Date   

Re: Freight Car Statistics

SUVCWORR@...
 

Armand,

I think that is a misconception based on a regional bias. I have compiled the data for 1953. While tank cars only compose 0.6% of the cars owned by railroads, they also compose 55.4% of the privately owned rail cars. Overall tank cars accounted for 7.4% of all rail cars in 1953. There were 5 times as many tank cars as covered hoppers; nearly twice as many tank cars as flat cars; more than 3 times as many tanks as stock cars; more than 20 times as many tank cars as ventilated reefers; and nearly 25% more tank cars than reefers.

Rich Orr

-----Original Message-----
From: A. Premo <armprem2@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, Jan 26, 2011 11:09 am
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics


David,Going even further using this data one can come up with the % of each car

type in relation to the total car fleet of a given period (year).After perusing

the information tank cars represent a minuscule percentage of the total car

fleet.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----

From: Dave Evans

To: STMFC@...

Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 10:45 AM

Subject: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics







--- In STMFC@..., "Aley, Jeff A" <Jeff.A.Aley@...> wrote:

>

> Very interesting! Does anybody have easy access to the same data (in Railway

Age) for, say '52 or '53? The '47 data is a bit too close to The War for my use.

If someone can send me a scan, I'll be happy to do the typing.

>

> It is interesting to note that, for the '47 data, 59% of the box cars were

built between 1917 and 1931. To me, that implies that most of that 59% are

wood-sheathed.

>

> Regards,

>

> -Jeff

>

Jeff,



Several years ago I did an analysis of the '43 ORER (granted a little early

for your use) for all X cars (I combined XM, XA, and others - newbie mistake).

In '43 the ORER indicated wood or steal sheathed for nearly all roads. I came up

with 56% wood sheathed, 44% steel for the North American fleet. Note that CP and

CN were nearly 12% of that fleet, and they were a little over 90% wood sheathed.

If you remove PRR, NYC, and B&O from the NA count (the three biggest eastern

roads, which had transitioned heavily to steel sheathed cars) and CP and CN

(because people believe those cars did not wonder south that often), the

remaining roads were 63% wood sheathed and 37% steel - almost 2:1 wood sheathed.



Of the top 20 X car fleets in NA, only PRR, NYC, and B&O show a majority steel

sheathed fleet (and each by a large margin - combined the three roads were over

85% steel sheathed). SP and IC were about a 50-50 split. Most of the other top

20 road's wood cars outnumbered their steel cars by 2 to 1, so it wasn't just

the smaller, perhaps more resource constrained roads that lacked steel X cars.



It is also important to note that North American sub-40' cars (mostly 36'

cars) outnumbered 50 footers by over 2:1, and taking even CP and CN out of the

mix, US 36' cars still outnumbered 50' cars (70k vs. 45k). Southern had more 36'

cars (~13,650) than all but the largest 21 railroad's X-car fleets (C&O was

number 22, with ~12,700 X cars of all lengths and types). You can never have

enough Southern 36' XM cars if you model through WWII. For reasons that escape

me, that remains a resin only option.



Dave Evans













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Oh Boy

A. Premo <armprem2@...>
 

Gentlemen all,I did_ask for corrections in my original post and this
august group responded...soundly Sending the post resulted in an avalanche
of help.I have my !949 ORER and was fully aware of the car numbers.I had
been checking meat reefers.By not making myself clear I erred.Making an
incorrect assumption surely gets results.Thanks to all who responded.Armand
Premo

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IC "Chiseled Side" Offset Twins (was Re: Forgotten Accurail Great Northern 2 Bay Canton Hopper)

Eric Hansmann
 

The New York Central rostered fifty-ton offset twins in the mid-1920s that may have similarities to the IC hoppers in the color image Steve sent along. When were the IC cars built?

Here's some detail on NYC cars from Terry Link's site.

A drawing of a lot 479-H car from 1924.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/lot-479.jpg

An image of a similar Big Four car from lot 533-H, built in 1926.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/ccc&stl-88010.jpg

Cars with similar specs are noted in lot 534-H and 535-H, also in 1926.

Another image of a car from lot 539-H, also built in 1926.
http://www.canadasouthern.com/caso/images/nyc-454093.jpg

Possibly these can be bashed from an Athearn quad by cutting out a chunk of the center to make a twin then cleaning up the ends for finer detail. Just an off-the-cuff suggestion as I have not fully examined an Athearn quad in years.

