Date   

Re: Kadee PS-1s

Tim O'Connor
 

Hi Dave.

My information comes from Richard Hendrickson's PS-1 article in
"The Warbonnet", Q3/1998, p.28. This is the SFRH&MS's magazine.
I'm sure the table on www.steamfreightcars.com is a compilation
from other sources (e.g. Ed Hawkins' Excel file).

Sounds like the AT&SF guys need a referee! :-)

Tim O'

--- Tim O'Connor wrote: "Dave, I think some of the expanded metal rb's were TRANSCO rather than GYPSUM* Unfortunately, as far as I know the etched TRANSCO rb's from Plano only fit the Intermountain PFE and SFRD ice reefers." *e.g. ATSF Bx-57

Tim,

I crosschecked data on ATSF Bx-57s from the previously cited table http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/protofrtcarsmain.html
against "Santa Fe Railway Rolling Stock Reference Series - Volume Four, Santa Fe Boxcars 1869-1953," by John C. Dobyne III, published by the SFRH&MS. Both sources agree that the Santa Fe's Bx-57 PS-1s were built with the early Gypsum RB.


Re: B&O Wagontop

al_brown03
 

Wright Trak make a really nice resin kit.

Al Brown, Melbourne, Fla.

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Andy Harman <gsgondola@...> wrote:

At 04:53 PM 1/28/2011 +0000, you wrote:

Apparently Matt at Fox Valley Models has announced a new B&O wagontop
boxcar in N and HO scales.
How many M-53s have been done? Sunshine, F&C, who else? This is the first
in styrene I think.

Andy


Re: B&O Wagontop

Charles Hladik
 

Fenton,
Keep those grits handy. They make for nice peeling paint, even on
steam era freight cars.
While you're at it, run downtown to the caboose and get a paint sample
so that it can be matched to (?) and then everyone can get the right color.
Chuck Hladik

In a message dated 1/29/2011 10:50:33 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
srrfan1401@gmail.com writes:

Thanks, Bruce I'll move my grits and see what paint colors I have. I
still
have one more Sunshine wagontop and several ACL and C&WC cars to build and
being lazy was hoping there was something straight out of the bottle.
I'm fixin to go up to da workshop and git some modlein dun.
Regards,
Fenton

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 10:31 AM, Bruce Smith <smithbf@auburn.edu> wrote:



O Fenton Wells asks, referring to prewar B&O colors:
Gentlemen, any idea of which model paints, if any out of the bottle
best
>match this " Alkali Resisting Brown" ?

Fenton, y'all (*using the more inclusive southernism, since there are
some ladies out there),

The suggestion was made that Roof Brown was an appropriate color for
this during the M26 project on Virtual Modelers. I used the Poly Scale
version and my reaction was "WOW is it BROWN!". When I do my next B&O
car, I will most likely cut the roof brown with some red, to taste.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL




--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@gmail.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: Modeling truss rods

Charles Hladik
 

Schuyler,
It works because you need to melt the end within the turnbuckle into a
small "mushroom" before threading on the turnbuckle. If all else fails buy
brass turnbucles.
Chuck Hladik

In a message dated 1/29/2011 10:07:30 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
schuyler.larrabee@verizon.net writes:




Gluing Delrin (is it?) and nylon? Will ACC really hold that joint under
some modest tension? It would seem to me that pulling the line taut would
be likely to pull them apart. No?

SGL

Ned,
I've built dozens of Westerfields cars with truss rods using the supplied
material and simply glueing two lengths of the mono-filament into the
turnbuckle casting. The end result is sturdier than you might first think.
A little trick for truss rods and getting good tension, is to place to glue
one end into a hole in the floor, pass the rad over only one queen post and
then glue into the other hole in the floor. Once the CA has cured gently
lift the mono-filament onto the other queen post. A little tension results.
Pierre Oliver
_http://elgincarshops.com/_ (http://elgincarshops.com/)

--- In _STMFC@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com)
<mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Ned Carey"
<nedspam@...> wrote:

I am currently working on two Westerfield truss rod kits. The truss rods
are modeled with what appears to be nylon fishing line.

The turnbuckles are a slipery type pastic (delrin?) For something that
has
as least modest tension to appear taught, this seems like a recipie for
disaster.

What techniques have you used to model truss rods? Anyone substitute
brass
or steel wire for they nylon? What success or problems have you had with
Nylon/delrin joint?

I want to model this so the space in the turnbuckle is see through as it
should be.

Thank you,

Ned Carey

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Interesting Month

Rhbale@...
 

