Date   

Re: TH&B and PGE cars in the states circa 1957

pge253 <gregkennelly@...>
 

As Tony Thompson and Tim O'Connor have pointed out, photographs show that PGE cars did get to Southern California in the late 1950s. These would likely have been rare to very rare sightings, however. From at least October 1939 until sometime between July 1959 and April 1961, the "Official Railway Equipment Register" carried the following statement on the PGE page: "Freight Cars owned are used only in Switching Service with direct connections." (I have a gap in my PGE pages from the ORERs between Apr 1930 and Oct. 1939 and the statement started appearing some time in that period).

Prior to October 1952, the only "direct connection" shown for the PGE was with the CPR at Vancouver, BC (via PGE-operated barge service). With the extension of the PGE to Prince George, a direct connection with CNR was established at that city. All other connections (British Columbia Electric, Great Northern, Vancouver & Lulu Island) were via the CPR at Vancouver. When the PGE was extended South to North Vancouver in 1956, a second connection to CNR was established at that point and the CPR connection was moved to North Vancouver from Vancouver itself (CPR had trackage rights over the CNR across the Second Narrows Bridge, IIRC). There was a sign at the West end of the interchange track that read "CPR and CNR engines must not proceed beyond this point".

When the PGE ceased operating its own barge service between Squamish and Vancouver in February 1957, connections were established at Squamish with the Milwaukee Road (by barge via Foss Launch & Tug Co.) and the Union Pacific (by barge via Island Tug & Barge Ltd.). At this time, the ORERs still carried the note about "Switching Service with direct connections" and the MILW and UP connections were not direct - they relied on another (marine) common carrier. A direct connection with Northern Alberta was established when the PGE reached Dawson Creek, BC in 1958. By the time the "Switching Service with direct connections" restriction was removed from the ORER entries, we are very close to the end of the era covered by this list.

Hope this sheds some light on the PGE interchange question.

Greg Kennelly
Burnaby, BC


Re: Magazine Index

Jon Miller <atsf@...>
 

On 11/29/2010 8:33 PM, lnnrr wrote:
The Kalmbach website announces the return of the index.
http://trc.trains.com/modeltrainindex
Coming January 2011
Chuck Peck


OK, I'm confused (easy to do). I thought the NMRA took this over
and was going to do the rework and posting, not Kalmbach. What
happened??? There doesn't seem to be any mention of the NMRA at all on
the Kalmbach announcement.

--
Jon Miller
For me time stopped in 1941
Digitrax--Chief/Zephyr systems, JMRI User
NMRA Life member #2623
Member SFRH&MS


Magazine Index

lnnrr <lnnrr@...>
 

The Kalmbach website announces the return of the index.
http://trc.trains.com/modeltrainindex
Coming January 2011
Chuck Peck


Paging Dan Biernacki

leakinmywaders
 

Is Dan Biernacki a member of this list, or might someone here be able to help me get in contact with him? I would like to seek permission to publish three of the builders photographs of Erie 40ft boxcars 93700 and 95000 from his collection (images posted online at Elwood's Fallen Flags) in an article I am writing with Matt Herson on Northern Pacific leased boxcars, for the NP Ry Historical Association's journal, Mainstreeter.

Off list please contact me by email at leakinmywaders[at]yahoo[dot]com. Thanks for any assistance.

Chris Frissell
Polson, MT


Focus on Freight Cars, Volume 2

Ted Culotta
 

I just wanted to send a message to alert everyone that Focus on Freight
Cars, Volume Two is finally a reality. I will begin shipping these books
next week. This volume covers double sheathed box and automobile cars and
the information was again expertly written by our own Richard Hendrickson.
There is an offer to purchase the book at a discount by December 15th.

As the state of Speedwitch has also been grist for the mill and fodder for
the bars at prototype meets, I have written a brief update on Speedwitch.
Both information about the book (as well as how to order it) and the update
on Speedwitch can be accessed at www.speedwitch.com.

I hope to see many of you at Cocoa Beach in a little over a month. Until
then, happy holidays.

Cheers,
Ted Culotta


Re: [SPAM] Re: Atlas HO USRA Steel Rebuilt Boxcar

Andy Cich
 

I forgot to mention that one of these cars, 82697, is still in existence at
the Monticello, IL museum, and is often used in their
freight train consist. Car was repainted several years ago and the
lettering is close, but not quite the right style. They also have a
full size Speedwitch Wabash single sheath auto car.

Chet French
Dixon, IL



47947 is the single sheath car at the Monticello Railroad Museum. Also, in
relatively nearby Atlanta IL, 47194 resides at the grain elevator museum.


