the 1960s.
Does anyone know more details about shipping rose stock in refrigerator cars?
PFE maintained for many years a significant business in cut flowers, shipped in express refrigerators, from the west coast to all other parts of the country. Another case: I recall in my interview with PFE's former AGM for Car Service, that he had been on a survey team that went to the Cotton Belt in 1932 when SP obtained control of that road, to evaluate what services PFE would have to perform on the SSW. To their surprise, there was virtually no perishable shipping from anywhere on the Cotton Belt, with only one exception: the roses shipped from Tyler, Texas, which he said was a significant business.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Shipping Rose Stock By Rail

RDG2124 <RDG2124@...>
 

Prior to greenhouses allowing year round growing in the colder climates, car loads were shipped from the deep south, the southwest and the west coast. Holidays were the time to catch these shipments arriving for wholesalers. Cars were always ice reefers.

Roses, and several other types of flowers, were shipped in large cartons called flats with removable lids. A pure guess is a carton held somewhere around eight to ten dozen roses. These cartons were perforated for ventilation and contained one type and one color of that type rose. The discarded flats were sought after by dress makers for pattern and material storage. Cars were assigned to wholesalers.

Evan Leisey
Bennett, CO

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob C <thecitrusbelt@...>
To: STMFC <STMFC@...>
Sent: Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:23 am
Subject: [STMFC] Shipping Rose Stock By Rail




I attended a local historical meeting at which the speaker discussed his family's rose growing business.

This was a very large operation and shipped rose stock all over the country. He mentioned that they shipped roses in refrigerator cars from the 1940s through the 1960s.

Does anyone know more details about shipping rose stock in refrigerator cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Pullman troop sleep car question

Dave Nelson
 

Anyone know what the typical loaded weight of a WWIII Pullman built troop
sleeper was?



Or the axle capacity on the Allied trucks they rode on?



Thanks in advance to anyone who answers!



Dave Nelson


Re: Rail Shops' HO carbon black car kit, was...Con Cor Watermelon car

Ed Hawkins
 

On Nov 9, 2010, at 10:11 AM, Steve Lucas wrote:

I remain surprised that an STMFC built post-WWII had wood running
boards on it.
Steve,
The year 1947 was the end of transition period for running boards when
the last ones made of wood were applied to new cars. Not only did this
apply to the carbon black covered hoppers, the same held true to AC&F
tank cars as a number of them built in 1947 had wood running boards &
dome platforms. The latest lot number of a new AC&F tank car having
wood running boards was lot 3119, built 9-47, SHPX 3600-3634.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Durable Stirrups?

reporterllc
 

I've been communicationg with a manufacturer recently about the delicate HO stirrups on their freight cars. He is of the opinion that there is no alternative and still keep them to scale size. It seems to me that after market parts are much more durable and we do have some flat wire versions that are scale and durable. And I believe Details Associates makes some out of a flexible plastic material? He is going to send me spares on a sprue but I think in the long term I would rather replace them with something more durable.

Folks what are your thoughts on this?

Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana


Re: Elmira, NY icing facilities--which RR's were in Elmira?

Ken O'Brien
 

According to the 1952 Directory of Industries and Facilities of the DL&W, there was an emergency icing facility in Elmira on the eastbound side of the Lackawanna for "protection of commodities enroute."
Perusing the Elmira list of firms served, the PRR and Erie appear to have done the lion's share of reefer movements in that area.

Ken O'Brien

--- In STMFC@..., SUVCWORR@... wrote:


Bill,

The 1945 PRR CT1000 (list of stations and billable locations) shows a FGE facility at MP 72.7 with a private siding on the Elmira Branch and an ice house at MP 73.0. This would be miles from Williamsport, PA.

Rich Orr








-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Welch <fgexbill@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:50 am
Subject: [STMFC] Elmira, NY icing facilities--which RR's were in Elmira?


Gentleman:



In the Fruit Growers Express 1922 Annual Report they make note of the

various icing facilities associated with FGE that were either built

or received improvement during that year. One of the places mentioned

is Elmira, NY. I am aware that the Erie (am I correct here) operated

a significant icing facility at Elmira. The Erie had no relationship

w/FGE which leaves me wondering what other RR's had icing facilities

there. Would the PRR be a possibility?