Follow the bouncing ball!
In early January, at the Cocoa Beach RPM meet, Bill Schneider of Rapido
Trains, showed a preliminary sample of a new 37-foot wood sheathed reefer.
Later in the month, ExactRail announced that Chris Clune would step down
as CEO but would continue to be responsible for developing new products
including designing tooling.
On the 24th, John Engstrom of Athearn released the production schedule on
it’s highly-anticipated GP7/GP9 diesel locomotive. In the 1980s, John owned
Reeds Hobbies in La Mesa (San Diego), Calif.
Also on the 24th, Atlas announced that it had purchased Branchline’s
passenger and freight cars, a line that was developed under the direction of
Bill Schneider, who now works for Rapido Trains. The deal included Branchline’
s tooling, most of which was designed and cut several years ago by Chris
Clune who was an independent tool maker at the time. The acquisition was
confirmed by Branchline’s sales manager, Bob Bickley who, in the late 1980s,
purchased Reeds Hobbies from John Engstrom.
January was an interesting month.
Richard Bale
Read Model Railroad Hobbyist magaZine, its always FREE at
_www.mrhmag.com_ (http://www.mrhmag.com)



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Re: 40's era tank cars for sulfuric acid loading

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Ed Grabek wrote:
In Arizona today along the Sunset route it is common to see strings of tank cars labeled for sulfuric acid loading as they are a part of copper smelting operations. I am modeling a portion of an SP Branch serving a copper mine and smelting operation in Arizona as it appeared in 1948 and I will need to model tank cars for that purpose. My research so far has not turned up a clear view of a common type of tank car for sulfuric acid loading in that era. I am making the assumption that UTLX and possibly others had groups of cars for that purpose that were simple variations of their more common car types with modified domes and lined interiors for this service but I haven't been able to find any definitive pictures or drawings so far. Can anyone help me out?
You're right that acid cars were not tremendously different than other ICC 103 tank cars, but not in the UTLX fleet. By 1948 UTL was still heavily oriented to petroleum products and was just beginning to provide other car types for lease. There are lots of photos of acid cars built before 1948, for example the AC&F cars in both of Ed Kaminski's books about AC&F. You will find VERY good photos of acid cars, both privately owned and in the lease fleet of SHPX. GATX cars likewise served this need well before 1948.
Are you sure that sulfuric acid was being reclaimed by copper smelters in significant quantities by 1948? An awful lot of SO2 was simply going up stacks in previous years. I really don't know when the changeover occurred, but might guess it was later.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Kadee PS-1s

David Sieber
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor wrote: "Dave, I think some of the expanded metal rb's were TRANSCO rather than GYPSUM* Unfortunately, as far as I know the etched TRANSCO rb's from Plano only fit the Intermountain PFE and SFRD ice reefers." *e.g. ATSF Bx-57

Tim,

I crosschecked data on ATSF Bx-57s from the previously cited table http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/protofrtcarsmain.html
against "Santa Fe Railway Rolling Stock Reference Series - Volume Four, Santa Fe Boxcars 1869-1953," by John C. Dobyne III, published by the SFRH&MS. Both sources agree that the Santa Fe's Bx-57 PS-1s were built with the early Gypsum RB.

Transco's expanded metal running boards differed from Gypsum's in that the honeycomb diamonds appeared elongated lengthwise along the running board rather than transversely to the RB as on the early Gypsum. They were little-used, applied to comparatively few cars. I've found no PS-1s, 40ft or 50ft, built with Transco RBs. Perhaps you were thinking of the Southern Pacific, since the only boxcars recorded as using Transco RBs were two blocks of cars within SP 107100-1090099 (300 in B-50-32, 200 in B-50-33); 300 car were built by Pullman-Standard - but to AAR 1944 standard per SP Equipment Co. riveted design, not as welded PS-1s.

You remember correctly that the Santa Fe used Transco running boards and brake steps on several classes of rebuilt SFRD reefers (Rr-47,-48,-51); ATSF also used Transco on two classes of covered hoppers (Ga-75,-79). Additionally, SP used Transco on select covered hoppers in class H-70-8 for both SP and T&NO. As you note, Plano makes Transco running boards for reefers, (probably specially developed for Sunshine's SFRD reefer kits), but not for boxcars or covered hoppers (no manufacturer or customer demand?).

Ref: RP Cyc 16, and "Southern Pacific Freight Cars Volume 4: Box Cars" by Anthony Thompson.

Regards, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Re: Mathers reefer info needed

Douglas Harding
 

Clark I sent a photo off list, showing a HyGrade Mather reefer sitting at
the Decker loading dock, circa 1928. It is a down shot that clearly shows
the roof and other details your friend seeks. Richard Hendrickson confirmed
it was a Mather reefer when I first shared the photo with him.



