Date   

Re: RDG "Bethlehem Gons" Built in 1941-1942

Bill Kelly
 

Ed,
A photo of RDG 25953 can be found at this site,
http://www.steamfreightcars.com/gallery/gon/rdgaarmain.html

Later,
Bill Kelly


Ed Hawkins wrote:
STMFC,
Reading had 4 series of 52'-6" drop-end gondola cars (railroad
classes
GHH and GHJ) built in equal numbers (500 each) by Bethlehem Steel
Co.
or by the railroad in 1941-1942. The car no. series were
25900-25999,
26000-26099, 26100-26499, and 26500-26899. There was also a single
GHH
car numbered 27000 built by BSC in 1944. I have located just one
pre-1960 photograph of cars from these series, 25903 (obtained from

Rich Burg), which shows the use of drop ends having straight
corrugations like those used on the very similar B&O O-59 and O-59A

cars.

Can anyone confirm that all 1,000 of these RDG gondola cars had the

same original drop ends with straight corrugations? Also, is there
any
evidence that the original drop ends were ever replaced with
Dreadnaught or Improved Dreadnaught drop ends during the
1940s-1950s?

The identity of additional pre-1960 photo sources for cars in series

25900-26899 will also be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins
____________________________________________________________
Globe Life Insurance
$1* Buys $50,000 Life Insurance. Adults or Children. No Medical Exam.
http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/4d09845a2a21cd99d4m02vuc


Re: Tichy tank car model # 4020

Jim Hayes
 

Walt, Russ Pinchbeck wrote a good how-to article in the July 2002 RMC. I'll
send you a copy off line.
Black Cat makes decals just for this one.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


On Wed, Dec 15, 2010 at 1:59 PM, <WaltGCox@...> wrote:



With typically poor timing I finally bought a six pack of these cars last
month with the intention of building them as CC&F "war emergency" tank
cars. Now Abacus models has announced that they will be offering kits of
the
CC&F car.
I would be interested in learning what changes, if any (and no doubt there
will be some), need to be made to the Tichy car to accurately model the
Canadian car. tia Walt







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Tichy tank car model # 4020

WaltGCox@...
 

With typically poor timing I finally bought a six pack of these cars last
month with the intention of building them as CC&F "war emergency" tank
cars. Now Abacus models has announced that they will be offering kits of the
CC&F car.
I would be interested in learning what changes, if any (and no doubt there
will be some), need to be made to the Tichy car to accurately model the
Canadian car. tia Walt











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Fw: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] Fwd: Cartier boxcars, etc.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Pierre wrote:
Now imagine my saying it with my best Frank Oz impression. :-)
No need! That's what I heard <g>.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Fw: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] Fwd: Cartier boxcars, etc.

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Now imagine my saying it with my best Frank Oz impression. :-)
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Patience Young Skywalker, patience.
Ah, classical line you are quoting, education may be proceeding.

Tony


Re: Fw: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] Fwd: Cartier boxcars, etc.

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Patience Young Skywalker, patience.
Ah, classical line you are quoting, education may be proceeding.

Tony


Re: Fw: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] Fwd: Cartier boxcars, etc.

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I've nothing but patience, and many unfinished STMFC's to build as is. ;) But I look forward to seeing whatever Abacus Models offers in future.

Steve Lucass.

--- In STMFC@..., "Pierre" <pierre.oliver@...> wrote:

Patience Young Skywalker, patience.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@> wrote:

Bruce--

Yes, it is an ambitious list for a start-up. I see many holes in available model STMFC's being filled by their kits. But it'd be nice to see product offered for sale from them.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Bruce Smith <smithbf@> wrote:


On Dec 15, 2010, at 1:13 PM, steve lucas wrote:

Your thoughts on Abacus Models, gentlemen?

Steve Lucas..
In addition to the cars listed in the email you forwarded, there are
numerous other cars of interest to this list.
http://www.abacusmodelworks.com/products.htm

Some I'm puzzled over, such as the welded NH flat, which is already
been done by Speedwitch.

Some I'm really looking forward to, including the READING auto car
(can't we get a nice XM though?), the aforementioned CC&F war
emergency tank (although you don't need a lot of these <G>), the MDT
M4 and some of the Seaboard and M&StL boxes...

With no product or prices <G> yet, we'll have to wait and see, but
its an ambitious list for a roll-out.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Fw: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] Fwd: Cartier boxcars, etc.

