Date   

Re: Salt Service

dennyanspach <danspach@...>
 

One summer, I occupied myself as a lowly laborer in an Estherville, Iowa Morrell meat packing plant. Along with my fellow seasonal workers ("the PhDs". By serendipity, all of us were in grad schools during the year), one of our recurring jobs was to unload the salt cars that would periodically arrive at the plant, the salt needed for keeping the fresh hides from spoiling before they could be tanned.

Estherville was on the Rock Island, and the salt always arrived in intact but ancient dedicated single sheathed boxcars originating in Kansas. To minimize demurrage, we were ordered to empty the car right away, which always involved overtime- which was OK for us. The salt was loose in the car, and we used coal scoops and wheel barrows to transport the salt to a hopper that opened into the hide cellar under the main plant kill floor.

It was hotter than hades outside, and worse in the close confines of the boxcar. The salt would get into and under your clothes- a totally unpleasant job. One of us would "stand lookout" while slumping guzzling a bottle of Pepsi ("5 cents"), while the others toiled, and after a period, it would be the next person's turn, etc. The periodic resting was good for both survival and the wallet.

As to ATSF cars in salt service off-line, I believe that on this list several years ago was a photo of an ATSF ice reefer in Iowa that listers decided that in all probability was in salt service.


Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Re: Marker brackets on oil-tank cars

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 13, 2010, at 7:35 AM, Steve Vallee wrote:

Dear Evan...
You asked me about the running boards on that Santa Fe tank car
with the marker brackets on it. I'm no expert like most of the
members on this group, so please go easy on me.

This is what I see in the drawing:

The car has a full length running board, but is NOT at the
bottom OR at the top of the car. The running board is about half
way up the side of the tank, almost level with the tops of the
curved handrail at the "A" end of the tankers end. It ends right
under the first "9" in the car #99921.

It also has a ladder like step (3 rungs are shown),that look
like the old steam engine steps from the pilot to the running
board, going down from the tankers running board to the end running
board.
There's no mystery about this car. ATSF 99921 was a Tk-J class
10,500 gal. tank car built in 1914. The Tk-Js were the last in a
series of classes starting with the Tk-G class which had "wasp-
waisted" underframes with fishbelly center sills and running boards
as described above, a design that was unique to the Santa Fe. Most
of the 600 cars in the Tk-J class lasted through the 1950s and many
were still in service in the 1960s. Originally purchased primarily
to transport Bunker C steam locomotive fuel, they were later used for
diesel fuel, water, and a variety of other liquids ranging from
reclaimed diesel engine lubricating oil to gasoline for MW section
cars. All of this information and more is in my book on Santa Fe
Tank Cars published by the Santa Fe Railway Historical and Modeling
Society, for those who may be inclined to do a bit of research as an
alternative to uninformed speculation.

Additionally, I recently received the following information from John
Moore, another SFRH&MS researcher and author:

Here is what I could gather on tank cars as auxiliary tenders. They
appear to be few in number and no real roster has been found. I
believe they were used in New Mexico, Colorado, Kansas, perhaps
Oklahoma and Texas. I also believe they allowed water service to be
curtailed on branch lines where business was falling off. Tenders
used as auxiliary tenders were also seen on the branch lines in the
same areas.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: "Tichy" BAR flat car

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 12, 2010, at 11:40 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

A while back we were discussing the Tichy flat car and listed
BAR as an owner. This is the first photo I've seen of one of them.
Tim, the Tichy model is only a stand-in at best for the BAR car, as
the prototype had 11 stake pockets per side and the Tichy model has 12.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Marker brackets on oil-tank cars

Steve Vallee
 

Dear Evan...
You asked me about the running boards on that Santa Fe tank car with the marker brackets on it. I'm no expert like most of the members on this group, so please go easy on me.

This is what I see in the drawing:

The car has a full length running board, but is NOT at the bottom OR at the top of the car. The running board is about half way up the side of the tank, almost level with the tops of the curved handrail at the "A" end of the tankers end. It ends right under the first "9" in the car #99921.

It also has a ladder like step (3 rungs are shown),that look like the old steam engine steps from the pilot to the running board, going down from the tankers running board to the end running board.