Doug Harding

www.iowacentralrr.org


Re: FVM to do the B&O wagontop in HO & N

Bruce Smith
 

<Q1xaMacArthur1@juno.com> 01/28/11 6:49 PM >>>
The early scheme they offer would be for cars as built new
in 1937-38. And then they jump to post war with the Linking
13 Great States logo. Nothing for the WWII era.
Ed Kirstatter,
Ed,

How likely would it be for a car built in 1937/38 to get repainted,
especially in wartime? I personally think it would be pretty rare, and
without evidence a slightly later scheme, I would run these without
hesitation on my circa 1944 layout.

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn Al


40's era tank cars for sulfuric acid loading

Edward Grabek
 

In Arizona today along the Sunset route it is common to see strings of tank cars labeled for sulfuric acid loading as they are a part of copper smelting operations. I am modeling a portion of an SP Branch serving a copper mine and smelting operation in Arizona as it appeared in 1948 and I will need to model tank cars for that purpose. My research so far has not turned up a clear view of a common type of tank car for sulfuric acid loading in that era. I am making the assumption that UTLX and possibly others had groups of cars for that purpose that were simple variations of their more common car types with modified domes and lined interiors for this service but I haven't been able to find any definitive pictures or drawings so far. Can anyone help me out?

thank you

Ed Grabek


Re: Kadee PS-1s

Tim O'Connor
 

Dave, I think some of the expanded metal rb's were TRANSCO rather
than GYPSUM*. Unfortunately, as far as I know the etched TRANSCO rb's
from Plano only fit the Intermountain PFE and SFRD ice reefers.

Tim O'Connor

* e.g. ATSF Bx-57


Three prime examples from my replace-the-running-boards bin: Kadee #s 4822, 4917 & 4924, as WP 19521, 21068 & 20834 respectively; the prototypes were built 10-51 in PS lot#8027, all with Morton Open-Grip (round-hole) running boards. The WP was one of several roads that specified Morton running boards for most boxcars. Unfortunately, Kadee hasn't tooled any of the common transition era alternatives to their beautiful Apex running board, which also could stand in for Blaw-Knox, late Gypsum, and Kerrigan. Kadee puts Apexes on all their boxcars, even where incorrect for the prototype. Other roads who reportedly received 40ft PS-1s with either Morton or early Gypsum (expanded metal honeycomb) running boards included: ATSF, BS, C&EI, C&O, CGW, CIL, D&H, DL&W, FDDM&S, KCS, L&N, LS&I, LV, MSC, N&W, NC&StL, NYS&W, RF&P, RI, SA. SAL, SLSF, SRR (& subsidiaries), SSW, UP, and USAX. Reference: "Pullman-Standard PS-1 40' Box Car List" by Ed Hawkins at http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/
frtcars/protofrtcarsmain.html
Happily, Plano makes both the Morton and early Gypsum running boards, leaving us only to match Kadee's paint - or weather the car heavily.
Regards, Dave Sieber, Reno NV


Re: B&O Wagontop

rwitt_2000
 

To the Group,

What Bruce stated is what I always believed to be the case until about 6
months ago I purchased an Al Armitage print of a as-built M-53 (#381303)
in service still lettered with "NEW-9-37" that does not have the Kuhler
emblem on the left side of the door. So now the early use and placement
of the Kuhler emblem on B&O boxcars is less clear. So based on this
single photo I will have to say the FVM lettering appears correct, but
for what batch of cars and how many remains unknown.

I believe the post-WWII "13 States" cars should be painted oxide red not
the earlier dark brown. Maybe Ed Hawkins can find the bill of materials
to verify the paint specifications for the 500 class M-58a built by AC&F
in 1947 for the B&O.

Regards,

Bob Witt

Bruce Smith replied:

Are you referring to the plain B&O capital dome that is seen on the
left
side of these cars? Yep, it is missing from the artwork! But hey,
that's what decals are for ;^) and at least this baby comes with the
correct flat panel door for those of us who want the original
configuration...

Gene Green wrote:
I immediately pulled out RP CYC #9 to compare FVM
illustrations with the photos in the M53 article. It appears to me
that
the as-delivered scheme is missing a small round emblem to the left of
the door. What am I missing?


Re: B&O Wagontop

Andy Harman
 

At 04:53 PM 1/28/2011 +0000, you wrote:

Apparently Matt at Fox Valley Models has announced a new B&O wagontop boxcar in N and HO scales.
How many M-53s have been done? Sunshine, F&C, who else? This is the first in styrene I think.

Andy


Re: GS gons

Dennis Storzek
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, water.kresse@... wrote:


I wondered about the strength of the side assemblies get the loads thru the body bolster when being clamped in a dumper and then tilted or rotated.  The earlier cars had very rigid, continuous stable timbers along their side assemblies.  With a steel side structure we are looking beams and shear plates to handle these loads.

Here is the link to the image I wanted earlier:

http://www.shorpy.com/node/9682?size=_original

I'm sure these dumpers were hard on the cars, that seems to be a recurring comment that the Salida dumper did a lot of damage to the top plank of the D&RGW NG cars.


