Date   

Re: Kingans meats

SUVCWORR@...
 

5th Avenue Carshops did 2 versions of the Kingan's car

GARX 9308
KGNX 3816

Both are out of production according to 5th Avenue's website

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: tgregmrtn@...
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 7:42 pm
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Kingans meats




If I am not mistaken 5th Ave. Car Shops did this car in the past. I am not sure

if they are still available or not but Jim Singer will be in Cocoa Beach on

Wednesday night (I knw that as I am his driver... LOL LOL ) and John Greedy

willbe as well and may be able to shed some light on the Kingan and I know JP

Barger will as far as I know.



Greg Martin











-----Original Message-----

From: JP Barger <bargerjp@...>

To: STMFC@yahoo <STMFC@...>; STMFC@yahoo <STMFC@...>

Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 8:27 am

Subject: [STMFC] Kingans meats









This is is not THE answer to Larry Sexton's question about the color of

Kingan's reefers, but rather some pretty good evidence pointing in the right

direction.



Three color pictures of the subject cars find themselves in my reefer pix

collection. The first car is 3862, a wood sided car. Source of the picture

is a slide of Chuck Yungkurth's. The car has a board roof of classic

appearance with the outside tongue and groove boards running across the car.

The sides are painted a shade I will describe related to the standard

floquil light orange as being on the yellow side of that. The roof and ends

are boxcar red. The side 6 rung ladders are the same color as the sides. The

fascia strip at the top of the side is also boxcar red. The lettering

showing any possible dates is too small, or not sharp enough, to be legible.



The second car is a horizontal seam steel car with a door like the Milwaukee

cars have, with two latch bars. It also has staggered vertical rivet rows

among its 10 panels. Diagonal steel roof, steel hatches. Build date is

probably 11/56. The sides of this car, numbered 3611, are on the orange side

of light orange, a different shade of light orange, perhaps halfway between

orange and light orange. Picture source is again Yungkurth's slide.



The third car, 3578, appears at the left in a Bob's Photo picture

principally devoted to New Haven switcher 0935, taken in Boston on 16 Sep

64. It is also a horizontal seam steel car. The color is even closer to

Floquil light orange, coming from the orange direction, only subtly

different from that of 3611.



On page 49 of Gene Green's wonderful color guide book, there are three more

color pictures of Kingan reefers. They are 3045 and 3894, both wood, and

both about halfway between reefer yellow and light orange, and steel reefer

3547,the color of which pretty much duplicates that of 3045, only perhaps

slightly toward the yellow side.Looking more carefully, I see that 3894 is

more orangy than 3045.



I would say that you could start with Floquil light orange, tinting it

with either yellow or regular orange, in either direction with one or the

other.



Thanks for the chance to share data. JP Barger























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Re: Everything has a name

Fred Swanson
 

I was in the boilermakers union for a number of years and it was always referred to as a spud bar. If there was a wrench on the one end it was called a spud wrench. Another little tidbit on a the size of the wrench was the size of the bolt and not the size of the opening.
Fred Swanson

--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

I have a photo of a diagonal panel roof being assembled. To align the
rivet holes the assembly crew is using a tool. There must be a name
for such a tool. Does anyone know? Could it be a simple as an
"alignment tool?"

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Everything has a name: that pesky drift pin

pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

Bill Welch wrote:

The picture I have is in my FGE/WFE/BRE Mechanical Car presentation at Cocoa Beach, which why I posed the question. We can look at it together, those of you that come to my presentation, and maybe reach some form of consensus on which name to give the tool.
I vote we call it a "Welch". In the context of roof sheets, it helps pull things together, and the result covers about everything.

Tom Madden - Merry Christmas to all!


Re: Everything has a name: that pesky drift pin

Bill Welch
 

The picture I have is in my FGE/WFE/BRE Mechanical Car presentation at Cocoa Beach, which why I posed the question. We can look at it together, those of you that come to my presentation, and maybe reach some form of consensus on which name to give the tool.

In the mean time, this has been very interesting.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "gettheredesigns" <rick@...> wrote:

You're all correct--not only does everything have a name, but often more than one name. I was once a foreman in a machine and welding shop, and we used a tapered pin to align holes for assembly. We called them a drift pin or drift, but in an industrial supply catalog, they are listed as alignment pins or alignment punches. To a blacksmith, a drift is a tapered bar that is forced through a hole to shape it or bring it to final size, and they are not always round in cross section. An oblong drift is used to shape the hole when making a hammer head, so it will fit a standard handle. As someone mentioned, sometimes the tapered pin forms the handle for a wrench; these are commonly used in structural steel erection. The length gives leverage to force the parts into alignment, then a bolt or rivet is inserted into an adjacent hole.
Rick Aylsworth

--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@> wrote:

Bill,

If it looks a little more complicated than a simple pin, it might be
what I know as a "cleco", which is a temporary fastener used in holes
intended to be riveted to allow the parts to be completely and correctly
aligned. The "celcos" are removed one by one and replaced by rivets.
One example of their use is in homebuilt aircraft manufacture.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

Bill Welch <fgexbill@> 12/23/10 4:34 PM >>>
I have a photo of a diagonal panel roof being assembled. To align the
rivet holes the assembly crew is using a tool. There must be a name
for such a tool. Does anyone know? Could it be a simple as an
"alignment tool?"

