Date   

Oil extraction

Clark Propst
 

I have a couple photos of trailers with boilers and (gas?) engine operated pumps for siphoning heavy oil from tank cars.

Can anyone tell me more about the components and operation of these extraction trailers?

Clark Propst


Re: Athearn Blue Box Gondola

Bill Welch
 

Revell model kits from roughly this same era, their airplane models for example, are referred to as "Box Scale" by collector of these kits.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:



--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@> wrote:

Greg Martin wrote:
When we used to ask, "why not prototype for -foot gondola and the
50-foot flat" our local hobby Shop owner (Dan at the Little Depot in
Anaheim, CA) said, "because they fit in the box" referring to the
original shot Blue Box. Perhaps a little over simplistic but it
makes sense.
It may appear to make sense but there are indications it's just
a legend.

Tony Thompson
I would suspect it was to fit the bodies into an existing four slide mold base, thus avoiding the expense of a new mold base. I've been told that the Details West line of car kits were also built to fit this mold base, and if you'll recall, the DW double plug door boxcar was also too short.

Dennis


Re: PS-0 end drawings needed

Ed Hawkins
 

On Feb 5, 2011, at 4:57 PM, SMMW wrote:

I would suggest you identify as may car series as possible that had
the end
in question, the contact the Pullman Library at the Illinois Railway
Museum.
IRM is the repository for the largest collection of extant Pullman and
Pullman-Standard drawings, and should have what you need. You can
contact
the curator via E0mail at:

<Ted Anderson> <mailto:tedander%40core.com> tedander@...
Jim,
These cars were produced in two lot number groups by Pullman-Standard.
To find the applicable drawings, Ted will ask you for the lot numbers
if you don't know the actual drawing numbers.

Lot 5584, built in 1938 for CGW, B&LE, UP
Lot 5604A/B/C, built in 1940 for NKP, PM, and WLE, respectively
All cars were built at the P-S plant at Michigan City, Indiana.

As noted by Bob Witt, the ends of these two groups weren't the same.
The 1938-built cars had ends with square corners and 9 corrugations.
The 9 corrugations (4 on top end panel and 5 on bottom) were all the
same length, and the pointeds end of each corrugation stopped short of
the corners.

The 1940-built cars had ends with round corners and 10 corrugations (5
on both the top and bottom end panels). The top corrugation was shorter
than the others, and the pointed ends of the top corrugation stopped
short of the round corners. The pointed ends of the other 9
corrugations wrapped around the corners a slight amount.

There are two good in-service photos that could be of help, both of
which are 3/4 views showing the end in good light. CGW 90036 has a New
7-38 stencil and is available from Arnold Menke. NKP 20177 has a 5-43
reweigh stencil (built 1-40) and is available from Jay Williams. Hope
this helps.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins


Re: PS-0 end drawings needed

rwitt_2000
 

Tim,

Unfortunately I believe John Nehrich PS-0 designation has created
confusion. In my humble opinion there are two groups of early
Pullman-Standard boxcars. The first group from the mid-1930s that were
all welded and marketed as "light weight" cars. I believe some used
Con-Ten and other special steels.

There is another group of cars built from ~1940 to ~1941 such as the WLE
and KCS express boxcars referenced by Tim, that utilized existing steel
freight construction methods with riveted sides, etc. where
Pullman-Standard supplied what Tim refers to as "Car Builder" ends.
There where two versions of these one for square corner posts and one
modified for "W" corner posts.

The B&O ordered cars from P-S in 1941 that had the car builder ends.
Their class M-55a and M-55b and their first group of 50-ft automobile
cars the M-57, M-57a with Evans auto loaders, and M-57b with end doors.
The 40-ft cars followed AAR 1937 standard with an IH of 10'-0" and these
ends had 4/5 pattern. The 50-ft cars had an IH of 10'-6" and these ends
had a 5/5 pattern where the upper corrugation was slightly shorter. The
corrugation had the usual complex shape and tapered to a blunt point at
their ends. The B&OHS has drawings for these ends, as yet not digitized,
and as noted in another post, Ted Anderson at the Pullman Library of the
IRM should have the original drawings for all these boxcars.

I believe we need some other designations to separate the early
"light-weight" all welded boxcars built by Pullamn-Standard, John
Nehrich's PS-0, from the later cars that followed traditional freight
car construction methods for that time, e.g. riveted construction using
the usual thickness of plate steel for the various components.

Regards,

Bob Witt


Tim O'Connor wrote:


Plus one oddball, Rock Island #149041, built in 1939.

