Date   

B&O Wagontop

Marty McGuirk
 

Apparently Matt at Fox Valley Models has announced a new B&O wagontop boxcar in N and HO scales.



It's not on the FVM web site as of this morning, but apparently details are included on the FVM Facebook page - which is something I can't access from work.



Thought someone on this list may want to check it out.



Marty McGuirk


Re: missing instructions

jerryglow2
 

Got it! thanks to the responders.

Jerry Glow

--- In STMFC@..., Jim Hayes <jimhayes97225@...> wrote:

I'll send it in a few minutes.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 7:17 AM, Gerald Glow <jerryglow@...> wrote:



Does anyone happen to have the instructions from an Intermountain ATSF
stock car? I seem to have lost mine. I can't find any on their site. A
PDF would probably work best.

TIA

--
Jerry Glow
The Villages FL
sent from a real computer - no I-anythings or any color berries







Re: B&O twin offsets (was Illinois Coal industry)

Benjamin Hom
 

Tim O'Connor wrote:
"Ben, according to older emails from Chris Barkan, Ed Hawkins, and
yourself, the Athearn twin is close for modeling B&O classes N-35,
N-41 and N-44 -- with the caveat that there are some differences on
the ends, and Duryea cushion underframes. (But then how likely are
we EVER to get a plastic twin offset with a Duryea underframe??)"

...and if you read Steve's e-mail that I'm replying to, produce the RTR B&O
hopper car that correctly models these cars.  As you pointed out, there aren't
any.


Ben Hom


Re: B&O twin offsets (was Illinois Coal industry)

Tim O'Connor
 

Ben, according to older emails from Chris Barkan, Ed Hawkins, and
yourself, the Athearn twin is close for modeling B&O classes N-35,
N-41 and N-44 -- with the caveat that there are some differences on
the ends, and Duryea cushion underframes. (But then how likely are
we EVER to get a plastic twin offset with a Duryea underframe??)

Tim O'Connor

In which plane of existence? I challenge you to produce said RTR B&O
hoppers - outside of the Class N-17 cars offered by Intermountain, there
aren't any on the market. Kadee won't offer B&O as one of their offset
twins because the great majority of the B&O's cars had Duryea cushion
underframes and end detail differences from their model. The huge Class
N-12 and subclasses aren't available in any form.

Ben Hom


Re: missing instructions

Jim Hayes
 

I'll send it in a few minutes.

Jim Hayes
Portland Oregon
www.sunshinekits.com


On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 7:17 AM, Gerald Glow <jerryglow@...> wrote:



Does anyone happen to have the instructions from an Intermountain ATSF
stock car? I seem to have lost mine. I can't find any on their site. A
PDF would probably work best.

TIA

--
Jerry Glow
The Villages FL
sent from a real computer - no I-anythings or any color berries





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Illinois Coal industry, was: IC "Chiselled Side" Offset Twins (UNCLASSIFIED)

Gatwood, Elden J SAD
 

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Southeastern Wyoming contains the Medicine Bow Range, Vedauwoo, Sherman Hill
and portions of other high plains mountains; all beautiful and a spectacular
setting for RR action. Southwestern Wyoming is "challenged" for "pretty"
scenery, but has some interesting RR backdrops, particularly as it approaches
the long drop into Utah. I wish I could have seen it while it was still in
steam!

Elden Gatwood

-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of
asychis@...
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 9:30 AM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Illinois Coal industry, was: IC "Chiselled Side" Offset
Twins



I don't think too many would call southeastern WY "pretty".

Now, now Mike. Speak for yourself! Maybe it's because I now live in the
Texas High Plains, but southeastern Wyoming is beautiful! All of Wyoming is
beautiful, it simply depends on your perspective. Following a FtW&D
freight north out of Cheyenne to Chugwater or a UP train over Sherman only
sweetens the deal.

Jerry Michels

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: missing instructions

Brian Ehni <behni@...>
 

I can send tonight, but if someone can fulfill his request soonerŠ

Thanks!
--

Brian P. Ehni




From: Gerald Glow <jerryglow@...>
Reply-To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Date: Fri, 28 Jan 2011 10:17:30 -0500
To: STMFC List <STMFC@...>
Subject: [STMFC] missing instructions








Does anyone happen to have the instructions from an Intermountain
ATSF
stock car? I seem to have lost mine. I can't find any on their site. A
PDF would probably work best.

