Date   

Re: Ice vs Mechanical Reefers - Off Subject?

al_brown03
 

PFE's first mechanical reefers were class R-70-7 (1953). See Thompson et al., "PFE", 1st ed., chapter 9. I don't know about other companies.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:



I believe they were still discussing moisture concerns with meat with mechanical refrig in the early 1950s . . . until they realized they could start with a goodly amount of artificial moisture and keep it along the trip.  FGE was building new re-icing platforms in 1955 (@ their Russell and Peru yards) along the C&O.  I believe FGE purchased a "demo fleet" of mech reffers in 1956 with diff supplier motor-compressor sets.  They keep their leased re-icing platforms on the C&O until 1972 I believe.



Al Kresse


----- Original Message -----
From: "RDG2124" <RDG2124@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:48:38 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Ice vs Mechanical Reefers - Off Subject?


If within the discussion period of this list, when did mechanical reefers enter service?  Assume since passenger cars began using mechanical air conditioning in the late 30's that reefers would have been soon to follow or did they precede passenger cars?

The discussion of roses being shipped via reefers prompted questions, other than the obvious labor intensity and icing delays of the iced cars, what are the pros and cons of the ice versus the mechanical cars.   As I know only of flowers being shipped in iced reefers, assume that humidity was a concern.

Thank you,

Evan Leisey
Bennett, CO
















Re: Suncoast Models FGEX Wood Kit

Denny Anspach <danspach@...>
 

I built this kit many years ago, and thoroughly enjoyed doing so. It is a still a personal favorite; and as a model it has garnered unsolicited praise by some pretty tough critics, particularly as relates to "what one can really do with wood craft kits". As I recall, it was one of the few kits produced with a fully proper floor and underframe construction, albeit without rivets, etc. (wood). The instruction sheet seemed worthy of collection just by itself.

A current builder would have the advantage of substituting some of the high grade current cast or molded details for those included in the original kit, plus the opportunity to add/substitute more detailing not included. A fine more-thin running board comes to mind.

Building wood craft model kits has been - and still is for me- one of the most satisfying parts of this hobby.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach, MD
Sacramento


Re: Ice vs Mechanical Reefers - Off Subject?

water.kresse@...
 

I believe they were still discussing moisture concerns with meat with mechanical refrig in the early 1950s . . . until they realized they could start with a goodly amount of artificial moisture and keep it along the trip.  FGE was building new re-icing platforms in 1955 (@ their Russell and Peru yards) along the C&O.  I believe FGE purchased a "demo fleet" of mech reffers in 1956 with diff supplier motor-compressor sets.  They keep their leased re-icing platforms on the C&O until 1972 I believe.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "RDG2124" <RDG2124@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, November 11, 2010 9:48:38 AM
Subject: [STMFC] Ice vs Mechanical Reefers - Off Subject?


If within the discussion period of this list, when did mechanical reefers enter service?  Assume since passenger cars began using mechanical air conditioning in the late 30's that reefers would have been soon to follow or did they precede passenger cars?

The discussion of roses being shipped via reefers prompted questions, other than the obvious labor intensity and icing delays of the iced cars, what are the pros and cons of the ice versus the mechanical cars.   As I know only of flowers being shipped in iced reefers, assume that humidity was a concern.

Thank you,

Evan Leisey
Bennett, CO


Re: Shiping Rose Sstock By Rail - Questions?

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Would the shipments have been exclusively in Santa Fe cars or any available car?

Where did the shipments go?

Did an entire car load go to one consignee?

Gene Green


Ice vs Mechanical Reefers - Off Subject?

RDG2124 <RDG2124@...>
 

If within the discussion period of this list, when did mechanical reefers enter service? Assume since passenger cars began using mechanical air conditioning in the late 30's that reefers would have been soon to follow or did they precede passenger cars?

The discussion of roses being shipped via reefers prompted questions, other than the obvious labor intensity and icing delays of the iced cars, what are the pros and cons of the ice versus the mechanical cars. As I know only of flowers being shipped in iced reefers, assume that humidity was a concern.

Thank you,

Evan Leisey
Bennett, CO


Re: Shiping Rose Sstock By Rail - Questions?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bob Chaparro wrote:
For those of you who have any interest in this, what questions would you like to have answered about shipping rose stock by rail?
To what extent, and in what seasons, might the stock have been shipped in express reefers vs. standard refrigerators? Was the stock shipped under standard refrigeration protection, or some other protective service

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Shiping Rose Sstock By Rail - Questions?