Roster Reference:
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/153/11083/november-1993-page-29

My notes say that John Nehrich's article Mainline Modeler Feb 1988
pp.40-45
has some PS-0 drawings, but I haven't searched for that issue to see
whether
there is a drawing of the ends or not.

I call the ends "Pullman Standard carbuilder ends" because they
appeared
on a number of other PS box cars: CGW 91000-91099, CGW 92000-92149,
C&EI
low numbered box cars ("Dixie Flyers"), SAL AF-1/AF-2 (I think), and
maybe
the KCS 50' express box cars.

The UP series 186000-186049 were actually in two classes B-50-34 and
-35.
The -34 had peaked Murphy roofs and the -35 had the PS welded radial
roof.


-----------------------------------------
"'PS-0 or PS-Zero' was John Nehrich's lexicon for two groups of
Pullman's pre-war lightweight welded boxcars, the first built in 1936
and acquired by CGW, B&LE, and UP; the second group built in 1936 and
acquired by NKP, W&LE, and PM."

Trying to get responses out in a hurry - the second group of cars was
built in 1940. Thanks to Brian Carlson for the correction. Apologies
for any confusion.

Ben Hom


Re: Athearn Blue Box Gondola

Schuyler Larrabee
 

At 01:00 PM 2/5/2011 -0500, you wrote:
When we used to ask, "why not prototype for -foot gondola and the 50-foot
flat" our local hobby Shop owner (Dan at the Little Depot in Anaheim, CA)
said, "because they fit in the box" referring to the original shot Blue
Box. He said that Irv spent more on box than the plastic inside
it. Perhaps a
little over simplistic but it makes sense.
Except they didn't fit in the box. The 50' box cars and the 50' gondola
had to be jammed into the box diagonally which put a lot of pressure on the
couplers. Some of the longer cars had the box extended and it still wasn't
long enough to accommodate the finished model.

Nowadays I keep two-piece boxes like Branchline's and use them for parts
and project trays. I pretty much throw away all sleeve and clamshell boxes.

Andy

Andy, you weren't supposed to put the car back in the box after you'd
mounted the couplers! You were supposed to put it on the 4x8 and throw the
box away.

SGL





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Re: PS-0 end drawings needed

Jim King
 

Jim, I have some bad news for you. As far as I know, that end was never
drawn in the CBC, anyway, the drawings that have made it into the CBC do not
really contain enough information to completely define the surfaces of the
ends.

I would suggest you identify as may car series as possible that had the end
in question, the contact the Pullman Library at the Illinois Railway Museum.
IRM is the repository for the largest collection of extant Pullman and
Pullman-Standard drawings, and should have what you need. You can contact
the curator via E0mail at:

<Ted Anderson> <mailto:tedander%40core.com> tedander@...

Dennis



Dennis . in my CBC issues from 1953 onward, there are numerous, highly
detailed drawings of ends and doors that I routinely use to create CAD
models for patterns. Yes, not every dimension is shown but a high-rez scan,
enlarged, printed and scaled image will yield sufficient information using a
scaling factor and calipers. In some cases, I've worked off broadside
photos with only 1 know dimension. It can be done without builder's
in-process drawings, just not as quickly.



Attached is a photo of the "PS-0" end (or whatever you want to call it) that
TC boxcars used. These were built in 1941 and rebuilt in 1958 with diagonal
panel roofs and door opening corner braces. Doors and ends are
as-delivered.



Jim King

Smoky Mountain Model Works, Inc.

Ph. (828) 777-5619

<www.smokymountainmodelworks.com>


Re: Sunshine at Timoniun

devansprr
 

The Lofton's made it and were doing brisk business as of Noon Saturday!

Dave Evans

--- In STMFC@..., "James F. Brewer" <jfbrewer@...> wrote:



The weather here "should" be ok; we are supposed to get some sleet/freezing rain after midnight, which will turn to rain by daybreak; any further precip on Saturday should be rain; Sunday will by clear and sunny.



Jim Brewer

Glenwood, MD


----- Original Message -----
From: "charles slater" <atsfcondr42@...>
To: "STMFC List" <stmfc@...>
Sent: Friday, February 4, 2011 4:15:34 PM
Subject: [STMFC] Sunshine at Timoniun

 





I just talked to Martin Lofton and he is about 2-3 hours from Timonium and hoping to be there tonight to set up. So far the weather has not affected them.
Charlie Slater








Re: parts is parts (was B&O wagontop)

Nolan Hinshaw
 

On Feb 4, 2011, at 10:52 AM, lifeisgood_u2 wrote:

Of course better yet would be to use a non-ferrous material in the first place.