Eric


Eric Hansmann
Chagrin Falls, Ohio
Plan now to attend RPM-East!
http://www.hansmanns.org/rpm_east/2011.htm

--- In STMFC@..., "Benjamin Hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:

Steve Lucas wrote:
"Though the Accurail models are very nicely done, I'm thinking more of an
accurate Illinois Central hopper car like the ones coloured in this photo--
http://media.photobucket.com/image/illinois%20central%20hopper%20car%20ghq/G
HQ_Micro_Armour/ZM1%20O-4/ZM2%20Illinois%20Central%20Decals/05-IC-hopper-det
ailspadina.jpg

If the link doesn't work, here's the article containing the photo, and
another of these cars, plus an IC folio drawing of the car-
http://www.ghqmodels.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3290

You mean the cars modeled in HO by these 75-series Sunshine kits:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun75.pdf


"That flat area behind the ladder and at the other end of the car near the
bulb angle is very distinctive. So far one is faced with bashing and/or
resin kits to get these cars."

Back in the 1980s, Dick Hosmer kitbashed one of these cars for the NEB&W by
cutting down an Athearn quad. This will give you the desired "chiseled"
offset profile, though the length might end up being a bit short.


"And I personally can use a few of these, as can many steam-era modellers.
They were found at many loco terminals loaded with loco coal. Those
modelling other roads than CN can chime in with their road's use of these
cars. I seem to recall that the NYC used loco coal shipped in IC hoppers?"

I hold zero IC hoppers in the Alburg data pulled from records in Armand
Premo's collection, though I haven't reviewed everything he has. Let me get
this straight - you're asking a manufacturer to invest in a hopper model
owned only by IC, KGB&W, and E&LS. Can you back up your assertions that
they were found at many locomotive terminals? It's certainly a signature
car of the IC, but unless you can prove there's going to be enough sales out
there, this suggestion is DOA.


Ben Hom


Red Ball B&O wagon top

ed_mines
 

--- In STMFC@..., Jedalberg@... wrote:
I built one of those, in about that time frame, or maybe a few years
earlier. Worst part was bending all of those lead side/roof sections around a
pencil. as I recall; and then, getting them all together--even. The Sunshine
B&O round roof boxcars were a snap after that---

I made a jig to bend the soft metal sections. Using the end as a template I pencil marked the curve on a scrap piece of lumber. Got one of the mechanics in the factory where I worked it on a do all saw (I wasn't allowed to use the saw).

The rivets on those sides were gigantic - maybe 2 scale inches +.

Ed Mines


Re: Freight Car Statistics

Tim O'Connor
 

Mike Brock wrote

Union Tank Car alone had 44,831 tank cars in 1953 ... these numbers probably
are similar for 1948...

I don't know about that Mike, tank car fleets began growing after WWII
and have grown ever since.

UTLX in 1955 -- 48,526
UTLX in 1959 -- 56,106

Some folks think we lack for 1920's and 1930's tank cars, but ask yourself
how many good models do we have to represent cars built 1950-1960? ZERO in
plastic or resin. A couple in brass.

Tim O'Connor


Re: Freight Car Statistics

A. Premo <armprem2@...>
 

You are absolutely correct Mike and I am aware that private companies owned the vast majority of tank cars.My remarks should be construed as to only RR owned tank cars in terms of the % of the national freight car fleet.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: mike brock
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 1:03 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics



Armand Premo writes:

> Elden,I am using the car totals as presented for 1947.If I have correctly
> read the information the national tank car total, as given ,was only some
> 8531 cars with which I am having some difficulty accepting.Please correct
> me if I am misreading those figures.

I'm a bit late into this thread and I may be missing something but, if I'm
reading it right, Armand's problem is that the 8531 total is for RR owned
tank cars. Union Tank Car alone had 44,831 tank cars in 1953. Shippers Car
Line had 11182 and Sinclair owned 4976. These numbers probably are similar
for 1948...

It should be noted that during WW2 solid trains of tank cars moved from the
southwest through Appalachia, rolling over billions of tons of coal which
was not very useful in oil derivative fuels used in tanks, ships and
aircraft.