Bob C <thecitrusbelt@...>
 

For a number of years the Howard Rose Company in Hemet, CA, shipped rose stock all over the country from the Santa Fe's San Jacinto Branch. This was a very large rose stock producer that once had over three million plants and a dedicated packing house. They shipped their stock in refrigerator cars.

In the coming weeks I will be interviewing the son of one of the company's original owners. He worked at the company during the time period when rose stock was shipped by rail and currently is the President of the local historical society.

For those of you who have any interest in this, what questions would you like to have answered about shipping rose stock by rail?

Bob Chaparro
Hemet, CA


Re: Shipping Rose Stock By Rail

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@..., LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@...> wrote:

There was a large rose business in Southern Chester County, PA along the
Octoraro Branch.  One of the leading growers (they say THE leading grower) was
Dingee & Conard in West Grove.  Another ad reads "West Grove, the Home of the
Roses".  The Arcadia post card book "Around Avondale and West Grove" states: 
"In 1925, Robert Pyle and his son, Robert, bought the nursery and renamed it
Conard-Pyle.  He registered Star Roses as the trademark for his roses and they
are still highly sought after in the nursery business today.  Conard-Pyle's
retail business closed in 1978, but the wholesale business is still growing
strong".

That stretch along US 1 and the Octoraro Branch including Kennett Square,
Toughkenamon, West Grove and West Grove is also known for mushroom growing. 
Another Arcadia book, "Chester County Mushroom Farming" notes that the industry
developed "about 1885, when William Swayne, a successful florist in Kennett
Square, conceived the idea of growing mushrooms beneath his greenhouse benches".

In the PRRT&HS Philadelphia Chapter's "High Line" issue that focused on the
Octoraro Branch, it states regarding  MD-59/MD-58, the Milk and Express train
that became known as "The Mushroom Train" that "Besides milk from creameries
along the branch, the express traffic consisted of flowers (Toughkenamon was
noted for its carnations, and West Grove was the home of Star Roses), and the
principal express commodity was mushrooms".

I do remember a sign along US 1 advertising a rose company in the early 80s. 
Conard-Pyle is evidently still in business -- there's a website with Star still
a registered trademark.

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ

Lou,

Star roses in West Grove is what I remembered (a brand name owned by Conrad-Pyle). Turns out they abandoned the consumer sales market in the late 70's but continued in plant development and wholesale nursery markets, and Conrad-Pyle's web site indicates they exited the wholesale business in 2009/2010. They now focus on new plant development.

Conrad-Pyle had a siding listed on the PRR Octoraro branch in West Grove, PA as of 1945 (PRR CT1000).

The milk train/express service over the Octoraro fits in with the scenario of shipping plants via express reefers.

Dave Evans


Re: Shipping Rose Stock By Rail

LOUIS WHITELEY <octoraro1@...>
 

There was a large rose business in Southern Chester County, PA along the
Octoraro Branch.  One of the leading growers (they say THE leading grower) was
Dingee & Conard in West Grove.  Another ad reads "West Grove, the Home of the
Roses".  The Arcadia post card book "Around Avondale and West Grove" states: 
"In 1925, Robert Pyle and his son, Robert, bought the nursery and renamed it
Conard-Pyle.  He registered Star Roses as the trademark for his roses and they
are still highly sought after in the nursery business today.  Conard-Pyle's
retail business closed in 1978, but the wholesale business is still growing
strong".

That stretch along US 1 and the Octoraro Branch including Kennett Square,
Toughkenamon, West Grove and West Grove is also known for mushroom growing. 
Another Arcadia book, "Chester County Mushroom Farming" notes that the industry
developed "about 1885, when William Swayne, a successful florist in Kennett
Square, conceived the idea of growing mushrooms beneath his greenhouse benches".

In the PRRT&HS Philadelphia Chapter's "High Line" issue that focused on the
Octoraro Branch, it states regarding  MD-59/MD-58, the Milk and Express train
that became known as "The Mushroom Train" that "Besides milk from creameries
along the branch, the express traffic consisted of flowers (Toughkenamon was
noted for its carnations, and West Grove was the home of Star Roses), and the
principal express commodity was mushrooms".

I do remember a sign along US 1 advertising a rose company in the early 80s. 
Conard-Pyle is evidently still in business -- there's a website with Star still
a registered trademark.