Bill Welch

2225 Nursery Road; #20-104

Clearwater, FL 33764-7622

727.470.9930

fgexbill@...







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Re: UTLX X-3 Rebuild

SHAY STARK
 

Steve,

Thanks for the information. The picture is a little less hazy. I have realized that I have taken a couple of generic statements from Ted's tankcar book and Sunshine's x-3 information and construed that these differences must have been part of some type of rebuilding.

I know from what was provided in the Sunshine kit that there is a roster of car numbers based upon volume. But is there a list of car numbers based upon builder and year built. This could be helpful to determine who made what improvements to the cars. I say this because I have seen pictures of a 10,000 gallon car in a museum that has the single ladder and step and retrofitted AB brakes. The car number is 36781. Looking at the placement of the end hazard placard it must have a full end platform as the placard is up next to the tank. This car seems to be the more typical arrangement that I see in period photographs. I am guessing that that such data is not available.

Thanks again,

Shay Stark

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve and Barb Hile" <shile@...> wrote:

Shay,



Looking at the general arrangement drawings of the 8000 and 6500 gallon cars
built in 1937 by ACF, I can see ladders and a step on both sides of the
cars. These cars were also built without the extended "porch" filled in at
the ends of the underframe. So, I am not so sure that these cars were, in
fact, rebuilt. They seem to have come from the builder in this
configuration. It is certain that the X-3 design evolved over the 20 or so
years that the basic design was built.


Re: Rail Shops' HO carbon black car kit, was...Con Cor Watermelon car

Dean Payne
 

Are decals available for a pre-1940's car? Or, would it be better just to get the F&C version? (Is it the same car?) Akron, Ohio manufactures a lot of auto tires, and while I don't know if the W&LE ever served any tire plants, it did have a connection into Akron, so one of these hoppers would be justifiable.

Dean Payne

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On Nov 8, 2010, at 6:01 PM, Steve Lucas wrote:

I'm of the impression that the stock kit models the earliest of
Cabot's cars built in the 1930's. The wood running boards and the
early AB brake reservoir are the obvious clues. But the Cabot decals
included are for a late 1940's build, not this car.
Steve,
All Cabot carbon black cars built by AC&F earlier than 1949 originally
came with wood running boards. The range of Cabot car numbers having
wood running boards is CABX 21 through 126.

Wood running boards and vertical staff hand brakes were used on all
carbon black cars built by AC&F through 1942. There were no carbon
black cars built from 1943 through 1946. Cars built by AC&F in 1947 for
Cabot (CABX 107-126, built 2-47) and others continued to receive wood
running boards, but hand brakes were changed to Ajax. No carbon black
cars were built by AC&F in 1948. The last carbon black cars of this
type (SHPX 25612-25181 and CABX 127-146) built by AC&F came in
July/August 1949 with Apex running boards and Ajax power hand brakes.

Other builders of 3,000 cu. ft. carbon black cars included General
American and Pressed Steel Car Co. The latter built a small number of
cars in 1937 having wood running boards. Cars built in 1947 by GATC
could have either wood or Apex running boards depending on the
customer. CCCX 339-358 (5-47) had wood running boards and Equipco power
hand brakes, whereas GACX 40305-40309 (built 4-47) leased to Charles
Eneu Johnson & Company had Apex running boards and Equipco power hand
brakes. GATC cars built in 1948-1949 had steel-grid running boards. I
don't have photos of every group, so I cannot confirm that all of them
had Apex.
Ed Hawkins



Re: Rail Shops' HO carbon black car kit

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Tim--

My "up close and personal" experience with these cars likely does not replicate well in HO scale. Were I modelling a more recent time, the HO yardmen switching these cars would wear the white disposable Tyvek suits (issued train crews by Columbian Carbon in Hamilton, ON) that I wore when switching these cars. I've thought very briefly about spraying Neolube through the airbrush, but have decided on the far saner expedient of a black wash per your suggestion--which of course contains carbon black!

Thanks for the advice,

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Steve

Strange, I have scans of 55 different carbon black cars, and not
one of them is filthy, and only a couple of old cars display any
dirty lettering. Maybe the carbon black that got on them at the
plant just washed off in the first rainstorm that came along?

As for realism, just weather them with... carbon black! :-) It
will stay as long as you dullcote afterwards.