Pierre <pierre.oliver@...>
 

Patience Young Skywalker, patience.
Pierre Oliver

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@...> wrote:

Bruce--

Yes, it is an ambitious list for a start-up. I see many holes in available model STMFC's being filled by their kits. But it'd be nice to see product offered for sale from them.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Bruce Smith <smithbf@> wrote:


On Dec 15, 2010, at 1:13 PM, steve lucas wrote:

Your thoughts on Abacus Models, gentlemen?

Steve Lucas..
In addition to the cars listed in the email you forwarded, there are
numerous other cars of interest to this list.
http://www.abacusmodelworks.com/products.htm

Some I'm puzzled over, such as the welded NH flat, which is already
been done by Speedwitch.

Some I'm really looking forward to, including the READING auto car
(can't we get a nice XM though?), the aforementioned CC&F war
emergency tank (although you don't need a lot of these <G>), the MDT
M4 and some of the Seaboard and M&StL boxes...

With no product or prices <G> yet, we'll have to wait and see, but
its an ambitious list for a roll-out.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0






Re: Fw: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] Fwd: Cartier boxcars, etc.

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Bruce--

Yes, it is an ambitious list for a start-up. I see many holes in available model STMFC's being filled by their kits. But it'd be nice to see product offered for sale from them.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Bruce Smith <smithbf@...> wrote:


On Dec 15, 2010, at 1:13 PM, steve lucas wrote:

Your thoughts on Abacus Models, gentlemen?

Steve Lucas..
In addition to the cars listed in the email you forwarded, there are
numerous other cars of interest to this list.
http://www.abacusmodelworks.com/products.htm

Some I'm puzzled over, such as the welded NH flat, which is already
been done by Speedwitch.

Some I'm really looking forward to, including the READING auto car
(can't we get a nice XM though?), the aforementioned CC&F war
emergency tank (although you don't need a lot of these <G>), the MDT
M4 and some of the Seaboard and M&StL boxes...

With no product or prices <G> yet, we'll have to wait and see, but
its an ambitious list for a roll-out.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0






Re: Fw: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] Fwd: Cartier boxcars, etc.

Bruce Smith
 

On Dec 15, 2010, at 1:13 PM, steve lucas wrote:

Your thoughts on Abacus Models, gentlemen?

Steve Lucas..
In addition to the cars listed in the email you forwarded, there are
numerous other cars of interest to this list.
http://www.abacusmodelworks.com/products.htm

Some I'm puzzled over, such as the welded NH flat, which is already
been done by Speedwitch.

Some I'm really looking forward to, including the READING auto car
(can't we get a nice XM though?), the aforementioned CC&F war
emergency tank (although you don't need a lot of these <G>), the MDT
M4 and some of the Seaboard and M&StL boxes...

With no product or prices <G> yet, we'll have to wait and see, but
its an ambitious list for a roll-out.

Regards
Bruce

Bruce F. Smith
Auburn, AL
http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/index.pl/bruce_f._smith2

"Some days you are the bug, some days you are the windshield."
__
/ &#92;
__<+--+>________________&#92;__/___ ________________________________
|- ______/ O O &#92;_______ -| | __ __ __ __ __ __ __ __ |
| / 4999 PENNSYLVANIA 4999 &#92; | ||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||__||
|/_____________________________&#92;|_|________________________________|
| O--O &#92;0 0 0 0/ O--O | 0-0-0 0-0-0


Re: DT&I gon color (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: FOUO

Thanks, Ed!

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Ed
Hawkins
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 10:28 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] DT&I gon color (UNCLASSIFIED)




On Dec 15, 2010, at 6:13 AM, Gatwood, Elden SAW wrote:

All my photos show DT&I gons in black, but I could swear I had one in
red; like PRR FCC shade red.

Ed;

Were those DT&I "G31 clones" (9100-9299) painted originally in the
billboard DT&I with small compass centered scheme, or did that come
later?
Elden,
The cars had a circular DT&I emblem, which I believe was 27" in diameter,
positioned on the panel adjacent to the right-hand ladder.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: FOUO


Re: Fw: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] Fwd: Cartier boxcars, etc.

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Dec 15, 2010, at 11:13 AM, steve lucas wrote:

Your thoughts on Abacus Models, gentlemen?

