Date   

Re: Unsual routings?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 9, 2010, at 10:10 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

Tony is doubtless correct that these cars were captured by the local
carrier and loaded for destinations in the east in violation of the
car service rules....
Richard Hendrickson
Richard, an SFRD reefer loaded in Minnesota and consigned to anywhere
in Michigan, Minnesota, Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee,
Mississippi,
Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Oregon, Idaho, Washington, Arkansas --
or to
ANY STATE serviced directly by the Santa Fe -- could be in 100%
compliance
with AAR Car Service Rules as spelled out explicity in every ORER.
(Pages
748-754 of the January 1953 ORER.)
Tim, at the risk of flogging a dead horse, those cars weren't
consigned to any of the places you list. They were consigned to New
York. And that's definitely a violation of the car service rules as
spelled out explicitly, etc.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Loads...link to AMB; sorry! (UNCLASSIFIED)

Kurt Laughlin <fleeta@...>
 

Eldon: What is the structural beam load made from?

KL


Re: New ART Steel Reefer Runs Now Available

mopac1 <mopac1@...>
 

Gentlemen,



Prior to the 1964 color change to orange with the N&W's acquisition the
Wabash, virtually all A.R.T. reefers were painted with yellow sides. Some
do appear to shift towards orange in color photos or as they age & weather.
As Tim mentions, a small class of insulated boxcars assigned to the Wabash
were painted a dark blue. This was short lived, just about a six month
period.



An A.R.T. book is in the works with Tony. Hopefully it will follow the MDT
book.



Gene Semon



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2010 11:51 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: New ART Steel Reefer Runs Now Available



Scott

But then, there's that famous color photo of hundreds of ART reefers
in Grand Junction Colorado in the late 1950's and NOT ONE yellow ART
reefer can be seen. Every one of the cars has a Wabash flag on it.

However, I have seen other, later color photos of ART RBL's that do
appear to be more on the yellow side -- and yet some photos do show
a definite light orange color, and some even show DARK BLUE paint.
Again, these are all Wabash era cars. Personally I'm convinced that
ART was painting everything a light orange color in the 1950's, and
some RBL's may have gotten a lighter color, almost yellow, later.

I agree they went to a deeper orange color when N&W took over.

Maybe after Roger Hinman finishes the MDT book and Bill Welch the
FGE book, someone with the knowledge will write the definitive book
on ART! :-)

Tim O'Connor


And looking at the '60 car, it's got yellow sides, and the photo shows
orange sides.
I think that's fine (if I follow what you're saying)-- 1960 they were still
yellow; after N&W logo replaced Wabash in 1964, orange came in.
Scott Pitzer


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Re: Applying Decals

Tony Higgins
 

I once had Champ solvent ruin decals on a F&C gon and shunned it in favor of Micro Sol. However, I found that M-S did not work as aggressively as I liked, leaving the decal visible, even on smooth surface applications. I went back to the Champ stuff recently for some Sunshine models (Rail Graphics) and it worked fine, full strength, multiple applications. Then, I used it on an F&C wagontop box car. It worked great.
This makes me wonder about shelf life. I didn't mark the purchase date on either of these solvents, but they're years old. Has anyone heard of a shelf life for decal solvents?

Tony Higgins
pittsford, NY

--- In STMFC@..., "marcusphil" <marcusphil@...> wrote:

I prefer Solvaset to Micro Sol, but both work about the same.
What does make a big difference is the decal film. Over their
lifetime Champ and Walthers used different decal films. Today
there are many different products on the market. You have to
experiment to see what works best with the decal you are using.
It is a lot of fun when you are mixing decal suppliers on the
same car. I have also found that wood sheathed cars require different
techniques than steel cars.

Phil Marcus
Modeling 1953 in "O" gage


Re: Loads...link to AMB; sorry! (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: FOUO

Guys;

Hey, I didn't included it, but:


http://www.rgspemkt.com/215-P1.html

and

http://www.rgspemkt.com/206


Sorry!

Elden Gatwood


Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: FOUO


Iron Modeler

Clark Propst
 

"Sounds like a modeling challenge ala Iron Chef" Ben Hom

Ben and I talked about having an "Iron Modeler" competition before.

That AHM DD DS model would be a good one.

"You have 8 hours to make this 'thing' into something prototypical...sort of...

Clark Propst


Re: New ART Steel Reefer Runs Now Available

bpe <behni@...>
 

What I'm talking about is this car: http://tinyurl.com/28qfell

If you look at the two photos of models, they have obvious yellow side, yet the prototype photo is obviously orange sides. Seems to me he should have either put a photo of the yellow side car up, or had the cars painted orange.

