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Reefer Photo
Mark
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Re: LRX Image...
A. Premo <armprem2@...>
There was a DL&W reefer 7030 on train # 9 in Alburgh,Vt on 12/8/1950.Armand Premo
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----- Original Message -----
From: Charles R Yungkurth To: STMFC@... Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2011 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: LRX Image... I am positive I have seen a drawing of a LRX car with the two center truss rods in a publication such as Railway Mech Engr, Railway Gazette, etc. But have never been able to find it again. There was a cross section that showed a casting at the center beam where the roads supported the center beam. This was a complete drawing, not an article about modifying the cars. Keeping searching for it. The mystery continues! For what it is worth, I was a pretty consistent Lackawanna "train watcher" from about 1938 through WWII and don't ever recall seeing LRX or DL&W refrigerators in trains except those repainted red and ice in the DL&W's huge ice business. I think the road's need for refrigerator cars ended aroung 1940. But I do remember the yellow reefer that waas displayed at the Scranton depot along with the 4-6-4, a covered happer, and a caboose before going to the "39 World's Fair. Chuck Yungkurth Chuck Y Boulder Co ________________________________ From: MDelvec952 <MDelvec952@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 8:55:58 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: LRX Image... Lackawanna's big reefers from ACF were distinctive for having the straight center sill, versus the fishbelly center sill common on ACF reefers of that era. I have some photos of these in service in the 1930s, '40s and '50s. All of the 1930s in-service photos show cars with no truss rods, including the car numbered LRX 1939 for display at the New York World's Fair and the LRX 7268 from the 1940 World's Fair (7268 is notable as the only one with an Ajax hand brake). Only photos from the 1950s show cars with truss rods. The cars with truss rods all have KV (DL&W's Keyser Valley Shops near Scranton) shop marks, which is consistent with local railroaders who claimed that Keyser Valley added the truss rods. I have DL&W general arrangement drawings for these cars dated 1944 and 1952, and neither mentions the truss rods though one of the photos is dated 1951. The three cars pictured during the 1950s were empty when the photo was taken, though one car is stenciled to be returned to the Nickel Plate Road at Cleveland. That car has a reweigh date KV 4-40, same as the World's Fair car. Other reweigh dates are earlier than the 1950s. The addition of truss rods should require the car to be reweighed, but it's odd that the 1944 or 1952 books don't mention the truss rods though they mention so many other less significant components, modifications, etc. If a concrete reason for the addition off truss rods surfaces, I'd love to hear it. The downgrading of reefers on the DL&W was to use them in ice service ,which is more dense than produce. But I have seen writings and waybills that discuss bananas and potatoes as common lading, the latter moved in the winter with heater pots in the ice bunkers. It's been my hope to model one or two one day. Mike Del Vecchio In a message dated 02/14/11 20:56:43 Eastern Standard Time, rhendrickson@... writes: Aha! The plot thickens! DL&W 7000 is yet another reefer design, also (obviously) by AC&F but with a straight rolled steel center sill. However, that underframe (especially on a reefer, typically lightly loaded by comparison to other freight cars) would never have needed truss rods to support it. We may get some explanation of this confusion from Roger Hinman, who really is an expert. Richard Hendrickson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] __________________________________________________________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Internal Virus Database is out of date. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.449 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2804 - Release Date: 04/11/10 06:32:00 ____________________________________________________________ $65/Hr Job - 25 Openings Part-Time job ($20-$65/hr). Requirements: Home Internet Access http://thirdpartyoffers.netzero.net/TGL3241/4d5afb6b715bd3d092ast02vuc
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Re: Latest Im release of their Wood-Sheathed reefer
Bill Welch
I think all of the Sunshine WFE kits are well done. Their truss rod cars were that companies signature car until the post WWII era. In terms of numbers the 12' 1" followed by the 12' 7" height cars were the most dominant after the TR cars.
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Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
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Re: B&O Freight Car Brown
gettheredesigns <rick@...>
Hi Tony, notice that I did not state that ferrous oxide is a paint pigment, simply that it is black, and therefore is not the pigment used to make reddish-brown paint. It IS used as a pigment for other purposes. I spent a great deal of time in college attempting to identify various oxides and their hydrates through a petrographic microscope, and it is a complex and fascinating subject.
