Date   

Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?

Charles Hladik
 

That happens when you keep sniffing that Canadian air, brrrrrrrrr
Chuck Hladik

In a message dated 1/24/2011 9:19:48 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
bschneider424@... writes:




Speel Chek is a horible thig..

That should have been “graciously”, not “gratuitously”... I think... ;.)

Bill

From: Bill Schneider
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 9:04 PM
To: _STMFC@... (mailto:STMFC@...)
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval
ends?

Oh great, its out now.... Oh well....

Regarding the “In your dreams...”, I would prefer to insert my own
Richard quote here...

Some... well.. several... years ago I was having a particularly hard time
having things... work out to my satisfaction. I confided on the phone one
afternoon to Richard that I would soon be writing a book entitled “So... You
Want To Be A Model Railroad Manufacturer”, to which he gratuitously (?!)
replied that he would be happy to write the forward, entitled “I told you
so...”

Bill Schneider

From: Aley, Jeff A
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 8:45 PM
To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval
ends?

Aha! So Rapido is finally going to do the UP’s slab-sided hoppers! Mike
Brock and I are glad, very glad.

[Insert Richard Hendrickson’s oft-repeated, “In your dreams” here.]

-Jeff

From: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com
[mailto:mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Bill Schneider
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 2:44 PM
To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval
ends?

Ah, but an “unglamourous coal hopper” might be... just not this one.

Bill Schneider

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Re: Sunshine's new GATC tank car

Jim Hayes
 

Sunshine usually only brings the newer stuff but surprised us at Naperville
by having several boxes of old kits.

Sunshine will be at 3 events in Feb. and March.

Timonium, Feb. 5/6. Sunshine hopes to have the new tank car there in 8
schemes, some of them very colorful. This kit is supposed to be easier to
assemble than past tank car kits and have better instructions.

And 2 events in California, Winterrail, March 12th and the ATSF Convention
at the San Bernardino train station on March 19th. There may be 2 new ATSF
models at San Bernardino.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


On Mon, Jan 24, 2011 at 11:12 AM, culturalinfidel9 <
djmiller@...> wrote:



For those who have been to the Timonium show before, does Sunshine usually
bring a stock of older kits with them or do they only sell new and very
recent kits?

Thanks,
Dan Miller


--- In STMFC@... <STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, "pullmanboss"
<tcmadden@...> wrote:

Frank Hodina just sent me a photo of the pilot model of the new Sunshine
Models GATC tank car:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/GATC%20Tank.jpg

It will be introduced at Timonium.

Tom Madden


Re: Paint

Andy Harman
 

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 12:31:49 -0500, mike brock wrote
I will add this. As Badger's Greg Konrad said about 15 yrs ago, IF you paint
in Florida you are going to pump out some water.
I remember being berated at the time for not "learning how" to use flex paints and that
I needed a tutorial from Konrad. I watched him painting at one of the shows. He was
blowing oxide red all over an O scale boxcar like nobody's business, using the Bic
disposable airbrush. I didn't see anything special about his technique. Oxides in his
paint line usually worked well, basically if you have a good bottle of paint, even with
sloppy technique things will turn out ok.

On the other hand, I saw up close some of the sample locos that GK had been using in his
ads for his paint. When I actually saw the quality of the finish - one of them had
paint peeling off the walkways, the other looked like it had been blasted with Krylon
from a fire hose, rolled in salt, and blasted again, the idea of "learning" anything
quickly vanished.

I've been airbrushing for - let's see - about 38 years. I don't plan to ever try to
teach anybody anything about it. But I think it's pretty insulting to be told to "learn
how" from someone whose paint jobs I wouldn't even try to strip, much less emulate.

And there are plenty of folks who get outstanding results from acrylics. Their methods
generally contradict each other, as my methods contradict others. That's why I don't
ever do painting clinics.

Andy


Re: Sunshine's new GATC tank car

culturalinfidel9 <djmiller@...>
 

For those who have been to the Timonium show before, does Sunshine usually bring a stock of older kits with them or do they only sell new and very recent kits?

Thanks,
Dan Miller

--- In STMFC@..., "pullmanboss" <tcmadden@...> wrote:

Frank Hodina just sent me a photo of the pilot model of the new Sunshine Models GATC tank car:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/GATC%20Tank.jpg

It will be introduced at Timonium.