Lou Whiteley
Lawrenceville, NJ




________________________________
From: Dave <devans1@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, November 10, 2010 4:42:05 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Shipping Rose Stock By Rail

 
-- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Bob Chaparro wrote:
I attended a local historical meeting at which the speaker discussed
his family's rose growing business.
This was a very large operation and shipped rose stock all over the
country. He mentioned that they shipped roses in refrigerator cars
from the 1940s through the 1960s.
Does anyone know more details about shipping rose stock in
refrigerator cars?
PFE maintained for many years a significant business in cut
flowers, shipped in express refrigerators, from the west coast to all
other parts of the country. Another case: I recall in my interview
with PFE's former AGM for Car Service, that he had been on a survey
team that went to the Cotton Belt in 1932 when SP obtained control of
that road, to evaluate what services PFE would have to perform on the
SSW. To their surprise, there was virtually no perishable shipping
from anywhere on the Cotton Belt, with only one exception: the roses
shipped from Tyler, Texas, which he said was a significant business.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
All,

I suspect when Bob describes Rose "stock", he is referring to actual rose
plants, not cut flowers. My Grandfather (56+ years PRR), was also an avid rose
grower, and after his retirement his primary hobby was evaluating (and
photographing) new rose plants from both Starr Roses and Jackson-Perkins (?) to
see how they grew and produced flowers in the Pittsburgh area. In the 1960's I
recall my grandfather traveling to Southeastern Pennsylvania (somewhere SE of
Lancaster) to meet with the rose companies, and I am pretty sure I recall
driving past at least one of these growers - rose bushes in full bloom for over
a mile along a road - amazing.

I believe this area of PA was one of the major producers of Rose stock in the US
(but I could be completely wrong - I may have just been young and overly
impressionable), and I suspect the shipments from these two producers went all
over the country. There is a slight chance J-P may have been in Ohio, I just can
not recall.

I'll check over on the PRRT&HS site to see if anyone recalls the PRR doing
significant plant/rose stock business out of that area (I think near Gap, PA,
along the PRR main). An interesting cargo, but IIRC plants were shipped dormant
in either the fall/winter/or early spring for spring planting. So no bounty of
colors for this load.

Dave Evans




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Shipping Rose Stock By Rail

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dave Evans wrote:
I suspect when Bob describes Rose "stock", he is referring to actual rose plants, not cut flowers.
Yes, and my post confused that point by mentioning cut flowers also. The Tyler, Texas rose business was rose plants, as well as I can remember.

There is a slight chance J-P may have been in Ohio, I just can not recall.
Jackson-Perkins is pretty much national. They have a very large facility just south of Portland, Oregon but doubtless have others around the country. Incidentally, the Portland location is far from coincidental--a major holiday in Portland is the spring Rose Festival, as it's a terrific climate for roses.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Shipping Rose Stock By Rail

devansprr
 

-- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Bob Chaparro wrote:
I attended a local historical meeting at which the speaker discussed
his family's rose growing business.
This was a very large operation and shipped rose stock all over the
country. He mentioned that they shipped roses in refrigerator cars
from the 1940s through the 1960s.
Does anyone know more details about shipping rose stock in
refrigerator cars?
PFE maintained for many years a significant business in cut
flowers, shipped in express refrigerators, from the west coast to all
other parts of the country. Another case: I recall in my interview
with PFE's former AGM for Car Service, that he had been on a survey
team that went to the Cotton Belt in 1932 when SP obtained control of
that road, to evaluate what services PFE would have to perform on the
SSW. To their surprise, there was virtually no perishable shipping
from anywhere on the Cotton Belt, with only one exception: the roses
shipped from Tyler, Texas, which he said was a significant business.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history
All,

I suspect when Bob describes Rose "stock", he is referring to actual rose plants, not cut flowers. My Grandfather (56+ years PRR), was also an avid rose grower, and after his retirement his primary hobby was evaluating (and photographing) new rose plants from both Starr Roses and Jackson-Perkins (?) to see how they grew and produced flowers in the Pittsburgh area. In the 1960's I recall my grandfather traveling to Southeastern Pennsylvania (somewhere SE of Lancaster) to meet with the rose companies, and I am pretty sure I recall driving past at least one of these growers - rose bushes in full bloom for over a mile along a road - amazing.

