Date   

Re: B&O Freight Car Brown

gettheredesigns <rick@...>
 

Hi Tony, notice that I did not state that ferrous oxide is a paint pigment, simply that it is black, and therefore is not the pigment used to make reddish-brown paint. It IS used as a pigment for other purposes. I spent a great deal of time in college attempting to identify various oxides and their hydrates through a petrographic microscope, and it is a complex and fascinating subject.

Every morning I walk my dog through an area that was once a railyard serving an iron mine, and I never cease to be amazed by the variety of colors in the ore that fell off the FREIGHT CARS ;)

I appreciate all the experts that inhabit this forum.

Peace, Rick Aylsworth

--- In STMFC@..., Anthony Thompson <thompson@...> wrote:

Rick Aylsworth wrote:
Tiny nit, Tony and Jim. Ferrous oxide is black (Fe+2). Ferric oxide
(Fe+3) is the red-brown pigment, and also rust, with Tony's caveats.
Different oxidation state = different crystalline structure =
different color.
True, I mistyped, reversing ferrous vs. ferric. But black
ferrous oxide isn't a paint pigment. What a paint guy might call
ferric oxide probably is a rather more complex material, not the
chemically and structurally pure laboratory compound, nor a pure
mineral.
Natural rust is a mixture of iron oxides, starting with the
first film which is yellowish, followed by the familiar orange-red
color (lots of ferric oxide), then darkening more and more into a
really dark brown. The various iron compounds responsible for all this
(relevant to freight car weathering, especially unpainted interiors of
gondolas and hoppers) are complex and far beyond the scope of this
list. But the color sequence is entirely relevant.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Peacock hand brake... (UNCLASSIFIED)

Steve Lucas <stevelucas3@...>
 

I'm referrring to the handbrake with the long "perforated pump brake handle". This handbrake was also fitted to the blind end of some passenger cars built post-WWII.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@..., "Gatwood, Elden SAW" <elden.j.gatwood@...> wrote:

Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Are you guys talking about the freight car brake with (circular) handbrake
wheel, or the lever brake with the triangular perforated pump brake handle?

Elden Gatwood


-----Original Message-----
From: STMFC@... [mailto:STMFC@...] On Behalf Of Steve
Lucas
Sent: Monday, February 14, 2011 2:31 PM
To: STMFC@...
Subject: [STMFC] Re: Peacock hand brake...



I'm thinking that the Peacock ratchet handbrake looked somewhat like a
peacock? A small body holding the gearing, and an about two-foot long brake
lever attached to it. This brake is worked by ratcheting the lever
vertically.

I recall that this handbrake was standard on many GM GP-series locomotives.

Steve Lucas.

--- In STMFC@... <mailto:STMFC%40yahoogroups.com> , "Gene"
<bierglaeser@> wrote:

The name Peacock came to the National Brake Co. (now Ellcan-National) with
the Champion brake. I have never been able to find the origin of the use of
Peacock in connection with hand brakes. I thought it might have been an
inventor's name but that doesn't seem to be the case. Does anyone out there
in cyberspace know the answer?

BTW, National put the Champion-Peacock 1148 (trade name Micro-Matic) into a
different housing so this particular hand brake - in terms of appearance - is
pretty much to the period 1937 to 1953.

Gene Green




Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE


Re: square brake staffs (was SP F-70-7 FLAT CARS)

brianleppert@att.net
 

--- In STMFC@..., "soolinehistory" <destorzek@...> wrote:


Should have asked this earlier... What boxcars used square brake staffs? All I've ever seen were round stock.

Dennis

Southern Pacific B-50-13 & 14 40' single sheathed boxcars had square brake staffs.

Brian Leppert
Carson City, NV


Re: Latest Im release of their Wood-Sheathed reefer

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

To change the subject slightly, Bill, what WFEX model DO you recommend?

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Latest Im release of their Wood-Sheathed reefer

Bill Welch
 

Thanks Steve!

WFEX 65359 represents one of the rebuilds outside the 70000 number series, adding to the confusion. I have built this car using a Sunshine kit. Note the drop grab above the ladder and all of the busy stuff along the side sill. Very cool IMO.

FGE 55572 is one of my all-time favorite photos and I plan to build this car as well. Along with WFEX 72077, these 3 cars feature the 6-inch side sill.