Re: IC GS gons

water.kresse@...
 

David,



I wondered about the strength of the side assemblies get the loads thru the body bolster when being clamped in a dumper and then tilted or rotated.  The earlier cars had very rigid, continuous stable timbers along their side assemblies.  With a steel side structure we are looking beams and shear plates to handle these loads.



Was there an angular center sill cap to divert the coal thru the openings or was it flat a foot plus across?



Al Kresse

----- Original Message -----
From: "jaydeet2001" <jaydeet2001@yahoo.com>
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 8:50:14 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Re: IC GS gons

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:

The 1905 era gons with drop doors didn't have doors over the trucks, so weren't "self clearing" and still required men to shovel about half the load out through the doors.
That depends on the car in question. The Ralston GS gons certainly did have doors over the trucks, as did some Cambria cars of that era.

The broader point about the volume used by the customer is valid, though it should be tempered by era. The stereotypical GS gondola with a full complement of drop doors appeared just after 1900 (once steel framing made it practical), and initially found buyers in coastal New England, the Midwest, and most roads that made it to the Pacific. After 1915 or so, the range of purchasers steadily retreated westward so that the Pacific roads were about the only large buyers after 1950.

David Thompson



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: IC GS gons

David
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:

The 1905 era gons with drop doors didn't have doors over the trucks, so weren't "self clearing" and still required men to shovel about half the load out through the doors.
That depends on the car in question. The Ralston GS gons certainly did have doors over the trucks, as did some Cambria cars of that era.

The broader point about the volume used by the customer is valid, though it should be tempered by era. The stereotypical GS gondola with a full complement of drop doors appeared just after 1900 (once steel framing made it practical), and initially found buyers in coastal New England, the Midwest, and most roads that made it to the Pacific. After 1915 or so, the range of purchasers steadily retreated westward so that the Pacific roads were about the only large buyers after 1950.

David Thompson


Re: FVM to do the B&O wagontop in HO & N

Q1xaMacArthur1@...
 

That looks like it will be a nice model in either HO or N
if the do it right.

If you look at that prototype photo you can see the Tatum slack
adjuster there on the right side sill of car near the truck at E end.

On their artwork it appears to be on the left side of car there
near left end just below the side sill.

I hope this is just an error in the artwork. I know the B&O didn't
have those on both sides.

The early scheme they offer would be for cars as built new
in 1937-38. And then they jump to post war with the Linking
13 Great States logo. Nothing for the WWII era.

Ed Kirstatter,
B&O Modeler.

____________________________________________________________
Get Free Email with Video Mail & Video Chat!
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Re: B&O Wagontop

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Marty, no I was asking about the plain B&O capital dome in a circle.

Bruce, thanks for confirming that the plain B&O capital dome should be on the cars in the as-delivered scheme.

And Denis, good to know a source of decals is available.

Finally, would the second Fox Valley paint scheme have been in use before 1950? If I understood a caption in RP Cyc 9 correctly, it would have.

Gene Green


Re: B&O Wagontop

seaboard_1966
 

Let me remind folks that WrightTRAK has custom decals for these M53's that cover ALL the paintschemes as applied to these cars.


Denis Blake




2011 Central Ohio Prototype Modelers Meet, May 19-21

http://www.facebook.com/pages/manage/#!/pages/Central-Ohio-Prototype-Modelers-Meet/326645470797

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Smith
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 7:10 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: B&O Wagontop

Gene,

Are you referring to the plain B&O capital dome that is seen on the left
side of these cars? Yep, it is missing from the artwork! But hey,
that's what decals are for ;^) and at least this baby comes with the
correct flat panel door for those of us who want the original
configuration...

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"Gene" <bierglaeser@yahoo.com> 01/28/11 3:14 PM >>>
Three of the B&O M53 box cars show up on the Landmesser hot box list so
I "need" some. I immediately pulled out RP CYC #9 to compare FVM
illustrations with the photos in the M53 article. It appears to me that
the as-delivered scheme is missing a small round emblem to the left of
the door. What am I missing?
Gene Green



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Re: B&O Wagontop

Bruce Smith
 

Gene,

Are you referring to the plain B&O capital dome that is seen on the left
side of these cars? Yep, it is missing from the artwork! But hey,
that's what decals are for ;^) and at least this baby comes with the
correct flat panel door for those of us who want the original
configuration...

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"Gene" <bierglaeser@yahoo.com> 01/28/11 3:14 PM >>>
Three of the B&O M53 box cars show up on the Landmesser hot box list so
I "need" some. I immediately pulled out RP CYC #9 to compare FVM
illustrations with the photos in the M53 article. It appears to me that
the as-delivered scheme is missing a small round emblem to the left of
the door. What am I missing?
Gene Green



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