I'm a LOT less inclined to buy if it looks fishy, especially given Intermountain's well-known color issues.

Brian Ehni

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Scott

But then, there's that famous color photo of hundreds of ART reefers
in Grand Junction Colorado in the late 1950's and NOT ONE yellow ART
reefer can be seen. Every one of the cars has a Wabash flag on it.

However, I have seen other, later color photos of ART RBL's that do
appear to be more on the yellow side -- and yet some photos do show
a definite light orange color, and some even show DARK BLUE paint.
Again, these are all Wabash era cars. Personally I'm convinced that
ART was painting everything a light orange color in the 1950's, and
some RBL's may have gotten a lighter color, almost yellow, later.

I agree they went to a deeper orange color when N&W took over.

Maybe after Roger Hinman finishes the MDT book and Bill Welch the
FGE book, someone with the knowledge will write the definitive book
on ART! :-)

Tim O'Connor


And looking at the '60 car, it's got yellow sides, and the photo shows
orange sides.
I think that's fine (if I follow what you're saying)-- 1960 they were still yellow; after N&W logo replaced Wabash in 1964, orange came in.
Scott Pitzer


Re: New ART Steel Reefer Runs Now Available

Gary Roe
 

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor

Maybe after Roger Hinman finishes the MDT book and Bill Welch the
FGE book, someone with the knowledge will write the definitive book
on ART! :-)



Tim,

It's not me; but someone is.

gary roe
quincy, illinois


Re: Applying Decals

al_brown03
 

I wick with a Kleenex not a paper towel, and only with the corner.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., dennyanspach <danspach@...> wrote:

I prefer Solvaset to Micro Sol, but both work about the same.
Yes, they certainly do, but Solvaset is much more powerful. Because of this, you have to be very careful with its use on some decal papers (MicroScale comes to mind). At the same time, it is also the setting solution of choice when you really mean business. Even then, I use it only when I am certain that decals are almost dry.

I suspect that Champs Decalset and Walthers Solvaset are similar in action, if not formulation.

Micro Sol does not work very well every time ith either Champ, or older thicker decals. It certainly works well with Microscale, of course.

Applying setting solution is indeed an art- not too early, not too late, not too much, not too little. The real art comes when you can successfully apply the solution with only the solution droplets themselves touching and flowing onto the decal surface- avoiding completely any contact with the brush hairs themselves.

The paper towel wicking that Jim Betz describes is a big help, the only caveat being that it the decal is still "floating" the powerful wicking action of the paper can pull the decal right along with the excess fluid.

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento









Re: RDG/ Southern box car questions

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim, you misunderstand the challenge. If I do this project, you're doing it
too. Allez chemin-de-fer!


Ben Hom


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Tim
O'Connor
Sent: Friday, December 10, 2010 12:17 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: RE: [STMFC] RDG/ Southern box car questions

 
Ben

Ok, I'll bet you can't turn this sow's ear into a silk purse.
If you lose you have to buy me a beer the next time we meet and
vice versa. And we'll probably have to buy a round for the jury
too.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/9/2010 07:21 PM Thursday, you wrote:
I wrote:
[The AHM 40 ft DS automobile boxcar will] ably fill a niche in a
proto-freelance roster for a road that needs furniture or lumber
cars.
http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/ahmhoscalefreightcars/id70.html
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun37b.pdf
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun55.pdf

Tim O'Connor replied:
"Urf! That's like saying Phyllis Diller can fill in for Angelina Jolie
in a typical girlfriends roster..."

Sounds like a modeling challenge ala Iron Chef - care to put your money
where your pie-hole is?

Ben Hom


Re: Multiple Micro Sol Applications - Thanks

okiemax
 

I want to thank the group members for their responses to my request for advice.
The information has been helpful to me, and I believe it will be helpful in the future to anyone searching for similar information.


Re: RDG/ Southern box car questions

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
Ok, I'll bet you can't turn this sow's ear into a silk purse. If you lose you have to buy me a beer the next time we meet and
vice versa. And we'll probably have to buy a round for the jury too.
Ben, never bet Tim any beer. Last time I did so, he lost but wouldn't pay up.

Tony Thompson
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937;
e-mail: thompson@...


Re: Unsual routings?

Tim O'Connor
 

Tony is doubtless correct that these cars were captured by the local
carrier and loaded for destinations in the east in violation of the
car service rules....
Richard Hendrickson

Richard, an SFRD reefer loaded in Minnesota and consigned to anywhere
in Michigan, Minnesota, Indiana, Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, Mississippi,
Alabama, Georgia, Florida, Oregon, Idaho, Washington, Arkansas -- or to
ANY STATE serviced directly by the Santa Fe -- could be in 100% compliance
with AAR Car Service Rules as spelled out explicity in every ORER. (Pages
748-754 of the January 1953 ORER.)