Under the pretense of shameless self-promotion I will be doing my 2-Part presentation "The 40-Foot Freight Refrigerator Cars of the FGE/WFE/BRE Fleet: 1920-1955" on Friday & Saturday at the Savannah RPM meet March 25-26.

Bill Welch

--- In STMFC@..., "Steve Hoxie" <stevehprr@...> wrote:

Bill's article is in the Feb 2005 issue of RMJ. It is available online, starting here:

http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/70/5074/february-2005-page-40

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@> wrote:

Two friends have asked me to comment to comment on the accuracy of
the paint and stenciling schemes for the latest release of
InterMountain's wood sheathed FGE/WFE reefer post war rebuild models.
To review, this kit represents cars rebuilt by FGE and WFE beginning
in 1948 from cars they originally built beginning in 1926 to a new
taller car design with an 8-inch side sill. Earlier cars built
beginning in 1922 and retro-fitted with 6-inch side sill were also
rebuilt beginning in 1922. The IM car models those rebuilds in the
FGEX 57000-58999 and WFEX 71000-71034, 72000-72054, 72055-72179,
73000-73044, 73045-73084, 73900-73999 groups.

Basically none of the models in the latest IM release is accurate for
WFE or FGE. BRE owned no such cars.

I strongly urge people not to try to model these cars without
photographs. "Bob's," Jay Williams, and "Mainline" (Mike Gruber) all
have good photos of these cars, as did my article in the late
lamented RMJ, circa 2005.

Sunshine also offers a kit of these same rebuilds with a much
superior roof. The advantage of this kit is that it easier to cut the
side sill off and replace it with plastic strip to recreate the cars
w/the 6-inch side sills. Visually these are more interesting cars
with 8-inch plates applied in various places.

Although dated, information for the wood-sheathed on the special
issues of PRR, B&O, and ACL/SAL online modeling magazines is still
accurate and valid. I am working w/Ben Hom to update with Steel Cars
and make corrections to the earlier document. None of the mistakes
would effect modeling.

I am going to call Martin today and bug him about doing decals to
create one of the groups of Double Deck cars.

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@
1


Re: LRX Image...

drgwrail
 

I am positive I have seen a drawing of a LRX car with the two center truss rods
in a publication such as Railway Mech Engr, Railway Gazette, etc.  But have
never been able to find it again.  There was a cross

section that showed a casting at the center beam where the roads supported the
center beam.

This was a complete drawing, not an article about modifying the cars. Keeping
searching for it. The mystery continues!

For what it is worth, I was a pretty consistent Lackawanna "train watcher" from
about 1938 through WWII and don't ever recall seeing LRX or DL&W
refrigerators in trains except those repainted red and ice in the DL&W's huge
ice business. I think the road's need for refrigerator cars ended aroung 1940. 
But I do remember the yellow reefer that waas displayed at the Scranton depot
along with the 4-6-4, a covered happer, and a caboose before going to the "39
World's Fair.

Chuck Yungkurth


Chuck Y
Boulder Co




________________________________
From: MDelvec952 <MDelvec952@...>
To: STMFC@...
Sent: Mon, February 14, 2011 8:55:58 PM
Subject: Re: [STMFC] Re: LRX Image...

 

Lackawanna's big reefers from ACF were distinctive for having the straight
center sill, versus the fishbelly center sill common on ACF reefers of that era.

I have some photos of these in service in the 1930s, '40s and '50s. All of the
1930s in-service photos show cars with no truss rods, including the car numbered
LRX 1939 for display at the New York World's Fair and the LRX 7268 from the 1940
World's Fair (7268 is notable as the only one with an Ajax hand brake). Only
photos from the 1950s show cars with truss rods. The cars with truss rods all
have KV (DL&W's Keyser Valley Shops near Scranton) shop marks, which is
consistent with local railroaders who claimed that Keyser Valley added the truss
rods.

I have DL&W general arrangement drawings for these cars dated 1944 and 1952, and
neither mentions the truss rods though one of the photos is dated 1951.

The three cars pictured during the 1950s were empty when the photo was taken,
though one car is stenciled to be returned to the Nickel Plate Road at
Cleveland. That car has a reweigh date KV 4-40, same as the World's Fair car.
Other reweigh dates are earlier than the 1950s. The addition of truss rods
should require the car to be reweighed, but it's odd that the 1944 or 1952 books
don't mention the truss rods though they mention so many other less significant
components, modifications, etc.