Like I said, I'm no expert. Sorry for any confusion on my part.

Steve Vallee


"Tichy" BAR flat car

Tim O'Connor
 

A while back we were discussing the Tichy flat car and listed
BAR as an owner. This is the first photo I've seen of one of them.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160518805719

Tim O'

P.S. If you ever wondered what become of the "Tichy kitbash" cars
rebuilt for the Wabash (available as a Sunshine mini-kit) here you
are http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370465456047


Re: Unusual routings?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Dan Holbrook wrote:
From my AAR files on Car Service Rules:
"Special Car Order 45 issued in 1942 and reissued in 1948, suspends application of Car Service Rules 2 and 3 as to refrigerator cars owned by the A.T.& S.F. Railway in order to permit handling of SFRD refrigerators on a basis similar to that applying to privately owned railroad-controlled refrigerator cars." (Dated Dec 1954)

The railroad using the SFRD cars was in compliance with the Car Service Rules at the time they were loaded.
Rereading this SCO 45 text appears only to place SFRD cars in the same category as Fruit Growers, PFE, MDT and other privately-owned but railroad controlled refrigerator cars. Presumably this means that such cars were under their owners' direction and could only be confiscated with permission of the owner. Would that exempt them entirely from Car Service Rules 1 through 6?
Dan, could you comment? I may well be misunderstanding this SCO entirely.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Unusual routings?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

John King wrote:
How much control did the managers of privately owned railroad controlled refrigerator cars have over where their cars were loaded? Did SFRD pool cars with other refrigerator lines during off peak periods on the Santa Fe?
I don't know that much about SFRDD practices, but they sure didn't pool voluntarily with PFE (nor was the converse true). Those managers didn't have any CONTROL, but eastern agents for both SFRD and PFE worked tirelessly to urge car distributors and yardmasters to send those empty reefers westward. Since junction reports told them where the cars were, and when unloaded, they could call the right people and annoy them into compliance. But control, no.
During WW II and for a few years afterward, ALL refrigerator cars were nationally pooled. I'm not talking about that period.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Unsual routings?

John King
 

How much control did the managers of privately owned railroad controlled refrigerator cars have over where their cars were loaded? Did SFRD pool cars with other refrigerator lines during off peak periods on the Santa Fe?

John King

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "lstt100@..." <lstt100@...> wrote:

From my AAR files on Car Service Rules:

"Special Car Order 45 issued in 1942 and reissued in 1948, suspends application of Car Service Rules 2 and 3 as to refrigerator cars owned by the A.T.& S.F. Railway in order to permit handling of SFRD refrigerators on a basis similar to that applying to privately owned railroad-controlled refrigerator cars." (Dated Dec 1954)

The railroad using the SFRD cars was in compliance with the Car Service Rules at the time they were loaded.

Dan Holbrook


Re: Salt Service

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 12, 2010, at 2:44 PM, Cyril and Lynn Durrenberger wrote:

Do you know if the salt was shipped in bulk or in sacks?
I don't know for sure, Cyril, but I'd assume it was in sacks for
(relative) ease of handling.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Salt Service

water.kresse@...
 

From what I can tell, the salt to the FGE re-icing platform at Clifton Forge (C&O Rwy) to a track level shed which had an elevator for lifting bags up to the high-deck.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Cyril and Lynn Durrenberger" <durrecj@sbcglobal.net>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2010 5:44:39 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Salt Service

Do you know if the salt was shipped in bulk or in sacks?

Cyril Durrenberger

--- On Sun, 12/12/10, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com> wrote:

From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Salt Service
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 12, 2010, 9:59 AM







 



  


    
      
      
      On Dec 12, 2010, at 4:45 AM, barryb2again wrote:



I have just bought a built-up Westerfield ATSF Bx-3 Salt Sevice box  
car on eBay UK for $8.70!!!
When this item first appeared I had a rummage through the PFE bible  
and found only informatiomn on the use of salt, but nothing in  
regard to it's purchase, storage or distribution.
It is a fact that several companies had salt service cars, it is  
obvious that they were used to distribute salt to icing stations  
but what is not so obvious, to me at least, is how the salt was  
moved to the distribution centres.
T&NO was close to and served the salt mines at New Iberia, La. so  
gave PFE 'direct' access to a supplier, for instance. I'm  
reasonably sure that others reefer operators did too.
My thoughts revolve around who and how the salt would be shipped  
from the supplier, by the usual jumble of available free runners or  
would PFE, ATSF etc use their own salt service cars to fetch the  
salt or only transload it for distribution. Would distance from  
source have been a consideration.