I believe this area of PA was one of the major producers of Rose stock in the US (but I could be completely wrong - I may have just been young and overly impressionable), and I suspect the shipments from these two producers went all over the country. There is a slight chance J-P may have been in Ohio, I just can not recall.

I'll check over on the PRRT&HS site to see if anyone recalls the PRR doing significant plant/rose stock business out of that area (I think near Gap, PA, along the PRR main). An interesting cargo, but IIRC plants were shipped dormant in either the fall/winter/or early spring for spring planting. So no bounty of colors for this load.

Dave Evans


Re: Chateau Martin box car

Charlie Vlk
 

Dave-
It looks like we're back to the 1001 being a unique car. The patch job was the first paint scheme; full paint was later.
Charlie

----- Original Message -----
From: Tim O'Connor
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Tuesday, November 09, 2010 3:43 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Chateau Martin box car



Charlie,

The 1003, 1005, 1006, 1008 were all ex-GPEX General American-Pfaulder
milk tank cars. I wouldn't be surprised if 1002-1009 were all this type.

I think 1001 was unique.

Also I think the "patch job" version of 1001 was its originally second
hand appearance, until it was fully repainted for Chateau Martin. So it
was short lived in that scheme (less than 2 years?).

The scan I have of GPEX 1003 also is a "patch job" where the milk company
lettering is painted out.

Tim O'Connor

At 11/9/2010 02:32 PM Tuesday, you wrote:
>Since my Westerfield ORER collection brackets the dates the 1001-1009 appear, is there any indication that the 1002-1009 were the same type boxcar as the 1001 (which had full Charteau Martin paint and patch job CMWX)?
>
>A manufacturer is interested in doing these cars in N Scale and wants to know what the cars looked like beyond the two schemes for the 1001.
>
>Charlie Vlk
>Railroad Model Resources


Re: ORER assistance

Brian Carlson
 

I figured I'd hear from you, just wanted to see who else i may be able to tap for information in the future.
Brian

--- On Wed, 11/10/10, Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:


From: Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] ORER assistance
To: STMFC@...
Date: Wednesday, November 10, 2010, 1:43 PM


 



Got ya covered Brian (why didn't you just ask me in the first place?). I'll light you up offlist!

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

--- On Tue, 11/9/10, Brian J Carlson <prrk41361@...> wrote:

From: Brian J Carlson <prrk41361@...>
Subject: [STMFC] ORER assistance
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 9:59 PM
I'm about to start an article for our
NKPHTS magazine on the NKP Freight car
fleet. I'd like to augment my ORER data. Since I model 1957
most of my
issues revolve around this time frame. I'm looking for
people willing to
scan the NKP and WLE sections of the ORERs from the 20's
thru 1950. It would
not have to be every issue obviously but I'd like to build
up sufficient
information to develop a relatively complete picture. If
anyone is
interested in helping me with this project please contact
me OFF LIST.
Thanks. I'm thinking I'll have the basis for a clinic or
two for RPM meets
as I go too.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
prrk41361@...





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


    STMFC-fullfeatured@...









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: ORER assistance

Ray Breyer
 

Got ya covered Brian (why didn't you just ask me in the first place?). I'll light you up offlist!

Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL

--- On Tue, 11/9/10, Brian J Carlson <prrk41361@...> wrote:

From: Brian J Carlson <prrk41361@...>
Subject: [STMFC] ORER assistance
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 9:59 PM
I'm about to start an article for our
NKPHTS magazine on the NKP Freight car
fleet. I'd like to augment my ORER data. Since I model 1957
most of my
issues revolve around this time frame. I'm looking for
people willing to
scan the NKP and WLE sections of the ORERs from the 20's
thru 1950. It would
not have to be every issue obviously but I'd like to build
up sufficient
information to develop a relatively complete picture. If
anyone is
interested in helping me with this project please contact
me OFF LIST.
Thanks. I'm thinking I'll have the basis for a clinic or
two for RPM meets
as I go too.

Brian J. Carlson, P.E.
Cheektowaga NY
prrk41361@...





------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


    STMFC-fullfeatured@...



Suncoast Models FGEX Wood Kit

gary laakso
 

I located in my stash a circa 1972 $9.95 Suncoast Models FGEX wood kit. It has the body of the 12'-11" FGEX car but it has an all wood roof. I assume that it ought to have the steel roof used by FGEX , WFEX and BREX. The wood sides do not have the lower steel reinforcement sill and I am not sure how that can be represented.
I may build this and keep in my "period piece" group to show how very far kits have been transformed to the better. I did build 2 of the WFEX version of the kits, albeit one is much shorter then the other in 1972 and my building skills have improved along with the kits.


gary laakso
south of Mike Brock
vasa0vasa@...