Tim O'Connor

Suggestions for weathering these cars? I had the dubious pleasure of switching a carbon black plant back in the 1990's, and recall oh-so-well just how absolutely filthy these cars were. Between oil caked on the wheel faces from plain bearing trucks, carbon black blowing off the top the the cars, these were some of the dirtiest cars that I ever worked with. And I want to replicate this to scale.

Your thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

Steve Lucas.


Re: Rail Shops' HO carbon black car kit, was...Con Cor Watermelon car

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Ed--

Thanks for the breakdown on these cars. As I used the kit's early AB brake reservoir, I'm committed to modelling one of CABX 21-106 with a "stemwinder" hand brake. Unless I pull out that reservoir and replace it with a Tichy part. Then I can use the kit decals. Luckily I've not yet added the handbrake gear, so it's easy enough to use Tichy's Ajax power handbrake on this model.

I wish that Rail Shops had been a bit more precise when producing this otherwise very nicely done kit, as their admixture of parts and decals tripped me up when building the model.

I remain surprised that an STMFC built post-WWII had wood running boards on it.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:


On Nov 8, 2010, at 6:01 PM, Steve Lucas wrote:

I'm of the impression that the stock kit models the earliest of
Cabot's cars built in the 1930's. The wood running boards and the
early AB brake reservoir are the obvious clues. But the Cabot decals
included are for a late 1940's build, not this car.
Steve,
All Cabot carbon black cars built by AC&F earlier than 1949 originally
came with wood running boards. The range of Cabot car numbers having
wood running boards is CABX 21 through 126.

Wood running boards and vertical staff hand brakes were used on all
carbon black cars built by AC&F through 1942. There were no carbon
black cars built from 1943 through 1946. Cars built by AC&F in 1947 for
Cabot (CABX 107-126, built 2-47) and others continued to receive wood
running boards, but hand brakes were changed to Ajax. No carbon black
cars were built by AC&F in 1948. The last carbon black cars of this
type (SHPX 25612-25181 and CABX 127-146) built by AC&F came in
July/August 1949 with Apex running boards and Ajax power hand brakes.

Other builders of 3,000 cu. ft. carbon black cars included General
American and Pressed Steel Car Co. The latter built a small number of
cars in 1937 having wood running boards. Cars built in 1947 by GATC
could have either wood or Apex running boards depending on the
customer. CCCX 339-358 (5-47) had wood running boards and Equipco power
hand brakes, whereas GACX 40305-40309 (built 4-47) leased to Charles
Eneu Johnson & Company had Apex running boards and Equipco power hand
brakes. GATC cars built in 1948-1949 had steel-grid running boards. I
don't have photos of every group, so I cannot confirm that all of them
had Apex.
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Shipping Rose Stock By Rail

Bob C <thecitrusbelt@...>
 

I attended a local historical meeting at which the speaker discussed his family's rose growing business.

This was a very large operation and shipped rose stock all over the country. He mentioned that they shipped roses in refrigerator cars from the 1940s through the 1960s.

Does anyone know more details about shipping rose stock in refrigerator cars?

Thanks.

Bob Chaparro


Re: Elmira, NY icing facilities--which RR's were in Elmira?

SUVCWORR@...
 

Bill,

The 1945 PRR CT1000 (list of stations and billable locations) shows a FGE facility at MP 72.7 with a private siding on the Elmira Branch and an ice house at MP 73.0. This would be miles from Williamsport, PA.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Welch <fgexbill@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tue, Nov 9, 2010 9:50 am
Subject: [STMFC] Elmira, NY icing facilities--which RR's were in Elmira?


Gentleman:



In the Fruit Growers Express 1922 Annual Report they make note of the

various icing facilities associated with FGE that were either built

or received improvement during that year. One of the places mentioned

is Elmira, NY. I am aware that the Erie (am I correct here) operated

a significant icing facility at Elmira. The Erie had no relationship

w/FGE which leaves me wondering what other RR's had icing facilities

there. Would the PRR be a possibility?



Bill Welch

2225 Nursery Road; #20-104

Clearwater, FL 33764-7622

727.470.9930

fgexbill@...















------------------------------------



Yahoo! Groups Links



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Individual Email | Traditional



http://groups.yahoo.com/group/STMFC/join

(Yahoo! ID required)



STMFC-digest@...

STMFC-fullfeatured@...