I won't speak for PFE (perhaps Tony Thompson will) but Tom Madden is  

correct, citing John Dobyne's Santa Fe box car book, that salt for  

Santa Fe ice docks came from Hutchison and Lyons, KS and was  

transported system-wide in old box cars equipped with refrigerator  

car hinged doors to insure that the door openings were weather-

proof.  Some obsolete Bx-24 class truss rod 40' box cars inherited  

from the Kansas City, Mexico & Orient were used in this service - I  

have a nice photo of one converted at La Junta CO in 1947 with a  

permanent placard reading "RETURN TO LYONS KANS. FOR SALT LOADING" -  

and, as they deteriorated rapidly, they were replaced in the early  

1950s by former Bx-3 and Bx-6 class sectional-sheathed cars, also  

with reefer doors.  As with cars in hide service, those in salt  

service were at the end of their useful lives, could not be used for  

anything else, and suffered heavily from corrosion.  As the Santa  

Fe's salt cars were in dedicated service, they never went off-line in  

interchange.



Richard Hendrickson









    
    

    
    


 



  





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Stamping hopper ribs, was: Reading class HTf and HTh hoppers/rivet heracy

Bruce Smith
 

"EdwardM" <ed_mines@yahoo.com> 12/12/10 12:42 PM >>>
How big are HO scale rivets? .005"? .007"? And how tall? .002"? These
are teeny tiny to an old geezer like me and from a few feet away I
wonder how noticeable their absence would be. Better to concentrate on
scale thickness ladders and stirrup steps.
Ed

Ed,

Following up on Ed Walters reply, I would add that the human eye is
incredibly sensitive to textural differences, thus the eye can readily
spot the difference between scale rivets and no rivets, and can even see
the difference between non-scale and scale rivets. In addition, I
choose to add details because I KNOW that they are there <G>.

Now, it should be noted that some railroads were early adopters of
welding and therefore some of their cars should be welded, not riveted,
requiring removal of rivets from existing models ;^)

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL


Re: Salt Service

Cyril Durrenberger
 

Do you know if the salt was shipped in bulk or in sacks?

Cyril Durrenberger

--- On Sun, 12/12/10, Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com> wrote:

From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Salt Service
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, December 12, 2010, 9:59 AM







 









On Dec 12, 2010, at 4:45 AM, barryb2again wrote:



I have just bought a built-up Westerfield ATSF Bx-3 Salt Sevice box
car on eBay UK for $8.70!!!
When this item first appeared I had a rummage through the PFE bible
and found only informatiomn on the use of salt, but nothing in
regard to it's purchase, storage or distribution.
It is a fact that several companies had salt service cars, it is
obvious that they were used to distribute salt to icing stations
but what is not so obvious, to me at least, is how the salt was
moved to the distribution centres.
T&NO was close to and served the salt mines at New Iberia, La. so
gave PFE 'direct' access to a supplier, for instance. I'm
reasonably sure that others reefer operators did too.
My thoughts revolve around who and how the salt would be shipped
from the supplier, by the usual jumble of available free runners or
would PFE, ATSF etc use their own salt service cars to fetch the
salt or only transload it for distribution. Would distance from
source have been a consideration.


