Date   

Re: Athearn Blue Box Gondola

Bruce Smith
 

Pierre,

As was noted in an earlier reply, the 2009/10 Shake and Take project
from Prototype Rails was a 40' DT&I car bashed from this car. S-n-T has
its own Yehaw group now at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shake_N_Take/?yguid=108322125

Regards
Bruce Smith
Auburn, AL

"Pierre" <pierreferland2010@hotmail.com> 02/02/11 8:55 PM >>>
Thank you for the information, but I'd like to know how to kitbash one
into a prototype. Any ideas? Pierre

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


It would be nice to have a plastic model of a fixed end 52'6" gondola
wouldn't it? Perhaps Dennis will be looking to add this to Accurail's
product line? If so, what prototype would be the best one? I'd love
to see one of the PS-5 gondolas.

The FCL is long kaput. Richard Hosker managed it but the resource came
from a college and I gather they pulled the resources.

I thought the FCL-STMFC-RPMForum rift began with an argument over
whether
plastic or wood was best for representing wood on scale models... but
maybe that was just another in a series. :-&#92;

Tim O'Connor


Pierre Ferland asked:
"Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas?"

Not out of the box. This model is one of several examples of Athearn
models
designed around tooling of previous models to produce another car
type that
doesn't match any prototype (this model, the 50 ft plug door boxcar)
or is
only coincidentally close to a prototype (the ribbed side twin).

That being said, it can be kitbashed into a small number of
prototypes,
including a DT&I auto frame gon done as the 2009 Cocoa Beach
Shake-N-Take
project. Go to the Shake-N-Take group website and search on DT&I for
more
details.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shake_N_Take/


Ben Hom

P.S. - Your question is a bit of a loaded question for this group - a
discussion regarding this model was the straw that broke the camel's
back
that resulted in the founding of this group. BTW, how is the old FCL
doing
nowadays?



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Athearn Blue Box Gondola

Pierre
 

Thank you for the information, but I'd like to know how to kitbash one into a prototype. Any ideas? Pierre

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Tim O'Connor <timboconnor@...> wrote:


It would be nice to have a plastic model of a fixed end 52'6" gondola
wouldn't it? Perhaps Dennis will be looking to add this to Accurail's
product line? If so, what prototype would be the best one? I'd love
to see one of the PS-5 gondolas.

The FCL is long kaput. Richard Hosker managed it but the resource came
from a college and I gather they pulled the resources.

I thought the FCL-STMFC-RPMForum rift began with an argument over whether
plastic or wood was best for representing wood on scale models... but
maybe that was just another in a series. :-&#92;

Tim O'Connor


Pierre Ferland asked:
"Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas?"

Not out of the box. This model is one of several examples of Athearn models
designed around tooling of previous models to produce another car type that
doesn't match any prototype (this model, the 50 ft plug door boxcar) or is
only coincidentally close to a prototype (the ribbed side twin).

That being said, it can be kitbashed into a small number of prototypes,
including a DT&I auto frame gon done as the 2009 Cocoa Beach Shake-N-Take
project. Go to the Shake-N-Take group website and search on DT&I for more
details.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shake_N_Take/


Ben Hom

P.S. - Your question is a bit of a loaded question for this group - a
discussion regarding this model was the straw that broke the camel's back
that resulted in the founding of this group. BTW, how is the old FCL doing
nowadays?


Re: Undec Kit packing was Re: B&O wagontop

Tim O'Connor
 

Dave, Rapido is three times the size of Tangent in employees alone!
You can't expect them to do this kind of thing. Really. Sheesh.

Tim O'

At 2/2/2011 08:13 PM Wednesday, you wrote:
Wow...
Jeez Dave, I’ve been humbled... I can only hope to aspire to such great heights... Thanks pal!
See guys � this is EXACTLY what I’ve been trying to avoid! ;>)
Bill

Ah come on Bill, look at this:
http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/image/100826815
http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/image/100826820
http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/image/100826823

For the 2008 NMRA National Train Show in Anaheim, Tangent owner Dave Lelbach along with Dan Kohlberg and Brian Rutherford stayed at my house. Well the night before the show Dave had all of us packing undecorated kits of his mumble mumble (non steam era car) on my kitchen table. Dave brought all the parts in a couple suitcases and had pre shipped me the boxes. So this is how the big players do (or did) it.