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Everything has a name

gettheredesigns <rick@...>
 

You're all correct--not only does everything have a name, but often more than one name. I was once a foreman in a machine and welding shop, and we used a tapered pin to align holes for assembly. We called them a drift pin or drift, but in an industrial supply catalog, they are listed as alignment pins or alignment punches. To a blacksmith, a drift is a tapered bar that is forced through a hole to shape it or bring it to final size, and they are not always round in cross section. An oblong drift is used to shape the hole when making a hammer head, so it will fit a standard handle. As someone mentioned, sometimes the tapered pin forms the handle for a wrench; these are commonly used in structural steel erection. The length gives leverage to force the parts into alignment, then a bolt or rivet is inserted into an adjacent hole.
Rick Aylsworth

--- In STMFC@..., "Bruce Smith" <smithbf@...> wrote:

Bill,

If it looks a little more complicated than a simple pin, it might be
what I know as a "cleco", which is a temporary fastener used in holes
intended to be riveted to allow the parts to be completely and correctly
aligned. The "celcos" are removed one by one and replaced by rivets.
One example of their use is in homebuilt aircraft manufacture.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> 12/23/10 4:34 PM >>>
I have a photo of a diagonal panel roof being assembled. To align the
rivet holes the assembly crew is using a tool. There must be a name
for such a tool. Does anyone know? Could it be a simple as an
"alignment tool?"

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...







------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Cocoa Beach Transportation

Steve and Barb Hile
 

I am seeking a ride from Orlando airport to and from Prototype Rails. I am
arriving on Thursday mid morning and leaving Sunday evening. I would be
glad to share expenses.



Please contact me off list at



shile@...



Thanks,

Steve Hile


Re: Kingans meats

Paul <buygone@...>
 

Sunshine also did the kit; it is or was their 24.10 and 24.11.



Paul C. Koehler



_____

From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
tgregmrtn@...
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 4:43 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Kingans meats






If I am not mistaken 5th Ave. Car Shops did this car in the past. I am not
sure if they are still available or not but Jim Singer will be in Cocoa
Beach on Wednesday night (I knw that as I am his driver... LOL LOL ) and
John Greedy willbe as well and may be able to shed some light on the Kingan
and I know JP Barger will as far as I know.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: JP Barger <bargerjp@... <mailto:bargerjp%40reboxx.com> >
To: STMFC@yahoo <STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> >;
STMFC@yahoo <STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> >
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 8:27 am
Subject: [STMFC] Kingans meats

This is is not THE answer to Larry Sexton's question about the color of
Kingan's reefers, but rather some pretty good evidence pointing in the right
direction.

Three color pictures of the subject cars find themselves in my reefer pix
collection. The first car is 3862, a wood sided car. Source of the picture
is a slide of Chuck Yungkurth's. The car has a board roof of classic
appearance with the outside tongue and groove boards running across the car.
The sides are painted a shade I will describe related to the standard
floquil light orange as being on the yellow side of that. The roof and ends
are boxcar red. The side 6 rung ladders are the same color as the sides. The
fascia strip at the top of the side is also boxcar red. The lettering
showing any possible dates is too small, or not sharp enough, to be legible.

The second car is a horizontal seam steel car with a door like the Milwaukee
cars have, with two latch bars. It also has staggered vertical rivet rows
among its 10 panels. Diagonal steel roof, steel hatches. Build date is
probably 11/56. The sides of this car, numbered 3611, are on the orange side
of light orange, a different shade of light orange, perhaps halfway between
orange and light orange. Picture source is again Yungkurth's slide.

The third car, 3578, appears at the left in a Bob's Photo picture
principally devoted to New Haven switcher 0935, taken in Boston on 16 Sep
64. It is also a horizontal seam steel car. The color is even closer to
Floquil light orange, coming from the orange direction, only subtly
different from that of 3611.

On page 49 of Gene Green's wonderful color guide book, there are three more
color pictures of Kingan reefers. They are 3045 and 3894, both wood, and
both about halfway between reefer yellow and light orange, and steel reefer
3547,the color of which pretty much duplicates that of 3045, only perhaps
slightly toward the yellow side.Looking more carefully, I see that 3894 is
more orangy than 3045.