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Every morning I walk my dog through an area that was once a railyard serving an iron mine, and I never cease to be amazed by the variety of colors in the ore that fell off the FREIGHT CARS ;) I appreciate all the experts that inhabit this forum. Peace, Rick Aylsworth
--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:
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Re: Peacock hand brake... (UNCLASSIFIED)
Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
I'm referrring to the handbrake with the long "perforated pump brake handle". This handbrake was also fitted to the blind end of some passenger cars built post-WWII.
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Steve Lucas.
--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:
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Re: square brake staffs (was SP F-70-7 FLAT CARS)
brianleppert@att.net
--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:
Southern Pacific B-50-13 & 14 40' single sheathed boxcars had square brake staffs. Brian Leppert Carson City, NV
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Re: Latest Im release of their Wood-Sheathed reefer
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
To change the subject slightly, Bill, what WFEX model DO you recommend?
Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: Latest Im release of their Wood-Sheathed reefer
Bill Welch
Thanks Steve!
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WFEX 65359 represents one of the rebuilds outside the 70000 number series, adding to the confusion. I have built this car using a Sunshine kit. Note the drop grab above the ladder and all of the busy stuff along the side sill. Very cool IMO. FGE 55572 is one of my all-time favorite photos and I plan to build this car as well. Along with WFEX 72077, these 3 cars feature the 6-inch side sill. Under the pretense of shameless self-promotion I will be doing my 2-Part presentation "The 40-Foot Freight Refrigerator Cars of the FGE/WFE/BRE Fleet: 1920-1955" on Friday & Saturday at the Savannah RPM meet March 25-26. Bill Welch
--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Hoxie" <stevehprr@...> wrote:
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Re: LRX Image...
drgwrail
I am positive I have seen a drawing of a LRX car with the two center truss rods
in a publication such as Railway Mech Engr, Railway Gazette, etc. But have never been able to find it again. There was a cross section that showed a casting at the center beam where the roads supported the center beam. This was a complete drawing, not an article about modifying the cars. Keeping searching for it. The mystery continues! For what it is worth, I was a pretty consistent Lackawanna "train watcher" from about 1938 through WWII and don't ever recall seeing LRX or DL&W refrigerators in trains except those repainted red and ice in the DL&W's huge ice business. I think the road's need for refrigerator cars ended aroung 1940. But I do remember the yellow reefer that waas displayed at the Scranton depot along with the 4-6-4, a covered happer, and a caboose before going to the "39 World's Fair. Chuck Yungkurth Chuck Y Boulder Co ________________________________ From: MDelvec952 <MDelvec952@...> To: STMFC@... Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 8:55:58 PM Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: LRX Image... Lackawanna's big reefers from ACF were distinctive for having the straight center sill, versus the fishbelly center sill common on ACF reefers of that era. I have some photos of these in service in the 1930s, '40s and '50s. All of the 1930s in-service photos show cars with no truss rods, including the car numbered LRX 1939 for display at the New York World's Fair and the LRX 7268 from the 1940 World's Fair (7268 is notable as the only one with an Ajax hand brake). Only photos from the 1950s show cars with truss rods. The cars with truss rods all have KV (DL&W's Keyser Valley Shops near Scranton) shop marks, which is consistent with local railroaders who claimed that Keyser Valley added the truss rods. I have DL&W general arrangement drawings for these cars dated 1944 and 1952, and neither mentions the truss rods though one of the photos is dated 1951. The three cars pictured during the 1950s were empty when the photo was taken, though one car is stenciled to be returned to the Nickel Plate Road at Cleveland. That car has a reweigh date KV 4-40, same as the World's Fair car. Other reweigh dates are earlier than the 1950s. The addition of truss rods should require the car to be reweighed, but it's odd that the 1944 or 1952 books don't mention the truss rods though they mention so