Dave Hussey


Re: Undec Kit packing was Re: B&O wagontop

Bill Schneider
 

Wow...
Jeez Dave, I’ve been humbled... I can only hope to aspire to such great heights... Thanks pal!
See guys – this is EXACTLY what I’ve been trying to avoid! ;>)
Bill
--- In mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com, "Bill Schneider" <bschneider424@...> wrote:
I can, I think, safely say that if the only option for us
to make a kit available is to have Jason, Dan or myself (the entire staff of
Rapido!) sitting at our kitchen table packing boxes and running them down to
the post office to mail them out one at a time, then it probably won't
happen... ;>)

Bill Schneider
Ah come on Bill, look at this:
http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/image/100826815
http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/image/100826820
http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/image/100826823

For the 2008 NMRA National Train Show in Anaheim, Tangent owner Dave Lelbach along with Dan Kohlberg and Brian Rutherford stayed at my house. Well the night before the show Dave had all of us packing undecorated kits of his mumble mumble (non steam era car) on my kitchen table. Dave brought all the parts in a couple suitcases and had pre shipped me the boxes. So this is how the big players do (or did) it.

Dave Hussey


Undec Kit packing was Re: B&O wagontop

dh30973
 

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, "Bill Schneider" <bschneider424@...> wrote:
I can, I think, safely say that if the only option for us
to make a kit available is to have Jason, Dan or myself (the entire staff of
Rapido!) sitting at our kitchen table packing boxes and running them down to
the post office to mail them out one at a time, then it probably won't
happen... ;>)

Bill Schneider
Ah come on Bill, look at this:
http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/image/100826815
http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/image/100826820
http://www.pbase.com/dh30973/image/100826823

For the 2008 NMRA National Train Show in Anaheim, Tangent owner Dave Lelbach along with Dan Kohlberg and Brian Rutherford stayed at my house. Well the night before the show Dave had all of us packing undecorated kits of his mumble mumble (non steam era car) on my kitchen table. Dave brought all the parts in a couple suitcases and had pre shipped me the boxes. So this is how the big players do (or did) it.

Dave Hussey


Re: Athearn Blue Box Gondola

Tim O'Connor
 

It would be nice to have a plastic model of a fixed end 52'6" gondola
wouldn't it? Perhaps Dennis will be looking to add this to Accurail's
product line? If so, what prototype would be the best one? I'd love
to see one of the PS-5 gondolas.

The FCL is long kaput. Richard Hosker managed it but the resource came
from a college and I gather they pulled the resources.

I thought the FCL-STMFC-RPMForum rift began with an argument over whether
plastic or wood was best for representing wood on scale models... but
maybe that was just another in a series. :-&#92;

Tim O'Connor

Pierre Ferland asked:
"Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas?"

Not out of the box. This model is one of several examples of Athearn models
designed around tooling of previous models to produce another car type that
doesn't match any prototype (this model, the 50 ft plug door boxcar) or is
only coincidentally close to a prototype (the ribbed side twin).

That being said, it can be kitbashed into a small number of prototypes,
including a DT&I auto frame gon done as the 2009 Cocoa Beach Shake-N-Take
project. Go to the Shake-N-Take group website and search on DT&I for more
details.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shake_N_Take/


Ben Hom

P.S. - Your question is a bit of a loaded question for this group - a
discussion regarding this model was the straw that broke the camel's back
that resulted in the founding of this group. BTW, how is the old FCL doing
nowadays?


Re: Athearn Blue Box Gondola

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 2, 2011, at 3:43 PM, Benjamin Hom wrote:

Pierre Ferland asked:
"Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas?"