I would say that you could start with Floquil light orange, tinting it
with either yellow or regular orange, in either direction with one or the
other.

Thanks for the chance to share data. JP Barger


Re: Kingans meats

Greg Martin
 

If I am not mistaken 5th Ave. Car Shops did this car in the past. I am not sure if they are still available or not but Jim Singer will be in Cocoa Beach on Wednesday night (I knw that as I am his driver... LOL LOL ) and John Greedy willbe as well and may be able to shed some light on the Kingan and I know JP Barger will as far as I know.

Greg Martin

-----Original Message-----
From: JP Barger <bargerjp@...>
To: STMFC@yahoo <STMFC@...>; STMFC@yahoo <STMFC@...>
Sent: Thu, Dec 23, 2010 8:27 am
Subject: [STMFC] Kingans meats




This is is not THE answer to Larry Sexton's question about the color of
Kingan's reefers, but rather some pretty good evidence pointing in the right
direction.

Three color pictures of the subject cars find themselves in my reefer pix
collection. The first car is 3862, a wood sided car. Source of the picture
is a slide of Chuck Yungkurth's. The car has a board roof of classic
appearance with the outside tongue and groove boards running across the car.
The sides are painted a shade I will describe related to the standard
floquil light orange as being on the yellow side of that. The roof and ends
are boxcar red. The side 6 rung ladders are the same color as the sides. The
fascia strip at the top of the side is also boxcar red. The lettering
showing any possible dates is too small, or not sharp enough, to be legible.

The second car is a horizontal seam steel car with a door like the Milwaukee
cars have, with two latch bars. It also has staggered vertical rivet rows
among its 10 panels. Diagonal steel roof, steel hatches. Build date is
probably 11/56. The sides of this car, numbered 3611, are on the orange side
of light orange, a different shade of light orange, perhaps halfway between
orange and light orange. Picture source is again Yungkurth's slide.

The third car, 3578, appears at the left in a Bob's Photo picture
principally devoted to New Haven switcher 0935, taken in Boston on 16 Sep
64. It is also a horizontal seam steel car. The color is even closer to
Floquil light orange, coming from the orange direction, only subtly
different from that of 3611.

On page 49 of Gene Green's wonderful color guide book, there are three more
color pictures of Kingan reefers. They are 3045 and 3894, both wood, and
both about halfway between reefer yellow and light orange, and steel reefer
3547,the color of which pretty much duplicates that of 3045, only perhaps
slightly toward the yellow side.Looking more carefully, I see that 3894 is
more orangy than 3045.

I would say that you could start with Floquil light orange, tinting it
with either yellow or regular orange, in either direction with one or the
other.

Thanks for the chance to share data. JP Barger







[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Corry Pa. help

Brian Carlson
 

There was someone who contacted me offering assistance with my research of Corry Pa. Unfortunately my hard drive crashed this past Monday and email wasn't backed up. If you are on this list be please contact me again off list at prrk41361@.... I believe we met at Naperville.

Brian carlson


Re: Everything has a name

Bruce Smith
 

Bill,

If it looks a little more complicated than a simple pin, it might be
what I know as a "cleco", which is a temporary fastener used in holes
intended to be riveted to allow the parts to be completely and correctly
aligned. The "celcos" are removed one by one and replaced by rivets.
One example of their use is in homebuilt aircraft manufacture.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> 12/23/10 4:34 PM >>>
I have a photo of a diagonal panel roof being assembled. To align the
rivet holes the assembly crew is using a tool. There must be a name
for such a tool. Does anyone know? Could it be a simple as an
"alignment tool?"

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...







------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


ORER help

Brian Carlson
 

Some of you offered to help with some ORER research I was going to do on NKP boxcars. Some had sent scans of ORERs attached to email. Well last Monday I had a fatal HD crash and while data was backed up my email wasn't and all the attached ORERs were lost.
I am expecting some ORER information next week, so I have many dates covered if you offered to help last time, I thank you, and could you please contact me again off list at prrk41361@.... Thanks.

Brian carlson


Re: Everything has a name

Greg Martin
 

Wait, Wait, I have seen one of these and it does have a name and we have
all heard it before... It's called a thingie... We've all heard the guys
saying it in the shop,"hand me that thingie right there, Thanks".

Greg Martin


, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:


I have a photo of a diagonal panel roof being assembled. To align the
rivet holes the assembly crew is using a tool. There must be a name
for such a tool. Does anyone know? Could it be a simple as an
"alignment tool?"

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...


