Date   

Re: Hooks under UP S-40-10

Jack Burgess
 

Here is what a YV brakeman told me many years ago about Keeley's:

"The YV had friction bearings in all of the cars and when you'd have a hot
box or one that is warming up, that'd hang what you'd call a Keeley. This
was a tank with water in it and it had a hose and you'd just open the
journal box lid and fasten the hose in there and it would just kinda drip in
there and keep that sucker cool enough so that you could get to some place
to set it out or take it into Merced Falls that way. I just figured that the
Keeley was made by the Keeley Company some place. After the War [WW2] I had
to go and take a physical after I was discharged. They sent me to Pontiac,
Illinois. I went in there, by gosh, it was the Keeley Institute. I wondered,
what in the hell is this? It turned out that the Keeley was a "drop"
rehabilitation deal back in the early days! The cure was a water cure and so
I think that this tank got the name Keeley because that was the popular way
to cure somebody. I don't think that it was made by the Keeley Company at
all. I think that that was just a clever name they hung on it.

"It looked like one of these tanks that you carry air in for airing up tires
remote from the pump. It was hung right off of a grab iron and I suppose
that it was 2'-3' long and 10" in diameter and it had this rubber hose on
it. You'd just hang that thing in there and keep things cool.

"I remember one time they burned a journal so bad that we had to change the
wheels. That is hard to do with a car load of logs. With arch bar trucks
it's not too bad, you can just drop the bolts and pull the journal boxes and
the whole works out. With a car with cast trucks, you can't do that out in
the field, you'd have to go out with a wrecker and put a new truck on it.
Things were always done in a most expeditious manner on the YV. The YV had
all kinds of clever ways to do things."

I've often thought that modeling a car with a Keeley on it would be a nice
detail.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Hooks under UP S-40-10

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Jim, they were for coolant tanks to drip cold water on hot journals - a primitive but, apparently fairly effective way to deal with hot boxes. Many SP and PFE cars also had them in the 1920s and '30s, though they're in shadow and often difficult to see in photos.
Officially on the SP these were "journal box coolers," but crews universally called them "Keeley cans." They can be found in photos of steam locomotive tenders on the SP too. I have a bunch of photos of cabooses with them in my Vol. 2 on SP cabooses, and an SP drawing for them on p. 157 of that book.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Hooks under UP S-40-10

Greg Martin
 

Jim,

I remember a conversation with Richard Hendrickson about this photo as he
had a copy as well and we never could figure out why they were there.

Greg Martin

In a message dated 11/28/2010 4:39:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jimhayes97225@gmail.com writes:




One of Don Strack's UP photos is of an S-40-10 stockcar. It has several
hooks under the side sill. What are they for?

_http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/UP-Freight-Cars/12573244_k2YDv#90261
6546_Y2DuX-X2-LB_
(http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/UP-Freight-Cars/12573244_k2YDv#902616546_Y2DuX-X2-LB)

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Hooks under UP S-40-10

Jim Hayes
 

Thanks, Richard


Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Richard Hendrickson <
rhendrickson@opendoor.com> wrote:



On Nov 28, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Jim Hayes wrote:

One of Don Strack's UP photos is of an S-40-10 stockcar. It has
several
hooks under the side sill. What are they for?
Jim, they were for coolant tanks to drip cold water on hot journals -
a primitive but, apparently fairly effective way to deal with hot
boxes. Many SP and PFE cars also had them in the 1920s and '30s,
though they're in shadow and often difficult to see in photos.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Hooks under UP S-40-10

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 28, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Jim Hayes wrote:

One of Don Strack's UP photos is of an S-40-10 stockcar. It has
several
hooks under the side sill. What are they for?
Jim, they were for coolant tanks to drip cold water on hot journals -
a primitive but, apparently fairly effective way to deal with hot
boxes. Many SP and PFE cars also had them in the 1920s and '30s,
though they're in shadow and often difficult to see in photos.