If a concrete reason for the addition off truss rods surfaces, I'd love to hear
it. The downgrading of reefers on the DL&W was to use them in ice service ,which
is more dense than produce. But I have seen writings and waybills that discuss
bananas and potatoes as common lading, the latter moved in the winter with
heater pots in the ice bunkers. It's been my hope to model one or two one day.

Mike Del Vecchio

In a message dated 02/14/11 20:56:43 Eastern Standard Time,
rhendrickson@... writes:

Aha! The plot thickens! DL&W 7000 is yet another reefer design,
also (obviously) by AC&F but with a straight rolled steel center
sill. However, that underframe (especially on a reefer, typically
lightly loaded by comparison to other freight cars) would never have
needed truss rods to support it. We may get some explanation of this
confusion from Roger Hinman, who really is an expert.

Richard Hendrickson

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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Re: Latest Im release of their Wood-Sheathed reefer

pennsylvania1954
 

Bill's article is in the Feb 2005 issue of RMJ. It is available online, starting here:

http://www.trainlife.com/magazines/pages/70/5074/february-2005-page-40

Steve Hoxie
Pensacola FL

--- In STMFC@..., Bill Welch <fgexbill@...> wrote:

Two friends have asked me to comment to comment on the accuracy of
the paint and stenciling schemes for the latest release of
InterMountain's wood sheathed FGE/WFE reefer post war rebuild models.
To review, this kit represents cars rebuilt by FGE and WFE beginning
in 1948 from cars they originally built beginning in 1926 to a new
taller car design with an 8-inch side sill. Earlier cars built
beginning in 1922 and retro-fitted with 6-inch side sill were also
rebuilt beginning in 1922. The IM car models those rebuilds in the
FGEX 57000-58999 and WFEX 71000-71034, 72000-72054, 72055-72179,
73000-73044, 73045-73084, 73900-73999 groups.

Basically none of the models in the latest IM release is accurate for
WFE or FGE. BRE owned no such cars.

I strongly urge people not to try to model these cars without
photographs. "Bob's," Jay Williams, and "Mainline" (Mike Gruber) all
have good photos of these cars, as did my article in the late
lamented RMJ, circa 2005.

Sunshine also offers a kit of these same rebuilds with a much
superior roof. The advantage of this kit is that it easier to cut the
side sill off and replace it with plastic strip to recreate the cars
w/the 6-inch side sills. Visually these are more interesting cars
with 8-inch plates applied in various places.

Although dated, information for the wood-sheathed on the special
issues of PRR, B&O, and ACL/SAL online modeling magazines is still
accurate and valid. I am working w/Ben Hom to update with Steel Cars
and make corrections to the earlier document. None of the mistakes
would effect modeling.

I am going to call Martin today and bug him about doing decals to
create one of the groups of Double Deck cars.

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...
1


Latest Im release of their Wood-Sheathed reefer

Bill Welch
 

Two friends have asked me to comment to comment on the accuracy of
the paint and stenciling schemes for the latest release of
InterMountain's wood sheathed FGE/WFE reefer post war rebuild models.
To review, this kit represents cars rebuilt by FGE and WFE beginning
in 1948 from cars they originally built beginning in 1926 to a new
taller car design with an 8-inch side sill. Earlier cars built
beginning in 1922 and retro-fitted with 6-inch side sill were also
rebuilt beginning in 1922. The IM car models those rebuilds in the
FGEX 57000-58999 and WFEX 71000-71034, 72000-72054, 72055-72179,
73000-73044, 73045-73084, 73900-73999 groups.

Basically none of the models in the latest IM release is accurate for
WFE or FGE. BRE owned no such cars.

I strongly urge people not to try to model these cars without
photographs. "Bob's," Jay Williams, and "Mainline" (Mike Gruber) all
have good photos of these cars, as did my article in the late
lamented RMJ, circa 2005.

Sunshine also offers a kit of these same rebuilds with a much
superior roof. The advantage of this kit is that it easier to cut the
side sill off and replace it with plastic strip to recreate the cars
w/the 6-inch side sills. Visually these are more interesting cars
with 8-inch plates applied in various places.