TIA

--
Jerry Glow
The Villages FL
sent from a real computer - no I-anythings or any color berries


Re: Sloss-Sheffield Steel & Iron

water.kresse@...
 

Try the Hagley Museum in Greenville Delaware digital collections for photos . . . start with the AISI Collection and then check others.



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Greene" <jason.p.greene@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2011 9:25:12 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Sloss-Sheffield Steel & Iron

I have researched the railroad thoroughly. There is very little that has been written about this railroad. I have been working on a history, the Sloss Furnace Museum in Birmingham has the first edition, and have found very few pictures of the operation.

I have dug through old books on Birmingham and Sloss both. I have been to train shows looking for pictures. I have not had a chance to speak with Bob from Bob’s Photo because I can’t seem to get a working phone number for him. I have looked through several books and very little has shown up.

That is why I am looking for help. The railroad utilized nearly all second hand hoppers from what I can tell. I am hoping that some of you may have pictures or sources that may show cars being sold to Sloss. Company name followed this sequence: Sloss Company, Sloss-Sheffield Steel & Iron Co., US Pipe & Foundry Co., Jim Walter Industries, Jefferson Warrior and now it is Alabama Warrior.

Thank you for your help.

Jason Greene





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


missing instructions

jerryglow2
 

Does anyone happen to have the instructions from an Intermountain ATSF
stock car? I seem to have lost mine. I can't find any on their site. A
PDF would probably work best.

TIA

--
Jerry Glow
The Villages FL
sent from a real computer - no I-anythings or any color berries


Re: Illioins Coal industry, was :IC "Chiselled Side" Offset Twins

Andy Laurent
 

Al, the route on the waybill is the same...but the back half of that information was taken off the station stamps at the bottom of the bills. So, same route, different station/yard stops?

Andy L.

--- In STMFC@..., "al_brown03" <abrown@...> wrote:

Am I mis-reading this, or are both shipments from the same shipper to the same receiver, by different routes?

-- confused --

-- Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.


Re: Illinois Coal industry, was: IC "Chiselled Side" Offset Twins

asychis@...
 

I don't think too many would call southeastern WY "pretty".

Now, now Mike. Speak for yourself! Maybe it's because I now live in the
Texas High Plains, but southeastern Wyoming is beautiful! All of Wyoming is
beautiful, it simply depends on your perspective. Following a FtW&D
freight north out of Cheyenne to Chugwater or a UP train over Sherman only
sweetens the deal.

Jerry Michels


Re: IC GS gons

 

I was fortunate to find an IC GS gon at a show. My plan is to make it into a "cob" loading gon (I know wrong group, because they were converted in the 60's) . When they were converted the drop doors were welded shut and the chain mechanisms removed.
 
Rich Christie

--- On Fri, 1/28/11, soolinehistory <destorzek@...> wrote:


From: soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
Subject: [STMFC] IC GS gons
To: STMFC@...
Date: Friday, January 28, 2011, 7:10 AM


 





--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@...> wrote:

Now I can use that D/A GS gon that I bought years ago (this kit is wrong for CN Enterprise-design GS gons) AND model an IC loco car carrying loco coal.

Serendipity?

Steve Lucas.
Not quite. The big problem with the Detail Associates GS gon for those of us who model the mid-west is DA only ever modeled the Enterprise "link" door mechanism. This featured custom roller chain style chain on the door closing shafts that wound over itself, looking like disks when the doors were closed.

Most of the mid-western roads used the somewhat older "chain" mechanisms, where standard logging chain style chain was wound around a worm gear shaped casting as it pulled the doors closed. A small point, but one that looks distinctly different.

Red Caboose made alternate shafts with a pretty decent rendition of the chain on the spiral castings that they packed in their IC, Soo Line, perhaps other kits, but I don't know if the parts were ever available separately. If so, I imagine they could be made to fit the DA car.

Dennis











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


IC GS gons

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Lucas" <stevelucas3@...> wrote:

Now I can use that D/A GS gon that I bought years ago (this kit is wrong for CN Enterprise-design GS gons) AND model an IC loco car carrying loco coal.