Mike Brock






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Re: Freight Car Statistics (UNCLASSIFIED)

A. Premo <armprem2@...>
 

That is absolutely correct.Armand Premo

----- Original Message -----
From: Bruce Smith
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 12:47 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics (UNCLASSIFIED)



Armand,

I suspect that you are only seeing the railroad owned cars, not the
huge fleets owned by private owners such as the leasing companies.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

On Jan 26, 2011, at 11:30 AM, A. Premo wrote:

> Elden,I am using the car totals as presented for 1947.If I have
> correctly read the information the national tank car total, as
> given ,was only some 8531 cars with which I am having some
> difficulty accepting.Please correct me if I am misreading those
> figures.Armand Premo
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Gatwood, Elden SAW
> To: STMFC@...
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 11:59 AM
> Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics (UNCLASSIFIED)
>
>
>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
> And there were boatloads of tank cars around the major chemical
> producers and
> petro-chemical user areas, such as portions of Ohio,
> Pennsylvania, Louisiana,
> and such, and which also then differed from the more "common" oil-
> producer
> fleets. With all the small gasoline distributors, and later LPG
> wheelers in
> the mid-west and west, it would be hard to imagine a layout on
> which tank
> cars were not in evidence.
>
> Elden Gatwood
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On
> Behalf Of
> Richard Hendrickson
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 11:50 AM
> To: STMFC@...
> Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
>
> On Jan 26, 2011, at 8:09 AM, A. Premo wrote:
>
>> David,Going even further using this data one can come up with the
>> % of
>> each car type in relation to the total car fleet of a given period
>> (year).After perusing the information tank cars represent a minuscule
>> percentage of the total car fleet.Armand Premo
>
> Yes but, once again, Armand, one has to think in terms of the
> region being
> modeled. Tank cars were all over the place in the oil- producing
> and oil
> consuming regions of the southwest and far west, much less so
> where coal was
> the major industrial and heating fuel.
> In addition, western railroads like the SP and Santa Fe had
> substantial
> fleets of tank cars in mostly captive service hauling locomotive
> fuel.
>
> Richard Hendrickson
>
>
>
> Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
> Caveats: NONE
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
> Internal Virus Database is out of date.
> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
> Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date:
> 04/11/10 06:32:00
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Re: IC "Chiseled Side" Offset Twins

MDelvec952
 

I hold zero IC hoppers in the Alburg data pulled from records in Armand
Premo's collection, though I haven't reviewed everything he has. Let me get
this straight - you're asking a manufacturer to invest in a hopper model
owned only by IC, KGB&W, and E&LS. Can you back up your assertions that
they were found at many locomotive terminals? It's certainly a signature
car of the IC, but unless you can prove there's going to be enough sales out
there, this suggestion is DOA.

-----Original Message-----
From: Benjamin Hom <b.hom@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Wed, Jan 26, 2011 3:39 pm
Subject: [STMFC] IC "Chiseled Side" Offset Twins (was Re: Forgotten Accurail Great Northern 2 Bay Canton Hopper)




Count the DL&W has running a big fleet of these chiseled side cars in 2- and 3-pocket variations that lasted into the EL years with a few examples resold to short lines (Rutland was one). I'm at work and not near my reserch library, but other roads did run this type of car. I was suprised that Sunshine only offered the three road names. I ordered the KGBW car to examine more closely, and will order more once it arrives and I see more than what appears in the photos of the model.

I thought long and hard about chopping down the Athearn 4-pocket car and casting replacement sides to graft into existing models. It's a big job. A manufacturer tooling up for one of these to please the modelers of the above roads - not likely. To offer these as an alternative to the one-and-only offset hopper available from four manufacturers -- still not likely as there were more plentiful designs out and about.

....Mike Del Vecchio


IC "Chiselled Side" Offset Twins

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Ben--

I cannot back up my assertion with info that I have in front of me. But perhaps those on this list modelling other roads can?

If the IC only moved coal to CN/GTW for loco use, there'd be no justification for the sizeable fleet of hoppers that the IC had. And no justification for an accurate model of them. With this premise, you'd be correct as to an accurate HO model having zero possbility of production with this alone in mind.

Other roads would have seen these cars as well--which is why I ask modellers of those roads to chime in. Seems to me that more roads than CN/GTW got loco coal from mines served by the IC. As for Alburg, VT, this location would have been a little far afield for IC hoppers to travel when loco coal was available from mines in the Appalachians.