STMFC-unsubscribe@...



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Elmira, NY icing facilities--which RR's were in Elmira?

Bill Welch
 

Gentleman:

In the Fruit Growers Express 1922 Annual Report they make note of the
various icing facilities associated with FGE that were either built
or received improvement during that year. One of the places mentioned
is Elmira, NY. I am aware that the Erie (am I correct here) operated
a significant icing facility at Elmira. The Erie had no relationship
w/FGE which leaves me wondering what other RR's had icing facilities
there. Would the PRR be a possibility?

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...


Re: Chateau Martin box car

Tim O'Connor
 

No Al, we were just talking about CMWX 1001, which looks like a
conventional box car. But most of the older cars that appear in the
earlier ORERs remained in service into the 1960's. I haven't checked
in detail to see specifically which cars disappeared by 1959.

Tim O'

Sounds like they changed over from conventional-looking tank cars, to house-type cars. These are different car numbers from those Tim and Kurt list: did they replace the fleet again before '59, or was there a re-numbering?

CMWX is the only listing for Commodities Car in either ORER.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Railroad Prototype Modelers Seminar

Eric Hansmann
 

Greetings!

It's time to make your plans to attend the next RPM-East railroad prototype
modeler's seminar. The event will be held in Greensburg, PA; 33 miles east
of Pittsburgh. Presentations, models, open layouts, vendors, operating
sessions and great times are just months away. Here are the specs:

1:00pm Friday, March 25 through 11:00pm Saturday, March 25, 2011

At the Sheraton Four Points Hotel, Route 30 East, Greensburg, PA.

Room rate: $95.00 per night plus tax. Call 724-836-6060 and mention
"Prototype Modeler's Meet" for this rate.

http://www.fourpointsgreensburg.com

Preliminary speaker list: Keith Albright, Jim Dalberg, Keith DeVault, Paul
Dolkos, Gary Dunmire, Bruce Elliott, Dick Flock, Steve Funaro, Eric
Hansmann, Larry Kline, Lance Mindheim, Ramon Rhodes, Steve Ross and Paul
Gallick, Jim Ruffing, Mike Schleigh

Vendor space is limited and tables are $20 each. See the website for contact
info.

Vendors from 2009: B&O Historical Society, Bethlehem Car Works, Bob's Photo,
Rich Burg Photos, Joe Lofland, Main Line Photos, NMRA Division 2 Book Store,
ProCustom Hobbies, Schaller Steel Models, Speedwitch Media, Wildwood
Station, Jay Williams: Big Four Graphics

Operating Sessions - Thursday evening March 24

Layout Tours - Sunday March 27

Check out the web site for much more information and a registration form:

http://www.hansmanns.org/rpm_east/2011.htm

RPM-East is a great event to spark ideas for your next modeling challenge.
We'll see you there!

Eric



Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
RPM-East publicity assistant


Re: Chateau Martin box car

al_brown03
 

The 1/43 ORER lists (also under Commodities Car Co.) CMWX 101-105, MCB class TL (ICC 103), 6000 gallons. These are tank cars with linings to prevent either corrosion by, or contamination of, the lading. Cars 101 and 105 (but not 102-104) are still listed in the 1/53 ORER, along with:

CMWX 106, 108-112, 114, 117-125, and 130-134 (21 cars): AAR designation BMT, 6000 gallons. "BMT: A house car contructed and equipped for passenger train service used for transportation of liquids. Equipped with one or more insulated tanks and with or without pumps and compressor. Not equipped with means of refrigeration."

Sounds like they changed over from conventional-looking tank cars, to house-type cars. These are different car numbers from those Tim and Kurt list: did they replace the fleet again before '59, or was there a re-numbering?

CMWX is the only listing for Commodities Car in either ORER.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Kurt

Thanks! CMWX 1001-1009 appear in the ORER after Jan 1959
but before July 1963.

Tim O'Connor


At 11/8/2010 06:01 PM Monday, you wrote:
CMWX was listed under Commodities Car Co., Ltd. It was their only mark in
1961. Check under "AAR List of Assigned Reporting Marks of Private Car
Companies" in the back.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
But -- I can't find any Chateau Martin listings in any of my
Equipment Registers (from 1940 to 1988) -- what gives? Surely
CMWX is a registered reporting mark? Is CMWX listed another
another name?