Andy Cich


Re: Susie Q 500 series box car

al_brown03
 

Warning: guesswork follows!

Maywald, "Classic Freight Cars", vol 7, p 45, has a photo of NYS&W 508, and calls it "a secondhand rebuild originally built in 1936". An IH of 10'0" is legible. Lucas, "History of the NYS&W", p 172, shows a photo of NYS&W 502, and says it's ex-Lehigh Valley. If so, it wasn't a USRA boxcar: LV had none. The photos show a 6/5/5 inverse "Murphy" end (also arguing against USRA heritage, but suggesting that it's much older than '36) and an extra-long side-sill brace under the doors, leading me to wonder if it hadn't once been an auto car. I can't see the roof well enough to deduce the type. I'll take a WAG that these were originally double-sheathed auto cars, rebuilt to steel, then rebuilt again with single doors. I suspect '36 was the date of one of the rebuildings. I can't place it in the LV's roster, but I don't have photos of all series. At this point I defer to those more knowledgeable.

-- hth --

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., "Jeff" <uvrail@...> wrote:

Hello;
I am looking for information on the Susquehanna Railroad
500 series box cars. Were these cars USRA rebuilds?
What roof was used to build or rebuild these?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you;
Jeff Sankus


Re: Atlas HO USRA Steel Rebuilt Boxcar

cef39us <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "cef39us" <cfrench@...> wrote:


Ben,

In 1941, the Wabash converted 250 of the 22000-22499 double sheathed
automobile cars into steel side box cars with 10-panel sides. The cars had a 40'-6"IL, and 9'-2"IH like the 1934,8-panel side rebuilts,
but were three inches wider at 9'-0"IW. The cars retained the radial roofs from the original cars, making them the only rebuilt cars on the Wabash to have that type roof. Cars had 7/8 corrugated ends and Vulcan trucks rated at 40 tons. Youngstown corrugated and Superior 7-panel doors were both used on the cars. Cars were numbered 82600-82849.

I forgot to mention that one of these cars, 82697, is still in existence at the Monticello, IL museum, and is often used in their
freight train consist. Car was repainted several years ago and the
lettering is close, but not quite the right style. They also have a
full size Speedwitch Wabash single sheath auto car.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Atlas HO USRA Steel Rebuilt Boxcar

cef39us <cfrench@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:

SNIP<
The best use for this specific model (5/5/5 Murphy ends, 8-panel sides) is for "basic" rebuilds done by ACL/C&WC and SL-SF where the ends and roof of the original car were not modified during the rebuilding. You'd have to rework the side sills to the correct appearance, but that's some relatively easy work. Martin Lofton's did a series of articles on modeling USRA DS rebuilds in 1988-1989 issues of RMC that illustrate how to do this, and the task is made easier today through the availability of Archer rivets.

I'm still trying to find prototypes for the 5/5/5 and 7/8 Murphy end cars with 10-panel side cars.

Ben,

In 1941, the Wabash converted 250 of the 22000-22499 double sheathed
automobile cars into steel side box cars with 10-panel sides. The cars had a 40'-6"IL, and 9'-2"IH like the 1934,8-panel side rebuilts,
but were three inches wider at 9'-0"IW. The cars retained the radial roofs from the original cars, making them the only rebuilt cars on the Wabash to have that type roof. Cars had 7/8 corrugated ends and Vulcan trucks rated at 40 tons. Youngstown corrugated and Superior 7-panel doors were both used on the cars. Cars were numbered 82600-82849.

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Susie Q 500 series box car

Jeff Sankus
 

Hello;
I am looking for information on the Susquehanna Railroad
500 series box cars. Were these cars USRA rebuilds?
What roof was used to build or rebuild these?
Any information would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you;
Jeff Sankus


Re: Hooks under UP S-40-10

spsalso
 

I have also heard the term "Keeley" from a former SP&S employee. I wonder how widespread the term was.


Ed

Edward Sutorik


October 1944-December 1945 ORER help needed

Bill Welch
 

Gentlemen:

I have a gap in my collection of FGE/WFE/BRE related pages for the
six issues between October 1944 through December 1945. I have a plan
to fill most if not all of these gaps but for the moment I would
appreciate some help with three questions related to three groups of
similar Fruit Growers Express cars.

At some point between July 1944 and April 1946 FGE added entries for
three groups of 50-foot overhead bunker cars: FOBX 775-799, FOBX
4000-4175 and FOBX 4975-4999. I would like to be able to identify as
precisely as possible when these cars began to be added to FGE's
fleet. Also during this time FGE changed the ten cars in the FGEX
600-650 series to FOBX 600-650. I would like to narrow down when this
change was made.