Not out of the box. This model is one of several examples of
Athearn models
designed around tooling of previous models to produce another car
type that
doesn't match any prototype....
P.S. - Your question is a bit of a loaded question for this group - a
discussion regarding this model was the straw that broke the
camel's back
that resulted in the founding of this group.
Ben is correct on both counts. I had it on the authority of the late
Leo Munson, one of Athearn's toolmakers, that the Athearn mill
gondola body was "free-lanced" to fit the underframe and floor weight
of the 50' flat car - which was itself "free-lanced," for that
matter, as was the 40' flat. All of what came to be known as the
Athearn "blue box" models were developed primarily as Athearn's entry
into the "toy train" market as HO scale train sets replaced Lionel
and American Flyer tinplate toy trains. In their day, and in that
market, they were a good cut above the competitive products offered
by Tyco, AHM, etc. but not nearly as prototypically accurate as the
Athearn metal kits that preceded them.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Athearn Blue Box Gondola

Andy Harman
 

At 06:43 PM 2/2/2011 -0500, you wrote:
P.S. - Your question is a bit of a loaded question for this group - a
discussion regarding this model was the straw that broke the camel's back
that resulted in the founding of this group. BTW, how is the old FCL doing
nowadays?
The last post I have was on 3/25/07. The list simply stopped with no warning. I thought I might have been bumped and tried to re-up, but no response. As far as I know it's gone unless I've just been bumped all this time and didn't know how to get back on.

Andy


Re: Athearn Blue Box Gondola

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Pierre Oliver wrote:
Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas?
As with their "50-foot" flat car, they seem to have shortened a real car to handle shorter curves. Or something. Thus both the gon and flat can be stretched to 53' 6" (e.g. using another kit) and come much closer to several prototypes. But out of the box, no. Richard Hendrickson years ago did an article on several clever kitbashes of the Athearn gon, such as making the sides straight, adding drop ends, etc. to get closer to some real cars. I think it was in _Prototype Modeler_ but don't recall for sure.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@signaturepress.com
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Athearn Blue Box Gondola

Benjamin Hom
 

Pierre Ferland asked:
"Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas?"

Not out of the box. This model is one of several examples of Athearn models
designed around tooling of previous models to produce another car type that
doesn't match any prototype (this model, the 50 ft plug door boxcar) or is
only coincidentally close to a prototype (the ribbed side twin).

That being said, it can be kitbashed into a small number of prototypes,
including a DT&I auto frame gon done as the 2009 Cocoa Beach Shake-N-Take
project. Go to the Shake-N-Take group website and search on DT&I for more
details.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shake_N_Take/


Ben Hom

P.S. - Your question is a bit of a loaded question for this group - a
discussion regarding this model was the straw that broke the camel's back
that resulted in the founding of this group. BTW, how is the old FCL doing
nowadays?


Re: Athearn Blue Box Gondola

Schuyler Larrabee
 

50' version?



No.



SGL



From: STMFC@yahoogroups.com [mailto:STMFC@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Pierre
Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 6:30 PM
To: STMFC@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [STMFC] Athearn Blue Box Gondola





Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas? Pierre








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Re: B&O wagontop

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

Or no glue at all, like Kadee.
Gene Green

--- In STMFC@yahoogroups.com, Bill Kelly <wbkelly@...> wrote:

If the only way to get an undecorated model is assembled then can it at
least be assembled with a water soluble cement ? Same assembly line,
packaging etc just different glue. It could be handled and shipped like
the other cars but it would be easy to disassemble.
Later,
Bill Kelly


Athearn Blue Box Gondola

Pierre
 

Is there a prototype for the old Athearn blue box gondolas? Pierre


Re: B&O wagontop

Bill Schneider
 

Tim O’, seeing the light, commented:

"But don't you just KNOW that people would gripe that their freshly
painted and decaled model just fell apart? :-)"

Yep. Bound ta' happen... ;>)

Bill Schneider


Re: B&O wagontop

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill, good idea!

Or just tack it with CA. Walthers used to use CA on some models and
I could debond parts with relative ease.