Serendipity?

Steve Lucas.
Not quite. The big problem with the Detail Associates GS gon for those of us who model the mid-west is DA only ever modeled the Enterprise "link" door mechanism. This featured custom roller chain style chain on the door closing shafts that wound over itself, looking like disks when the doors were closed.

Most of the mid-western roads used the somewhat older "chain" mechanisms, where standard logging chain style chain was wound around a worm gear shaped casting as it pulled the doors closed. A small point, but one that looks distinctly different.

Red Caboose made alternate shafts with a pretty decent rendition of the chain on the spiral castings that they packed in their IC, Soo Line, perhaps other kits, but I don't know if the parts were ever available separately. If so, I imagine they could be made to fit the DA car.

Dennis


Re: Illinois Coal industry, was: IC "Chiselled Side" Offset Twins

Benjamin Hom
 

Steve Lucas wrote:
"Ironically, were I modelling seven years earlier than 1956, I'd instead
need models of B&O hoppers that carried coal to Lindsay and Peterborough,
Ontario across Lake Ontario on the car-ferry from the former BR&P near
Rochester, NY! Of course, THOSE are available RTR... :("

In which plane of existence? I challenge you to produce said RTR B&O
hoppers - outside of the Class N-17 cars offered by Intermountain, there
aren't any on the market. Kadee won't offer B&O as one of their offset
twins because the great majority of the B&O's cars had Duryea cushion
underframes and end detail differences from their model. The huge Class
N-12 and subclasses aren't available in any form.


Ben Hom


Re: needed cars

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Tim--

I can only agree with your post. I consider myself very lucky to have a decent-paying job and other benefits that go with it. Even if I often find myself working nights and weekends.

Very respectfully, I think that if we collectively want a specifc STMFC, this is the time to ask for it. When you mention "diminshing returns", the likelihood of producing X-3 tank cars and IC hoppers, diminishes with each passing day, as the modelling demographic shifts to modellers that want more modern equipment than our STMFC's in RTR. Might an on-line survey and/or poll be of use in finding out what we want??

By the way, I'm one of those "average" modellers, born in 1960 myself. My exposure to steam has been (to mention a few) CN 6060, CP 1057, British Columbia Railway ex-CPR 4-6-4 2860, N&W 611, Cass Scenic, and the Huckleberry Railroad in Flint, MI.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Steve, as much as I'd like to see some of these steam era cars
made available in RTR plastic, like the X-3, I wonder if the law
of diminishing returns increasingly applies.

Consider, when the 'revolution' in freight car modeling really
built up steam was around 1990 -- now 20 years ago.

The era favored by most members of STMFC, 1940-1950, now starts
70 years ago! The "average" model railroader was born around 1960
at the present time, and never witnessed steam powered trains.

Consider: Intermountain's two biggest selling HO models represent
prototype freight cars first built around 1980 (Canadian cylindrical)
and 1970 (Pullman Standard), and they are both covered hoppers. The
third best selling model was built in the late 1940's (PFE reefer).

Athearn and Atlas and BLMA have all recently produced models whose
prototypes first appeared after 1990 -- Just as Irv Athearn produced
contemporary models in the 1960's, we may be seeing a return to that
idea, because the prototype cars will be around for a long time.

I was shocked to read that a high quality RTR freight car model is
only expected to sell 15,000 (more or less) copies. I mean, do the
math -- if there are 50,000 HO modelers out there, and maybe only
10% of them or less buy such a model? Is it the Great Recession or
something else at work? (Unemployment has impacted white 50+ year
old males more than twice as hard as other groups -- this is the
"sweet spot" of the model railroad market.)

Tim O'Connor


Re: Illinois Coal industry

Tim O'Connor
 

I have this vague memory, that I read somewhere that the
largest mine on the Wabash in the postwar era was somewhere
in Indiana, not Illinois... Does that ring a bell with anyone?