Like Tungsten -- denser and easier to obtain than depleted Uranium.
--
Nolan Hinshaw, native Californian since 1944
"Every freight train has at least one NP box car"
the Brock Corollary to the GN hypothesis


Re: Athearn Blue Box Gondola

Andy Harman
 

At 01:00 PM 2/5/2011 -0500, you wrote:
When we used to ask, "why not prototype for -foot gondola and the 50-foot
flat" our local hobby Shop owner (Dan at the Little Depot in Anaheim, CA)
said, "because they fit in the box" referring to the original shot Blue
Box. He said that Irv spent more on box than the plastic inside it. Perhaps a
little over simplistic but it makes sense.
Except they didn't fit in the box. The 50' box cars and the 50' gondola had to be jammed into the box diagonally which put a lot of pressure on the couplers. Some of the longer cars had the box extended and it still wasn't long enough to accommodate the finished model.

Nowadays I keep two-piece boxes like Branchline's and use them for parts and project trays. I pretty much throw away all sleeve and clamshell boxes.

Andy


Re: PS-0 end drawings needed

Bill Welch
 

There are photos of C&EI headend cars in one of RP CYC's that look like 1937 design cars with these ends. These were riveted.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., cepropst@... wrote:

There is also a revited car with those ends at Oelwein.
Clark Propst


--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@> wrote:

There is or was a CGW PS-0 at the museum in Boone, Iowa.
Gene Green


Re: Athearn Blue Box Gondola

soolinehistory <destorzek@...>
 

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Greg Martin wrote:
When we used to ask, "why not prototype for -foot gondola and the
50-foot flat" our local hobby Shop owner (Dan at the Little Depot in
Anaheim, CA) said, "because they fit in the box" referring to the
original shot Blue Box. Perhaps a little over simplistic but it
makes sense.
It may appear to make sense but there are indications it's just
a legend.

Tony Thompson
I would suspect it was to fit the bodies into an existing four slide mold base, thus avoiding the expense of a new mold base. I've been told that the Details West line of car kits were also built to fit this mold base, and if you'll recall, the DW double plug door boxcar was also too short.

Dennis


Re: Athearn Blue Box Gondola

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Greg Martin wrote:
When we used to ask, "why not prototype for -foot gondola and the 50-foot flat" our local hobby Shop owner (Dan at the Little Depot in Anaheim, CA) said, "because they fit in the box" referring to the original shot Blue Box. Perhaps a little over simplistic but it makes sense.
It may appear to make sense but there are indications it's just a legend.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Duryea underframe modelling...

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

Bruce--

You credit me with knowing a lot more about these cars and underframes than I actually do! I don't know much about Duryea underframes, and I've still a lot to learn about B&O hoppers.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "bdg1210" <Bruce_Griffin@...> wrote:


Bob or Steve,

I think many folks would appreciate seeing how to model this and would appreciate an article on how to get it close. You have the detailed knowledge and we would love to learn more about it. While I can't offer money, I can offer the chance to make your unique knowledge available to the rest of us in the B&O Modeler. Please help us all out and write it down and I will share it.

Regards,
Bruce Griffin
Summerfield,NC


--- In STMFC@..., "rwitt_2000" <rwitt_2000@> wrote:


Steve Lucas wrote:

Now that I've gained another bashing project with a Proto B&O hopper,
thoughts on modelling its Duryea underframe? I found this online--

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/duryeacbc.html

Was the Duryea underframe a "kit", or was it a product designed
specifically for each type of car?
Steve,

You like to look for trouble :-).

I am not sure, but I assume the parts for the Duryea underframes were
supplied to the car builder by the O.C. Duryea Company. Yes, each
application had differences. Some had to do with the internal springs
and length of travel, etc. Much of this is invisible on the prototype or
the model. Comparing the parts drawings over several different B&O car
types one can see many parts were common between boxcars, gondolas and
hoppers. The B&O drawings have a note of "where used" and they list all
the cars by B&O class that used a specific part.

If you plan to do the AAR offset side twin hopper there are drawings
published in the C.B. Cyc. and Train Shed reprints of a Duryea
underframe applied to these cars. A careful review of the drawing
reveals many differences between the Duryea underframe and the standard
AAR one. Much is hidden on the hopper, but a very visible difference is
the shape of the center sill cover. On the Duryea it is "domed". Richard
H. converted a Stewart/Bowser triple in an old RMJ arcticle and
describes adding some details to simulate the Duryea underframe. As Tim
O'Connor stated in an earlier post one of the main features is the
extension of the draft gear beyond the end sill. Modeling Duryea
underframes will placed the coupled distance between cars at a greater
distance than that of the standard AAR underframe.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: PS-0 end drawings needed

Clark Propst
 

There is also a revited car with those ends at Oelwein.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "Gene" <bierglaeser@...> wrote:

There is or was a CGW PS-0 at the museum in Boone, Iowa.
Gene Green


Re: PS-0 end drawings needed

Gene <bierglaeser@...>
 

There is or was a CGW PS-0 at the museum in Boone, Iowa.
Gene Green


Re: Brancbline 40' straight panelboxcar roof part No.140002

O Fenton Wells
 

Thanks I'll check it out.