Tom Madden


Re: Paint

Andy Harman
 

On Mon, 24 Jan 2011 10:00:38 -0800, Richard Hendrickson wrote
Andy, that's hardly an issue for those of us (most of us, I'll bet)
whose local hobby shops were never very good and are now non-
existent.
My LHS does not stock Scalecoat, but they will order it for me and it gets there quickly
without having to pay shipping. The only problem with that is I have to actually plan
ahead and know what I want instead of impulse buying paint. I do miss being able to
browse such things though.

Andy


Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Garth Groff wrote:
Indeed, I did intend to say "gondola". And I reread this post twice for accuracy. I hope you all will forgive me, as I suffer from a mild dyslexia . . .
No apology necessary, Garth, whatever the source of the slip. I too wish there was a 46-foot GS gon out there, but am making do with 40-foot ones for D&RGW in the interim.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Tony and friends,

Indeed, I did intend to say "gondola". And I reread this post twice for accuracy. I hope you all will forgive me, as I suffer from a mild dyslexia (and I've been a professional editor!; how I survived, I don't know).

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

On 1/24/2011 1:35 PM, Anthony Thompson wrote:
Garth Groff wrote:
For the same reason were are not likely to see my two favorites, the
early 1950s-era GATC 46' GS hoppers used by the D&RGW (lots!) and WP
(not so many) . . .
Surely you mean GS gondolas, Garth??

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links



Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?

Bill Schneider
 

Roofs, running boards, etc are easy. Internal hopper detail is not, ESPECIALLY on a Seeley! ;>)

Bill

From: A. Premo
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 1:34 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?


Yah but,Bill a hopper doesn't need a roof,a running board (roof walk) laterals etc.Just think of the savings..Not that I would opt for an alternate standard I have yet to see a hopper that I didn't like ,even some of those less than handsome NYO&W and D&H Seleys.There are many other hoppers that have yet to see the light of day like the nine panel B&O nee CRP and a multitude of quad hoppers.While I am thankful for the fruits of the Horn of Plenty there is a market for more and different hoppers.'nuff said.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Schneider
To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?

OK, going to stick my neck in here...

The “Alternate Standard Hopper” has been suggested and discussed to me numerous time by several people in at least two different business lives. From a manufacturer’s point of view (well, this one’s at least), there are several issues with the car that make this project problematic.

1) Modelers that would appreciate the differences between the “Alternate” and “”Standard” designs also tend to demand high levels of detail and correct design variations, which equates to high R&D, development, production and (therefore) retail costs. The Kadee car priced at $42.95 is pretty much the cost level where any well detailed hopper of this type will end up these days at current costs, here or abroad. Even if they all (on average) bought one or two that would not be enough to pay for the project.

2) Modelers who do not appreciate the differences between the “Alternate” and “”Standard” designs will look at them and ask what the heck makes them worth that much more money than the cars that they already own on droves from Atlas, Accurail and “A-Thearn “and will not buy them because they “cost too much.”
3) The fact that Kadee HAS done the “standard” version and already therefore has many parts usable for the “alternate” cars would hang like a lead weight over the heads of any manufacturer tooling up from scratch. Kadee could (it would seem) have the “alternate” car into production before if they decided to long before anybody who had to start from scratch. Doesn’t make this a great sounding project to sink limited capital into.
Finally, to Tim’s numbers from Frank at Intermountain... Even Frank said “those days are long gone” when giving his talk at Cocoa. Today’s market is vastly different than it was just a few years ago. At one point not too long ago, 50,000 units for a freight car project was an achievable target (don’t ask how I know). Now its likely about 1/10 of that.
As for the Athearn box car, yeh they sold a lot, but surely that’s not the target level of accuracy for this project, is it Tim? )

Swing away....

Bill Schneider
Rapido Trains
From: Tim O'Connor
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 1:10 AM
To: mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?

Dave,

I'm pretty sure the IRC Canadian cylindrical and the 40' PFE ice reefer
are pushing pretty close to those production numbers.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that Athearn has sold 2 million
or more of its 40 ft box cars in the last 50 years.

I'm not saying that a new AAR hopper would sell like that. But Kadee made
a model of an unusual prototype, built in relatively small numbers if you
make a numerical comparison with the giant fleets of the major carriers.
Some of us were dumbfounded (well, I was) that Kadee did that car and not
an alternate standard car. (By our definition based on appearances, not the
AAR's definition based on underframe castings.)