And these IC's two- and three-bay hoppers were far more numerous than the GN's Canton-built hoppers.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "Benjamin Hom" <b.hom@...> wrote:

Steve Lucas wrote:
"Though the Accurail models are very nicely done, I'm thinking more of an
accurate Illinois Central hopper car like the ones coloured in this photo--
http://media.photobucket.com/image/illinois%20central%20hopper%20car%20ghq/G
HQ_Micro_Armour/ZM1%20O-4/ZM2%20Illinois%20Central%20Decals/05-IC-hopper-det
ailspadina.jpg

If the link doesn't work, here's the article containing the photo, and
another of these cars, plus an IC folio drawing of the car-
http://www.ghqmodels.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3290

You mean the cars modeled in HO by these 75-series Sunshine kits:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun75.pdf


"That flat area behind the ladder and at the other end of the car near the
bulb angle is very distinctive. So far one is faced with bashing and/or
resin kits to get these cars."

Back in the 1980s, Dick Hosmer kitbashed one of these cars for the NEB&W by
cutting down an Athearn quad. This will give you the desired "chiseled"
offset profile, though the length might end up being a bit short.


"And I personally can use a few of these, as can many steam-era modellers.
They were found at many loco terminals loaded with loco coal. Those
modelling other roads than CN can chime in with their road's use of these
cars. I seem to recall that the NYC used loco coal shipped in IC hoppers?"

I hold zero IC hoppers in the Alburg data pulled from records in Armand
Premo's collection, though I haven't reviewed everything he has. Let me get
this straight - you're asking a manufacturer to invest in a hopper model
owned only by IC, KGB&W, and E&LS. Can you back up your assertions that
they were found at many locomotive terminals? It's certainly a signature
car of the IC, but unless you can prove there's going to be enough sales out
there, this suggestion is DOA.


Ben Hom


Re: Express reefer questions

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Robert Oom wrote:
I always wondered if there was a problem with film in recording these cars since the lettering on boxcars in the background of the same photo can be distinguished even though it's not at all legible. I've noticed in other steam era photos that reporting marks and/or roadnames are not visible on express reefers.
It could be a film problem, but there's another possibility. The metallic lettering, often gold leaf on earlier passenger equipment, was not very visible unless it caught the light enough to reflect. Otherwise, the "hue" of the gold was not that different from the dark car paint.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


IC "Chiseled Side" Offset Twins (was Re: Forgotten Accurail Great Northern 2 Bay Canton Hopper)

Benjamin Hom
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
"Though the Accurail models are very nicely done, I'm thinking more of an
accurate Illinois Central hopper car like the ones coloured in this photo--
http://media.photobucket.com/image/illinois%20central%20hopper%20car%20ghq/G
HQ_Micro_Armour/ZM1%20O-4/ZM2%20Illinois%20Central%20Decals/05-IC-hopper-det
ailspadina.jpg

If the link doesn't work, here's the article containing the photo, and
another of these cars, plus an IC folio drawing of the car-
http://www.ghqmodels.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3290

You mean the cars modeled in HO by these 75-series Sunshine kits:
http://www.sunshinekits.com/sunimages/sun75.pdf


"That flat area behind the ladder and at the other end of the car near the
bulb angle is very distinctive. So far one is faced with bashing and/or
resin kits to get these cars."

Back in the 1980s, Dick Hosmer kitbashed one of these cars for the NEB&W by
cutting down an Athearn quad. This will give you the desired "chiseled"
offset profile, though the length might end up being a bit short.


"And I personally can use a few of these, as can many steam-era modellers.
They were found at many loco terminals loaded with loco coal. Those
modelling other roads than CN can chime in with their road's use of these
cars. I seem to recall that the NYC used loco coal shipped in IC hoppers?"

I hold zero IC hoppers in the Alburg data pulled from records in Armand
Premo's collection, though I haven't reviewed everything he has. Let me get
this straight - you're asking a manufacturer to invest in a hopper model
owned only by IC, KGB&W, and E&LS. Can you back up your assertions that
they were found at many locomotive terminals? It's certainly a signature
car of the IC, but unless you can prove there's going to be enough sales out
there, this suggestion is DOA.


Ben Hom


Re: Express reefer questions

dssa1051
 

I always wondered if there was a problem with film in recording these cars since the lettering on boxcars in the background of the same photo can be distinguished even though it's not at all legible. I've noticed in other steam era photos that reporting marks and/or roadnames are not visible on express reefers.