Richard Hendrickson


Hooks under UP S-40-10

Jim Hayes
 

One of Don Strack's UP photos is of an S-40-10 stockcar. It has several
hooks under the side sill. What are they for?

http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/UP-Freight-Cars/12573244_k2YDv#902616546_Y2DuX-X2-LB

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


Re: TH&B and PGE cars in the states circa 1957

W.R.Dixon
 

On 2010-11-28 10:52 AM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

From Dan Smith's slide-sharing collection, Andy Carlson sent me slides
of PGE and ONT box cars in southern California circa 1958. The PGE box car
was newly built in 1958 but the ONT box car was built in 1947.

The PGE owned fewer than 100 box cars in 1955, and only about 300 in
1959 (after buying 200 new cars in 1958). So I imagine sightings of them
would be very rare indeed in the STMFC era. I believe there was a large
aluminum smelting operation in British Columbia, in addition to lots of
lumber.
You must remember that until about 1957 the PGE was an isolated railway connected to Vancouver, BC by car barge. At that time I would think that it would be very unlikely for a PGE car to stray very far from home.
After the track was laid to connect the PGE to North Vancouver and new equipment was purchased, the equipment would start to roam further afield. This ties in nicely with a spotting of a New PGE box car in California in 1958.

Bill Dixon


Re: Atlas HO USRA Steel Rebuilt Boxcar

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rob Manley wrote:
That's good news for me. I wanted to do one of my Westerfield USRA cars as Rock but I assumed they had all been rebuilt.
This is an exception contrary to Clark's Law. The more you know , the less you model.
Or the corollary to Clark's Law: the more you know, the more stand-ins you find in your fleet.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Atlas HO USRA Steel Rebuilt Boxcar

Rob & Bev Manley
 

Steve,
That's good news for me. I wanted to do one of my Westerfield USRA cars as Rock but I assumed they had all been rebuilt.
This is an exception contrary to Clark's Law. The more you know , the less you model.

Rob Manley

----- Original Message -----
From: Steve and Barb Hile
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 12:01 PM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Atlas HO USRA Steel Rebuilt Boxcar



Actually, the Rock Island only rebuilt 800 of their 2500 USRA double
sheathed cars with steel sides. Many of them remained double sheathed wood
well into the 50's, receiving AB brakes, as required.

Supposedly, the Atlas ad shows the N scale car with 8 panels while the
summary text states 10 panels. 10 panels would be OK for the RI, but the
height issue, Ben raises is still unresolved.

Steve Hile

_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
benjaminfrank_hom
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 11:14 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Atlas HO USRA Steel Rebuilt Boxcar

Don Burn wrote:
"No it is not accurate for any of those roads."

True, but some corrections need to be made to the following comments to set
the record straight.

"The EJ&E rebuilds had 10 panel sides not 8, and the C&NW was taller with a
blank panel added to the ends."

True. In addition, the EJ&E rebuilds had rectangular panel roofs, nd the CNW
rebuilds had Viking roofs. See Ted Cullotta's Prototype Railroad Modeling
Journal Vol 1 for Clark Propst's article on modeling the EJ&E cars.

"The DT&I had rebuilds but they had Murphy Dry Lading roofs."

Incrrect. The DT&I rebuilds had a unique radial roof with 15 U-section
carlines. The Atlas model with 5/5/5 ends and 8-panel sides can actually be
used as a starting point for these cars as the ends were not modified during
the rebuilding, but the roof will have to be scratchbuilt.
http://dti.railfan.net/Equipment_Database/DTI11000sUSRA40';dsBox/ArtDTI11500s
.html
http://dti.railfan.net/Pototype_Images/rs/DTI11542.jpg

"I could be wrong but I don't believe the other roads had rebuilds."

You are incorrect. Rock Island rebuilt 2500 of their own USRA DS boxcars in
1936 and 1940, and later leased 500 C&NW rebuilt boxcars in 1955. You are
correct that Ann Arbor and Canadian National did not have any USRA rebuilt
boxcars, but both roads did own rebuilt boxcars (in the case of AA, via the
Wabash).