From: Doug Stark <4everwaiting@...>
Subject: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] Fwd: Cartier boxcars, etc.
To: cdN-frt-cars-n-ops@...
Received: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 12:12 AM


I have no affiliation whatsoever with this manufacturer, but feel a
shout-out is warranted to a new start-up resin manufacturer that out
of the gate offers three prototypically correct Canadian offerings -

CCF war emergency tank cars:
http://www.abacusmodelworks.com/CCF.htm

CP ARA standard 1932 boxcar conversion to stock cars:
http://www.abacusmodelworks.com/ARA.htm

Quebec Cartier Mining 1937 AAR boxcars:
http://www.abacusmodelworks.com/Cartier.htm
The latter two models are of interest only to Canadian modelers. The
CC&F tank cars, however, should be welcomed by modelers below the
border because they are essentially identical to the War Emergency
tank cars built during WW II by AC&F for the U.S. Army Quartermaster
Corps and for Shippers Car Line. Perhaps Abacus can be encouraged to
provide decals for the U.S. versions and market these kits to U.S.
modelers. Modeling tank cars in resin isn't easy, and I'd like to
see photos of the models.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Fw: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] Fwd: Cartier boxcars, etc.

Paul Lyons
 

Steve,

What is there to think? Pierre has not yet produced anything under the Abacus brand yet. I have high hopes that his models will be equal to Speedwitch, or perhaps better.

Paul Lyons

-----Original Message-----
From: steve lucas <stevelucas3@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, Dec 15, 2010 11:13 am
Subject: [STMFC] Fw: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] Fwd: Cartier boxcars, etc.




Your thoughts on Abacus Models, gentlemen?

Steve Lucas..

“When a government starts trying to cancel dissent or avoid dissent is frankly when it’s rapidly losing its moral authority to govern.” - Stephen Harper

--- On Wed, 12/15/10, Doug Stark <4everwaiting@...> wrote:

From: Doug Stark <4everwaiting@...>
Subject: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] Fwd: Cartier boxcars, etc.
To: cdN-frt-cars-n-ops@...
Received: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 12:12 AM



I have no affiliation whatsoever with this manufacturer, but feel a
shout-out is warranted to a new start-up resin manufacturer that out
of the gate offers three prototypically correct Canadian offerings -

CCF war emergency tank cars:
http://www.abacusmodelworks.com/CCF.htm

CP ARA standard 1932 boxcar conversion to stock cars:
http://www.abacusmodelworks.com/ARA.htm

Quebec Cartier Mining 1937 AAR boxcars:
http://www.abacusmodelworks.com/Cartier.htm

The last one particularly intrigues me - does anyone model the
landlocked, non-interchange Quebec mining roads (Cartier, QNSL,
Arnaud/Wabush)? They don't seem to get much
attention. Atlas/Stewart did offer their C630 in Cartier in HO and N
respectively. Conversely, Life-Like/Hobbycraft/Walthers have for
years collectively had their heads in the sand in ignoring QNSL
newsprint cars to the point of bogus advertising/box copy roadname
and production counts which omitted the QNSL cars.

Doug Stark

From CanModelTrains


Fw: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] Fwd: Cartier boxcars, etc.

steve lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Your thoughts on Abacus Models, gentlemen?
 
Steve Lucas..

“When a government starts trying to cancel dissent or avoid dissent is frankly when it’s rapidly losing its moral authority to govern.” - Stephen Harper

--- On Wed, 12/15/10, Doug Stark <4everwaiting@...> wrote:


From: Doug Stark <4everwaiting@...>
Subject: [CDN-frt-cars-n-ops] Fwd: Cartier boxcars, etc.
To: cdN-frt-cars-n-ops@...
Received: Wednesday, December 15, 2010, 12:12 AM


 



I have no affiliation whatsoever with this manufacturer, but feel a
shout-out is warranted to a new start-up resin manufacturer that out
of the gate offers three prototypically correct Canadian offerings -

CCF war emergency tank cars:
http://www.abacusmodelworks.com/CCF.htm

CP ARA standard 1932 boxcar conversion to stock cars:
http://www.abacusmodelworks.com/ARA.htm

Quebec Cartier Mining 1937 AAR boxcars:
http://www.abacusmodelworks.com/Cartier.htm

The last one particularly intrigues me - does anyone model the
landlocked, non-interchange Quebec mining roads (Cartier, QNSL,
Arnaud/Wabush)? They don't seem to get much
attention. Atlas/Stewart did offer their C630 in Cartier in HO and N
respectively. Conversely, Life-Like/Hobbycraft/Walthers have for
years collectively had their heads in the sand in ignoring QNSL
newsprint cars to the point of bogus advertising/box copy roadname
and production counts which omitted the QNSL cars.