Although dated, information for the wood-sheathed on the special
issues of PRR, B&O, and ACL/SAL online modeling magazines is still
accurate and valid. I am working w/Ben Hom to update with Steel Cars
and make corrections to the earlier document. None of the mistakes
would effect modeling.

I am going to call Martin today and bug him about doing decals to
create one of the groups of Double Deck cars.

Bill Welch
2225 Nursery Road; #20-104
Clearwater, FL 33764-7622
727.470.9930
fgexbill@...


Re: Congratulations

Clark Propst
 

They will. In their own sweet time.

I just received a free Tony Koester book from Kalmbach because they used a picture of mine. Had to fill out paper work before they'd send it.
Clark propst

--- In STMFC@..., Rick Schoch <tuggernaut@...> wrote:


Jeez...as the author, you'd think they'd give you a free copy...
Regards,
Rick Schoch


Re: Congratulations

Rick Schoch <tuggernaut@...>
 

Jeez...as the author, you'd think they'd give you a free copy...
Regards,
Rick Schoch

Feb 14, 2011 11:45:24 PM, STMFC@... wrote:

Thanks Dave. I'll have to see about buying a copy.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "daveinyuma" wrote:

Congrats to Clark Propst. VERY nice article about his technique for covered loads in this months RMC.

Dave Campbell



------------------------------------

Yahoo! Groups Links


Re: Congratulations

Clark Propst
 

Thanks Dave. I'll have to see about buying a copy.
Clark Propst

--- In STMFC@..., "daveinyuma" <drdavecampbell@...> wrote:

Congrats to Clark Propst. VERY nice article about his technique for covered loads in this months RMC.

Dave Campbell


Re: LRX Image...

MDelvec952
 

Lackawanna's big reefers from ACF were distinctive for having the straight center sill, versus the fishbelly center sill common on ACF reefers of that era.

I have some photos of these in service in the 1930s, '40s and '50s. All of the 1930s in-service photos show cars with no truss rods, including the car numbered LRX 1939 for display at the New York World's Fair and the LRX 7268 from the 1940 World's Fair (7268 is notable as the only one with an Ajax hand brake). Only photos from the 1950s show cars with truss rods. The cars with truss rods all have KV (DL&W's Keyser Valley Shops near Scranton) shop marks, which is consistent with local railroaders who claimed that Keyser Valley added the truss rods.

I have DL&W general arrangement drawings for these cars dated 1944 and 1952, and neither mentions the truss rods though one of the photos is dated 1951.

The three cars pictured during the 1950s were empty when the photo was taken, though one car is stenciled to be returned to the Nickel Plate Road at Cleveland. That car has a reweigh date KV 4-40, same as the World's Fair car. Other reweigh dates are earlier than the 1950s. The addition of truss rods should require the car to be reweighed, but it's odd that the 1944 or 1952 books don't mention the truss rods though they mention so many other less significant components, modifications, etc.

If a concrete reason for the addition off truss rods surfaces, I'd love to hear it. The downgrading of reefers on the DL&W was to use them in ice service ,which is more dense than produce. But I have seen writings and waybills that discuss bananas and potatoes as common lading, the latter moved in the winter with heater pots in the ice bunkers. It's been my hope to model one or two one day.

Mike Del Vecchio

In a message dated 02/14/11 20:56:43 Eastern Standard Time, rhendrickson@... writes:

Aha! The plot thickens! DL&W 7000 is yet another reefer design,
also (obviously) by AC&F but with a straight rolled steel center
sill. However, that underframe (especially on a reefer, typically
lightly loaded by comparison to other freight cars) would never have
needed truss rods to support it. We may get some explanation of this
confusion from Roger Hinman, who really is an expert.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: LRX Image...

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Richard Hendrickson wrote:
Exactly. The two truss rods were directly under, or just on either side of, the center sill. There were no other truss rods, and the
side sills, though concealed, were apparently conventional steel angles or channels.
By the time of the 1932 ARA design, it had become evident that "side sills" played little role in structural stiffness or strength of a steel car, and they became vestigial. Center sills likewise became much more modest sections, mainly because of the large contribution of the side sheets. But even in a 1920s car without steel sheathing, deep fishbellies like the USRA underframe were overdesigned, as later analysis and tests showed. The truss rods may or may not have been really needed in cars like the LRX ones we're talking about, but no doubt they gave a sensation of comfort to old-school mechanical designers. <g>

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: LRX Image...