Ben Hom


Re: TH&B and PGE cars in the states circa 1957

Ian Cranstone
 

The PGE did not really interchange its cars for a period from 1927 through 1952, so would likely have been rare sights in the U.S. at that time. At the time the only access to the PGE was to barge the cars from Vancouver to Squamish, and it wasn't until the 1950s that the line was completed south to CNR/CPR interchange in North Vancouver and north to a CNR interchange at Prince George.

The main boxcar fleet at that point were 75 steel boxcars constructed by CCF in 1947 (15 of which were converted to stock cars in 1959-60), 20 old steel frame xMKT cars (which were transferred to MoW service in the mid-1950s), and 200 steel boxcars constructed by NSC in 1958. I would guess that lumber service was a frequent use of these cars (especially the later cars with 8' doors).

In comparison, the THB & ONT fleets were huge: TH&B had 600 steel boxcars constructed by NSC (300 in 1949 and 300 in 1953), which replaced some old Fowlers and the remaining double-sheathed cars acquired from NYC in 1941 (300 cars originally).

ONT purchased 1000 cars from NSC (570 in 1947, and an additional 430 in 1948), which likely travelled extensively in paper service.

Ian Cranstone
Osgoode, Ontario, Canada
lamontc@nakina.net
http://freightcars.nakina.net
http://siberians.nakina.net

On 2010-11-28, at 1:52 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:


From Dan Smith's slide-sharing collection, Andy Carlson sent me slides
of PGE and ONT box cars in southern California circa 1958. The PGE box car
was newly built in 1958 but the ONT box car was built in 1947.

The PGE owned fewer than 100 box cars in 1955, and only about 300 in
1959 (after buying 200 new cars in 1958). So I imagine sightings of them
would be very rare indeed in the STMFC era. I believe there was a large
aluminum smelting operation in British Columbia, in addition to lots of
lumber.

I agree with Richard AC, ONT, and TH&B box car sightings were not unusual
esp near US-Canadian border. From the ancient FCL (pre-freightcars list) I
seem to recall someone mentioned spotting an AC box car in Mexico.

Tim O'Connor

I can add to this and other reports numerous photos from my own
collection of ONT, TH&B, and Algoma Central cars below the border,
including AC single sheathed cars in Mason City, IA and Minneapolis,
an ONT steel car in San Francisco, and TH&B 40 ton USRA wood sheathed
box cars in New Haven and Kansas City.
Richard Hendrickson


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: TH&B and PGE cars in the states circa 1957

Frank Valoczy <destron@...>
 

Bill McCoy wrote:
I know CP and CN cars came to the states in the 50's but did cars
belonging to other Canadian carriers (PGE, TH&B, NAR, etc.)come
south of the border in 1957?
NAR no, as AFAIK they never had any cars in interchange.

As others have said, there are many examples of ONT/TEM, PGE, AC and TH&B
cars south of 49. I would /guess/ that QC cars also got across the border,
but my only evidence to suspect that are several photos of QC equipment as
far away from home as Vancouver, BC. Roberval-Saguenay had equipment in
interchange, but I've not seen any photos of their stuff even outside
Quebec, nevermind south of the border.

Frank Valoczy
Vancouver, BC


Re: Atlas HO USRA Steel Rebuilt Boxcar

Benjamin Hom
 

Steve Hile wrote:
"Actually, the Rock Island only rebuilt 800 of their 2500 USRA double
sheathed cars with steel sides. Many of them remained double sheathed wood
well into the 50's, receiving AB brakes, as required."

Steve, thanks for the correction - got cross-threaded between original and
rebuilt quantities reading my own spreadsheet.


Ben Hom


Re: TH&B and PGE cars in the states circa 1957

Tim O'Connor
 

From Dan Smith's slide-sharing collection, Andy Carlson sent me slides
of PGE and ONT box cars in southern California circa 1958. The PGE box car
was newly built in 1958 but the ONT box car was built in 1947.