The Wabash for years 1937-1939 inclusive:

Bituminous Coal:

originated-and-terminated-on-line: 1,343,053 tons
originated-and-delivered-to-others: 1,186,661 tons
received-from-others-and-terminated-on-line: 6,136,093 tons
received-from-others-and-delivered-to-others: 2,383,201 tons
total 11,049,008 tons

Most of the above numbers are significantly depressed compared
to the period 1928-1930, reflecting the effect of the depressed
economy which didn't end until WWII.

I have data for the above categories for these years for Alton,
Wabash, C&EI, and CGW for coal, wheat, and corn, and partial data
for a number of other cargos.

I have ORIGINATING TONNAGE numbers for 17 cargo categories for
Illinois in 1937-1939 (and 1928-1930) for 12 railroads (Alton,
AT&SF, C&EI, C&NW, CB&Q, CGW, CMStP&P, CRI&P, IC, IT, TP&W, WABASH).

FYI -- total ORIGINATING TONNAGE for all commodities from Illinois:

1928-1930 -- 171,626,367 tons
1937-1939 -- 128,211,981 tons -- a 25% decline!

I can also tell you how many cars the B&O interchanged with 'western'
railroads at Chicago, Peoria, and St Louis annually 1937-1939... but I
digress.

Tim O'Connor

----------------------------------------------------------

From the WRHS, Coal on the Wabash by Mark Vaughn, from Illinois State Mine
Inspector's Annual Report

Millions of tons Originated:

1900: IC 5322, CBQ 1799, C&EI 1789, Wab 1586, NYC 1287
1910: IC 7488, CBQ 5096, NYC 3812, C&EI 3812, Wab 2906
1940: IC 8993, CBQ 6104, C&IM 5120, MP 4343, NYC 4159 Wab 1342
1950: IC 11533, C&IM 7384, CBQ 7003, MP 5312, NYC 3876 Wab 0.767
1960: IC 8390, CBQ 4850, MP 4599, NYC 4351, C&IM 3877 Wab 0

In 1947, Wabash received 13788 loads of mostly coal from the C&O at Toledo,
11571 from WLE, and 12133 from C&IM at Taylorville.

Allen Rueter
StLouis MO


Re: Illinois Coal industry, was: IC "Chiselled Side" Offset Twins

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Ray--

A number of other Canadian modellers of CN steam operation in Southern Ontario, as well as I, will--I'll go out on a limb by including them as in this asssertion--buy good RTR HO models of Illinois Central hoppers.

Ironically, were I modelling seven years earlier than 1956, I'd instead need models of B&O hoppers that carried coal to Lindsay and Peterborough, Ontario across Lake Ontario on the car-ferry from the former BR&P near Rochester, NY! Of course, THOSE are available RTR... :(

So it's more than "nine" of us that'd like to see these IC hoppers produced, and I'll buy good RTR X-3's and H21's, too, if they ever come out. I may be modelling a line east of Toronto, Ontario, but it's amazing just how many of these cars made it to Lindsay. A 1953 photo of a CN Consol at the engine terminal there has behind it...an IC hopper. Not to mention stuff in other Lindsay photos like a Southern Railway boxcar. (Geez...another car to build...)

I'm not holding my breath either, but we can dream, ask, and advocate for the models we want, can't we?

Let's keep trying!

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Ray Breyer <rtbsvrr69@...> wrote:

Tim O'Connor wrote:
IC owned more than 19,000 open hoppers in 1950, and a few
thousand gondolas too. This was about 40% of IC's freight
car fleet. IC operated in Kentucky and Tennessee, and
interchanged with many other coal haulers. IC's core
business has always been coal, just like the L&N.

Hi Tim,

Let's put the IC into sharper focus. In 1950, the IC owned the seventh largest fleet of open hoppers in North America, with 28,625 cars (12,678 of them being these short taper offsets). They had the 11th largest gondola fleet with 8582 cars, which were about evenly split between composite and all steel GS gons (with a few mill gons thrown in for fun). That's a grand total of over 37,000 coal carrying freight cars, not including the few hundred cars on the C&IW or on long term lease to the C&IM.

The IC operated in 14 states, and was a dominant road in over half of them. The road serviced hundreds of coal mines in IL, KY and TN, and at one time even served mines in IA, WI and IN. Coal from IC hoppers served most of the Commonwealth Edison powerplants in the Midwest, along with C&IM hoppers (the C&IM leased hoppers short term from the IC during peak seasons, as well as from the NYC). IC coal went EVERYWHERE, and especially on the N-S spine: engine coal in Canada, steel mills and power plants on the Great Lakes, and export coal in New Orleans.