I won't speak for PFE (perhaps Tony Thompson will) but Tom Madden is

correct, citing John Dobyne's Santa Fe box car book, that salt for

Santa Fe ice docks came from Hutchison and Lyons, KS and was

transported system-wide in old box cars equipped with refrigerator

car hinged doors to insure that the door openings were weather-

proof. Some obsolete Bx-24 class truss rod 40' box cars inherited

from the Kansas City, Mexico & Orient were used in this service - I

have a nice photo of one converted at La Junta CO in 1947 with a

permanent placard reading "RETURN TO LYONS KANS. FOR SALT LOADING" -

and, as they deteriorated rapidly, they were replaced in the early

1950s by former Bx-3 and Bx-6 class sectional-sheathed cars, also

with reefer doors. As with cars in hide service, those in salt

service were at the end of their useful lives, could not be used for

anything else, and suffered heavily from corrosion. As the Santa

Fe's salt cars were in dedicated service, they never went off-line in

interchange.



Richard Hendrickson


























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: SANTA FE FE-22 REBUILT BOX CARS

Paul Lyons
 

Richard,

Would you also please sent me a copy of the scan. The model is done, but I would like to see if it is right. I used a photo from Charlie Slater of a Fe 23, supposedly the same B end.

Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: Richard Hendrickson <rhendrickson@opendoor.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Dec 12, 2010 1:33 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] SANTA FE FE-22 REBUILT BOX CARS




On Dec 12, 2010, at 12:59 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

Al of the photos that I have found of the Santa Fe FE-22 boxcars
feature
the end with the end doors. Does anyone know of a photo showing the
"B" end?
Bill, I'm sending you a scan off-list.

Richard Hendrickson









[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: SANTA FE FE-22 REBUILT BOX CARS

Paul Lyons
 

Bill,

I did not find one when I asked the list earlier in the year. If one surfaces, please share it with me.

Thanks,
Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: WILLIAM PARDIE <PARDIEW001@HAWAII.RR.COM>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, Dec 12, 2010 12:59 pm
Subject: [STMFC] SANTA FE FE-22 REBUILT BOX CARS





Al of the photos that I have found of the Santa Fe FE-22 boxcars feature
the end with the end doors. Does anyone know of a photo showing the
"B" end?

Thanks in advance.

Bill Pardie

.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Shake/Take Cocoa Beach DT&I Gondola work-in-progress project.

dennyanspach <danspach@...>
 

For those of you on the list participating in the this cooperative 2009 project from The Bash at the Beach and are unaware of it, note that there is active and productive dialogue going on on the Yahoo! Shake_N_Take list. As usual at this time of year, the goal is for participants to work on their projects preparatory to bringing their projects to Cocoa in a few weeks.

DEnny
Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Re: SANTA FE FE-22 REBUILT BOX CARS

Richard Hendrickson
 

This is actually the B end of an Fe-21 single door car, but the B
ends on Fe-21, Fe-22, and Fe23 classes were all the same, as all
three were rebuilt from Fe-S class wood sheathed cars.

Richard Hendrickson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: SANTA FE FE-22 REBUILT BOX CARS

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 12, 2010, at 12:59 PM, WILLIAM PARDIE wrote:

Al of the photos that I have found of the Santa Fe FE-22 boxcars
feature
the end with the end doors. Does anyone know of a photo showing the
"B" end?
Bill, I'm sending you a scan off-list.

Richard Hendrickson


SANTA FE FE-22 REBUILT BOX CARS

WILLIAM PARDIE
 

Al of the photos that I have found of the Santa Fe FE-22 boxcars feature
the end with the end doors. Does anyone know of a photo showing the
"B" end?

Thanks in advance.

Bill Pardie

.


Re: Stamping hopper ribs, was: Reading class HTf and HTh hoppers/rivet heracy

eddie_walters <eddie_walters@...>
 

Ed -

I have the "disadvantage" of being one of the young guys. Missing rivets are definitely visible! Archer rivet decals make rivet lines a breeze.

Ed (the other one).

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "EdwardM" <ed_mines@...> wrote:

How big are HO scale rivets? .005"? .007"? And how tall? .002"? These are teeny tiny to an old geezer like me and from a few feet away I wonder how noticeable their absence would be. Better to concentrate on scale thickness ladders and stirrup steps.
Ed


Re: Wanted: Blue box offset side hopper

ed_mines
 

Whatever happened to all the blue box kits? Are they under the table at
train shows? What did the hobby shops do with their stock?
They are all meeting in my attic and waiting to be picked up by a spaceship.

97441 - 97460 of 192721