many other less significant components, modifications, etc. If a concrete reason for the addition off truss rods surfaces, I'd love to hear it. The downgrading of reefers on the DL&W was to use them in ice service ,which is more dense than produce. But I have seen writings and waybills that discuss bananas and potatoes as common lading, the latter moved in the winter with heater pots in the ice bunkers. It's been my hope to model one or two one day. Mike Del Vecchio In a message dated 02/14/11 20:56:43 Eastern Standard Time, rhendrickson@... writes: Aha! The plot thickens! DL&W 7000 is yet another reefer design, also (obviously) by AC&F but with a straight rolled steel center sill. However, that underframe (especially on a reefer, typically lightly loaded by comparison to other freight cars) would never have needed truss rods to support it. We may get some explanation of this confusion from Roger Hinman, who really is an expert. Richard Hendrickson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ____________________________________________________________________________________ Get your own web address. Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/domains/?p=BESTDEAL
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Re: Latest Im release of their Wood-Sheathed reefer
pennsylvania1954
Bill's article is in the Feb 2005 issue of RMJ. It is available online, starting here:
http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/70/5074/february-2005-page-40 Steve Hoxie Pensacola FL --- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote: 1
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Latest Im release of their Wood-Sheathed reefer
Bill Welch
Two friends have asked me to comment to comment on the accuracy of
the paint and stenciling schemes for the latest release of InterMountain's wood sheathed FGE/WFE reefer post war rebuild models. To review, this kit represents cars rebuilt by FGE and WFE beginning in 1948 from cars they originally built beginning in 1926 to a new taller car design with an 8-inch side sill. Earlier cars built beginning in 1922 and retro-fitted with 6-inch side sill were also rebuilt beginning in 1922. The IM car models those rebuilds in the FGEX 57000-58999 and WFEX 71000-71034, 72000-72054, 72055-72179, 73000-73044, 73045-73084, 73900-73999 groups. Basically none of the models in the latest IM release is accurate for WFE or FGE. BRE owned no such cars. I strongly urge people not to try to model these cars without photographs. "Bob's," Jay Williams, and "Mainline" (Mike Gruber) all have good photos of these cars, as did my article in the late lamented RMJ, circa 2005. Sunshine also offers a kit of these same rebuilds with a much superior roof. The advantage of this kit is that it easier to cut the side sill off and replace it with plastic strip to recreate the cars w/the 6-inch side sills. Visually these are more interesting cars with 8-inch plates applied in various places. Although dated, information for the wood-sheathed on the special issues of PRR, B&O, and ACL/SAL online modeling magazines is still accurate and valid. I am working w/Ben Hom to update with Steel Cars and make corrections to the earlier document. None of the mistakes would effect modeling. I am going to call Martin today and bug him about doing decals to create one of the groups of Double Deck cars. Bill Welch 2225 Nursery Road; #20-104 Clearwater, FL 33764-7622 727.470.9930 fgexbill@...
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Re: Congratulations
Clark Propst
They will. In their own sweet time.
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I just received a free Tony Koester book from Kalmbach because they used a picture of mine. Had to fill out paper work before they'd send it. Clark propst
--- In STMFC@..., Rick Schoch <tuggernaut@...> wrote:
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Re: Congratulations
Rick Schoch <tuggernaut@...>
Jeez...as the author, you'd think they'd give you a free copy...
Regards, Rick Schoch Feb 14, 2011 11:45:24 PM, STMFC@... wrote: Thanks Dave. I'll have to see about buying a copy. Clark Propst --- In STMFC@..., "daveinyuma" wrote:
------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links
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Re: Congratulations
Clark Propst
Thanks Dave. I'll have to see about buying a copy.
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Clark Propst
--- In STMFC@..., "daveinyuma" <drdavecampbell@...> wrote:
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Re: LRX Image...
MDelvec952
Lackawanna's big reefers from ACF were distinctive for having the straight center sill, versus the fishbelly center sill common on ACF reefers of that era.