On Sat, Feb 5, 2011 at 4:44 AM, <Barrybennetttoo@...> wrote:



I've just bought some from Walthers. I don't if they have any left.

Barry Bennett
Coventry, England.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


new decals this week

jerryglow2
 

New this week is a set for an Illinois Central reefer
<http://home.comcast.net/%7Ejerryglow/samples/IC_reefer.jpg>. In HO, the
Intermountain kit may be modified, or Stan Rydarowicz
<http://www.sunshinekits.com/stanpage.html> has a modified kit with
replacement sides. The UP boxcar and flatcar sets announced last week
may be printed in yellow or white or a combination - just ask.
--
Jerry Glow
The Villages FL
http://home.comcast.net/~jerryglow/decals.html


Re: Athearn Blue Box Gondola

Greg Martin
 

When we used to ask, "why not prototype for -foot gondola and the 50-foot
flat" our local hobby Shop owner (Dan at the Little Depot in Anaheim, CA)
said, "because they fit in the box" referring to the original shot Blue
Box. He said that Irv spent more on box than the plastic inside it. Perhaps a
little over simplistic but it makes sense.

Greg




Bob Witt responds:




Anthony Thompson wrote:

As with their "50-foot" flat car, they seem to have shortened a real car
to handle shorter curves. Or something. Thus both the gon and flat can be
stretched to 53' 6" (e.g. using another kit) and come much closer to
several prototypes. But out of the box, no.

Tony,

FWIW, shorter curves probably was not the reason because in the same
time period Revell made both a flat car and a gondola very close to the
correct prototype lengths of 53'-6" and 52'-6", respectively. These
cars, I believe, could negotiate the 15" curves of Atlas snap track.
Until better models arrived the old Revell/Con-Cor gondola was all we
had for kit-bashing gons.

Bob Witt





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Duryea underframe modelling...

bdg1210 <Bruce_Griffin@...>
 

Bob or Steve,

I think many folks would appreciate seeing how to model this and would appreciate an article on how to get it close. You have the detailed knowledge and we would love to learn more about it. While I can't offer money, I can offer the chance to make your unique knowledge available to the rest of us in the B&O Modeler. Please help us all out and write it down and I will share it.

Regards,
Bruce Griffin
Summerfield,NC

--- In STMFC@..., "rwitt_2000" <rwitt_2000@...> wrote:


Steve Lucas wrote:

Now that I've gained another bashing project with a Proto B&O hopper,
thoughts on modelling its Duryea underframe? I found this online--

http://www.steamfreightcars.com/prototype/frtcars/duryeacbc.html

Was the Duryea underframe a "kit", or was it a product designed
specifically for each type of car?
Steve,

You like to look for trouble :-).

I am not sure, but I assume the parts for the Duryea underframes were
supplied to the car builder by the O.C. Duryea Company. Yes, each
application had differences. Some had to do with the internal springs
and length of travel, etc. Much of this is invisible on the prototype or
the model. Comparing the parts drawings over several different B&O car
types one can see many parts were common between boxcars, gondolas and
hoppers. The B&O drawings have a note of "where used" and they list all
the cars by B&O class that used a specific part.

If you plan to do the AAR offset side twin hopper there are drawings
published in the C.B. Cyc. and Train Shed reprints of a Duryea
underframe applied to these cars. A careful review of the drawing
reveals many differences between the Duryea underframe and the standard
AAR one. Much is hidden on the hopper, but a very visible difference is
the shape of the center sill cover. On the Duryea it is "domed". Richard
H. converted a Stewart/Bowser triple in an old RMJ arcticle and
describes adding some details to simulate the Duryea underframe. As Tim
O'Connor stated in an earlier post one of the main features is the
extension of the draft gear beyond the end sill. Modeling Duryea
underframes will placed the coupled distance between cars at a greater
distance than that of the standard AAR underframe.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

Bob Witt


Re: Brancbline 40' straight panelboxcar roof part No.140002

Barrybennetttoo@...
 

I've just bought some from Walthers. I don't if they have any left.

Barry Bennett
Coventry, England.

99861 - 99880 of 197002