Robert Oom

--- In STMFC@..., "proto48er" <atkott@...> wrote:

Robert -

If they are express reefers in passenger service, they might be painted dark green with Dulux Gold lettering. If so, the older black & white films may not have recorded the lettering. Some older films do not pick up or distinguish yellows on a green background, even when newly painted.

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., "dssa1051" <dssa1051@> wrote:

The cars are DEFINITELY not the Soo Line cars since they both have the more arched roof like the General American cars. I don't have a scanner but I'll see what I can do to find one to use.

Robert Oom


Re: Forgotten Accurail Great Northern 2 Bay Canton Hopper

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Though the Accurail models are very nicely done, I'm thinking more of an accurate Illinios Central hopper car like the ones coloured in this photo--

http://media.photobucket.com/image/illinois%20central%20hopper%20car%20ghq/GHQ_Micro_Armour/ZM1%20O-4/ZM2%20Illinois%20Central%20Decals/05-IC-hopper-detailspadina.jpg

If the link doesn't work, here's the article containing the photo, and another of these cars, plus an IC folio drawing of the car-

http://www.ghqmodels.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3290

That flat area behind the ladder and at the other end of the car near the bulb angle is very distictive. So far one is faced with bashing and/or resin kits to get these cars. And I personally can use a few of these, as can many steam-era modellers. They were found at many loco terminals loaded with loco coal. Those modelling ohter roads than CN can chime in with their road's use of these cars. I seem to recall that the NYC used loco coal shipped in IC hoppers?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:

While on the subject of "odd" hopper cars, any chance of an
Illinois Central two-bay (or three-bay) hopper being brought
out by Accurail??  (hint, hint...)

So far there is lttle out there, other than resin, for
these very distinctive cars, and some of us could use a
few.

Steve Lucas.
You mean like this?
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/ART/7700/7711.jpg

Or this?
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/2400/2410.jpg

Or this?
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/2500/2518.jpg

Or this?
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/ART/7500/7517.JPG

Or even this?
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/ART/2700/2717.jpg

Heck, even 5th Avenue got into the act with IC hoppers:
http://www.accurail.com/accurail/art/custom/carshops/pdf/order.pdf

Accurail has been pretty decent about supporting IC paint schemes, even if they might not always paint cars in exactly what we might need (of the five cars above, I can only use the twin offset. I usually get more IC cars from 5th Avenue).

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: Express reefer questions

proto48er
 

Robert -

If they are express reefers in passenger service, they might be painted dark green with Dulux Gold lettering. If so, the older black & white films may not have recorded the lettering. Some older films do not pick up or distinguish yellows on a green background, even when newly painted.

A.T. Kott

--- In STMFC@..., "dssa1051" <dssa1051@...> wrote:

The cars are DEFINITELY not the Soo Line cars since they both have the more arched roof like the General American cars. I don't have a scanner but I'll see what I can do to find one to use.

Robert Oom


Re: Express reefer questions

dssa1051
 

The cars are DEFINITELY not the Soo Line cars since they both have the more arched roof like the General American cars. I don't have a scanner but I'll see what I can do to find one to use.

Robert Oom


Re: Freight Car Statistics (UNCLASSIFIED)

Randy Williamson
 

Elden,

Thanks. I would love to figure out the load/empties ratio to round
out the traffic study.

Randy Williamson
www.prrfreight.com

Quoting "Gatwood, Elden SAW" :

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

All;

Nice figures, Randy, and to which one might add, that assuming roughly 50% of
the fleet of the PRR was offline at any one time, foreign cars filling in for
the remainder, tank cars would be a significant percentage of the total of
freight cars on the PRR at any one time.

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Randy
Williamson
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 1:22 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics (UNCLASSIFIED)

Armand,

I was doing some quick calculations on a June, 1948 PRR freight traffic study
and by my estimates there were 16,543 loaded tank cars on the PRR during the
month. The were many different categories I used to come up with the
estimate.