However, although the above could be in compliance, it generally would
only happen if circumstances existed that allowed it -- like no other
suitable car of more appropriate ownership was available (e.g. there is
a strong preference to send an FGE car back to Florida, or to send a
home road car, rather than send an SFRD).

Tim O'Connor


Re: New ART Steel Reefer Runs Now Available

Tim O'Connor
 

Scott

But then, there's that famous color photo of hundreds of ART reefers
in Grand Junction Colorado in the late 1950's and NOT ONE yellow ART
reefer can be seen. Every one of the cars has a Wabash flag on it.

However, I have seen other, later color photos of ART RBL's that do
appear to be more on the yellow side -- and yet some photos do show
a definite light orange color, and some even show DARK BLUE paint.
Again, these are all Wabash era cars. Personally I'm convinced that
ART was painting everything a light orange color in the 1950's, and
some RBL's may have gotten a lighter color, almost yellow, later.

I agree they went to a deeper orange color when N&W took over.

Maybe after Roger Hinman finishes the MDT book and Bill Welch the
FGE book, someone with the knowledge will write the definitive book
on ART! :-)

Tim O'Connor

And looking at the '60 car, it's got yellow sides, and the photo shows
orange sides.
I think that's fine (if I follow what you're saying)-- 1960 they were still yellow; after N&W logo replaced Wabash in 1964, orange came in.
Scott Pitzer


Re: Unsual routings?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 9, 2010, at 11:56 AM, Anthony Thompson wrote:

Richard Hendrickson knows more about SFRD than I do, but I'd
guess that these two carloads represent confiscation of empty SFRD
cars by the local railroad to serve Green Giant. In January, SFRD may
not have minded.
Tony is doubtless correct that these cars were captured by the local
carrier and loaded for destinations in the east in violation of the
car service rules. Even in January, SFRD wanted their empties back
so they could be cleaned and prepared for re-loading. However, as
with Pacific Fruit Express, SFRD cars were generally in much better
condition than those of other reefer operators and their agents in
the midwest and east fought a constant battle to prevent other
railroads from appropriating their cars and failing to return them.

Howard Garner's speculation about diversion is probably wrong with
regard to these cars, since they were going to other plants owned by
the same shipper. It's certainly true, however, that shippers'
traffic managers sometimes specified convoluted routes with an eye
toward profitable diversions en route, or simply to keep the cargo
"warehoused" in the cars as long as possible. The extreme example of
the latter practice was followed by years by the Hunt Foods plant in
Southern California, which cleaned out its warehouse every spring to
avoid California's annual inventory tax, routed the cars via the San
Diego & Arizona Eastern through Mexico and then had them held south
of the border where no tax would be due on their contents.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: New ART Steel Reefer Runs Now Available

Scott Pitzer
 

--- In STMFC@..., Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...> wrote:

And looking at the '60 car, it's got yellow sides, and the photo shows
orange sides.
I think that's fine (if I follow what you're saying)-- 1960 they were still yellow; after N&W logo replaced Wabash in 1964, orange came in.
Scott Pitzer

=================================
The Amarillo Railroad Museum and Missouri Pacific Historical Society have
just received five runs of our ART steel ice reefers:

1943 paint scheme - kits only
1960 paint scheme - assembled and kits
1964 paint scheme - assembled and kits

Check out e-Bay right now, our website probably by noon tomorrow, or e-mail


Re: RDG/ Southern box car questions

Tim O'Connor
 

Ben

Ok, I'll bet you can't turn this sow's ear into a silk purse.
If you lose you have to buy me a beer the next time we meet and
vice versa. And we'll probably have to buy a round for the jury
too.

Tim O'Connor

At 12/9/2010 07:21 PM Thursday, you wrote:
I wrote:
[The AHM 40 ft DS automobile boxcar will] ably fill a niche in a
proto-freelance roster for a road that needs furniture or lumber
cars.
http://www.ho-scaletrains.net/ahmhoscalefreightcars/id70.html
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun37b.pdf
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun55.pdf

Tim O'Connor replied:
"Urf! That's like saying Phyllis Diller can fill in for Angelina Jolie
in a typical girlfriends roster..."

Sounds like a modeling challenge ala Iron Chef - care to put your money
where your pie-hole is?

Ben Hom


Re: Athearn SFRD 50' Reefer and Accumate Proto:HO

Tim O'Connor
 

Charles, sorry I didn't realize you meant the new SFRD ice reefer.
I have the model and also the Overland brass version, and it seems
to me that Athearn cut a lot of corners, no doubt to keep down the
tooling costs, as the prototype underframe is far more elaborate
than your typical vanilla Duryea. I imagine that to model just the
Duryea draft gear it might be easier to scratchbuild your own gear
from strip styrene and use a Kadee whisker coupler. These fit into
a smaller (narrower) box than the old #5's did.