Re: Everything has a name

Jeff Sankus
 

Bill;
You are close...it's an alignment pin. A long tapered steel bar.
Jeff

On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 5:33 PM, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...>wrote:



I have a photo of a diagonal panel roof being assembled. To align the
rivet holes the assembly crew is using a tool. There must be a name
for such a tool. Does anyone know? Could it be a simple as an
"alignment tool?"

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@... <fgexbill%40tampabay.rr.com>





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: New resin kit for Hart Ballast cars...

Jack Burgess <jack@...>
 

<Did anyone send a private email to the second of the two addies that
<Jack provided for contact info? I would like to order two but did not
<get a reply yet.
<
<Victor Baird
<Fort Wayne, Indiana

I sent Doug Junda an e-mail message yesterday but didn't get a response
either so, an hour or so ago, I e-mailed one of his partners, Bill Meredith
(Bill is the pattern maker) and he just e-mailed me back...he spent the last
week with Doug attending Doug's wedding! I didn't know that or would have
held off announcing the new kit! Give Doug time to get back from a honeymoon
and you should get responses regarding these new kits...


Jack Burgess
www.yosemitevalleyrr.com


Re: Everything has a name

dennyanspach <danspach@...>
 

"Drift pins", as commonly used in wood boatbuilding are not tapered, but are long straight rods -silicon bronze or galvanized steel-, with or without heads, that are driven in to predrilled holes primarily to keep two pieces of wood strongly aligned. Of course, when the holes are long and tight enough, the drift pins also can and do very much function as very big nails.

I also use "drift pins" -commonly, the clipped-off ends of wire grabs, etc.- in predrilled holes all the time in modeling to secure small parts in place and in alignment while cement dries (or doesn't).

Denny

Denny S. Anspach MD
Sacramento


Re: Everything has a name

kenneth chapin <kenneth_chapin@...>
 

Hi;
   yes, it is called a drift punch,they are also used to line up bolt holes,saves a lot of hard work.    ken chapin

--- On Thu, 12/23/10, Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

From: Bill Welch <fgexbill@...>
Subject: [STMFC] Everything has a name
To: STMFC@...
Date: Thursday, December 23, 2010, 5:33 PM







 









I have a photo of a diagonal panel roof being assembled. To align the

rivet holes the assembly crew is using a tool. There must be a name

for such a tool. Does anyone know? Could it be a simple as an

"alignment tool?"



Bill Welch

2225 Nursery Road; #20-104

Clearwater, FL 33764-7622

727.470.9930

fgexbill@...





























[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Everything has a name

Larry Sexton
 

Bill,



It is most probably one of two tools. Its either a tapered alignment bar
about 18” long with a 6-8” taper for 1/8-7/8” holes or if the holes are
larger it may be a tapered spud wrench, but those are usually used for holes
over ¾” and heavy structural steel. I have seen the spud wrenches being used
in photos of car repair shops. If I remember, the roof sheets are about
.100” thick which is about where the alignment bars tend to snap if the
sheets aren’t close enough together when being aligned.



Larry Sexton



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Bill
Welch
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 5:33 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Everything has a name





I have a photo of a diagonal panel roof being assembled. To align the
rivet holes the assembly crew is using a tool. There must be a name
for such a tool. Does anyone know? Could it be a simple as an
"alignment tool?"

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@... <mailto:fgexbill%40tampabay.rr.com>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Everything has a name

Bill Welch
 

I was right, everything has a name. Thank you Dennis and Brian!

Bill

--- In STMFC@..., "Brian Carlson" <prrk41361@...> wrote:

In structural engineering we commonly use a "Drift Pin" when alligning
connections. I am not sure if the term translated to other fields.



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Bill
Welch
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 5:33 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Everything has a name





I have a photo of a diagonal panel roof being assembled. To align the
rivet holes the assembly crew is using a tool. There must be a name
for such a tool. Does anyone know? Could it be a simple as an
"alignment tool?"

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@... <mailto:fgexbill%40tampabay.rr.com>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Everything has a name

Brian Carlson
 

In structural engineering we commonly use a "Drift Pin" when alligning
connections. I am not sure if the term translated to other fields.



From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Bill
Welch
Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 5:33 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Everything has a name





I have a photo of a diagonal panel roof being assembled. To align the
rivet holes the assembly crew is using a tool. There must be a name
for such a tool. Does anyone know? Could it be a simple as an
"alignment tool?"

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@... <mailto:fgexbill%40tampabay.rr.com>


Re: Everything has a name

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

I have a photo of a diagonal panel roof being assembled. To align the
rivet holes the assembly crew is using a tool. There must be a name
for such a tool. Does anyone know? Could it be a simple as an
"alignment tool?"
If they are driving it through one of the holes, it's a tapered pin called a "drift pin".

Dennis

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