Re: Durable Stirrups?

Frederick Freitas <prrinvt@...>
 

GUYZ,
 
I've had good luck using WKW Goo applied with a pin to the mounting lugs.
Haven't had a step failure in operation. so far, so good.
 
Fred Freitas

--- On Tue, 11/9/10, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


From: Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Durable Stirrups?
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 10:45 PM


 



I've used A-Line stirrups in cases where I wasn't too particular
about the prototype, or where the prototype definitely used a
bottom-mount sill step.

But some steps were side-mount, or a combination of side-bottom
or even side-end mount. And that's where the tough plastic steps
from Detail Associates, Tichy and others do a good job. They are
not so likely to break as they are to fall off, as they resist
most glues!

I'd had very good luck with metal steps in Westerfield kits, and
you can do neat things with them like correctly tilt them outwards
which you can't do with the molded plastic steps.

The 1937 AAR box cars had very distinctive sill steps, so I always
use the plastic kit steps for my Red Caboose/IMWX box cars. Then as
Richard says, I keep 'em away from the club. ;-)

Tim O'Connor

Victor, all of my HO scale rolling stock is designed to operate on a
diorama and to be handled periodically for maintenance, etc.
Mercifully, I don't have to deal with the ham-fisted bozos who seem
inevitable on most club layouts, but in my experience plastic sill
steps that are molded on or cemented in place are either grossly
oversize and out of scale or so fragile as to be vulnerable to even
reasonably careful handling. For that reason, my long-standing
practice is to replace them wherever possible with A-Line metal steps
(which, incidentally, are less expensive if purchased in bulk than in
individual retail packages). I heat each step to a dull red with my
resistance soldering tool and then quench it in water; this makes it
easy to bend the step to whatever exact configuration may be required
without breaking it. I then blacken it with a chemical blackening
agent before installing it, as the black coating takes paint better
than bare metal and tends to prevent unwanted shine from the metal if
the paint gets rubbed off. The A-Line steps are slightly over-scale,
but not much, and look quite realistic as well as being resistant to
any damage that might result from a derailment, etc. Worst case
scenario is that they get bent, and - having been annealed before
installation - they can easily be bent back into position and touch-
up paint applied if necessary. FWIW -

Richard Hendrickson







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


ADMIN: Re: Re: RPM Etiquette

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Dennis Williams says:

"And now, ladies and gentlemen, Mrrrr. Ed!!!!!"

Since I have not the faintest idea of what frt car Dennis refers to, I suppose it is time to terminate this thread...some might say it was time a week ago. So...it is NOW terminated.

Mike Brock
STMFC Owner


Re: RPM Etiquette

Dennis Williams
 

And now, ladies and gentlemen, Mrrrr. Ed!!!!!
Dennis Williams
www.resinbuilders4u.com

--- On Tue, 11/9/10, Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:


From: Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: RPM Etiquette
To: STMFC@...
Date: Tuesday, November 9, 2010, 6:33 PM


 



Rich Ramik wrote:
Okay guys, does the phrase "beating a dead horse" come to mind on
this subject?
Yep, ya sure are. <g>

Tony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail: thompson@...


Re: Con Cor Watermelon car

Tim O'Connor
 

Both Intermountain and Overland (!!!) are now selling Con-Cor RTR
models. Anyone know if these are custom runs or if they are selling
them as distributors only?

Tim O'Connor

Ed Mines asked:
"Is Con-cor still in business?"

Yes. Not much new for this group (unless you count a reissue of the Revell gon
with a scrap load as a new model), but plenty of great stuff in HO scale for the
steam to diesel transition era, particularly lightweight train sets such as the
UP M-10000, CB&Q Pioneer Zephyr, and GM Aerotrain, plus PRR mP54 coaches,
combines, and baggage-mail cars.
http://www.all-railroads.com/


Ben Hom


Re: Pullman troop sleep car question

Tim O'Connor
 

The Allied full cushion trucks were 50 ton rated trucks.
Bruce Smith
Which means that the axle-load limit was 42,250 lbs, or
169,000 lbs total for a 4-axle car. This was raised some
time in the 1960s to 44,250/177,000.

Tim O'Connor

102661 - 102680 of 197031