As I will mention these cars during my presentation at Cocoa Beach in
January, I would like to have this information soon and thus seek
help from people on this list.

Any help will be appreciated and can be offered offline at my address
below.

Thank you for your attention.

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...


Re: Atlas HO USRA Steel Rebuilt Boxcar

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

The CN cars also had a "fishbelly" underframe, not modelled by the Atlas car shown in the linked photos.

If you want the CN car in HO, get the Sylvan kit on the secondary market (my first choice should I want another of these) or bash the Tichy steel rebuild. I've done both, and the Sylvan car is FAR less work.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:



Bob Chaparro asked:
"The Atlas HO scale USRA steel rebuilt boxcar due in March 2011
(http://www.atlasrr.com/HOFreight/hosteelrebuilt1.htm) will be offered
for the following roads:

Ann Arbor, Canadian National, Chicago & North Western, Detroit, Toledo & Ironton, Elgin, Joliet & Eastern and Rock Island

Does this car appear accurate for those roads?"

No. We've discussed this model and its precursors in N, O, and S scales extensively in the past. These models are hermaphodites that do not model any specific prototypes. (In fact, it's one of the few models out there that I wish the tooling wwas damaged beyond repair and a computer virus destroys all of the electronic files.) Anyone interested in specific details on why these are foobies issues should consult both my and Larry Kline's rebuilt boxcar spreadsheet in the group files section or are invited to contact me off list; simply put, here are the issues with each of these road names:

Ann Arbor: ends, roof.
CN: ends, roof.
CNW: ends, roof, height.
DT&I: roof.
EJ&E: roof.
RI: ends, roof, height.

Additionally, the recessed side sill is poorly modeled for all variants. The supports are the wrong shape, and the appearance is much too "shallow".


"Would it be accurate for other roads as well?"

The best use for this specific model (5/5/5 Murphy ends, 8-panel sides) is for "basic" rebuilds done by ACL/C&WC and SL-SF where the ends and roof of the original car were not modified during the rebuilding. You'd have to rework the side sills to the correct appearance, but that's some relatively easy work. Martin Lofton's did a series of articles on modeling USRA DS rebuilds in 1988-1989 issues of RMC that illustrate how to do this, and the task is made easier today through the availability of Archer rivets.

I'm still trying to find prototypes for the 5/5/5 and 7/8 Murphy end cars with 10-panel side cars.


Ben Hom


Re: Hooks under UP S-40-10

Dennis Williams
 

Jim.
  Most interesting are the trucks, leaf, coil. Must have stolen them from the Standard Railway!!
  Dennis

--- On Sun, 11/28/10, Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@...> wrote:


From: Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Hooks under UP S-40-10
To: "Stm Frt Cars" <STMFC@...>
Date: Sunday, November 28, 2010, 4:39 PM


 



One of Don Strack's UP photos is of an S-40-10 stockcar. It has several
hooks under the side sill. What are they for?

http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/UP-Freight-Cars/12573244_k2YDv#902616546_Y2DuX-X2-LB

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com

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Re: TH&B and PGE cars in the states circa 1957

Bill McCoy
 

Thanks to everyone who replied. It looks like PGE was after my date but the TH&B 3000 series cars were regulars.

Next question. Is the IM 10'6" 8 rung ladder with Canadian sill step end ladders and the 4/4 ends correct for the TH&B?

If so I need to hunt for one.

Thanks as usual.

Bill McCoy
Jax, FL

--- In STMFC@..., "benjaminfrank_hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:



Bill McCoy asked:
"I know CP and CN cars came to the states in the 50's but did cars
belonging to other Canadian carriers (PGE, TH&B, NAR, etc.)come south
of the border in 1957?"

They most certainly did. Here are some examples from 1950 from Rutland shifting lists in Armand Premo's collection:

Boxcars
Car / Train No / Date
TH&B 3074 / 9 / 17-Nov-50
TH&B 3096 / 9 / 29-Nov-50
TH&B 3115 / 9 / 10-Jul-50
TH&B 3213 / 9 / 5-Jul-50
TH&B 3292 / X71 / 25-Mar-50
TH&B 4134 / 9 / 16-Jul-50
TH&B 4694 / 9 / 21-Nov-50

ONT 90350 / 9 / 21-Jul-50
ONT 90427 / 9 / 6-Jul-50
ONT 90599 / 9 / 30-Nov-50
ONT 90741 / 9 / 10-Nov-50
ONT 90822 / 9 / 30-Nov-50
ONT 90936 / 9 / 17-Nov-50