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 14, 2011, at 2:40 PM, Tim O'Connor wrote:

I have several photos, including builder's shots, of cars with
this odd combination of steel center sills and truss rods.
Richard Hendrickson
I'm confused Richard -- I thought that ALL truss rod equipped
cars from the 1920's onwards had steel center sills, since wooden
center sills were banned from interchange.
No you're not, Tim. that is correct.

Or did you mean to say that the use of only TWO truss rods is
the unusual feature of the LRX/MDT cars?
Exactly. The two truss rods were directly under, or just on either
side of, the center sill. There were no other truss rods, and the
side sills, though concealed, were apparently conventional steel
angles or channels.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: LRX Image...

Richard Hendrickson
 

On Feb 14, 2011, at 2:20 PM, Matthew wrote:

Richard Hendrickson wrote:

Matt, I lay no claim to be an expert on the DL&W, even less on their
reefers, but I based that statement on the fragmentary information I
have plus the photographic evidence. I have an in-service photo of
DL&W reefer 7026 which, though no built date is visible, has all the
distinctive features of a mid-'20s AC&F wood sheathed reefer, among
them a 40-ton-USRA-style deep fishbelly center sill. I have another
photo of LRX 7218, and it is a car of quite different design with a
shallow straight steel center sill and a pair of truss rods under the
center sill which appear to be part of the original underframe
design, as the center sill would have had insufficient vertical
stiffness without them. Truss rods would, of course, have been
unnecessary on the AC&F cars. So the 7000-7299 series appears to
have consisted of cars of at least two different designs.
Richard,

I suppose that anything is possible in the composition of the LRX
fleet, especially after transferring the cars to MDT, but here's a
builder's shot of DL&W #7000, the flagship (which is in the public
domain).

http://mattforsyth.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/DLW-7000.jpg

It does not have a fishbelly center sill, but rather is straight,
and at least to my eye, looks to be of the exact same construction
of that of car #7218, that I posted before. If you look closely at
#7000 you, can also read the ACF builders and repack data.
Aha! The plot thickens! DL&W 7000 is yet another reefer design,
also (obviously) by AC&F but with a straight rolled steel center
sill. However, that underframe (especially on a reefer, typically
lightly loaded by comparison to other freight cars) would never have
needed truss rods to support it. We may get some explanation of this
confusion from Roger Hinman, who really is an expert.

Richard Hendrickson


Re: Southern #34364

Jason Greene
 

Just a little information about the picture and Sloss.

This particular cars could be carrying the pig to Cincinnati to steel mills there, Lenoir for company use at the foundry, Charleston or Mobile for export, or any number of foundries on the east coast. Sou/AGS and L&N were Sloss’ main company that moved their pig. Central of Georgia carried a good bit to Savannah for export as well. Most of Sloss’ pig was exported to Europe during this time. WWI changed that.

Why would it be spotted to be loaded at a Steel Mill in B’ham? Simple, they would load Pig Iron into anything that would hold it. Lots of pictures of boxcars in this era being loaded in B’ham. Also, it was not a steel mill. Sloss City Furnace never produced steel, just pig iron. It was shipped to other mills and furnaces to be made into final product. U.S.S. Fairfield and Ensley, and Republic, I believe were the only B’ham Blast Furnaces to produce Steel successfully. Sloss, Woodward, Thomas, Alice were all just Pig Iron.

Sloss did infact have their own railroad but not this early. They interchanged with the Southern, AGS, CG, L&N and Seaboard right there at the furnace. The Georgia Pacific and Sloss shared common owners into the early Southern years. I am not sure when Southern sold their stock in Sloss. The GP help a small percentage of Sloss stock. Joseph Bryan was the President of both Sloss and GP for a while.


Jason Greene

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: Bohn Siphon Refrigeration System for Refrigerator Cars

mopac1 <mopac1@...>
 

A belated Thank You to all who responded on my request for this information.