Tim O'Connor

Note that at Cocoa Beach, Intermountain presented production run numbers, and
IIRC none reached the 250k unit example you give.


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Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Garth Groff wrote:
For the same reason were are not likely to see my two favorites, the early 1950s-era GATC 46' GS hoppers used by the D&RGW (lots!) and WP (not so many) . . .
Surely you mean GS gondolas, Garth??

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?

A. Premo <armprem2@...>
 

Yah but,Bill a hopper doesn't need a roof,a running board (roof walk) laterals etc.Just think of the savings..Not that I would opt for an alternate standard I have yet to see a hopper that I didn't like ,even some of those less than handsome NYO&W and D&H Seleys.There are many other hoppers that have yet to see the light of day like the nine panel B&O nee CRP and a multitude of quad hoppers.While I am thankful for the fruits of the Horn of Plenty there is a market for more and different hoppers.'nuff said.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Schneider
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?



OK, going to stick my neck in here...

The “Alternate Standard Hopper” has been suggested and discussed to me numerous time by several people in at least two different business lives. From a manufacturer’s point of view (well, this one’s at least), there are several issues with the car that make this project problematic.

1) Modelers that would appreciate the differences between the “Alternate” and “”Standard” designs also tend to demand high levels of detail and correct design variations, which equates to high R&D, development, production and (therefore) retail costs. The Kadee car priced at $42.95 is pretty much the cost level where any well detailed hopper of this type will end up these days at current costs, here or abroad. Even if they all (on average) bought one or two that would not be enough to pay for the project.

2) Modelers who do not appreciate the differences between the “Alternate” and “”Standard” designs will look at them and ask what the heck makes them worth that much more money than the cars that they already own on droves from Atlas, Accurail and “A-Thearn “and will not buy them because they “cost too much.”
3) The fact that Kadee HAS done the “standard” version and already therefore has many parts usable for the “alternate” cars would hang like a lead weight over the heads of any manufacturer tooling up from scratch. Kadee could (it would seem) have the “alternate” car into production before if they decided to long before anybody who had to start from scratch. Doesn’t make this a great sounding project to sink limited capital into.
Finally, to Tim’s numbers from Frank at Intermountain... Even Frank said “those days are long gone” when giving his talk at Cocoa. Today’s market is vastly different than it was just a few years ago. At one point not too long ago, 50,000 units for a freight car project was an achievable target (don’t ask how I know). Now its likely about 1/10 of that.
As for the Athearn box car, yeh they sold a lot, but surely that’s not the target level of accuracy for this project, is it Tim? )

Swing away....

Bill Schneider
Rapido Trains
From: Tim O'Connor
Sent: Monday, January 24, 2011 1:10 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?

Dave,

I'm pretty sure the IRC Canadian cylindrical and the 40' PFE ice reefer
are pushing pretty close to those production numbers.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to hear that Athearn has sold 2 million
or more of its 40 ft box cars in the last 50 years.

I'm not saying that a new AAR hopper would sell like that. But Kadee made
a model of an unusual prototype, built in relatively small numbers if you
make a numerical comparison with the giant fleets of the major carriers.
Some of us were dumbfounded (well, I was) that Kadee did that car and not
an alternate standard car. (By our definition based on appearances, not the
AAR's definition based on underframe castings.)

Tim O'Connor

>> Note that at Cocoa Beach, Intermountain presented production run numbers, and
>> IIRC none reached the 250k unit example you give.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/11/10 06:32:00
____________________________________________________________
Obama Urges Homeowners to Refinance
If you owe under $729k you probably qualify for Obama's Refi Program
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Tooling (was Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?)

Aley, Jeff A
 

I have a few questions about making new models.

Let us assume that the model will be sold RTR (no kits).
Let us also assume that the model will be a hopper car (as discussed) with "moderate" sales (I don't know how many "moderate" is, but let's say 20,000 units).

Which would be cheaper:
1: A full multi-slide injection molded plastic model, assembled with wire grabs, etc.

2: An injection-molded "flat-kit" model, assembled, and with wire grabs, etc. (Lower tooling cost, higher assembly cost).

3: A resin model, assembled, and with wire grabs, etc. (Extremely low tooling cost, higher molding cost (?), much (?) higher assembly cost).

We frequently say, "it can't be done except in resin", and I always think, "so do it in resin and have it assembled. Who cares what the car is made out of if it's RTR?"