Randy Williamson
www.prrfreight.com

Quoting "A. Premo" :

Elden,I am using the car totals as presented for 1947.If I have correctly
read the information the national tank car total, as given ,was only some
8531 cars with which I am having some difficulty accepting.Please correct me
if I am misreading those figures.Armand Premo
----- Original Message -----
From: Gatwood, Elden SAW
To: STMFC@... Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 11:59 AM
Subject: RE: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics (UNCLASSIFIED)
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE And there were boatloads of
tank cars around the major chemical producers and petro-chemical user
areas, such as portions of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Louisiana, and such, and
which also then differed from the more "common" oil-producer fleets.
With all the small gasoline distributors, and later LPG wheelers in the
mid-west and west, it would be hard to imagine a layout on which tank
cars were not in evidence. Elden Gatwood -----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@... ] On Behalf
Of Richard Hendrickson Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 11:50 AM To:
STMFC@... Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: Freight Car Statistics
On Jan 26, 2011, at 8:09 AM, A. Premo wrote: > David,Going even further
using this data one can come up with the % of > each car type in
relation to the total car fleet of a given period > (year).After
perusing the information tank cars represent a minuscule > percentage
of the total car fleet.Armand Premo Yes but, once again, Armand, one
has to think in terms of the region being modeled. Tank cars were all
over the place in the oil- producing and oil consuming regions of the
southwest and far west, much less so where coal was the major
industrial and heating fuel. In addition, western railroads like the SP
and Santa Fe had substantial fleets of tank cars in mostly captive
service hauling locomotive fuel. Richard Hendrickson [Non-text portions
of this message have been removed] Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
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Re: Freight Car Statistics

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
. . . western railroads like the SP and Santa Fe had substantial fleets of tank cars in mostly captive service hauling locomotive fuel.
This may well be true for Santa Fe, but for SP, no more than a third of its tank car fleet was in captive fuel service. It's worth adding that between Santa Fe, SP (+ T&NO), and UP were owned about two- thirds of all RAILROAD-owned tank cars in 1950.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Freight Car Statistics

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Gatwood, Elden wrote:
And there were boatloads of tank cars around the major chemical producers and petro-chemical user areas, such as portions of Ohio, Pennsylvania, Louisiana, and such, and which also then differed from the more "common" oil-producer fleets.
Remember that this depends on era. Your statement is very true after World War II and certainly in the 1950s, but much less so in earlier years. In the 1920s, for example, there was relatively little non-petroleum company ownership.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Freight Car Statistics

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@..., "mike brock" <brockm@...> wrote:
I'm a bit late into this thread and I may be missing something but, if I'm
reading it right, Armand's problem is that the 8531 total is for RR owned
tank cars. Union Tank Car alone had 44,831 tank cars in 1953. Shippers Car
Line had 11182 and Sinclair owned 4976. These numbers probably are similar
for 1948...

It should be noted that during WW2 solid trains of tank cars moved from the
southwest through Appalachia, rolling over billions of tons of coal which
was not very useful in oil derivative fuels used in tanks, ships and
aircraft.

Mike Brock
Mike,

One of the really cool things I hope to model on a WWII PRR layout - the stats I have seen suggest the PRR ran over 600 loaded tank cars over the summit at Gallitzen every day early in the war when the U-boats were right at the beach. Which means I am sure there were times when a loaded EB tank car unit train was passing an MT WB tank car unit train. So how many Proto tank cars can one person assemble???

Dave Evans


Re: Freight Car Statistics (UNCLASSIFIED)

devansprr
 

--- In STMFC@..., "A. Premo" <armprem2@...> wrote:

Elden,I am using the car totals as presented for 1947.If I have correctly read the information the national tank car total, as given ,was only some 8531 cars with which I am having some difficulty accepting.Please correct me if I am misreading those figures.Armand Premo
Armand,

In the '43 ORER I have totaled 152,872 tank cars so far - I haven't hit all the private car owners, but I have hit the major car owners, so I am probably within 1,000 to 5,000 of a full count. This compares to about 863,000 X-cars. (So one tank car for every 5.6 box cars!)

GATX had more tank cars than the X-car fleets of all but seven US railroads. UTLX had more tank cars (38,678) than ATSF had X-cars (35,918)! Only PRR and NYC (plus CN and CP) had more X-cars than UTLX had tank cars.

Even small fleets like SDRX (Sinclair) and SHPX (shippers) were bigger than the X-car fleets of DRG&W, P&LE, CGW, NC&STL, SLSW, WP, LV, D&H, MEC, B&M, BAR, and all but 33 of the largest railroad X-car fleets.

So tank cars do have a well earned spot on the model railroad.

I just wish we had more good models of the WWII tank car fleet. There are HUGE gaps.

Dave Evans

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