toggle quoted messageShow quoted text
I have some photos of these in service in the 1930s, '40s and '50s. All of the 1930s in-service photos show cars with no truss rods, including the car numbered LRX 1939 for display at the New York World's Fair and the LRX 7268 from the 1940 World's Fair (7268 is notable as the only one with an Ajax hand brake). Only photos from the 1950s show cars with truss rods. The cars with truss rods all have KV (DL&W's Keyser Valley Shops near Scranton) shop marks, which is consistent with local railroaders who claimed that Keyser Valley added the truss rods. I have DL&W general arrangement drawings for these cars dated 1944 and 1952, and neither mentions the truss rods though one of the photos is dated 1951. The three cars pictured during the 1950s were empty when the photo was taken, though one car is stenciled to be returned to the Nickel Plate Road at Cleveland. That car has a reweigh date KV 4-40, same as the World's Fair car. Other reweigh dates are earlier than the 1950s. The addition of truss rods should require the car to be reweighed, but it's odd that the 1944 or 1952 books don't mention the truss rods though they mention so many other less significant components, modifications, etc. If a concrete reason for the addition off truss rods surfaces, I'd love to hear it. The downgrading of reefers on the DL&W was to use them in ice service ,which is more dense than produce. But I have seen writings and waybills that discuss bananas and potatoes as common lading, the latter moved in the winter with heater pots in the ice bunkers. It's been my hope to model one or two one day. Mike Del Vecchio
In a message dated 02/14/11 20:56:43 Eastern Standard Time, rhendrickson@... writes:
Aha! The plot thickens! DL&W 7000 is yet another reefer design, also (obviously) by AC&F but with a straight rolled steel center sill. However, that underframe (especially on a reefer, typically lightly loaded by comparison to other freight cars) would never have needed truss rods to support it. We may get some explanation of this confusion from Roger Hinman, who really is an expert. Richard Hendrickson
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Re: LRX Image...
Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Exactly. The two truss rods were directly under, or just on either side of, the center sill. There were no other truss rods, and theBy the time of the 1932 ARA design, it had become evident that "side sills" played little role in structural stiffness or strength of a steel car, and they became vestigial. Center sills likewise became much more modest sections, mainly because of the large contribution of the side sheets. But even in a 1920s car without steel sheathing, deep fishbellies like the USRA underframe were overdesigned, as later analysis and tests showed. The truss rods may or may not have been really needed in cars like the LRX ones we're talking about, but no doubt they gave a sensation of comfort to old-school mechanical designers. <g> Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA 2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com (510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@... Publishers of books on railroad history
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Re: LRX Image...
Richard Hendrickson
On Feb 14, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:
No you're not, Tim. that is correct.I have several photos, including builder's shots, of cars withI'm confused Richard -- I thought that ALL truss rod equipped Exactly. The two truss rods were directly under, or just on either side of, the center sill. There were no other truss rods, and the side sills, though concealed, were apparently conventional steel angles or channels. Richard Hendrickson
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Re: LRX Image...
Richard Hendrickson
On Feb 14, 2011, at 2:20 PM, Matthew wrote:
Richard Hendrickson wrote:Aha! The plot thickens! DL&W 7000 is yet another reefer design,Matt, I lay no claim to be an expert on the DL&W, even less on theirRichard, also (obviously) by AC&F but with a straight rolled steel center sill. However, that underframe (especially on a reefer, typically lightly loaded by comparison to other freight cars) would never have needed truss rods to support it. We may get some explanation of this confusion from Roger Hinman, who really is an expert. Richard Hendrickson
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Re: Southern #34364
Jason Greene
Just a little information about the picture and Sloss.
This particular cars could be carrying the pig to Cincinnati to steel mills there, Lenoir for company use at the foundry, Charleston or Mobile for export, or any number of foundries on the east coast. Sou/AGS and L&N were Sloss’ main company that moved their pig. Central of Georgia carried a good bit to Savannah for export as well. Most of Sloss’ pig was exported to Europe during this time. WWI changed that. Why would it be spotted to be loaded at a Steel Mill in B’ham? Simple, they would load Pig Iron into anything that would hold it. Lots of pictures of boxcars in this era being loaded in B’ham. Also, it was not a steel mill. Sloss City Furnace never produced steel, just pig iron. It was shipped to other mills and furnaces to be made into final product. U.S.S. Fairfield and Ensley, and Republic, I believe were the only B’ham Blast Furnaces to produce Steel successfully. Sloss, Woodward, Thomas, Alice were all just Pig Iron. Sloss did infact have their own railroad but not this early. They interchanged with the Southern, AGS, CG, L&N and Seaboard right there at the furnace. The Georgia Pacific and Sloss shared common owners into the early Southern years. I am not sure when Southern sold their stock in Sloss. The GP help a small percentage of Sloss stock. Joseph Bryan was the President of both Sloss and GP for a while. Jason Greene [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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Re: Bohn Siphon Refrigeration System for Refrigerator Cars
mopac1 <mopac1@...>
A belated Thank You to all who responded on my request for this information.
Gene Semon
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