Of course the costs are different depending on how much work is done in the U.S.A., and how much is done overseas.

Regards,

-Jeff


From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Dave Evans
Sent: Sunday, January 23, 2011 5:24 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?



- In STMFC@...<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com>, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:

Dave

Why do people think that a model at an AAR alt std hopper correct for
C&O, ERIE, NP, and others would sell only 5,000 cars???

Let me tell you something -- 15 yrs or so ago a small manufacturer made
a model of a 1980-built PC&F insulated box car -- the 62' "Coors beer" car.
This car sold 250,000 copies! Mostly as kits! It's still available today,
as the tooling was sold to another owner.

Think about that -- perhaps 15%-20% of model railroaders model post-1980
HO scale. Roughly double that percentage model the "transition era" in HO.
Why on earth would a freight car that existed in large numbers, that ran
all over the east and midwest from the 1930's to the 1960's, that appeals
to a large segment of model railroaders, sell only 5,000 models??

Tim O'Connor

Tim,

Intermountain presented some numbers for the number of cars built per tooling set - I do not think I saw any over 200k, but I could be wrong. And the biggest seller was a post-transition car (long after this list). One body run was only 13k - in today's market I suspect that would be a loser financially.

It would not surprise me if the beer cars sold in large numbers because of the paint schemes, not because they were a dominant prototype.

Such is the curse of the prototype modeler who is trying to build a "balanced" fleet. (even worse for us WWII modelers).

I have no way to know what the sales volume would be for an accurate AAR standard twin offset hopper. I do not know how much market demand is left for another twin hopper, with probably 98% of model railroaders being unable to tell difference between this car and the current offset twin RTR offerings from Atlas and Kadee and the new Accurail kit offering. I suspect that over 90% of the HO model railroaders would think that the current offset twin offerings are adequate, they have bought all they need, and would likely not pay more than what Atlas, Kadee, or Accurail currently charge.

I wish this wasn't true, but I expect that is exactly what the established manufacturers believe.

My apologies for the 5k number - that referred to my quest, the PRR Glca - I just do not think the market is that big for them. Most modelers would not know the difference between the PRR Glca and Gla, and would not care even though the cars are obviously different. Being a car quickly scrapped after WWII makes the Glca market even smaller (although it is available in Resin).

From what I heard in Cocoa Beach, tooling costs for a 50k run of RTR hoppers would be in the $2 per car range - if you think such a market exists, then it looks like new business models are evolving for car manufacture that might be able to deliver such cars in two years if 100 modelers were willing to plunk down $1,000 each as a down payment before tooling is even cut, and which could probably be used to pay for 25 to 30 cars once sales are confirmed. If sales reach 100k cars, then each investor may get a $1000 return on their original investment - the cars he rec'd just became free. Willing to gamble?

Back to my original question - Not having built one yet, I was curious if the time and skill level required to build the RailShops H30 was significantly less than a resin hopper, and if it is, could their combination of flat styrene parts and brass etched end structures be a viable method to create a wide range of currently unavailable hoppers, and would they be easy enough to build at home in assembly line mode such that building small fleets may be viable?

If modelers think this is viable, then from what I heard the tooling costs would be significantly less than a RTR model (as much as a factor of 10 lower), resulting in either lowering the unit costs, or supporting much smaller production runs (would likely only sell in kit form).

I'm just trying to see if there is a new process and business model that could break through the sticker shock price of tooling for a new RTR car when no one can be certain just how many will sell.

If this would work, it might support a LOT of new cars to be sold in kit form even if the runs were not of the magnitude of most RTR sales.

Still looking for input, Thanks,
Dave Evans


Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?

pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

Bruce Smith wrote:

No single road cars? HUH? So tell me, how many folks model
DM&IR? Yet Walther has offered a DM&IR caboose in plastic (as
well as PRR, UP and others...) and Bowser must have sold
millions of shake-the-box H21As and a whole bunch of GLAs...
Apples and oranges, Bruce. Those models, like the Bachmann Pullman, are ones the _manufacturer_ decided to do, and I suspect those decisions were informed by internal arguments (that's a neat car; the market for Pennsy models is huge; no one has done anything like that before). Did consultants get involved? Probably, but having a manufacturer come to you for advice and assistance is not the same as you going to the manufacturer to lobby for a particular project.