The PGE owned fewer than 100 box cars in 1955, and only about 300 in
1959 (after buying 200 new cars in 1958). So I imagine sightings of them
would be very rare indeed in the STMFC era. I believe there was a large
aluminum smelting operation in British Columbia, in addition to lots of
lumber.

I agree with Richard AC, ONT, and TH&B box car sightings were not unusual
esp near US-Canadian border. From the ancient FCL (pre-freightcars list) I
seem to recall someone mentioned spotting an AC box car in Mexico.

Tim O'Connor

I can add to this and other reports numerous photos from my own
collection of ONT, TH&B, and Algoma Central cars below the border,
including AC single sheathed cars in Mason City, IA and Minneapolis,
an ONT steel car in San Francisco, and TH&B 40 ton USRA wood sheathed
box cars in New Haven and Kansas City.
Richard Hendrickson


Re: TH&B and PGE cars in the states circa 1957

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Bill McCoy wrote:
I know CP and CN cars came to the states in the 50's but did cars belonging to other Canadian carriers (PGE, TH&B, NAR, etc.)come south of the border in 1957?
I have a photo of a PGE box car in SP's Taylor Yard at Los Angeles in the late 1950s.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: TH&B and PGE cars in the states circa 1957

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Nov 28, 2010, at 9:22 AM, John wrote:


Bill,

In 1957 the Ontario Northland (ONT) owned 1,000 40' steel boxcars,
series 90000-90999. Newsprint was a major product shipped by the
ONR to city newspapers including many northeastern U.S. cities. At
any time a large number of these cars would have been south of the
border.

A color photo of ONT 90710 in Columbus Ohio is in Morning Sun book,
Canadian Railways Vol 1.

The same book also has color views of TH&B yellow and black 40'
steel boxcars in Council Bluffs, Iowa,

John Riddell
I can add to this and other reports numerous photos from my own
collection of ONT, TH&B, and Algoma Central cars below the border,
including AC single sheathed cars in Mason City, IA and Minneapolis,
an ONT steel car in San Francisco, and TH&B 40 ton USRA wood sheathed
box cars in New Haven and Kansas City.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Atlas HO USRA Steel Rebuilt Boxcar

Steve and Barb Hile
 

Actually, the Rock Island only rebuilt 800 of their 2500 USRA double
sheathed cars with steel sides. Many of them remained double sheathed wood
well into the 50's, receiving AB brakes, as required.



Supposedly, the Atlas ad shows the N scale car with 8 panels while the
summary text states 10 panels. 10 panels would be OK for the RI, but the
height issue, Ben raises is still unresolved.



Steve Hile



_____

From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
benjaminfrank_hom
Sent: Sunday, November 28, 2010 11:14 AM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Atlas HO USRA Steel Rebuilt Boxcar







Don Burn wrote:
"No it is not accurate for any of those roads."

True, but some corrections need to be made to the following comments to set
the record straight.

"The EJ&E rebuilds had 10 panel sides not 8, and the C&NW was taller with a
blank panel added to the ends."

True. In addition, the EJ&E rebuilds had rectangular panel roofs, nd the CNW
rebuilds had Viking roofs. See Ted Cullotta's Prototype Railroad Modeling
Journal Vol 1 for Clark Propst's article on modeling the EJ&E cars.

"The DT&I had rebuilds but they had Murphy Dry Lading roofs."

Incrrect. The DT&I rebuilds had a unique radial roof with 15 U-section
carlines. The Atlas model with 5/5/5 ends and 8-panel sides can actually be
used as a starting point for these cars as the ends were not modified during
the rebuilding, but the roof will have to be scratchbuilt.
http://dti.railfan.net/Equipment_Database/DTI11000sUSRA40';dsBox/ArtDTI11500s
.html
http://dti.railfan.net/Pototype_Images/rs/DTI11542.jpg

"I could be wrong but I don't believe the other roads had rebuilds."