Flatcar
TH&B 1877 / 9 / 3-Nov-50


Ben Hom


Re: Hooks under UP S-40-10

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Jack Burgess quoted:
"The YV had friction bearings in all of the cars and when you'd have a hot box or one that is warming up, that'd hang what you'd call a Keeley . . . I just figured that the Keeley was made by the Keeley Company some place. After the War [WW2] I had
to go and take a physical after I was discharged. They sent me to Pontiac, Illinois. I went in there, by gosh, it was the Keeley Institute . . . the Keeley was a water cure . . ."
Famous early in the 20th century as a "cure" for alcoholism, the Keeley Cure involved injections of gold chloride (which is not known to have health effects) and consumption of a "tonic," reputedly containing a certain amount of alcohol. Formulas used at the Keeley Institute were secret, leading to medical skepticism. But some successes were had at Keeley, partly due to treating patients as persons who could recover, not as incurable or sinful people. Vaudeville routines and other kinds of humor in the first decades of the 1900s contained jokes about "taking the Keeley Cure," so I'm sure that's the source of the nickname for the journal box cooler.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Hooks under UP S-40-10

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

Here is what a YV brakeman told me many years ago about Keeley's:

"The YV had friction bearings in all of the cars and when you'd have a hot
box or one that is warming up, that'd hang what you'd call a Keeley. This
was a tank with water in it and it had a hose and you'd just open the
journal box lid and fasten the hose in there and it would just kinda drip in
there and keep that sucker cool enough so that you could get to some place
to set it out or take it into Merced Falls that way. I just figured that the
Keeley was made by the Keeley Company some place. After the War [WW2] I had
to go and take a physical after I was discharged. They sent me to Pontiac,
Illinois. I went in there, by gosh, it was the Keeley Institute. I wondered,
what in the hell is this? It turned out that the Keeley was a "drop"
rehabilitation deal back in the early days! The cure was a water cure and so
I think that this tank got the name Keeley because that was the popular way
to cure somebody. I don't think that it was made by the Keeley Company at
all. I think that that was just a clever name they hung on it.

"It looked like one of these tanks that you carry air in for airing up tires
remote from the pump. It was hung right off of a grab iron and I suppose
that it was 2'-3' long and 10" in diameter and it had this rubber hose on
it. You'd just hang that thing in there and keep things cool.

"I remember one time they burned a journal so bad that we had to change the
wheels. That is hard to do with a car load of logs. With arch bar trucks
it's not too bad, you can just drop the bolts and pull the journal boxes and
the whole works out. With a car with cast trucks, you can't do that out in
the field, you'd have to go out with a wrecker and put a new truck on it.
Things were always done in a most expeditious manner on the YV. The YV had
all kinds of clever ways to do things."

I've often thought that modeling a car with a Keeley on it would be a nice
detail.

Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Hooks under UP S-40-10

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Jim, they were for coolant tanks to drip cold water on hot journals - a primitive but, apparently fairly effective way to deal with hot boxes. Many SP and PFE cars also had them in the 1920s and '30s, though they're in shadow and often difficult to see in photos.
Officially on the SP these were "journal box coolers," but crews universally called them "Keeley cans." They can be found in photos of steam locomotive tenders on the SP too. I have a bunch of photos of cabooses with them in my Vol. 2 on SP cabooses, and an SP drawing for them on p. 157 of that book.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Hooks under UP S-40-10

Greg Martin
 

Jim,

I remember a conversation with Richard Hendrickson about this photo as he
had a copy as well and we never could figure out why they were there.

Greg Martin

In a message dated 11/28/2010 4:39:48 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
jimhayes97225@... writes:




One of Don Strack's UP photos is of an S-40-10 stockcar. It has several
hooks under the side sill. What are they for?

_http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/UP-Freight-Cars/12573244_k2YDv#90261
6546_Y2DuX-X2-LB_
(http://donstrack.smugmug.com/UtahRails/UP-Freight-Cars/12573244_k2YDv#902616546_Y2DuX-X2-LB)

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com

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Re: Hooks under UP S-40-10

Jim Hayes
 

Thanks, Richard


Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


On Sun, Nov 28, 2010 at 5:14 PM, Richard Hendrickson <
rhendrickson@...> wrote:



On Nov 28, 2010, at 4:39 PM, Jim Hayes wrote:

One of Don Strack's UP photos is of an S-40-10 stockcar. It has
several
hooks under the side sill. What are they for?
Jim, they were for coolant tanks to drip cold water on hot journals -
a primitive but, apparently fairly effective way to deal with hot
boxes. Many SP and PFE cars also had them in the 1920s and '30s,
though they're in shadow and often difficult to see in photos.

Richard Hendrickson

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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