Denny, Accurail sells all of their floors as separate detail parts.
They're well well done, and quite cheap to buy. If you have any old
Front Range box car kits, cut out the floor, throw out the underframe,
and the Accurail is a drop-in. Well worth the trouble IMO.

Tim O'Connor

Although for a different car, Jim Singer tells me that the Accurail 40' boxcar underframe can be an excellent -and superior- replacement for that on the Athearn 40 footers. Now, don't interpret this as my saying that you should purchase an Accurail boxcar kit merely as an organ donor....
Denny


Re: Riveted Plate Ends - was RDG/ Southern box car questions

 

Thanks, Jim. Funny I have been to your link to Stan's many times. Guess if it was a snake, it would have bit me, lol!

Rich Christie

--- On Thu, 12/9/10, Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@...> wrote:

From: Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@...>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Riveted Plate Ends - was RDG/ Southern box car questions
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 2:04 PM
Stan Rydarowicz makes riveted flat
ends.
You can buy them here. http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/stanparts.pdf
And here's a picture.
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/stan34nrc19414.jpg

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 11:53 AM, Rich C <rhcdmc@...>
wrote:



Another missing detail part needed in HO. I am
planning on making a Reading
XMu and BXMu and would like to know if anyone makes
them. Those Reading
boxes fit in with the current discussion.

Rich Christie

--- On Thu, 12/9/10, EDWIN HAWKINS <hawk0621@...<hawk0621%40sbcglobal.net>>
wrote:

From: EDWIN HAWKINS <hawk0621@...
<hawk0621%40sbcglobal.net>>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RDG/ Southern box car questions
To: STMFC@...
<STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 11:04 AM



Dave,
Thanks for your reply. Pat heard about the error
earlier.
Take care, Ed

--- On Thu, 12/9/10, Dave Pfeiffer <dave.pfeiffer@...<dave.pfeiffer%40verizon.net>>
wrote:

From: Dave Pfeiffer <dave.pfeiffer@...<dave.pfeiffer%40verizon.net>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] RDG/ Southern box car questions
To: STMFC@...
<STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 7:26 AM



Ed,

Reading XMt box cars 100000 - 100499 had 7/8
corrugated ends. XMt's
100500 - 100999 had riveted plate ends.

Dave Pfeiffer

----- Original Message -----
From: "EdwardM" <ed_mines@...
<ed_mines%40yahoo.com>>
To: <STMFC@...
<STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>>
Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 10:22 AM
Subject: [STMFC] RDG/ Southern box car questions

The new RPC is terrific with many photos I've
never seen before.

Did RDG box cars series 100500 have riveted plate
ends or 7/8 Murphy
ends?
The new RPC says Murphy (p.92). Ted's spiral
bound box car reference
manual says riveted ("X29") ends (p.129).

(I have the utmost respect for the gentlemen
connected with both
publications).

Were the ends of the taller RDG USRA steel box
cars (101000-102999)
identical to the ends of the flat ended Seaboard
& NC&StL box cars? The
sides must have had significantly different river
patterns, right? Was
there ever a Red Ball kit for these cars? I think
there was a cast end.

Did the AHM door box car have the Murphy solid
steel roof that most of
these USRA steel box had? How close were these
models to Southern's
double
door, ds box cars?

Ed



------------------------------------

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    STMFC-fullfeatured@...



Re: New ART Steel Reefer Runs Now Available

Brian Paul Ehni <behni@...>
 

And looking at the '60 car, it's got yellow sides, and the photo shows
orange sides.

--
Thanks!

Brian Paul Ehni

From: scottpitzer2002 <scottp459@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2010 02:23:00 -0000
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Re: New ART Steel Reefer Runs Now Available






The wood on the track base looks like a normal color....

please tell me this car was a special for a "Think Pink" campaign...
Scott Pitzer

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "bpe"
<behni@...> wrote:

That '64 scheme sure looks vivid compared to the prototype photo. One almost
could say "pinkish". Is it really that vivid on the model?

Brian Ehni

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , asychis@
wrote:

To be quick,

The Amarillo Railroad Museum and Missouri Pacific Historical Society have
just received five runs of our ART steel ice reefers:

1943 paint scheme - kits only
1960 paint scheme - assembled and kits
1964 paint scheme - assembled and kits

Check out e-Bay right now, our website probably by noon tomorrow, or e-mail
me off list for more details.

Thanks,

Jerry Michels
Amarillo Railroad Museum

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