You are incorrect. Rock Island rebuilt 2500 of their own USRA DS boxcars in
1936 and 1940, and later leased 500 C&NW rebuilt boxcars in 1955. You are
correct that Ann Arbor and Canadian National did not have any USRA rebuilt
boxcars, but both roads did own rebuilt boxcars (in the case of AA, via the
Wabash).

Ben Hom


Re: TH&B and PGE cars in the states circa 1957

John <jriddell@...>
 

Bill,

In 1957 the Ontario Northland (ONT) owned 1,000 40' steel boxcars, series 90000-90999. Newsprint was a major product shipped by the ONR to city newspapers including many northeastern U.S. cities. At any time a large number of these cars would have been south of the border.

A color photo of ONT 90710 in Columbus Ohio is in Morning Sun book, Canadian Railways Vol 1.

The same book also has color views of TH&B yellow and black 40' steel boxcars in Council Bluffs, Iowa,

John Riddell

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" <wpmccoy@...> wrote:

I know CP and CN cars came to the states in the 50's but did cars belonging to other Canadian carriers (PGE, TH&B, NAR, etc.)come south of the border in 1957?

Thanks.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL


Re: TH&B and PGE cars in the states circa 1957

RDG2124 <RDG2124@...>
 

Have a photo of a TH&B box car (insulated?) being switched into the Luden's (cough drops) plant at Reading, PA in 1960 if that helps. Also, one of the Morning Sun books on the Reading Co. shows a yellow TH&B box car at Reading at a slightly later date.

The 1959 opening of the St. Lawrence Seaway greatly altered traffic patterns between Canada and the U.S. Traffic that had headed south for U.S. ports, especially winter time traffic to ice free ports, vanished over night.

Evan Leisey
Bennett, CO

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill <wpmccoy@comcast.net>
To: STMFC <STMFC@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sun, Nov 28, 2010 5:22 am
Subject: [STMFC] TH&B and PGE cars in the states circa 1957




I know CP and CN cars came to the states in the 50's but did cars belonging to other Canadian carriers (PGE, TH&B, NAR, etc.)come south of the border in 1957?

Thanks.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Atlas HO USRA Steel Rebuilt Boxcar

Benjamin Hom
 

Don Burn wrote:
"No it is not accurate for any of those roads."

True, but some corrections need to be made to the following comments to set the record straight.


"The EJ&E rebuilds had 10 panel sides not 8, and the C&NW was taller with a blank panel added to the ends."

True. In addition, the EJ&E rebuilds had rectangular panel roofs, nd the CNW rebuilds had Viking roofs. See Ted Cullotta's Prototype Railroad Modeling Journal Vol 1 for Clark Propst's article on modeling the EJ&E cars.


"The DT&I had rebuilds but they had Murphy Dry Lading roofs."

Incrrect. The DT&I rebuilds had a unique radial roof with 15 U-section carlines. The Atlas model with 5/5/5 ends and 8-panel sides can actually be used as a starting point for these cars as the ends were not modified during the rebuilding, but the roof will have to be scratchbuilt.
http://dti.railfan.net/Equipment_Database/DTI11000sUSRA40';dsBox/ArtDTI11500s.html
http://dti.railfan.net/Pototype_Images/rs/DTI11542.jpg


"I could be wrong but I don't believe the other roads had rebuilds."

You are incorrect. Rock Island rebuilt 2500 of their own USRA DS boxcars in 1936 and 1940, and later leased 500 C&NW rebuilt boxcars in 1955. You are correct that Ann Arbor and Canadian National did not have any USRA rebuilt boxcars, but both roads did own rebuilt boxcars (in the case of AA, via the Wabash).


Ben Hom


Re: TH&B and PGE cars in the states circa 1957

mopacfirst
 

I have a slide of a yellow/black TH&B car in Kansas in 1970, in a Rock Island freight.

Ron Merrick

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Thomas Baker <bakert@...> wrote:






I have a slide of a TH&B yellow/black box car in Ft. Dodge, Iowa, photographed back in 1955.
That's not 1957, but it comes very close to the time period and suggests such cars were also around in 1957.

Tom

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