Gene Semon


Re: B&O Freight Car Brown, was Re: B&O Wagontop

O Fenton Wells
 

Gentlemen, It took awhile but the topic finally came down to my level.
Scalecoat Oxide Red and Floquil Zinc Chromate Primer. Got it. I have one
more Sunshine B&O wagontop to do. This will help.
Thanks
Regards,
Fenton

On Mon, Feb 14, 2011 at 3:39 PM, jim_mischke <jmischke@...> wrote:





Prior to 1945, B&O used a hand mixed paint with a ferrous oxide pigment on
its boxcars and cabooses, calling the recipe "Freight Car Brown".

Ferrous oxide is basically aged rust, a brown hue with a reddish overtone.

A genuine B&O paint chip for this color has not emerged, and color photos
of this paint in decent shape are rare. There is a newly painted wood M-15j
in a Jack Delano Kodachrome image at Galewood in Chicago at the Library of
Congress web site. I work from that.

This brown paint weathers quickly (rust paint on a rust prone steel boxcar)
into a myriad of effects. Sometimes it feels quixotic to search for the
original color when it doesn't last. Still, it would be good to start with
some documented B&O practice, however elusive.

I am looking at Tamika military model paints for inspiration, their
red-brown in particular, but will withhold judgement for the time being,
consider it research in progress.

In 1945, B&O began to specify bright red oxide commercial paints for new
cars and repairs. Ed Hawkin's ACF paint chip collection for B&O boxcar
orders shows that this transition was not uniform nor timely. Photo evidence
suggests some B&O car shops kept using freight car brown for years to paint
repaired cars.

The best paint for this B&O bright red oxide is Scalecoat Oxide Red #2002.
I will also use Floquil Zinc Chromate primer for variety.

--- In STMFC@..., O Fenton Wells <srrfan1401@...> wrote:

Gentlemen, any idea of which model paints, if any out of the bottle best
match this " Alkali Resisting Brown" ?

On Sat, Jan 29, 2011 at 9:32 AM, Ed Hawkins <hawk0621@...> wrote:




On Jan 28, 2011, at 10:07 PM, rwitt_2000 wrote:

I believe the post-WWII "13 States" cars should be painted oxide red
not
the earlier dark brown. Maybe Ed Hawkins can find the bill of
materials
to verify the paint specifications for the 500 class M-58a built by
AC&F
in 1947 for the B&O.
Bob,
You are correct. According to the paint sample for the M-58A 50' box
cars built by AC&F in 10-47, the cars received Pittsburgh Synthetic
paint (an oxide shade). So the switch from brown to oxide red
occurred sometime between 12-41, when the M-55A/B box cars that
received "Alkali Resisting Brown" were built, and 10-47. This oxide
shade was similar to that used by ACL, CNW, L&N, UP and others during
the postwar years.

A portion of the M-60 and M-61 50' box cars built in 1951 received an
even lighter-brighter shade of oxide red, much like the color Western
Maryland used during the 1950s, while the balance received the same
oxide shade as the M-58A cars.
Regards,
Ed Hawkins






--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



--
Fenton Wells
3047 Creek Run
Sanford NC 27332
919-499-5545
srrfan1401@...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


Re: B&O Freight Car Brown

Anthony Thompson <thompson@...>
 

Rick Aylsworth wrote:
Tiny nit, Tony and Jim. Ferrous oxide is black (Fe+2). Ferric oxide (Fe+3) is the red-brown pigment, and also rust, with Tony's caveats. Different oxidation state = different crystalline structure = different color.
True, I mistyped, reversing ferrous vs. ferric. But black ferrous oxide isn't a paint pigment. What a paint guy might call ferric oxide probably is a rather more complex material, not the chemically and structurally pure laboratory compound, nor a pure mineral.
Natural rust is a mixture of iron oxides, starting with the first film which is yellowish, followed by the familiar orange-red color (lots of ferric oxide), then darkening more and more into a really dark brown. The various iron compounds responsible for all this (relevant to freight car weathering, especially unpainted interiors of gondolas and hoppers) are complex and far beyond the scope of this list. But the color sequence is entirely relevant.

Tony Thompson Editor, Signature Press, Berkeley, CA
2906 Forest Ave., Berkeley, CA 94705 www.signaturepress.com
(510) 540-6538; fax, (510) 540-1937; e-mail, thompson@...
Publishers of books on railroad history


Re: Soo Line boxcar help

frograbbit602
 

Tim, Garth, Bob and Gene, thank you for end photo and information.
Lester Breuer

98061 - 98080 of 195461