Illinois has the third largest proven coal reserves in the USA, and in 1950 was churning out more coal than West Virginia (check the USGS Bureau of Mines report for 1950, available online). During the 1950s the world's largest strip mine was in Illinois (on the P&E).

By any metric, the IC was a MAJOR coal player, and in many areas was the DOMINANT one.


Unfortunately, we're running in the "odd little men playing choo-choo" syndrome here. The hobby is biased towards the coasts where the scenery is "pretty", rather than towards the rust belt where all of the action is. Even those few hearty souls who DO model the Midwest don't concentrate on the production centers or major mining operations, but on bridge traffic routes where reefers dominate. So nobody in the hobby even KNOWS about this traffic, let alone about the IC. If it wasn't for their Orange and Chocolate streamliners, nobody would even be modeling that road (although what I think is the world's largest home layout is all IC. HOW big is Bob Perrin's empire again?)

So I'm not holding my breath waiting for anything close to resembling IC hoppers to come out of the mass market manufacturers, so long as all they stare at are mountain railroads. I'll be happy with my Atlas and Accurail stand ins, with a few of Chad Boas' Red Caboose conversion kits thrown in for fun (thanks for those Chad!). I had three of Sunshine's IC twins at one time, but sold them; even Frank isn't about to build many of them for his freight car fleet, since he thinks he needs more than 30 of them. He MAY have one piece hoppers cast with cast-on grabs done if he can find someone to do the molds, but they're a few years away.

Regards,
Ray Breyer
Elgin, IL


Re: Illinois Coal industry, was: IC "Chiselled Side" Offset Twins

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Now I can use that D/A GS gon that I bought years ago (this kit is wrong for CN Enterprise-design GS gons) AND model an IC loco car carrying loco coal.

Serendipity?

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


Mike, the Red Caboose/Detail Associates GS gondolas are pretty
close to IC GS gondolas -- both steel and composite styles. I think
Red Caboose released models decorated for IC. So you really have no
excuse to have no IC "coal cars". :-)

Tim O'Connor

--------------------------------

I have to blame IC for the lack of model hoppers. Mike Brock


Re: Illinois Coal industry, was: IC "Chiselled Side" Offset Twins

Tim O'Connor
 

Ray, this is starting to feel comical. Are we looking at the same
July 1950 Official Railway Equipment Register??

The "Total" listed in my copy is 53,640 cars. If I add up the tallies
of cars in your list below, I get 53,640.

So how did you get 56,516???

Tim O'Connor

Anyway, the 7/1950 ORER says that the IC had a total of 56,516 cars, broken down into
the following general categories:

X - 20,868
G - 6939 (the recapitulation in back says 6937)
H - 20,581
S - 1100
LO - 476
LP - 1161
F - 1498
R - 1017


Re: Sloss-Sheffield Steel & Iron

al_brown03
 

In the 1/43 ORER, US Pipe & Foundry (UPFX) is shown with three tank cars as their whole fleet. None of the companies listed appears in the 1/53 ORER. Were the hoppers not used in interchange?

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@..., Jason Greene <jason.p.greene@...> wrote:

I have researched the railroad thoroughly. There is very little that has been written about this railroad. I have been working on a history, the Sloss Furnace Museum in Birmingham has the first edition, and have found very few pictures of the operation.

I have dug through old books on Birmingham and Sloss both. I have been to train shows looking for pictures. I have not had a chance to speak with Bob from Bob’s Photo because I can’t seem to get a working phone number for him. I have looked through several books and very little has shown up.

That is why I am looking for help. The railroad utilized nearly all second hand hoppers from what I can tell. I am hoping that some of you may have pictures or sources that may show cars being sold to Sloss. Company name followed this sequence: Sloss Company, Sloss-Sheffield Steel & Iron Co., US Pipe & Foundry Co., Jim Walter Industries, Jefferson Warrior and now it is Alabama Warrior.

Thank you for your help.

Jason Greene

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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