But don't you just KNOW that people would gripe that their freshly
painted and decaled model just fell apart? :-)

Tim O'

If the only way to get an undecorated model is assembled then can it at
least be assembled with a water soluble cement ? Same assembly line,
packaging etc just different glue. It could be handled and shipped like
the other cars but it would be easy to disassemble.
Later,
Bill Kelly


Re: parts is parts (was B&O wagontop)

Tim O'Connor
 

Bill

For the most part, RTR models are better than the kits of yesteryear,
I will certainly agree with that.

But I've had my share of problems with RTR, because frankly I can build
a model better than it can be mass produced in China. I can't count the
number of models I've received that have parts missing, or loose and they
fall off, or poorly fitted parts (like roof/end/side/floor seams). To say
nothing of the desire to substitute replacement parts that are correct
for a specific prototype (or are maybe just better looking parts).

I understand the economics of manufacturing in China. Intermountain still
has its tooling in the US, as does Kadee, Accurail, Ribside -- so they can
still offer us kits in plain cardboard boxes! I still buy & build kits.

Tim O'Connor

If you honestly consider todays RTR offerings as "Toy Trains" then
I might suggest that you're not looking close enough. RTR or not, there
has never been a time where we have had such a high level of accuracy
and detail. Ever.
Bill Schneider


Re: B&O wagontop

mike brock <brockm@...>
 

Bill Schneider writes in response to Andy Harman's:

“But really guys, if you're in this strictly for the money why not just open
up a cell phone kiosk at the mall instead of manufacturing trains?"

There are days....!
The real reason, of course, is that Bill's snow plow uses too much fuel to go to the mall every day.

Mike Brock


Re: Equipment Instructions for freight cars

Tim O'Connor
 

Dennis

That one's easy -- It depends who bought dinner most recently for
the shipping manager! :-)

My brother in law was a pension fund manager for Wisconsin, and he
told me about the expensive dinners he'd be taken to by companies
who wanted to handle his trading. Basically they all offer the same
services, so the dinner is what matters! :-)

Tim O'

The question is, what were the economic factors that could make the same company
choose different shipping solutions for two plants just thirty miles apart?
Dennis


Re: Equipment Instructions for freight cars

Dave Nelson
 

-----Original Message-----
The question is, what were the economic factors that could make the same
company choose different shipping solutions for two plants just thirty miles
apart?

Dennis
------------------------------------

Perhaps they considered winter delivery by water too iffy.

Perhaps they acquired ownership of a coal mine that was sufficiently west as
to make the water route less than, say 100 miles (IIRC that's one example
previously mentioned on STMFC where the distance beyond which of shipment of
coal by water on the Great Lakes was cheaper than rail). US Steel owned
plenty of coal mines... railroads too (e.g., The Carbon County RR in Utah)
so its not entirely implausible the same sort of vertical integration
(popular in the era) occurred in this example.

Perhaps someone with an eye to confusing future generations of friends of
the freight car set up an elaborate joke. :o)


Dave Nelson


Re: B&O wagontop

Andy Harman
 

On Wed, 02 Feb 2011 16:08:52 -0500, Bryan Buss�y wrote
possible minimum run restrictions. Add the additional American labor to
that, even at minimum wage, and you killed whatever tiny profit margin
that might have existed on the parts.
I think we're all in agreement that making a profit on the parts just isn't going to
happen. We're just trying to find a way that it can get done at break-even or minor
loss made up by goodwill and the glowing praise of the modeling community. Even after
50 years in the hobby, I wouldn't want to hazard a guess as to how much influence the
rivet counters really have over the good-enoughers who buy RTR. Certainly there are
some non-modelers who hold out for a verdict from the rivet counters before they go buy
a product, and certainly plenty who don't. Manufacturers love to remind us we're a tiny
minority, and others among us play up the intangibles... like, we do reviews, write
articles, write books, do clinics that can at least potentially influence the sales of
the product. But the degree of that influence is not something I want to speculate on,
to me it's unknowable and each manufacturer has to proceed on a gut feeling I suppose.

Andy

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