Re: Rail Shops' HO carbon black car kit

Tim O'Connor
 

Steve

Strange, I have scans of 55 different carbon black cars, and not
one of them is filthy, and only a couple of old cars display any
dirty lettering. Maybe the carbon black that got on them at the
plant just washed off in the first rainstorm that came along?

As for realism, just weather them with... carbon black! :-) It
will stay as long as you dullcote afterwards.

Tim O'Connor

Between all of the discussion of late about watermelon cars, wine tanks cars, and pickle cars, I don't fear asking about carbon black cars.

I bought Rail Shops' kit for a Cabot carbon black car a couple of years back, and am finally getting around to detailing the "B" end and adding .008" brass wire grab irons to finish the car. Now a question or two about these cars as represented by the kit--

I'm of the impression that the stock kit models the earliest of Cabot's cars built in the 1930's. The wood running boards and the early AB brake reservoir are the obvious clues. But the Cabot decals included are for a late 1940's build, not this car.

Suggestions for weathering these cars? I had the dubious pleasure of switching a carbon black plant back in the 1990's, and recall oh-so-well just how absolutely filthy these cars were. Between oil caked on the wheel faces from plain bearing trucks, carbon black blowing off the top the the cars, these were some of the dirtiest cars that I ever worked with. And I want to replicate this to scale.

Your thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

Steve Lucas.


Re: Rail Shops' HO carbon black car kit, was...Con Cor Watermelon car

Ed Hawkins
 

On Nov 8, 2010, at 6:01 PM, Steve Lucas wrote:

I'm of the impression that the stock kit models the earliest of
Cabot's cars built in the 1930's. The wood running boards and the
early AB brake reservoir are the obvious clues. But the Cabot decals
included are for a late 1940's build, not this car.
Steve,
All Cabot carbon black cars built by AC&F earlier than 1949 originally
came with wood running boards. The range of Cabot car numbers having
wood running boards is CABX 21 through 126.

Wood running boards and vertical staff hand brakes were used on all
carbon black cars built by AC&F through 1942. There were no carbon
black cars built from 1943 through 1946. Cars built by AC&F in 1947 for
Cabot (CABX 107-126, built 2-47) and others continued to receive wood
running boards, but hand brakes were changed to Ajax. No carbon black
cars were built by AC&F in 1948. The last carbon black cars of this
type (SHPX 25612-25181 and CABX 127-146) built by AC&F came in
July/August 1949 with Apex running boards and Ajax power hand brakes.

Other builders of 3,000 cu. ft. carbon black cars included General
American and Pressed Steel Car Co. The latter built a small number of
cars in 1937 having wood running boards. Cars built in 1947 by GATC
could have either wood or Apex running boards depending on the
customer. CCCX 339-358 (5-47) had wood running boards and Equipco power
hand brakes, whereas GACX 40305-40309 (built 4-47) leased to Charles
Eneu Johnson & Company had Apex running boards and Equipco power hand
brakes. GATC cars built in 1948-1949 had steel-grid running boards. I
don't have photos of every group, so I cannot confirm that all of them
had Apex.
Ed Hawkins


Re: Chateau Martin box car

Tim O'Connor
 

Kurt

Thanks! CMWX 1001-1009 appear in the ORER after Jan 1959
but before July 1963.

Tim O'Connor

At 11/8/2010 06:01 PM Monday, you wrote:
CMWX was listed under Commodities Car Co., Ltd. It was their only mark in
1961. Check under "AAR List of Assigned Reporting Marks of Private Car
Companies" in the back.

KL

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
But -- I can't find any Chateau Martin listings in any of my
Equipment Registers (from 1940 to 1988) -- what gives? Surely
CMWX is a registered reporting mark? Is CMWX listed another
another name?


Re: UTLX X-3 Rebuild

Ed Hawkins
 

On Nov 8, 2010, at 7:33 PM, Steve and Barb Hile wrote:

Copies of the ACF drawings are (or were) available from the Barringer
Library (I think) in St. Louis. Ed Hawkins helped me get these
drawings
some years ago and he can correct my memory.
Steve,
The Barriger National Railroad Library at the St. Louis Mercantile
Library has the bills of materials for these cars as well as the
collection of AC&F builder's photographs. The AC&F drawings are at the
Museum of Transportation in Kirkwood, Mo.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

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