I do not buy Tom's argument about one road
cars not selling enough copies.
That wasn't my argument. InterMountain's Santa Fe reefer sold very well, and they didn't have to resort to foobie paint schemes. They _have_ had poor experiences with road-specific models for which they could not justify colorful alternative paint schemes.

Tom Madden


Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?

proto48er
 

Al -

I tried to post photos of the models in question in a file here called "AAR Standard Twin Hoppers" but nothing is in the file yet! Don't know whether I did it incorrectly, or the moderator has not approved it yet??

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., water.kresse@... wrote:



Can we somehow use some photos or drawings  vs. subjective descriptions.  Are we talking about the end side-panel transition folds?



Al Kresse


Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?

Garth G. Groff <ggg9y@...>
 

Richard and friends,

Richard is absolutely about the UTLX X-3 tank. We are never likely to see this car from a reputable manufacturer in anything but resin because of the limited number of accurate models that could be sold. For the same reason were are not likely to see my two favorites, the early 1950s-era GATC 46' GS hoppers used by the D&RGW (lots!) and WP (not so many), or the AC&F 10K high walkway tank cars (more because of the complexity and early era here, since they had lots of paint schemes). I have lobbied several manufacturers and supplied data for these cars over the years, even in resin, and had no success.

Of course, what Richard didn't say is that some manufacturers who don't care that much about paint and lettering accuracy might give us an accurate car with many inaccurate paint schemes, the otherwise excellent Red Caboose welded tank car being an example. If someone like Intermountain were to do this with any of our rare favorites, we'd all gnash our teeth, moan a bit, and gladly break out the paint stripper. The problem is that we are more likely to get such cars from manufacturers who are as sloppy about modeling accuracy as their paint schemes, such as the truly dreadful Trix 6K tank car. (Sigh!)

Kind regards,


Garth Groff

On 1/24/2011 12:50 PM, Richard Hendrickson wrote (in part):


As for hopper cars being mostly drab, in contrast to reefers, of
course that's a factor. One car that steam-era modelers seriously
need, as its prototype existed by the many thousands and went
everywhere in North America, is the Union Tank Line X-3 tank car.
I've talked about this with just about every major manufacturer of
styrene models at one time or another, and they all say the same
thing. No matter how many prototype cars there were, the fact that
they were almost all painted dull black with only reporting marks,
numbers, and data means there is no chance they would sell well
enough to amortize the tooling. All the talk on the STMFC list about
AAR Alternate Standard hopper cars (whatever that term is understood
to mean) amounts to preaching to the converted. The great mass of
modelers neither know nor care about the differences between those
cars and other hoppers already on the market. Fortunately, we have
several members on the list who are manufacturers or who regularly
serve as consultants to manufacturers and they periodically yank us
back to reality. (Thanks, Dennis, Bill, Tom, Elden, et. al.)

I'll say again what I often say when I hear these claims that model
such-and-such would sell in vast numbers. If you believe that, put
up your own money to develop and tool the model and you'll find a
manufacturer who will do it for you. Then it's your $$$ at risk, not
theirs. But don't be surprised if you lose your shirt big time.

Richard Hendrickson


RES: Re: Paint

Marcelo Lordeiro <mrcustom@...>
 

Mike,



I sent one message to your private mail regarding the cab of your favorite
freight engine.If you have a chance to reply .......



My best



Marcelo Lordeiro



_____

De: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] Em nome de mike
brock
Enviada em: segunda-feira, 24 de janeiro de 2011 15:32
Para: STMFC@...
Assunto: Re: [STMFC] Re: Paint





Quite obviously paint choice is about as personal as...uh...one's favorite
steam engine. Of course, there is little doubt there, I mean, everyone
agrees that the UP FEF-3 4-8-4 is the most handsome and powerful passenger
engine...right?

Actually, I agree with just about everything Bruce Smith said. I've used
every paint known to the hobby and now I use only Polyscale. I guess once
you learn how...

I will add this. As Badger's Greg Konrad said about 15 yrs ago, IF you paint

in Florida you are going to pump out some water. Spary booth or not. I have
3 water traps and I will pump out some water. Try doing that with Scale Coat

or Floquil. Do it with Polyscale and you just keep going. One more thing. As

I told Armand, Polyscale is the most forgiving paint I have ever used.

The value of the filter is high, I thin with 71% alcohol, I place the gun in

water if I stop for more than 5 seconds, and I only use new, fresh paint.
Old bottles are for hand weathering.