Doug Stark

From CanModelTrains


Re: DT&I gon color

Ed Hawkins
 

On Dec 14, 2010, at 11:41 PM, cef39us wrote:

Were the DT&I 7000 series gons painted freight car red during
their entire life, or were they painted black during some period.
I am mainly interested in 1951. I knew they were FCR in the late
1950's and into the 60's, but in looking at photos I thought that
perhaps they were black during a period in the 1940's leading into
the 1950's.
Chet,
The only paint specs I have located for DT&I gondola cars were for
series 9100-9299, built 7-52, AC&F lot no. 3607. Entire car painted
black with white stencils.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: DT&I gon color

dennyanspach <danspach@...>
 

In a personal communication with Jim Hediger at MODEL RAILROADER (Jim is a well known DT&I modeler, and I believe his family worked for the DT&I), Jim -with his permission- states the following:

The DT&I 41-foot drop-end gons were series 7000-7299 (300 cars).
As far as I know, they should be painted black with white lettering and the old round herald.

Henry Ford painted his boxcars in the usual freight car dark red. However, open top cars (flats, gondolas, and hoppers) were all black, so my feeling is the new Pennroad management would have maintained the same colors on the DT&I.

Life-Like made a boxcar red set of DT&I gondolas with the round herald a couple of years ago, but I dont think this color is correct and it is the source of considerable confusion. I lived in Dearborn and worked in the area where most of the DT&I gons were used. I have never seen a prototype dark red DT&I gondola, or a color slide of one with the old round Ford-era herald, but I have seen many of these cars in black with the old herald.
Jim goes on to argue pretty strongly that the cars were probably never painted FCR during the era of our interest, and that arguments to the contrary (divining "color" from b&w photos) are not strong enough to act upon.

Confirmatory color photos of these cars are yet still to be found.


Denny S. Anspach MD


Sacramento







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


RDG "Bethlehem Gons" Built in 1941-1942

Ed Hawkins
 

STMFC,
Reading had 4 series of 52'-6" drop-end gondola cars (railroad classes GHH and GHJ) built in equal numbers (500 each) by Bethlehem Steel Co. or by the railroad in 1941-1942. The car no. series were 25900-25999, 26000-26099, 26100-26499, and 26500-26899. There was also a single GHH car numbered 27000 built by BSC in 1944. I have located just one pre-1960 photograph of cars from these series, 25903 (obtained from Rich Burg), which shows the use of drop ends having straight corrugations like those used on the very similar B&O O-59 and O-59A cars.

Can anyone confirm that all 1,000 of these RDG gondola cars had the same original drop ends with straight corrugations? Also, is there any evidence that the original drop ends were ever replaced with Dreadnaught or Improved Dreadnaught drop ends during the 1940s-1950s?

The identity of additional pre-1960 photo sources for cars in series 25900-26899 will also be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: DT&I gon color (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: FOUO

Chet;

All my photos show DT&I gons in black, but I could swear I had one in red;
like PRR FCC shade red.

Ed;

Were those DT&I "G31 clones" (9100-9299) painted originally in the billboard
DT&I with small compass centered scheme, or did that come later?

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Ed
Hawkins
Sent: Wednesday, December 15, 2010 1:08 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] DT&I gon color




On Dec 14, 2010, at 11:41 PM, cef39us wrote:

Were the DT&I 7000 series gons painted freight car red during
their entire life, or were they painted black during some period.
I am mainly interested in 1951. I knew they were FCR in the late
1950's and into the 60's, but in looking at photos I thought that
perhaps they were black during a period in the 1940's leading into
the 1950's.
Chet,
The only paint specs I have located for DT&I gondola cars were for
series 9100-9299, built 7-52, AC&F lot no. 3607. Entire car painted
black with white stencils.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins







Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: FOUO


DT&I gon color

cef39us <cfrench@...>
 

Gentlemen,

Were the DT&I 7000 series gons painted freight car red during
their entire life, or were they painted black during some period.
I am mainly interested in 1951. I knew they were FCR in the late
1950's and into the 60's, but in looking at photos I thought that
perhaps they were black during a period in the 1940's leading into
the 1950's.

TIA

Chet French
Dixon, IL


Re: Bethlehem Steel

David
 

--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Did Bethlehem steel have a car building subsidiary? Did other steel
manufacturers?
As mentioned earlier, Bethlehem's main freight car facility was the Cambria plant in Johnstown, PA. Corporate simplification in the early 1920s brought about the dba change from Cambria to Bethlehem, after a brief stint as Midvale in the Spring of 1923.

There were other occasional examples, such as TC&I in the 1920s, ASF right around 1900, and IIRC one of the Canadian builders was affiliated with a steel company. In general though, the steel companies didn't want to directly involve themselves in the feast-or-famine carbuilding business.

David Thompson

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