Now, as to the best frt engine, Big Boy of course...

Mike Brock...be nice...


Re: Paint

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 24, 2011, at 8:54 AM, Andy Harman wrote:

On Sun, 23 Jan 2011 23:13:58 -0500, Schuyler Larrabee wrote
Scalecoat II? Or the real stuff?
Both. I prefer Scalecoat II, but some colors are just not
available - although they may
actually be out there if you special order. Few hobby shops stock
a full rack of
Scalecoat anymore....
Andy, that's hardly an issue for those of us (most of us, I'll bet)
whose local hobby shops were never very good and are now non-
existent. Get on the internet and find a large dealer who has a full
stock, or order direct from the manufacturer. I have to do that
regardless of what paint I use, as the nearest hobby shops with
decent stock are 5 hours away, so I might as well use the paint I
like best.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: AAR Standard twin offset side hopper with oval ends?

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Jan 24, 2011, at 6:52 AM, A. Premo wrote:

Is this a regional issue?
and, in another post,

I personally believe, and may be wrong, that there are more hoppers,
albeit less colorful, than reefers in eastern trains during the steam
and transition eras. Maybe the color is also a factor.

Armand, it IS a regional issue. The further west you went during the
steam era, the fewer hopper cars you saw. I have six or seven models
of them, and - since I model the Los Angeles area ca. 1947 - that's
about four or five more than I should have (I can, of course, rotate
them on and off my diorama so that there are only one or two at a
time). I understand why eastern modelers get all worked up about
this, but I usually put e-mail messages on the subject in the trash
without reading them because personally, as Rhett Bulter famously
exclaimed to Scarlett O'hara, I don't give a damn.

As for hopper cars being mostly drab, in contrast to reefers, of
course that's a factor. One car that steam-era modelers seriously
need, as its prototype existed by the many thousands and went
everywhere in North America, is the Union Tank Line X-3 tank car.
I've talked about this with just about every major manufacturer of
styrene models at one time or another, and they all say the same
thing. No matter how many prototype cars there were, the fact that
they were almost all painted dull black with only reporting marks,
numbers, and data means there is no chance they would sell well
enough to amortize the tooling. All the talk on the STMFC list about
AAR Alternate Standard hopper cars (whatever that term is understood
to mean) amounts to preaching to the converted. The great mass of
modelers neither know nor care about the differences between those
cars and other hoppers already on the market. Fortunately, we have
several members on the list who are manufacturers or who regularly
serve as consultants to manufacturers and they periodically yank us
back to reality. (Thanks, Dennis, Bill, Tom, Elden, et. al.)

I'll say again what I often say when I hear these claims that model
such-and-such would sell in vast numbers. If you believe that, put
up your own money to develop and tool the model and you'll find a
manufacturer who will do it for you. Then it's your $$$ at risk, not
theirs. But don't be surprised if you lose your shirt big time.

Richard Hendrickson


No Open House

James F. Brewer <jfbrewer@...>
 

My apologies for the cross postings; I will NOT have an open house this year in conjunction with the Timonium show.

Jim Brewer
Glenwood MD


Sunshine's new GATC tank car

pullmanboss <tcmadden@...>
 

Frank Hodina just sent me a photo of the pilot model of the new Sunshine Models GATC tank car:

http://www.pullmanproject.com/GATC%20Tank.jpg

It will be introduced at Timonium.

Tom Madden


Re: Paint

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Quite obviously paint choice is about as personal as...uh...one's favorite steam engine. Of course, there is little doubt there, I mean, everyone agrees that the UP FEF-3 4-8-4 is the most handsome and powerful passenger engine...right?

Actually, I agree with just about everything Bruce Smith said. I've used every paint known to the hobby and now I use only Polyscale. I guess once you learn how...

I will add this. As Badger's Greg Konrad said about 15 yrs ago, IF you paint in Florida you are going to pump out some water. Spary booth or not. I have 3 water traps and I will pump out some water. Try doing that with Scale Coat or Floquil. Do it with Polyscale and you just keep going. One more thing. As I told Armand, Polyscale is the most forgiving paint I have ever used.

The value of the filter is high, I thin with 71% alcohol, I place the gun in water if I stop for more than 5 seconds, and I only use new, fresh paint. Old bottles are for hand weathering.

Now, as to the best frt engine, Big Boy of course...

Mike Brock...be nice...

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